Roe vs. Wade overturned

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

I noticed that in KY and TN, and perhaps soon WV, abortion is illegal now or else heavily regulated - I'm not sure which. In VA, it is not, nor has it ever been. So what I expect to see is a massive influx of panicky teenagers from those areas who never learned to keep their knees together (parents fault, I'm guessing) into VA to take advantage of the lack of abortion laws here. Because of that circumstance, I have no doubt that congress will soon make a reaching attempt to legalize abortion nationwide under the "interstate commerce clause" like they did with civil rights and are still trying to do to infringe the Second Amendment.

It may not be as bad as many think. This new lot of younguns are a little smarter than those that came before.

I have had patients tell me they had already taken Plan B, before they even reported their assault. On more than one occasion the assailant is the one that purchased the Plan B and gave it to the patient.

Plan B, STD prophylactic antibiotics, and HIV medications, are provided, free of charge, to all patient that request services, whether they are reporting the assault or not. If they don't want the police involved then we don't report to the police, unless the person is under the age of 18. If under the age of 18, it is a case of mandatory reporting, and the police will then have to get involved.

Some of these young guys are caring Plan B just in case they get lucky, the same way my generation carried condoms. A lot of our young folk are in touch with what is going on in the world, they are just not mature enough to understand the repercussions or the possible consequences they may have to deal with for a lifetime. They don't understand what it means to live in a world that is "me" centered, when everyone is the primary "me" in the situation.

[MalevolentTwitch]

So, against my better judgement, I logged back into FB for the first time since the election just to take a gander at the chaos. To my surprise I found quite a few of my more liberal and pro gun control "friends" screaming about tyranny and how the system needs to be overthrown, etc...

So just to stir the pot, I tagged them in post that simply asked, "Y'all rethinking your stance on the 2nd Amendment yet?"

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

I was on the road all day today. I finally caught up with the news at a restaurant around 1:30 this afternoon when I had lunch.

Now, I understand that the issue is abortion rights, etc., but this thread is about a supreme court decision. It seems to me that this was a one-two punch by the right via the supreme court - 2nd Amendment and then abortion.

How many gangstas in Chicago or New York ever worried about gun laws there? They'd go to a state that has looser gun laws to get their guns. The abortion decision is similar, if your state has stricter laws, then go to a liberal one to do your business.

Tit for tat but in your face extreme. More division, more lines drawn except these are some big lines their drawing with these back to back decisions.

Why now? Why this extreme?

[DuckforcoveR]

Would love to get an ... wait.... I thought this was the New York Mets chat group. 

Carry on.

[guohua]

For those that have not seen this,

It Is The Truth.

[DuckforcoveR]

For those that have not seen this,

It Is The Truth.

The truth is people don't like being told what to do by a government. Would've expected you to to defend and understand that...

[Ninurta]

I was on the road all day today. I finally caught up with the news at a restaurant around 1:30 this afternoon when I had lunch.

Now, I understand that the issue is abortion rights, etc., but this thread is about a supreme court decision. It seems to me that this was a one-two punch by the right via the supreme court - 2nd Amendment and then abortion.

How many gangstas in Chicago or New York ever worried about gun laws there? They'd go to a state that has looser gun laws to get their guns. The abortion decision is similar, if your state has stricter laws, then go to a liberal one to do your business.

Tit for tat but in your face extreme. More division, more lines drawn except these are some big lines their drawing with these back to back decisions.

Why now? Why this extreme?

I think it may be designed to wake the Right up to the danger the nation is in, and motivate them. Right wingers are generally pretty laid back and laissez-faire until you take a shot at one of their sacred cows. Then they swarm.

The left, in contrast, is never "hands-off", as their entire raison d'etre is to get up all in YOUR business and micromanage your life to THEIR satisfaction.

The left, of course, is and will use these decisions to whip their own troops into a fine frenzy, get them frothing and foaming over a "threat to Democracy", which neither of these decisions are - they are actually an affirmation of democracy, and a refutation of centralized tyranny. They remove the authority from the Central Planning Comittee Comrades, and place them both back in the hands of the people, where the Constitution says they rightfully belong. That, however, won't matter, because most apartchiks, Left or Right, only hear and believe what their fearless leaders tell them to hear and believe, so the spin is going to be strong on these ones going into election season.

And then there is the sudden and suspicious re-emergence of "Q" just in time to whip the opposing teams up into a frenzy just in time for that same election season...

.

[beez]

Fox link


I didn't realize this was coming so fast.
While I don't agree over all, I also think there should be limits, and there are other options, such as the morning after pill, that should be given out for free.

Going to be an interesting news day today.
Wonder if there will be riots?

And now its on the TV breaking news, and they are "highlighting" poor & black women.  
Sheesh.

I'm glad the entire debate. decision, will be returned to the voters and individual states instead of federally controlled.

[Snarl]

I think I read Louisiana, says the morning after pill is abortion, and illegal.  Other states wanting to charge anyone that helps someone driver to another state?

in the end ... the government will gain more control.

The abortion pill terminates an established pregnancy.  Big difference.

It IS a big difference.

Ending a life is an act of homicide. Dot at the end of that statement.

People have been charged with murder for killing an unborn baby.  Dot at the end of that statement.

I want to say I don't have a dog in this fight, but ... unfortunately ... all of us have a dog in this fight.

I personally believe government should only exist to support the rights of its citizens. Intellectually, I understand the need for established rules to 'govern' societies. When government starts making exceptions to rules ... this is the place where I choose to opt out. It's either homicide ... or homicide doesn't matter anymore. If someone can be charged with murdering an unborn child ... shouldn't everyone ... all the time?

It was wrong for the Federal Government to step-in and declare killing unborn babies a lawful activity. That they have stepped-away from this mistake is laudable. Leave the decision to the States. If the States don't want to address it at the State level, let them delegate the decision to the local level ... and then ... let them go back and re-consider what constitutes an act of murder.

[Ninurta]

Ending a life is an act of homicide. Dot at the end of that statement.

People have been charged with murder for killing an unborn baby.  Dot at the end of that statement.

Exactly. Scott Peterson was found guilty of two murders for killing his pregnant wife - once charge for ending her life, the other for ending the life of her fetus. If killing that fetus was "murder" for Scott Peterson, would the same thing not also be murder for Dr. Zhivago down at the abortion clinic?

"Homicide" has three subdivisions, legally speaking - "justifiable homicide", "involuntary homicide", and "murder". "Murder" is defined in Oran's Dictionary of the Law as "the intentional ending of one human life by another human, without justification". "Justification" involves ending a threat to one's self or another, but it does not include "I just don't want this kid, it'll cramp my freewheeling lifestyle". So, if the pregnancy is a threat to the mother's life, I could see a legal termination. "Just because", not so much.

So far as I know, I've only ever known 3 women who ever had an abortion. Two of those 3 went to their graves with deep, scarring, regrets over it, years after the fact. The third I don't know about, as we have not spoken of it since the days of the event, even though she is still living.

None of those babies were mine, by the way - I'd have had a severely negative and quite possibly deadly reaction to it if they had been mine. I believe in Equal Rights, which also means I have as much say over the disposition of my own kids as their mother does. "Equality" does not flow in one direction only, else there is nothing "equal" about it. If anyone were to intentionally kill one of my kids, I would not rest until I had watched the light leave their own eyes, in person.


If a woman has a conscience, the abortion stands a very good chance of killing the soul of the mother every bit as dead as it kills the baby... and that is kinda tragic, even of it's just.

.

[OmegaLogos]

Disclaimer: I am a 50yr old adult male aussie and this is so not my patch not my dog and not my fight but I do have my 5c to contribute to this discussion ... for whatever that is worth ...

Explanation: I qualify to say this as thanx to the transgender debate I as a male can now legally get pregnant and give birth, which up until recently was impossible.

1stly ... I agree that abortion is a god given "PERSONAL" RIGHT and can not be taken away, only denied by evil scumbags!

2ndly as a PERSONAL Right, it belongs neither to the states nor the federal government at all!

3rdly This is why I disagree with the decision made by SCOTUS ... they didn't go far enough and should of realized that most rights belong to the people and abortion is one of those rights.

Personal Disclosure: I am PERSONALLY against abortion and I would never abort a fetus/baby/child ok.

If you have had any abortions then thats between you and your God ok.

What about late term abortions, after 20-25weeks gestation, OL?

The child bearing parent has life and death power over the baby before during and after the child is born [up until the child matures into an adult at whatever legal age that is determined to be by the stupid 100IQ mob that in charge].

When does life start for you OL?

At conception!

Do you have anything else to say on this matter?

Yes ... https://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/4-3.htm

The Evil of Oppression

…2 So I admired the dead, who had already died, above the living, who are still alive. 3 But better than both is he who has not yet existed, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.

If you were God what would you do?

I'd forgive everyone their sins and ask that they all go and sin no more!

And the aborted?

I'd resurrect them!

Amen eh!

Yes, indeed, Amen!

[FlyingClayDisk]

I didn't read all the posts on this thread, because I've read them all 10,000,000,000 times before elsewhere over the past decades on this subject.

I don't know if my perspective is unique, or just another voice in the "noise".

I think I look at this whole issue very matter-of-factly...

I'm not sure who is right, and who is wrong, if anyone is either, but I do know one thing for certain...the federal government needs to get out of the middle of people's business.  Period!

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

Disclaimer: I am a 50yr old adult male aussie and this is so not my patch not my dog and not my fight but I do have my 5c to contribute to this discussion ... for whatever that is worth ...

Explanation: I qualify to say this as thanx to the transgender debate I as a male can now legally get pregnant and give birth, which up until recently was impossible.

1stly ... I agree that abortion is a god given "PERSONAL" RIGHT and can not be taken away, only denied by evil scumbags!

2ndly as a PERSONAL Right, it belongs neither to the states nor the federal government at all!

3rdly This is why I disagree with the decision made by SCOTUS ... they didn't go far enough and should of realized that most rights belong to the people and abortion is one of those rights.

Personal Disclosure: I am PERSONALLY against abortion and I would never abort a fetus/baby/child ok.

If you have had any abortions then thats between you and your God ok.

What about late term abortions, after 20-25weeks gestation, OL?

The child bearing parent has life and death power over the baby before during and after the child is born [up until the child matures into an adult at whatever legal age that is determined to be by the stupid 100IQ mob that in charge].

When does life start for you OL?

At conception!

Do you have anything else to say on this matter?

Yes ... https://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/4-3.htm

The Evil of Oppression

…2 So I admired the dead, who had already died, above the living, who are still alive. 3 But better than both is he who has not yet existed, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.

If you were God what would you do?

I'd forgive everyone their sins and ask that they all go and sin no more!

And the aborted?

I'd resurrect them!

Amen eh!

Yes, indeed, Amen!

Historically speaking, and Biblically speaking, women and children have always been the first to be sacrificed, after the livestock.

If it is okay to kill the children based on the perceived rights of others, I think we don't have long to wait, before the "Purge".

Might as well be bashing babies heads upon stones, and slaying every woman that has layed with a man.

One thing that man has become better at over the centuries is killing in mass. Be that with infants, town, countries, or races.

Personally, I don't think any human has the "right" to take the life of another. That does not mean I don't think there is the occasion for when one is justified in taking another's life.

The big issue that comes with justification, is determining who is right and who is wrong, and that can be a hell of a lot more complicated than most have to time to process, while in the heat of the moment.

I don't think this is one we can leave up to the individual without some foundation. Laws have to be in place to curtail the evil that lurks inside the heart of man.

Just my opinion.

[EndtheMadnessNow]

I’m disappointed, but not surprised by Roe vs. Wade being overturned. I feel this will have a negative effect on women with low incomes. 

I am not pro abortion, but I am pro choice. There is a difference. I hope that women will still have access to medication to terminate a pregnancy. I don’t believe that the majority of women who get abortions just casually use it as a form of birth control. That would be a very low number. 

Abortions have been happening long before Roe vs. Wade, and will continue to happen after. If anyone thinks that overturning Roe vs. Wade will stop abortions, they are naive. Desperate women will use coat hangers and back alley abortions. It will make things more dangerous. 

I think there should be people advocating women who are pregnant and don’t wish to keep their child to give the child up for adoption in lieu of getting an abortion. There are so many people who want to adopt, way more than there are children available. An ad campaign saying something like “Adoption, not abortion” would be something that I think would be really good.

(Emphasis above) Huh, my mom said exactly the same. Not surprisingly "Adoption" is now trending on the interwebs.


Lyndon B Johnson (LBJ) died of a massive heart attack in his home (he was only age 64, though he drank & smoked heavily) on the same day as the Roe Vs Wade decision. January 22, 1973.





Linda Coffee





Also, on same date:

[senona]

The scary thing is some of the states laws, that will hopefully get overturned.

I think I read Louisiana, says the morning after pill is abortion, and illegal.  Other states wanting to charge anyone that helps someone driver to another state?

Lets face it.  Birth control isn't 100%  Sure, abstinence is, but that isn't realistic.
Regardless on which side you fall on, there are many issues that arise with this, and we will never come to any type of middle ground solutions, with the media and the government stirring everyone up, so they won't/can't even have a civil conversation about it.

Yes, Louisiana had the "trigger" law kick in when this was reversed and there are conflicting talks about the morning after pill. Even tho it is FDA approved, the United States AG Merrick Garland said it is a legal drug and should be dispensed regardless.

But in Louisiana, it has a stipulation that will go into effect Aug 1 that "prohibits distributors from distributing drugs for "abortion-inducing purposes."

This claim could clash with a law in the state of Louisiana, set to go into effect August 1, that prohibits distributors from distributing drugs for "abortion-inducing purposes."

Senate Bill 388 states that any person, company or physician caught distributing abortion-inducing drugs could face up to six months in prison and a $1,000 fine and that anyone caught knowingly performing an abortion with an abortion-inducing drug could face up to five years in prison and up to a $50,000 fine.

Apparently, the drugs can be used ONLY if the pregnancy may be a danger to the mom-to-be or the unborn infant is deemed "unviable"

Per LA State Sen. Sharon Hewitt, who authored the bill banning drugs used for this purpose....

What the Supreme Court said, is that abortion is a state right to regulate and we have said in the state of Louisiana that abortion is illegal except in the case of protecting the mother if she is at risk or the baby is not viable," said the Republican representing the state's first district.

Hewitt also clarified the some drugs will not be illegal in the state. They are only restricted from being used to induce abortions, except in the case of a mother's life being in danger or an unborn child being deemed not viable.

Attorney General brings Louisiana abortion drug law into question

[senona]

When I was young-er, I thought I knew everything and was against abortions.

But as time went by and my naivety slowly vanished as I got older, my views changed.
My way of thinking expanded and started questioning anything & everything
(thank you for that Jim)

I listened and learned that there are a myriad of reasons for a woman needing to have an abortion, other than the one most talked about -- "oh gee, I had unprotected sex and now need an abortion"

I realized that things are not so cut and dry
Not to mention, morally challenging as well


Just like, aren't birth control pills themselves a form of 'abortion' in the sense that it keeps a fetus from being formed?

I mean, overall, all of this is a very complex/complicated topic and I do not feel like it can be wrapped up in a box and labeled good or bad --- it's just too technical and complex 



Therefore, even tho I myself could never go through with it 
I am not going to sit in judgement and tell other women what they should or should not do.

I do not know them
I do not know their story
I do not know their history
I do not know their financial situation


I simply do. not. know.



To each their own
One has to live with their choice, whichever way they decide




Which apparently, that makes me 'Pro-choice'

[senona]

Latest update from my state, Louisiana....

A judge blocked the 'trigger law' and set a court date for July 8th, so until then, abortions may continue



Louisiana judge temporarily places restraining order on trigger law that bans abortions in the state

NEW ORLEANS —
A state district judge in New Orleans has temporarily blocked the trigger law that makes abortions illegal in the state of Louisiana.
Judge Robin M. Giarrusso has temporarily placed a restraining order on enforcing the abortion ban until the scheduled hearing on July 8 at 10 a.m.

Judge Giarrusso argues that the laws are unconstitutionally vague.
According to court documents, abortions in the state of Louisiana can legally continue until the next hearing

And despite what many claim, not all who are against abortion are Republicans.

Our governor, who is a Dem albeit doesn't act like one, admits that he is pro-life and against abortion
(he was pretty cool during the pandemic, considering the way most of the Dem controlled states were going crazy wild with restrictions during the shutdown)





So even tho this is a very hot topic, one has to realize how TPTB will use this to once again, divide the populous.
Like they did with covid/masks/vaccines 

But now that people are tired of hearing about covid and the worst of it is over, not many are letting it upset them.





***abortion then enters the room.....***   



Now people have something new thrown in their face to be divided over
A never ending cycle of divisiveness and the MSM will do their damndest to stir the pot

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

Latest update from my state, Louisiana....

A judge blocked the 'trigger law' and set a court date for July 8th, so until then, abortions may continue



Louisiana judge temporarily places restraining order on trigger law that bans abortions in the state

NEW ORLEANS —
A state district judge in New Orleans has temporarily blocked the trigger law that makes abortions illegal in the state of Louisiana.
Judge Robin M. Giarrusso has temporarily placed a restraining order on enforcing the abortion ban until the scheduled hearing on July 8 at 10 a.m.

Judge Giarrusso argues that the laws are unconstitutionally vague.
According to court documents, abortions in the state of Louisiana can legally continue until the next hearing

And despite what many claim, not all who are against abortion are Republicans.

Our governor, who is a Dem albeit doesn't act like one, admits that he is pro-life and against abortion
(he was pretty cool during the pandemic, considering the way most of the Dem controlled states were going crazy wild with restrictions during the shutdown)





So even tho this is a very hot topic, one has to realize how TPTB will use this to once again, divide the populous.
Like they did with covid/masks/vaccines 

But now that people are tired of hearing about covid and the worst of it is over, not many are letting it upset them.





***abortion then enters the room.....***   



Now people have something new thrown in their face to be divided over
A never ending cycle of divisiveness and the MSM will do their damndest to stir the pot

We are once again allowing ourselves to be manipulated and salivating on cue.

Roe vs Wade was signed into law in 1973. The majority of the people out there screaming about their rights being taken away, were not even born yet.

This happened back during the time of bell bottom pants and "Free Love". A cell phone was not even in anyone's imagination, let alone anyone owning one.

Time has changed in leaps and bounds, and the culture has changed even more.

Abortion back then was a dirty dark secret, done in back alley's, and never talked about. Women were ostracized for even asking about the birth control pill, and Valium, "Mother's Little Helper",  was being handed out like jelly beans.

Times have changed. The culture has changed. The majority of areas all around the globe is opining a serious drop in population growth, and fear their society and culture will suffer greatly, and towns and villages are dying.

Population growth has declined mainly due to the abrupt decline in the global total fertility rate, from 5.0 in 1960 to 2.3 in 2020.[5] The decline in the total fertility rate has occurred in every region of the world and is a result of a process known as demographic transition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populati...transition.

Slower population growth has been a trend in the United States for several years, the result of decreasing fertility and net international migration, combined with increasing mortality due to an aging population.

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2...ation.html

This new triggering event is much ado about nothing.

Most women are quite knowledgeable about how to prevent getting pregnant if the do not want to have children.

Birth control methods vary far and wide. There’s a method for nearly every body and lifestyle. In fact, there are about 12 methods in total and counting. And those methods range from non-hormonal and hormonal to single use and long-lasting use.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planne...ting%20use.

People need to stop reacting and start thinking.

If you don't want to get pregnant, you have complete control over how you can achieve that, and there are numerous methods to assist you in preventing pregnancy.

Abortion is not birth control. Those with life threatening conditions that require abortion as a solution, will be allowed to receive medical care and this option, if that is what they want.

The government is not responsible for your actions or choices. If women don't want children, it is their body, and their responsibility, as well as their choice.

[Ninurta]

Yes, Louisiana had the "trigger" law kick in when this was reversed and there are conflicting talks about the morning after pill. Even tho it is FDA approved, the United States AG Merrick Garland said it is a legal drug and should be dispensed regardless.

But in Louisiana, it has a stipulation that will go into effect Aug 1 that "prohibits distributors from distributing drugs for "abortion-inducing purposes."

Ninurta's Law states that "If a thing is banned, any thing, a black market will develop for it". I just made that up, but hide and watch, and see if it does not hold true. Folks would be amazed at what they can get in the mail these days. Sometimes it's disguised, some times mislabeled to misdirect, but nearly always it gets through. I think China pioneered that smuggling method. Once upon a time, and maybe even still, one could order firearms suppressors direct from China that would arrive labeled as "metal tubes" or "car parts" to get through customs. I think a mere pill would be even easier to mislabel, and China IS flooding the US with fentanyl that is apparently unstoppable - all they would have to do is expand their catalog a wee bit.

So far as the illegality of actual use goes after the pills were smuggled in, all one would have to do is claim it to have been a miscarriage, or spontaneous abortion, and I doubt anyone would even question it if the gal was tight lipped enough about it.

.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

Yes, Louisiana had the "trigger" law kick in when this was reversed and there are conflicting talks about the morning after pill. Even tho it is FDA approved, the United States AG Merrick Garland said it is a legal drug and should be dispensed regardless.

But in Louisiana, it has a stipulation that will go into effect Aug 1 that "prohibits distributors from distributing drugs for "abortion-inducing purposes."

Ninurta's Law states that "If a thing is banned, any thing, a black market will develop for it". I just made that up, but hide and watch, and see if it does not hold true. Folks would be amazed at what they can get in the mail these days. Sometimes it's disguised, some times mislabeled to misdirect, but nearly always it gets through. I think China pioneered that smuggling method. Once upon a time, and maybe even still, one could order firearms suppressors direct from China that would arrive labeled as "metal tubes" or "car parts" to get through customs. I think a mere pill would be even easier to mislabel, and China IS flooding the US with fentanyl that is apparently unstoppable - all they would have to do is expand their catalog a wee bit.

So far as the illegality of actual use goes after the pills were smuggled in, all one would have to do is claim it to have been a miscarriage, or spontaneous abortion, and I doubt anyone would even question it if the gal was tight lipped enough about it.

.

I agree. If they can manufacture it, even if they make laws against distributing it, it will always make its way into the hands of the customer, or they would not waste their time and money manufacturing it.

You are quite correct that almost anything can be acquired over the internet, but just like with illegal drug distribution, as long as there is big money in it, it will be available.

They cannot prevent the use of any drug or substance through prohibition. As long as they are going after and punishing the user, while continuing to fund and assist the manufacturer, all illegal substance will continue to flood the streets.

Having said all that, many have very little knowledge and understanding of the methods of contraception. As I have said many times before, there are numerous available and legal ways to "prevent" pregnancies. Which is would greatly reduce the need for the "termination" of the fetus.

But there is little to no controversy or divide in that, so the media will completely ignore it.