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+--- Thread: Roe vs. Wade overturned (/thread-8895.html)
Roe vs. Wade overturned - Chiefsmom - 06-24-2022
Fox link
I didn't realize this was coming so fast.
While I don't agree over all, I also think there should be limits, and there are other options, such as the morning after pill, that should be given out for free.
Going to be an interesting news day today.
Wonder if there will be riots?
And now its on the TV breaking news, and they are "highlighting" poor & black women.
Sheesh.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - Chiefsmom - 06-24-2022
You know, regardless about how you feel on this issue, and it is a deeply personal issue, I stupidly still get shocked, by people not being able to discuss it, without calling women skanks, and all kinds of other bad things.
It is happening all over the internet right now.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - NightskyeB4Dawn - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 03:33 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote: Fox link
I didn't realize this was coming so fast.
While I don't agree over all, I also think there should be limits, and there are other options, such as the morning after pill, that should be given out for free.
Going to be an interesting news day today.
Wonder if there will be riots?
And now its on the TV breaking news, and they are "highlighting" poor & black women.
Sheesh.
This does not have to be as big of an issue as they are making of it.
We have numerous ways to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, long before it reaches the point where one would think abortion.
If you don't want to get pregnant, there are numerous birth control systems, devices, and pills to prevent that from happening. If you don't want traditional birth control methods, and you have a opps, or want to be extra safe, there is the morning after pill, it can be obtained over the counter in pharmacies, and most grocery stores.
You need to take the emergency contraceptive pill within 3 days with (Levonelle), or 5 days, with (ellaOne), if you have had unprotected sex, for it to be effective – the sooner you take it, the more effective it'll be.
If you can't afford it, it can be obtained from most local clinics or planned Parenthood clinics for free.
Of course any of these methods will require one to be responsible for their own bodies, and it requires being proactive. By the time a pregnancy has taken hold, it is generally too late for the proactive methods to work, but abortion should not ever be a standard method for birth control.
There will be those rare times where an abortion may be presented as an option, when baby is presenting a risk for the health and life of the mother. That is a medical decision to be made by the mother and her doctor. There should never be a barrier to a person receiving medical care for life saving conditions.
A woman has the right to choose if she wants to have a child. Personally, I think that choice should be made before she creates that life. There are rare circumstances that can arise, but those rare circumstances do not need a law that allows indiscriminate use of infanticide or abortions.
Just my personal opinion, and we all know what that is worth.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - guohua - 06-24-2022
I grew up in a country/society that pushed abortions for any reason at any age. Especially if you or your husband wanted a Male Child or if you had your Child and was Pregnant with a second Child.
Government paid for your abortion and if you had a Child, your Tubes were Cut and Tied so you could not have another.
My thoughts on Abortion are Justified in cases of Rape, Incest or the Mother's Health is an issue, no Minor should be taken to an Abortion Clinic Without Their Parents Permission.
Perform by a Hospital, not an Abortion Clinic.
The U S Supreme Court should set rules and for Abortions similar to the stipulations I mentioned above and take the Individual States Control away.
Why, simply because each time a different Governor is in office they can change the laws and Allow Abortions paid for by the taxpayer for any reason, "Oh, I'm Pregnant, I don't know who the Baby Daddy Is. I want an Abortion." "Damn I'm Pregnant again, I don't want another kid. I want an Abortion."
If you are young or single I think you need to take responsibility for your own Body and Future and Sex Life.
Those are just Opinions, no one needs to agree.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - ChiefD - 06-24-2022
I’m disappointed, but not surprised by Roe vs. Wade being overturned. I feel this will have a negative effect on women with low incomes.
I am not pro abortion, but I am pro choice. There is a difference. I hope that women will still have access to medication to terminate a pregnancy. I don’t believe that the majority of women who get abortions just casually use it as a form of birth control. That would be a very low number.
Abortions have been happening long before Roe vs. Wade, and will continue to happen after. If anyone thinks that overturning Roe vs. Wade will stop abortions, they are naive. Desperate women will use coat hangers and back alley abortions. It will make things more dangerous.
I think there should be people advocating women who are pregnant and don’t wish to keep their child to give the child up for adoption in lieu of getting an abortion. There are so many people who want to adopt, way more than there are children available. An ad campaign saying something like “Adoption, not abortion” would be something that I think would be really good.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - NightskyeB4Dawn - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 06:30 PM)ChiefD Wrote: I’m disappointed, but not surprised by Roe vs. Wade being overturned. I feel this will have a negative effect on women with low incomes.
I am not pro abortion, but I am pro choice. There is a difference. I hope that women will still have access to medication to terminate a pregnancy. I don’t believe that the majority of women who get abortions just casually use it as a form of birth control. That would be a very low number.
Abortions have been happening long before Roe vs. Wade, and will continue to happen after. If anyone thinks that overturning Roe vs. Wade will stop abortions, they are naive. Desperate women will use coat hangers and back alley abortions. It will make things more dangerous.
I think there should be people advocating women who are pregnant and don’t wish to keep their child to give the child up for adoption in lieu of getting an abortion. There are so many people who want to adopt, way more than there are children available. An ad campaign saying something like “Adoption, not abortion” would be something that I think would be really good.
My department works with all cases of reported rapes and sexual assaults that have been reported in the county where I live. Occasionally I have a patient that lives out of county, or out of State. Some of these victims are from the low income community and some are homeless.
There are several programs that will assist with pregnancy prevention, free of charge. All cases of reported rapes are provide Plan B or Ella, to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.
It is cheaper, easier, and healthier to prevent a pregnancy, than it is to have an abortion. The means are available to all that request them, and it will be done anonymously.
These services are available in almost all States.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - Chiefsmom - 06-24-2022
Doubled
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - Chiefsmom - 06-24-2022
The scary thing is some of the states laws, that will hopefully get overturned.
I think I read Louisiana, says the morning after pill is abortion, and illegal. Other states wanting to charge anyone that helps someone driver to another state?
Lets face it. Birth control isn't 100% Sure, abstinence is, but that isn't realistic.
Regardless on which side you fall on, there are many issues that arise with this, and we will never come to any type of middle ground solutions, with the media and the government stirring everyone up, so they won't/can't even have a civil conversation about it.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - NightskyeB4Dawn - 06-24-2022
The morning after pill is not an abortifacient. That is why it can be purchased over the counter. And why they can't deem it illegal.
The morning after pills do not end a pregnancy that has implanted. They work primarily by delaying or preventing ovulation.
The drug you may be thinking of is mifepristone (Mifeprex). It is not the same as the morning after pill. It is also known as RU-486 or the abortion pill. This is the drug terminates an established pregnancy, after the fertilized egg has attached to the uterine wall and has begun to develop. It will likely become illegal in some States.
Morning after pills are not the same as birth control pills and are a lot more effective. Though birth control may not prevent absolutely 100%
of all pregnancy, the number of pregnancies it prevent will still greatly reduce the number abortions that some my want.
It is not too much to ask from a woman that does not wish to have a child, to take some responsibility for preventing that from happening. Abortion should not be the immediate solution to an unwanted pregnancy. It should be the last resort.
I agree that the media is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Unwanted pregnancies have many solutions. Abortions have been made the center of attention, when prevention should be at the center of this issue.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - Snarl - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 06:45 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote: I think I read Louisiana, says the morning after pill is abortion, and illegal. Other states wanting to charge anyone that helps someone driver to another state?
Looks like it's going from one extreme to another. If abortion is illegal, is it illegal in the sense of being classified as homicide? What are people going to be charged with? Who's going to be charged?
I sense a period of turmoil. And in the end ... the government will gain more control.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - NightskyeB4Dawn - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 07:34 PM)Snarl Wrote:(06-24-2022, 06:45 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote: I think I read Louisiana, says the morning after pill is abortion, and illegal. Other states wanting to charge anyone that helps someone driver to another state?
Looks like it's going from one extreme to another. If abortion is illegal, is it illegal in the sense of being classified as homicide? What are people going to be charged with? Who's going to be charged?
I sense a period of turmoil. And in the end ... the government will gain more control.
The morning after pill and the abortion pill are not the same thing.
The morning after pill stops the sperm from implanting in the uterus, so no fertilization takes place. No baby, no need to remove it.
The abortion pill terminates an established pregnancy. Big difference.
This does not have to reach the level of extremes. We have to stop allowing the media to poison what and how we think. There does not have to be an all or nothing solution.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - BIAD - 06-24-2022
Well, I guess there goes the eugenics gig of Klaus Schwab and his buddies!
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - MalevolentTwitch - 06-24-2022
As much as I am loathe to climb out of my hole, especially when I am only 20 pages into a 213 page ruling, this one am I willing to throw my hat into the ring on...
Again, with the caveat that I am only 20 pages in, the general understanding so far seems to be that Roe V. Wade was overuled due to the fact that that it ignored some very important things...
Firstly, the court upheld the tenth amendment, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”, by stating, until Roe V. Wade, there was nothing in the Constitution that discussed abortion. Thereby the court is choosing to leave it up to the states and their duly elected representatives...
I.e., if you don't want abortion to be illegal in your state, get out and fucking vote.
Secondly, and in reference to my first point, the court upheld a long standing tradition of essentially, if there is nothing in the Constitution about this issue, we must look to the general laws already in place in the majority of states. At the time of Roe v. Wade, 30 states had regulations regarding abortion. Roe v. Wade supplanted that tradition.
Third, in reference to points 1 and 2 above, and this will be a direct quote from page 9...
"Constitutional analysis must begin with “the language of the instrument,” Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 186–189(1824), which offers a “fixed standard” for ascertaining what our founding document means, 1 J. Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States §399, p. 383(1833). The Constitution makes no express reference to right to obtain an abortion, and therefore those who claim that it protects such a right must show that the right is somehow implicit in the constitutional text."
By my understanding, it is the duty of the Supreme Court to measure, under strict scrutiny, whether a law supports or defies the Constitution and nothing else. This isn't really about abortion rights per se, but whether or not the Federal Government has a right to interfere with state law regarding abortion.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - ChiefD - 06-24-2022
If one really wants to get technical, I believe the pill is something that keeps a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. Didn't the Catholic Church say at one point (this would have been many years ago) that they didn't support women being on the pill? They actually considered the pill to be an abortion. Yet the pill is probably the most effective form of birth control out there. It seems like some pharmacies are playing politics, in that they refuse to give women who come to fill a prescription for the pill their prescription, due to religious beliefs or some nonsense. If you are going to use that argument, you have no right to be a pharmacist. Stop playing politics with women's bodies. Some of these women, lacking a decent form of birth control, will get pregnant, and maybe then get an abortion. It's pretty ironic, isn't it?
Politicians (mostly men) don't want women getting abortions, but then they make it so that women who are genuinely trying to do the right thing are thwarted from doing it due to conservative evangelicals who are playing judge and jury. Straight up bullshit.
Yeah, this is a real hot button issue, and I'm not changing my mind or my views on it. This country has taken yet another step backwards due to the cancer who is trump.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - guohua - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 08:11 PM)MalevolentTwitch Wrote: As much as I am loathe to climb out of my hole, especially when I am only 20 pages into a 213 page ruling, this one am I willing to throw my hat into the ring on...
Again, with the caveat that I am only 20 pages in, the general understanding so far seems to be that Roe V. Wade was overuled due to the fact that that it ignored some very important things...
Firstly, the court upheld the tenth amendment, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”, by stating, until Roe V. Wade, there was nothing in the Constitution that discussed abortion. Thereby the court is choosing to leave it up to the states and their duly elected representatives...
I.e., if you don't want abortion to be illegal in your state, get out and fucking vote.
Secondly, and in reference to my first point, the court upheld a long standing tradition of essentially, if there is nothing in the Constitution about this issue, we must look to the general laws already in place in the majority of states. At the time of Roe v. Wade, 30 states had regulations regarding abortion. Roe v. Wade supplanted that tradition.
Third, in reference to points 1 and 2 above, and this will be a direct quote from page 9...
"Constitutional analysis must begin with “the language of the instrument,” Gibbons v. Ogden, 9 Wheat. 1, 186–189(1824), which offers a “fixed standard” for ascertaining what our founding document means, 1 J. Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States §399, p. 383(1833). The Constitution makes no express reference to right to obtain an abortion, and therefore those who claim that it protects such a right must show that the right is somehow implicit in the constitutional text."
By my understanding, it is the duty of the Supreme Court to measure, under strict scrutiny, whether a law supports or defies the Constitution and nothing else. This isn't really about abortion rights per se, but whether or not the Federal Government has a right to interfere with state law regarding abortion.
You are Absolutely Correct.
My Husband, who knows and understands the Constitution of The United States pretty well said basically the same thing you just did.
Those people with their Panties In A Wad Up the Crack of their Ass need to S T F U!
Like you said, they need to Vote or Move.
@"MalevolentTwitch" 
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - NightskyeB4Dawn - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 09:38 PM)ChiefD Wrote: If one really wants to get technical, I believe the pill is something that keeps a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. Didn't the Catholic Church say at one point (this would have been many years ago) that they didn't support women being on the pill? They actually considered the pill to be an abortion. Yet the pill is probably the most effective form of birth control out there. It seems like some pharmacies are playing politics, in that they refuse to give women who come to fill a prescription for the pill their prescription, due to religious beliefs or some nonsense. If you are going to use that argument, you have no right to be a pharmacist. Stop playing politics with women's bodies. Some of these women, lacking a decent form of birth control, will get pregnant, and maybe then get an abortion. It's pretty ironic, isn't it?
Politicians (mostly men) don't want women getting abortions, but then they make it so that women who are genuinely trying to do the right thing are thwarted from doing it due to conservative evangelicals who are playing judge and jury. Straight up bullshit.
Yeah, this is a real hot button issue, and I'm not changing my mind or my views on it. This country has taken yet another step backwards due to the cancer who is trump.
People choose what religion that want to practice. The Catholic church can make rules requesting their parishioners not take birth control pills, but that is not the same thing as the pills being illegal.
Technically the pill makes the uterus mimic having a period, which will not allow a fertile egg to implant. So what are they going to do, prevent women from having periods? The Catholic church does not determine law. If women are so devout that they will listen faithfully to the Catholic church edicts, then there will be no problem at all. Since the Catholic church used to say the only time a husband and wife were to have sex, was for procreation. So devout Catholics would have no need for birth control pills, and surely would not have a need for an abortion.
Again, people can choose where they spend their money. If a pharmacy, for religious reasons, or any other reason, refuses to fill their legal prescription, why would they give them their money. There are way too many other places to get their prescriptions filled. They can even be filled online.
I am not trying to change your mind. This is an issue not because it can't be logically worked out, but because the media has made it a hot button issue, so most people will not take the time to actually look at what is actually happening. They just respond with the knee jerk reaction in the way they have been conditioned to respond.
Abortions should not be the solution of choice for unwanted pregnancies. If a woman does not want to get pregnant, the first option should be to be responsible enough to take actions to prevent that from happening.
Abortion may be the best solution in some cases, but personal responsibility should not be ignored.
Again, just my opinion.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - Ninurta - 06-24-2022
I'm not going to really weigh in on the abortion issue, and neither did the SCOTUS. I won't weigh in on it because I don't care about it, either way. I realize that men are allowed to get themselves pregnant now, but I won't be one of those pregnant guys, because I know how to control myself. Not my problem if someone else can't control themselves. I see religion being mentioned, and biblically, if you want to kill kids, ONLY the parents have the right of life or death over a kid. But religions don't make US secular law.
The SCOTUS didn't say yeah or nay on abortions, either, despite what Marxists like Pelosi are screaming in their foam flecked rage. This decision had one thing at heart, and one thing only, and that thing was not abortion. What it did was preclude a centralized tyranny. The Central Planning Comittee of Comrades in DC has no damn business making decisions for people in far flung areas they will never see, and this decision recognizes that by returning the responsibility locally, to the states. It says that, in affirmation of the Constitution, if a thing is not mentioned in the Constitution (and abortion is not), then it is a matter for states, localities, or the People to decide, not the proper purview of a centralized tyranny to decide FOR them.
If anyone be contentious, the decision provides a remedy - all you have to do to make abortion a nationally-recognize right, unassailable by your state, is point out to the SCOTUS where the Constitution mentions it and guarantees it as a right. Simples, no? Don't take my word for it - read the decision YOURSELF instead of relying on what others say ABOUT the decision. The remedy I mentioned is right there in it, in black and white.
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RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - GeauxHomeLittleD - 06-25-2022
From my understanding of the ruling SCOTUS just flipped it back to the states, where it belongs. If people don't like the laws in their states (any laws, not just abortion laws) they are free to move to a state where they find the laws more agreeable or campaign for new state lawmakers whose policies they find more in line with their beliefs. It really is that simple. If people make excuses for not moving or trying to affect change within their own state law systems that's their problem and none of my concern.
RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - Ninurta - 06-25-2022
(06-25-2022, 12:12 AM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: From my understanding of the ruling SCOTUS just flipped it back to the states, where it belongs. If people don't like the laws in their states (any laws, not just abortion laws) they are free to move to a state where they find the laws more agreeable or campaign for new state lawmakers whose policies they find more in line with their beliefs. It really is that simple. If people make excuses for not moving or trying to affect change within their own state law systems that's their problem and none of my concern.
I noticed that in KY and TN, and perhaps soon WV, abortion is illegal now or else heavily regulated - I'm not sure which. In VA, it is not, nor has it ever been. So what I expect to see is a massive influx of panicky teenagers from those areas who never learned to keep their knees together (parents fault, I'm guessing) into VA to take advantage of the lack of abortion laws here. Because of that circumstance, I have no doubt that congress will soon make a reaching attempt to legalize abortion nationwide under the "interstate commerce clause" like they did with civil rights and are still trying to do to infringe the Second Amendment.
Nah, it ain't over, not by longshot. This ruling just allows the debate to begin.
I think at this point that Buchanan County, VA, would be a great place for ballard Healthcare to set up an abortion mill so they can rake in the bucks, because Buchanan County borders both KY and WV. Lee County would be another good choice for another mill, because it borders both KY and TN. This could be turned into a financial boon for alert healthcare companies, if they can get set up before Planned Parenthood moves in to those places. maybe even if PP does move in. Folks around here are not big on eugenics or black genocide, the very foundations of Planned Parenthood, so any PP facilities set up around here might not last long. Ballard health, on the other hand, has the respect of a lot of folks around here, so they already have their foot in the door, if they just strike while the iron is hot.
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RE: Roe vs. Wade overturned - GeauxHomeLittleD - 06-25-2022
(06-25-2022, 01:52 AM)Ninurta Wrote: I noticed that in KY and TN, and perhaps soon WV, abortion is illegal now or else heavily regulated - I'm not sure which. In VA, it is not, nor has it ever been. So what I expect to see is a massive influx of panicky teenagers from those areas who never learned to keep their knees together (parents fault, I'm guessing) into VA to take advantage of the lack of abortion laws here. Because of that circumstance, I have no doubt that congress will soon make a reaching attempt to legalize abortion nationwide under the "interstate commerce clause" like they did with civil rights and are still trying to do to infringe the Second Amendment.
Nah, it ain't over, not by longshot. This ruling just allows the debate to begin.
I think at this point that Buchanan County, VA, would be a great place for ballard Healthcare to set up an abortion mill so they can rake in the bucks, because Buchanan County borders both KY and WV. Lee County would be another good choice for another mill, because it borders both KY and TN. This could be turned into a financial boon for alert healthcare companies, if they can get set up before Planned Parenthood moves in to those places. maybe even if PP does move in. Folks around here are not big on eugenics or black genocide, the very foundations of Planned Parenthood, so any PP facilities set up around here might not last long. Ballard health, on the other hand, has the respect of a lot of folks around here, so they already have their foot in the door, if they just strike while the iron is hot.
.
I'm not really sure about the abortion laws in Kentucky, though I do know our AG and Planned Parenthood are constantly battling it out over our one tiny abortion clinic here in the 'Ville. In the state I moved here from (Texas) the cut off time is 12 weeks- which in my opinion is plenty of time to do what you feel you need to do. At 12 weeks is usually when "fluttering" begins and in my opinion once you can feel it moving it is no longer just a cluster of cells.
I understand that women need to do what they feel is right for them at the time but I wish that if they are determined to have an abortion maybe somebody should tell them how much it will effect them later in life- especially once they decide to give birth to a child, hold it in their arms and feel that joy... then slowly feel the rise of horror at what they did and have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
I agree with you that a smart investor would open a clinic right across the state line. The marijuana dispensaries do and make a killing off of people crossing the border from "illegal" states. Stands to reason abortion clinics would as well.