My Second Sighting

[A51Watcher]

Thanks again for another thoughtful reply BIAD.

I agree with most everything you said.

I've seen them and for me, that's a problem.

The shapes don't correlate with what we normally see in the sky, even nature steers away from 'disc' and 'orb'-shapes
to assist in air travel. Our flight culture always requires wings for for lift and in my sighting in Belen -New Mexico, only
balloons would make sense to the shapes I observed.

So why use that shape...? As said before, Kenneth Arnold saw nine crescent-shaped objects in a particular managed
formation close to Mount Rainer and it was only later when describing their movement that the 'flying saucer' moniker
was grabbed by the media and became a household name.


Kenneth Arnold.

Bob Lazar's 'Sport-model' is a saucer shape, George Adamski's ufo was typical flying saucer shape, the Paul Trent image
is the same and countless others all show a disc configuration. Why?



The shape is a waste of space in regards of the interior, as the edges have no benefit to a pilot's access -regardless of
height. Possibly, the outer 'rim area' could be used to store fuel or even hold devices to assist in stabilising and thrust, but
the main section where a pilot is presumed to be positioned would possibly negate any aerodynamic aspect of a saucer
-shaped craft.

If an engine existed such as Mr Lazar suggest and the power available to propel an object through the air was so immense
that drag wasn't an issue, then why select the saucer-shape instead of a more convenient profile to house the occupants
of the machine?

Then there's direction, animals with forward-facing eyes tend to move in the direction they can see and when designing vehicles,
this natural feature manifests in the way we build our flying craft. Pilots are placed at the front of a craft for obvious reasons and
the power to project an object tends to be placed at the rear of the pilot's position. This pattern derives for nature, the energy to
move birds through the air is situated behind where the eyes are positioned.



But we may not be talking about anything 'natural' to this planet, of course. However, the descriptions of the presumed occupants
counters the idea of a different perception from another world. The average alien is reported to have two forward-facing eyes and
move in the direction they see. Their generic physical shapes are humanoid and again, should effect their designs of vehicles to
travel in.

Maybe that's been our problem all along, we're failing to grasp a different way of life.
Comfort, efficiency, the wasteful use of materials to acquire what we use and our accepted view of how to travel through our skies...
they may be all incorrect when attempting to discover, communicate and copy the craft of those who are not of this Earth.

Wow BIAD, a lot to unpack there. I will start with Kenneth Arnold.

Here is the report he turned in to Air Force officials who came to interview him.


As we can see the shape is a classic saucer shape with straight lines on the back. 

Arnold had been in contact with Air force officials who arranged to come meet him in a few weeks to interview him in person about his sighting. He spoke with one of them several times by phone in the interim before the meeting. When they arrived they started off with small talk about the latest sightings being reported in the news. They updated him on the William Rhodes case in Arizona and described the shape of the craft he had gotten pictures of.
 



Arnold later said the description they gave caused his memory to suddenly to recall a detail he had forgotten until then. He said all the craft in the formation he saw were circular except for the lead craft which had straight edges along the trailing edge.

So where did the photo you posted come from with Arnold posing with a painting of a bat shape craft?
It turns out Arnold had agreed to sell his story to Amazing Stories magazine which had a large art department that created illustrations for the cover and all the stories they published that did not have photos to go with them. Arnold had no photos of his sighting so the owner directed his art department to create that painting and when Arnol showed up to pick up his check, he was asked to pose with that painting before he got his check.

I have collected all the UFO sighting reports from 1947 and have 1500+ reports from the entire year from all across the country and the vast majority report silver saucer shaped craft.

As you can see from my avatar my footage from Area 51 shows a saucer shaped craft and the same goes for Bob Lazar's footage. Not to mention what we saw with the naked eye were also saucer shaped craft. This became even more apparent when they landed about a 1/4 mile away from me.  

George Adamskis' story deserves no place in examining true UFO history. All that he accomplished was demonstrating he had figured out false perspective -



You can see a summary of my 1947 sighting collection here -

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index...opic=329.0

I will respond to more of your points next time. 

Cheers

[A51Watcher]

What are your thoughts on the Area 51 caller A51Watcher?

 

He called back next day I believe and said it was a joke..  I don't know about that.  Hmmm.  


Is there a way to see these craft without trespassing, as in, farther away on a hill or such?  Would love to see these things. Not be arrested though.  Not fun.

Yeah my impression is - is was bogus. I used to co-host a monthly UFO TV show on local cable access TV. Sometime we would do a live call in show similar to Art Bell's and after a while you develop a sense for bogus calls. 

How to see these craft without trespassing. Yes. If you plan it out carefully and do your homwork, it IS possible. Right now evidence shows they have have moved the testing program across the border into Utah to Dugway Military base. Also the program is guarded by Black Berets on testing nights and expand the boundaries of protection to any area they feel like on those nights and will detain you and confiscate any filming equipment you have.

Other than that, you should be fine ;^)

[DaphneApollo2]

What are your thoughts on the Area 51 caller A51Watcher?

 

He called back next day I believe and said it was a joke..  I don't know about that.  Hmmm.  


Is there a way to see these craft without trespassing, as in, farther away on a hill or such?  Would love to see these things. Not be arrested though.  Not fun.

Yeah my impression is - is was bogus. I used to co-host a monthly UFO TV show on local cable access TV. Sometime we would do a live call in show similar to Art Bell's and after a while you develop a sense for bogus calls. 

How to see these craft without trespassing. Yes. If you plan it out carefully and do your homwork, it IS possible. Right now evidence shows they have have moved the testing program across the border into Utah to Dugway Military base. Also the program is guarded by Black Berets on testing nights and expand the boundaries of protection to any area they feel like on those nights and will detain you and confiscate any filming equipment you have.

Other than that, you should be fine ;^)

Be aware that on

Thanks for the info.  I didn't know they had moved even.  

[A51Watcher]

What are your thoughts on the Area 51 caller A51Watcher?

 

He called back next day I believe and said it was a joke..  I don't know about that.  Hmmm.  


Is there a way to see these craft without trespassing, as in, farther away on a hill or such?  Would love to see these things. Not be arrested though.  Not fun.

Yeah my impression is - is was bogus. I used to co-host a monthly UFO TV show on local cable access TV. Sometime we would do a live call in show similar to Art Bell's and after a while you develop a sense for bogus calls. 

How to see these craft without trespassing. Yes. If you plan it out carefully and do your homwork, it IS possible. Right now evidence shows they have have moved the testing program across the border into Utah to Dugway Military base. Also the program is guarded by Black Berets on testing nights and expand the boundaries of protection to any area they feel like on those nights and will detain you and confiscate any filming equipment you have.

Other than that, you should be fine ;^)

Be aware that on

Thanks for the info.  I didn't know they had moved even.  

Yeah they continued testing at the Nevada location until the end of 1992 and then moved to Utah. Citizen UFO watchers discovered and filmed them. 

We processed their videos and confirmed they are using gravity propulsion technology.

[DaphneApollo2]

What are your thoughts on the Area 51 caller A51Watcher?

 

He called back next day I believe and said it was a joke..  I don't know about that.  Hmmm.  


Is there a way to see these craft without trespassing, as in, farther away on a hill or such?  Would love to see these things. Not be arrested though.  Not fun.

Yeah my impression is - is was bogus. I used to co-host a monthly UFO TV show on local cable access TV. Sometime we would do a live call in show similar to Art Bell's and after a while you develop a sense for bogus calls. 

How to see these craft without trespassing. Yes. If you plan it out carefully and do your homwork, it IS possible. Right now evidence shows they have have moved the testing program across the border into Utah to Dugway Military base. Also the program is guarded by Black Berets on testing nights and expand the boundaries of protection to any area they feel like on those nights and will detain you and confiscate any filming equipment you have.

Other than that, you should be fine ;^)

Be aware that on

Thanks for the info.  I didn't know they had moved even.  

Yeah they continued testing at the Nevada location until the end of 1992 and then moved to Utah. Citizen UFO watchers discovered and filmed them. 

We processed their videos and confirmed they are using gravity propulsion technology.

Interesting thread @A51Watcher .  

[BIAD]

Wow BIAD, a lot to unpack there. I will start with Kenneth Arnold.

...So where did the photo you posted come from with Arnold posing with a painting of a bat shape craft?
It turns out Arnold had agreed to sell his story to Amazing Stories magazine which had a large art department
that created illustrations for the cover and all the stories they published that did not have photos to go with them.
Arnold had no photos of his sighting so the owner directed his art department to create that painting and when
Arnold showed up to pick up his check, he was asked to pose with that painting before he got his check...

A Wow back...!! I didn't know that!

I assumed the crafts Arnold saw were similar to the rendering he posed with, but without the exaggerated wing formation.
I certainly didn't know he would taint the sighting simply to acquire his money!

My reference to Adamski (a charlatan, I'm sure you'd agree) was merely to show how the classic ufo-shape was accepted as
the norm -even with the less-honourable side of the ufo field. I always thought the Rhodes images were the kind that Kenneth
Arnold had observed and the back-part of the craft went against the norm I was attempting to show.




Of course, conventional propulsion and this type of design just wouldn't work unless another factor was involved that we're
currently unaware of, but would any type of drive-system work in our environment? Weather doesn't seem to hinder their
movement and even though it was thought a lightning-strike may have been responsible for downing the Roswell craft,
the three weird spheres I saw seemed overly-keen in flying into the oncoming thunderstorm!

Is the air/sky we take for granted, have the same composition the edges of these vehicles deals with during their flight?
I know a anti-gravity device could negate the problems we deal with in regards of heat, sonic booms etc, but then why
the saucer configuration?

Thank you for setting me straight on Kenneth Arnold's situation and for the link you kindly provided.
What you saw and filmed in Nevada -I strongly believe are craft that are beyond the public's perception, but the reason for
that damned flying-saucer shape still alludes me!

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

I believe I witnessed a triangular craft in the 1980s in suburban Detroit. Silent and traveling a few hundred feet above the trees. It traveled south in a straight line toward Detroit proper and slowly rotated as it traveled. I could only see three lights at what I assumed were the points of a triangle, however, it could have been any shape. I had two other witnesses with me at the time and we were all probably high from smoking weed.

I saw what I thought was a high altitude balloon once, that thing was very strange and organic. My buddy and I watched it for over a half hour with binoculars. We agreed to not discuss what we were seeing until we could draw it and compare notes. He was seeing what I was for sure.

I don't care too much anymore. I used to have alien invasion nightmares, I haven't had one of those in like 30 years.

I don't do video, it eats up my data, but I give you high credit for your efforts. I may check it out at work where I can use the internet connection there.

Any how bravo and keep up the excellent work.

[BIAD]

I believe I witnessed a triangular craft in the 1980s in suburban Detroit. Silent and traveling a few hundred feet above the trees. It traveled south in a straight line toward Detroit proper and slowly rotated as it traveled. I could only see three lights at what I assumed were the points of a triangle, however, it could have been any shape. I had two other witnesses with me at the time and we were all probably high from smoking weed.

I saw what I thought was a high altitude balloon once, that thing was very strange and organic. My buddy and I watched it for over a half hour with binoculars. We agreed to not discuss what we were seeing until we could draw it and compare notes. He was seeing what I was for sure.

I don't care too much anymore. I used to have alien invasion nightmares, I haven't had one of those in like 30 years.

I don't do video, it eats up my data, but I give you high credit for your efforts. I may check it out at work where I can use the internet connection there.

Any how bravo and keep up the excellent work.

That was really my point, Michigan, a triangular-shaped craft I can appreciate as something that we're dabbling with, but the
classic saucer shape must be a concept that's connected to something not Earth-orientated.
What that 'something' is, is a mystery to me!

[guohua]

WoW! Interesting thread.
I think the Triangle shape craft are ours.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

I have called that sighting I posted a triangle, but I couldn't see the outline of the craft, just three lights. These lights were equal distance and formed a triangle shape, however, they may have been on the underside of a saucer, sphere, or some other shape, it was too dark to tell.

It was the only thing I've seen that I considered might have been a UFO.

[A51Watcher]

I believe I witnessed a triangular craft in the 1980s in suburban Detroit. Silent and traveling a few hundred feet above the trees. It traveled south in a straight line toward Detroit proper and slowly rotated as it traveled. I could only see three lights at what I assumed were the points of a triangle, however, it could have been any shape. I had two other witnesses with me at the time and we were all probably high from smoking weed.

I saw what I thought was a high altitude balloon once, that thing was very strange and organic. My buddy and I watched it for over a half hour with binoculars. We agreed to not discuss what we were seeing until we could draw it and compare notes. He was seeing what I was for sure.

I don't care too much anymore. I used to have alien invasion nightmares, I haven't had one of those in like 30 years.

I don't do video, it eats up my data, but I give you high credit for your efforts. I may check it out at work where I can use the internet connection there.

Any how bravo and keep up the excellent work.

That was really my point, Michigan, a triangular-shaped craft I can appreciate as something that we're dabbling with, but the
classic saucer shape must be a concept that's connected to something not Earth-orientated.
What that 'something' is, is a mystery to me!

BIAD, I suspect the shape is to supress corona dishcharge. Bob has mentioned the interior has no sharp edges and everything looks as if it was made of wax and was heated up and slightly melted to remove sharp edges to supress corona discharge. 

Take a look at your local power station and you will see components that look like the top half of saucers with many plates in between and the bottom half of saucers at the other end.

The voltage saucers maintain during operation is crazy high and the outer surface is so highly charged it lights up the air like a neon sign without any glass tube to contain it like a neon sign does.

[A51Watcher]

Here are some single frames from my Area 51 footage demonstrating how the voltage on the surface of these craft are so high that they light up the gases in the air -

[A51Watcher]

Here are some of the gases and the colors they produce when put in a discharge tube and have voltage applied -

[guohua]

@"A51Watcher" 
I have never seen those colors before. Thanks

[BIAD]

BIAD, I suspect the shape is to supress corona discharge. Bob has mentioned the interior has no sharp edges and
everything looks as if it was made of wax and was heated up and slightly melted to remove sharp edges to supress
corona discharge. 

Take a look at your local power station and you will see components that look like the top half of saucers with many
plates in between and the bottom half of saucers at the other end.

The voltage saucers maintain during operation is crazy high and the outer surface is so highly charged it lights up the
air like a neon sign without any glass tube to contain it like a neon sign does.

 Now that makes sense and I've heard ionisation can effect the air surrounding a discharging object.
(Completely out of my depth here!)

So the drive-mechanism creates the discharge. (a by-product or is it part of the locomotion of the craft?)

Please don't read into my comment below negatively, I'm just attempting to marry the idea of of what we've accepted
as the Ufo phenomena through the mocking lens of the media and what the everyday public report they see. I'm being
cynical to prove a point that I would be interested in your opinion about. (I know it's a little tangent, but I think it's
relevant)

If we accept what we're led to believe -that Ufos and aliens are main characters in this ongoing mystery of a reclusive
non-human race and their magical vehicles, isn't it just a damned shame those craft 'light-up' when flying in the dark?!
All those centuries of flying around in the Earth's atmosphere and they never knew what we earthlings knew... we can
see you when you put your flying-saucer into gear!

One would think a smart alien.. an advanced race exploring -for whatever reasons, a planet that may hold intelligence 
(and the jury is still out on that one!) would ponder on what whether their interaction would effect the natural beat of
human evolution? Yet, their illuminated craft can rival Vegas when the night comes and one can visualise the crouching
aliens hiding under the control-panel saying to each other: "Damn... if we'd only created a dampener for that corona
discharge, we wouldn't be in this mess!"


Or... is the discharge a required facet of propulsion and maneuverability for the vehicles, a need that said-aliens deem
allowable in their agenda? If so, the notion that humans are to be avoided because an alien presence could disrupt the
nature development of their race might not be such a big deal on any assumed protocols the off-worlders may have.

No -in my opinion, the 'glow' is there and not a failing. If all of these craft out there in the desert are man-made, I can
see the need for secrecy and picking a 'quiet night' to test them due to this corona emission. The obvious answer would
to just test them during the day and maybe they do, but it may also be that the many sightings around the world are
genuine alien flight and the occupants are not concerned with what we think!


And that worries me!

[A51Watcher]

BIAD, I suspect the shape is to supress corona discharge. Bob has mentioned the interior has no sharp edges and
everything looks as if it was made of wax and was heated up and slightly melted to remove sharp edges to supress
corona discharge. 

Take a look at your local power station and you will see components that look like the top half of saucers with many
plates in between and the bottom half of saucers at the other end.

The voltage saucers maintain during operation is crazy high and the outer surface is so highly charged it lights up the
air like a neon sign without any glass tube to contain it like a neon sign does.

 Now that makes sense and I've heard ionisation can effect the air surrounding a discharging object.
(Completely out of my depth here!)

So the drive-mechanism creates the discharge. (a by-product or is it part of the locomotion of the craft?)

Please don't read into my comment below negatively, I'm just attempting to marry the idea of of what we've accepted
as the Ufo phenomena through the mocking lens of the media and what the everyday public report they see. I'm being
cynical to prove a point that I would be interested in your opinion about. (I know it's a little tangent, but I think it's
relevant)

If we accept what we're led to believe -that Ufos and aliens are main characters in this ongoing mystery of a reclusive
non-human race and their magical vehicles, isn't it just a damned shame those craft 'light-up' when flying in the dark?!
All those centuries of flying around in the Earth's atmosphere and they never knew what we earthlings knew... we can
see you when you put your flying-saucer into gear!

One would think a smart alien.. an advanced race exploring -for whatever reasons, a planet that may hold intelligence 
(and the jury is still out on that one!) would ponder on what whether their interaction would effect the natural beat of
human evolution? Yet, their illuminated craft can rival Vegas when the night comes and one can visualise the crouching
aliens hiding under the control-panel saying to each other: "Damn... if we'd only created a dampener for that corona
discharge, we wouldn't be in this mess!"


Or... is the discharge a required facet of propulsion and maneuverability for the vehicles, a need that said-aliens deem
allowable in their agenda? If so, the notion that humans are to be avoided because an alien presence could disrupt the
nature development of their race might not be such a big deal on any assumed protocols the off-worlders may have.

No -in my opinion, the 'glow' is there and not a failing. If all of these craft out there in the desert are man-made, I can
see the need for secrecy and picking a 'quiet night' to test them due to this corona emission. The obvious answer would
to just test them during the day and maybe they do, but it may also be that the many sightings around the world are
genuine alien flight and the occupants are not concerned with what we think!


And that worries me!

The corona discharge is a by product of the propulsion system. If you do not supress corona discharge on a high voltage system you wind up with this -



Here is a video Bob and his friend Gene Huff produced in 1990 to explain his experience at the S4 facility at Area 51 and the Alien propulsion system he worked on there -