Brexit: UK votes to leave EU in historic referendum

[Mystic Wanderer]

BREXIT
BAIT AND SWITCH
From my perspective the public and perhaps especially the alternative media are losing the plot when it comes to Brexit.  Rabid nationalism is rarely a good thing and in the case of what I see going on around me being currently in Britain at this seemingly momentous time is no exception.
One thing that I find interesting is that Kameran Faily who worked for many years for the City of London Banksters had cautioned in one of my interviews referring to the time of the Scottish referendum back in 2014, that the Illuminati (or elitists or globalists or whatever you choose to call them) plan was to isolate the City of London from the rest of the UK.  He said this was the long term plan.
www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-referendum-results-brexit-what-they-tell-us-about-britain-a7100286.html
As it happens, fast forward to June 2016 by way of a referendum which was planned 2 years in advance by David Cameron’s government to take place at this time, resulted in just that with the City of London voting to remain and the rest of the country voting to leave.  Where things go from here is not clear but in the same interview Kameran Faily said that the Queen refused to ‘let Scotland go’ and had therefore insisted on fixing the vote during the original referendum to force Scotland to remain tied to Britain.  Now we have the untidy issue raising its head again as a result of the outcome of Brexit where as everyone knows, Scotland voted with 62 percent to remain.
For those who doubt black magicians being at work Kameran Faily also stated in the same interview that prior to a magical act they require “death and blood”.  Arguably the recent death of MP Jo Cox was just such an illuminati sacrifice.
We also have Northern Ireland firmly in the remain camp.  All of this is a threat to the solidarity of what we know of as “Great Britain”  or the “United Kingdom”.  Obviously not so united after all (if it ever was).
The markets are another case in point indicating a kind of 911 type fiasco where the smart money would have been wise to “short’ the outcome in the day of, in spite of the major U.S. papers calling it a clear vote of “stay”, being found shockingly wrong when the actual count was announced.  So some people made a lot of money off of this and others lost a lot.  Something we see they like to do again and again to line their pockets in preparation for their next moves.
The above coupled with real questions on who the rulers of Britain actually answer to and who is running the place are highly pertinent when looking at the so-called claim of “independence day” coming from people such as Nigel Farage and others.  Independent from what one may wonder?  In reality who is running this game and is Brussels really such an unelected dark operation as some would suggest?
A little historical research is in order when delving into the question.   This article might be helpful in detailing the creation of the European Union.  
OSS, CIA and European Unity:  The American Committee on United Europe, 1948-60
RICHARD J. ALDRICH
www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/pais/people/aldrich/publications/oss_cia_united_europe_eec_eu.pdf
The European Union was the brainchild of the Nazis, conceived by Churchill, the OSS and CIA and encouraged by America during a time when the former Soviet Union (communism) was seen as a huge impending threat.
It appears that Britain is in fact run by and the headquarters for at least the Rothschild side of the Illuminati who themselves may be reporting to the Vatican / and Black Pope / Pindar and ET overlords… dominated by the Reptilians what is commonly called in certain circles the Luciferian Agenda.  As is the Bush Cabal — Rockefeller side dominated by the NSA/CIA counterparts.
Independence?  Hardly.  What begins to surface is an overall agenda that looks a lot more like herding sheep in a desired direction coupled with letting the ‘steam out of the kettle’ in order to placate some restive elements at least temporarily.
Keeping in mind they have 2 years to sort things out around this supposedly according to what is called Article 50 and can renegotiate the terms of their partnership with the EU culminating in a decision not to exit if they so choose.  At least according to the agreement as it currently stands.  And you have a lot of room for leverage to be applied from the City of London /  Illuminati side of things… which may result in a placing Britain in a more advantageous position.
Interestingly Henry Makow states that in reality, the much more strident and fascistic member of the EU  all along is Britain and not the European side of that equation.
henrymakow.com/2016/06/brexit-what-is-the-globalist-game.html
…”Last week Putin suggested that Cameron had called the referendum in order to “blackmail” the rest of Europe. The evidence for this theory is compelling. It should be remembered that for all their self-serving chauvinistic rhetoric, the British Neocons don’t dislike the EU on account of its control by corrupt transnationals and even more corrupt bankers: au contraire they want it to be even MORE controlled by these forces than it already is.”  – See more at: henrymakow.com/2016/06/brexit-what-is-the-globalist-game.html#sthash.KJxJczAk.zVJttwQg.dpuf
Brits rejoicing to be left on their own with their own dark, satanic overlords would do well to stop and consider the above before throwing caution to the wind.
This may also be a planned injection of chaos and concession before the notorious bait and switch tactics for which they are known.  We are, according to many of my sources and even much of the news out there, headed for a global currency reset and overhaul of the entire financial system worldwide.  We at Camelot were told their self imposed deadline for this is the end of 2016.
Can it be such a coincidence that Britain exits the EU just prior to this move?  Some would also toss in the anticipation of catastrophic earth changes said to be coming in 2017, due to the return of Planet X/ Nibiru or some other more manmade or human-ET orchestrated events there is reason to believe that both the U.S. and EU are about to undergo some great reshuffling and perhaps economic hardships.  What would an isolationist Britain stand to benefit by as a result of this sudden move in the face of global chaos?
Keeping in mind an overall agenda of NWO which has always been an overriding goal (one that even disparate elements within the so-called ruling families and their ET partners agree on)… and you have a recipe for ‘order out of chaos’ being put in play in a very premeditated way.
See my interview with Kameran Faily here:
PROJECT CAMELOT: ILLUMINATI DECLARE WAR & PLANET X 2016 – KAMERAN INTERVIEW TWO
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm65i1eQpCY
(He talks about separating London from England here:  02:33:55)
NOTE:  Kameran has an open invitation to do another interview anytime.  At the moment he is not coming forward.
And see all my other interviews with Kameran here:
KAMERAN FAILY INTERVIEW III : ISIS & EVENTS TO COME : PLANET X
www.youtube.com/watch?v=118atmcMMV8
PROJECT CAMELOT : KAMERAN FALLY – PLANET X & ASTRO-PLANETOLOGY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm65i1eQpCY

Source

The above article is from Project Camelot.  I like to look "behind the door" to see what could be going on. :smallwink:

I've heard some "insiders" say that the Brexit was needed as a first step to take the Cabal down.  If that's the case, then I see victory in sight.

Here is a podcast from Ground Zero with Clyde Lewis: LINK


Here is an article from Benjamin Fulford about this:

The real reason for the ongoing trouble in the European Union, including the recent vote by the British people to leave the bloc, is that the EU is bankrupt. We know in retrospect that the bankruptcy of the Soviet Union was the real reason the Warsaw pact fell apart, with Poland acting as the first domino. For the same reason, we can predict England was the first domino in the collapse of the European Union.

 Read the full article: LINK

[Armonica_Templar]

Cameron runs EU gauntlet after Brexit vote

View photos

Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron arrives for an EU summit meeting on June 28, 2016 at EU headquarters in Brussels (AFP Photo/Philippe Huguen)

More

Brussels (AFP) - Impatient European leaders pressed a humiliated Prime Minister David Cameron on Tuesday to speed up Britain's divorce from the EU, warning that the UK cannot expect special treatment outside the bloc.

Five days after Britons shocked the world by voting to leave the 28-nation EU, British domestic political chaos spiralled with the leader of the opposition Labour party losing a no-confidence vote but refusing to resign.

US President Barack Obama warned however against "hysteria" as stock markets and the pound staged a tentative recovery after days of losses that saw sterling slump to a 31-year low.

Cameron, at probably his last EU summit in Brussels before stepping down over the referendum result, is refusing to bow to pressure quickly to initiate proceedings to exit the EU.

Instead he is leaving it to up to his successor -- to be named on September 9 -- to trigger Article 50, the EU treaty clause that starts a two-year countdown until Britain's departure.

As he arrived for what is likely to be an awkward dinner with his counterparts, Cameron said the split should be "as constructive as possible" and that he wanted the "closest possible relationship" with Europe afterwards.

- Merkel warning -
But European powers are loath to give Britain an easy ride, insisting that negotiations on the future relationship cannot begin until it starts the divorce proceedings.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned Cameron could not "cherry-pick" in the exit negotiations -- and there would be a price for Britain to pay.
"It is important that we will negotiate only if the UK declares Article 50. There will be no informal or formal negotiations before," she said as she arrived in Brussels.

French President Francois Hollande warned that "the whole world has its eyes on Europe" as he pushed Britain to react so the union could move forward.
In a stern warning, European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said that he had banned Commission officials from having any "secret" talks with Britain before Article 50 was triggered.

And European Parliament President Martin Schulz said Cameron was "taking the destiny of our entire continent hostage purely for internal political reasons".
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte however showed some sympathy for Britain's predicament

"England right now is in the midst of a political, monetary, constitutional and economic crisis so it's not reasonable at the present time for them to trigger Article 50," Rutte said.

- EU after Brexit -
Britain's decision has also put the remaining 27 members of the EU under pressure to come up with an adequate response to prevent other countries following suit.

Germany, France and Italy have urged steps among the rest of the EU jointly to boost cooperation on security as well as programmes to boost economic growth and youth employment.

The 27 will meet without Cameron on Wednesday and EU President Donald Tusk proposed holding another summit in September.

The referendum result has caused an earthquake in British politics, claiming not only Cameron's scalp but also leaving opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn fighting for his political life.

On Tuesday, Corbyn lost a no-confidence vote among Labour MPs by 172 to 40, but remained defiant despite around 20 members of his shadow cabinet resigning.

"I was democratically elected leader of our party for a new kind of politics by 60 percent of Labour members and supporters, and I will not betray them by resigning," Corbyn said in a statement.

Jockeying has also begun within the Conservatives to replace Cameron, with key Brexit proponent Boris Johnson and interior minister Theresa May considered front-runners.

The winner may call a general election later this year.

Stock markets and the pound recovered on Tuesday from heavy losses, but investors remain spooked by the prospect of one of the EU's biggest economies leaving the bloc.

"None of the chaos induced by last Friday is anywhere near going away," Spreadex analyst Connor Campbell told AFP.

British entrepreneur Richard Branson on Tuesday said his Virgin Group had pulled out of a deal involving 3,000 jobs after Britain voted to leave the EU.
"When Brexiteers told the public that people were exaggerating that there would be a financial meltdown I think that it's been proven that they were not exaggerating," Branson said.

But European Central Bank chief Mario Draghi told the EU summit that the growth in the eurozone economy would only take a mild hit of around 0.3 to 0.5 percent over three years.

- Scotland goes to Brussels -
Late Monday, Standard & Poor's and Fitch both cut their credit ratings for Britain as a result of the referendum.

Both cited a possible second referendum on Scottish independence as a significant risk. Britain as a whole voted by 52 percent to leave the EU but 62 percent of Scots voted to stay.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she would travel to Brussels for talks on Wednesday, saying she was "utterly determined to preserve Scotland's relationship and place within the EU".

One happy man though was Nigel Farage, head of the UK Independence Party, telling a jeering European Parliament -- after a hug with old sparring partner Juncker -- that he has had the last laugh.

"When I came here 17 years ago and I said I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the EU, you all laughed at me," he said. "But you are not laughing now."

"The United Kingdom will not be the last member state to leave the European Union!"

Notice the tude from the other counntries and the choices of words

Uhm what if one country wanted to trade with the UK.. Are they NOT allowed to?

Wonder why Britian left??

[Armonica_Templar]

I do not even know where this one goes

Does it go here or in Propaganda

It’s Time for the Elites to Rise Up Against the Ignorant Masses

The Brexit has laid bare the political schism of our time. It’s not about the left vs. the right; it’s about the sane vs. the mindlessly angry.

I was born in 1954, and until now I would have said that the late 1960s was the greatest period of political convulsion I have lived through. Yet for all that the Vietnam War and the civil rights struggle changed American culture and reshaped political parties, in retrospect those wild storms look like the normal oscillations of a relatively stable political system. The present moment is different. Today’s citizen revolt — in the United States, Britain, and Europe — may upend politics as nothing else has in my lifetime.

In the late 1960s, elites were in disarray, as they are now — but back then they were fleeing from kids rebelling against their parents’ world; now the elites are fleeing from the parents. Extremism has gone mainstream. One of the most brazen features of the Brexit vote was the utter repudiation of the bankers and economists and Western heads of state who warned voters against the dangers of a split with the European Union. British Prime Minister David Cameron thought that voters would defer to the near-universal opinion of experts; that only shows how utterly he misjudged his own people.


Both the Conservative and the Labour parties in Britain are now in crisis. The British have had their day of reckoning; the American one looms. If Donald Trump loses, and loses badly (forgive me my reckless optimism, but I believe he will) the Republican Party may endure a historic split between its know-nothing base and its K Street/Chamber of Commerce leadership class. The Socialist government of France may face a similar fiasco in national elections next spring: Polls indicate that President François Hollande would not even make it to the final round of voting. Right-wing parties all over Europe are clamoring for an exit vote of their own.

Yes, it’s possible that all the political pieces will fly up into the air and settle down more or less where they were before, but the Brexit vote shows that shocking change isn’t very shocking anymore. Where, then, could those pieces end up? Europe is already pointing in one direction. In much of Europe, far-right nativist parties lead in the polls. So far, none has mustered a majority, though last month Norbert Hofer, the leader of Austria’s far-right Freedom Party, which traffics in Nazi symbolism, came within a hair of winning election as president. Mainstream parties of the left and right may increasingly combine forces to keep out the nationalists. This has already happened in Sweden, where a right-of-center party serves as the minority partner to the left-of-center government. If the Socialists in France do in fact lose the first round, they will almost certainly support the conservative Republicans against the far-right National Front.

Perhaps these informal coalitions can survive until the fever breaks. But the imperative of cohabitation could also lead to genuine realignment. That is, chunks of parties from the left and right of center could break away to form a different kind of center, defending pragmatism, meliorism, technical knowledge, and effective governance against the ideological forces gathering on both sides. It’s not hard to imagine the Republican Party in the United States — and perhaps the British Conservatives should Brexit go terribly wrong — losing control of the angry, nationalist rank and file and reconstituting themselves as the kind of Main Street, pro-business parties they were a generation ago, before their ideological zeal led them into a blind alley. That may be their only alternative to irrelevance.

The issue, at bottom, is globalization. Brexit, Trump, the National Front, and so on show that political elites have misjudged the depth of the anger at global forces and thus the demand that someone, somehow, restore the status quo ante. It may seem strange that the reaction has come today rather than immediately after the economic crisis of 2008, but the ebbing of the crisis has led to a new sense of stagnation. With prospects of flat growth in Europe and minimal income growth in the United States, voters are rebelling against their dismal long-term prospects. And globalization means culture as well as economics: Older people whose familiar world is vanishing beneath a welter of foreign tongues and multicultural celebrations are waving their fists at cosmopolitan elites. I was recently in Poland, where a far-right party appealing to nationalism and tradition has gained power despite years of undeniable prosperity under a centrist regime. Supporters use the same words again and again to explain their vote: “values and tradition.” They voted for Polishness against the modernity of Western Europe.

Perhaps politics will realign itself around the axis of globalization, with the fist-shakers on one side and the pragmatists on the other. The nationalists would win the loyalty of working-class and middle-class whites who see themselves as the defenders of sovereignty. The reformed center would include the beneficiaries of globalization and the poor and non-white and marginal citizens who recognize that the celebration of national identity excludes them.

Of course, mainstream parties of both the left and the right are trying to reach the angry nationalists. Sometimes this takes the form of gross truckling, as when Nicolas Sarkozy, who is seeking to regain France’s presidency, denounces the “tyranny of minorities” and invokes the “forever France” of an all-white past. From the left, Hillary Clinton has jettisoned her free-trade past to appeal to union members and others who want to protect national borders against the global market. But left and right disagree so deeply about how best to cushion the effects of globalization, and how to deal with the vast influx of refugees and migrants, that even the threat of extremism may not be enough to bring them to make common cause.

The schism we see opening before us is not just about policies, but about reality. The Brexit forces won because cynical leaders were prepared to cater to voters’ paranoia, lying to them about the dangers of immigration and the costs of membership in the EU. Some of those leaders have already begun to admit that they were lying. Donald Trump has, of course, set a new standard for disingenuousness and catering to voters’ fears, whether over immigration or foreign trade or anything else he can think of. The Republican Party, already rife with science-deniers and economic reality-deniers, has thrown itself into the embrace of a man who fabricates realities that ignorant people like to inhabit.

Did I say “ignorant”? Yes, I did. It is necessary to say that people are deluded and that the task of leadership is to un-delude them. Is that “elitist”? Maybe it is; maybe we have become so inclined to celebrate the authenticity of all personal conviction that it is now elitist to believe in reason, expertise, and the lessons of history. If so, the party of accepting reality must be prepared to take on the party of denying reality, and its enablers among those who know better. If that is the coming realignment, we should embrace it.

Holy F@#$ing S#$% !!!

Wow,  I put it here because it is spill over from Brexit

• BY JAMES TRAUBJUNE 28, 2016

No clearer mean can be extolled here

"Let them eat Cake."

NOTE:
This was created under fair use for the intent of shared information and debate

[guohua]

It goes here,,, they are spinning the World Will End!

[Ninurta]

Here's one that shows the average mentality of people today.

Angry Brits are demanding a re-run of the referendum following Friday's narrow decision
to leave the EU.

A petition calling for a second EU referendum has topped TWO MILLION signatures - more
than doubling the highest signed in parliamentary history.
The popular petition, which was started just one day ago, attracted so many signatures when
it first opened that the government's website crashed.

The enormous surge followed the initial 100,000 signatures which were created in a bid to get
London Mayor Sadiq Khan to declare the capital as independent.
Protesters are hoping that Khan will call for London to be classed separately from the UK and
therefore be able to apply to join the European Union.

SOURCE:

What isn't said is that only 35,000 are British signatures and 13,000 of them are French!
Think about that, a country decides via a ballot to do something and those who disagree
with the outcome demand that the country goes again... AND some of them don't even
live that country!!

But, the idea of creating a 'Vatican'-like capital for the sake of no getting one's own way in a
democratically-agreed ballot tells you a lot about today's society.

I had not heard about the French voters, but I DID hear that it was discovered that 30,000 votes on that petition came from a town of 800. I scratched my head a moment, and decided that I might need to go back to university for a refresher course in maths, because I'm certain now that I don't have a firm grasp on the "New Math".

The idea of demanding re-vote after re-vote until you get the results you want seems to be the going thing in 21st century politics. I blame that on the scientists of the 80's and 90's, because i witnessed them repeating experiment after experiment until they got the results they wanted to "prove" whatever the fad point of the moment was... they seem to have come up with the idea.

"Keep doing it until you get it right", eh? That saying was good enough for my math teacher in school (the one with those long, LONG legs!), so it's good enough for the 21st century, isn't it?

[Ninurta]

...What isn't said is that only 35,000 are British signatures and 13,000 of them are French.

I thought the French hated the British & visa versa...

They do, of course - that's exactly why they are trying to stack the deck against Britain and keep the British in EU-forged chains.

[BIAD]

They do, of course - that's exactly why they are trying to stack the deck against Britain and keep the British in EU-forged chains.

I've always stood by this quote because it's a good one.
'The likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to the intensity
with which others are trying to prove him wrong.'

[BIAD]

As seen from the link, protesters against the vote to leave the European Union came out in
their droves on Saturday with the unified call that the referendum didn't go the way they wished
and demand another one.
The BBC.

This type of 'It's not fair'-attitude after seeing democracy take place, also shines a light on how
current society has mutated from an animal that tends to enjoy it's hibernation in the cavern of
ignorance -into a petulant child-like creature that demands it's own way and calls it freedom of
choice.

Sadly, it's a global disease. A couple of generations that have been cotton-wooled in a false
environment of middle-class luxury and now, because their lives are strewn with straw-man,
negatively-spoken lableing techniques and the insecure need to win an argument at any cost,
to see the real action of free-will is something that undermines their cosseted existence.

Homeless people smell and foreigners are okay as long as they don't live next to me, this is
something that these protesters would never say because their warm comfortable world is so
out of reach of anyone struggling in society, the unwashed, ignorant people would never
stand a chance on getting on the same rung of the social ladder.
And that's the truth, an ugly truth that's buried deep in their core and to some, unknown yet.

You're asked to vote and it's agreed that majority succeed in a two-way decision.
There's no 'Yeah, but...' or 'What about my point of view...?' when a country is required to make
a serious decision.

This isn't a school-yard where choices are based on selfish needs, it's the real world and let's be
candid here, you're damned lucky to be even given the decision-making opportunity.

If any of the protesters looked up from their egotistical, materialistic-yearning lives and straighten
their frowned-features from realising that nobody is commenting on their Facebook page regarding
their valour of meeting up in the capital city, they'd see the leader of their querulous rally to have their
own way, just happens to be a millionaire.

Do you think Bob will be taking immigrants in?

If we accept that Governments around the world have a One-World agenda and that aliens are
whispering to our leaders... if we sometimes wonder if this reality really belongs to Lizard-people
and terrible clandestine plots take place with the mainstream media being gagged by a handful
of money, then surely the secretness and the guile level wouldn't have to be too high when attempting
these actions under the noses of the spoil brats that condone rallies such as these.

Grow up, for heaven's sake!
(...And lose the face-paint, huh? At least act like yer' serious.)

[BIAD]

What isn't discussed in the standard media circles is the out-right lying that went on
by both side of the EU referendum debate.

Sure, the idiot-MSM take shots at the £350 million promised from the weekly EU
payment going to the creaking National Heath Service that was daubed on the
'Brexit' bus, but that's about it.

So who was right and who was telling porkie-pies...?(Cockney-rhyming slang for lies)
They dare not say, the scribes of the news and Town Criers of the television... it's not
how we do things, it's just not cricket.

Politics is such a sleazy profession, huh?!

But every so often... EU a CIA Project.

[BIAD]

Here's an oldie-but-a-goodie from 2014 and shows the ridiculous lengths the
powers that reside in the EU will go to.

The super powerful vacuums you should Hoover up - before the EU bans them!

The Daily Mail.

[guohua]

BUMP  :smallimpatient: Yeah That's What I'm Doing!
OK, I'll have to wait for Gordis and BIAD Thoughts on these headlines.

Scotland Plans New Independence Referendum from U.K. Over Brexit

That's right.

LONDON — Scotland is drawing up plans for a vote on independence from the rest of Britain over Brexit, deepening the political fallout from the U.K.'s decision to quit the European Union.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said Thursday she would publish draft proposals for a new national ballot.
She told the annual conference of her ruling Scottish National Party that she wanted the bill in place to give her the possibility of calling another referendum before Britain is expected to formally leave the EU in March 2019.
Scots rejected independence by 55 to 45 percent in 2014, and opinion polls suggest there is still no clear majority in favor of a split.

I thought we had a thread on this before but I couldn't find it.

However, Britain's decision in June to quit the EU may shift attitudes in Scotland, which voted to remain in Europe in now faces losing access to the single market because the U.K. as a whole voted to leave.
Sturgeon said she would press ahead with a new referendum unless British Prime Minister Theresa May kept Scotland's membership of the European single market.
"I am determined that Scotland will have the ability to reconsider the question of independence and to do so before the UK leaves the EU if that is necessary to protect our country's interests," she said.

I'll attach the source so you all can read about this and see the chart.
Source

I don't know if it's a good idea or not, I don't live there and I don't know what their export or job futures look like.

[gordi]

BUMP  :smallimpatient: Yeah That's What I'm Doing!......

I don't know if it's a good idea or not, I don't live there and I don't know what their export or job futures look like.

Hi MrsG,

A very quick summary:
The political scene in the UK is dominated by England, because England has 10 times the population of Scotland (or Wales or N.Ireland).
The 2014 referendum on Scottish Independence came about because a large percentage of the Scottish population were less than pleased about continually being marginalised by the London-centric political systems in place at the UK parliament in Westmisnter (London).
At every major general election, you could completely remove the Scottish votes and it would make no difference whatsoever to the overall outcome of that election, despite Scots continually displaying very different voting patterns from the rest of the UK.
(In other words - It doesn't matter how the people of Scotland vote in UK elections or referendums, we ALWAYS get railroaded by the "majority" vote from England.)
This has led to a situation where the SNP (Scottish National Party) now hold 56 of the 59 Scottish seats at the UK parliament.

We are not anti-English or even anti-UK. We are simply fed up with not having a voice.
Our country is continually dragged in directions we don't want to go.
We even get dragged into illegal wars by a UK government that we didn't vote for!

There is a very strong suspicion that the 2014 Independence referendum was rigged in some way.
If you talk to people on the street or in the internet forums here... the vast majority seem to favour Independence.
Of the people that I know personally who have declared a preference one way or the other, the ratio is about 10:1 in favour of Independence!!
My gut feeling is that the true figure is probably around 70:30 in favour of Independence, but that was NOT reflected in the 2014 vote. I have NO IDEA where all the extra NO votes came from.

BREXIT is a f*cking disaster.
64% of Scots voted against it, yet here we are once again getting dragged in a direction that we don't want to go in.
Many of the people who voted to leave the EU did so on the back of a campaign of fear. Fear of Immigration and terror, created by those in power. The campaign wasn't based on factual information, it was dominated by fear mongering and mud-slinging and again I am gobsmacked that the overall vote was to Leave the EU. It came as quite a shock.

Maybe I am just "out of touch".

I am sick and tired of having no voice.
The majority of UK voters have apparently decided to leave the EU. Fair enough (if it wasn't rigged)
Most of those who voted to Leave have cited "control of our own destiny/borders" and "not being ruled from Brussels (EU)" as the main reasons for doing so...
Yet these same people SLATED the people of Scotland for stating almost the EXACT same reasons for wanting Scottish Independence from the UK.
They want "Independence" from the EU dragging THEM in a direction they don't want to go in (e.g. with Immigration, open borders etc)
But cannot see any logic in Scotland wanting "Independence" from the UK dragging us in directions that we don't want to go in (e.g. with Agriculture/Fisheries policies, Transport, Education, Defence, Immigration, etc etc)

In my opinion it's hypocritical at best.

Anyway, my fear is that Scottish "Indyref 2" will just fizzle out... I fear that we have just about given up.
"What's the point?" "They're never going to let it happen" etc.
The people are sick and tired of these referendums now, and they NEVER seem to go the way that we vote anyway????
Everyone is disillusioned. Deflated.

If Scotland had voted for Independence in 2014.
We would currently be negotiating our CONTINUED membership of the EU from within the EU, Independent of the UK.
Now, we are faced with being dragged out of the EU against our will, and then MAYBE voting for Scottish Independence from the UK... and then applying to re-join the EU from the outside... which would involve much more negotiations and penalties.

That's why there's talk of rushing through a 2nd Independence referendum sooner rather than later, but I fear that it's already too late as the UK are going to invoke the process for leaving the EU early next year, and once that's done Scotland will be in the horrible position of trying to organise an Independence referendum DURING UK negotiations to leave the EU, despite us wanting to stay!!!!

It's unbearable.

OK, enough for now.
(So sorry for the rant, but it drives me MAD!)

kindest regards,
G

[guohua]

I think you were getting your feeling of your Chest, Nothing to be Sorry About, Now I understand better and you feel like most of us here do, Our Votes Haven't Counted and our Laws are not being followed by those you are suppose to assure our safety and freedom, Open Borders and giving illegals Picture ID and Drivers Lic. are not Obeying Our Laws.

I understand, you want your Voice To be Heard For Your own Country and it Path, We Want our Country Back!

[BIAD]

...It's unbearable.

OK, enough for now.
(So sorry for the rant, but it drives me MAD!)

kindest regards,
G

I read and re-read your post and all I can say as a UK resident and someone not too-far
from Scotland -and yet, far away from London that I'm deemed English and I don't count
either, is...

You're right!

I would like to believe that the majority of English people voted to leave the European
Union because of the inherent failings Westminster have shown for the regions outside
of London and I agree with you that the referendum campaigns (from both sides) were
delivered in a low-brow manner.

Scotland has always had the sh*t-end of the stick when it comes to decision-making for
the UK and in a lesser-sense, the North-West and North-East of England. Wales and
Northern Ireland don't have a look-in either.

Isn't it strange that the further you are from the English capital -the crappier deal you
get? Maybe it's the change-over from heavy industry to banking that has something to
with it...? And by the way, where is the banking communities situated?

If I was to be fair-minded and a little naive, I would suggest that any hesitation offered
by Scottish voters in the Independence Vote may have come from the fact of the massive
loss of ship building and other heavy industries. This could have an effect on what would
be available to operate as an independent country.

But knowing what these money-grabbing, 'jobs-for-the-boys' bastards down here are
up to, I'd say that there's an amount of corruption going on to thwart the Scottish
people's wishes.

One's views are prominently formed by external information and is their any evidence
that the media are involved...? Who pays the BBC? Who owns the newspapers?
Where are the story-makers situated in the UK?

To be reluctant to leave the UK because the wish of independence is one thing,
but to be forced to agree to everything the UK does because of by-gone dealings is
another. And that's the grey-area where the English politicians want to play in.

It's still sadly, a tribal-thing.

[BIAD]

Here's an article from The Telegraph that shows -in my opinion, the subtle way a that the
media ridicule and down-play any serious views on corruption in regards of the Scottish
Independence Referendum.

'The SNP's very Scottish conspiracy...'

Christ, even the headline shout's 'tin-foil hat' straight out of the gate! So can we confirm
that this alleged conspiracy is 'very Scottish'?! I'll take it in good-faith that you don't actually
mean that Scotland has the monopoly on vote-rigging!
SOURCE:

'As its supporters insist that MI5 rigged the Scottish referendum, voting SNP now requires
faith in the unbelievable, says Andrew Gilligan.

With its tearooms and old-fashioned shops, the attractive town of Dunoon, in Argyll, seems
to epitomise Scottish moderation and common sense.
Making it sound quaint and therefore, mild and harmless... the manner of a minority.

But alongside the window displays of country wear and fresh mackerel, there are some much
weirder goods on offer...'

Weirder...?! Really? You've already took the p*ss with the 'window display/mackeral' comment
and yet, you still want to pile on the scorn that researchers of Area 51 are accustomed to!

But please, continue with your tongue-in-cheek description of a 1970's small Scottish village that
lies beyond the complex bureaucracy of domestic and foreign affairs. Maybe mention a chuckling
stream or the way the heather blows along a glen?!!

'...In the front window of Dunoon’s Scottish National Party campaign base, alongside posters
and canvassing information for the local SNP candidate, Brendan O’Hara, they’re displaying
for sale a new pamphlet which describes in detail how MI5 and John McTernan, chief of staff
to Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, “rigged” last year’s independence referendum by
creating thousands of fake No ballot papers.'

Well obviously it's a lie. Such a secretive act would be exposed by those who are elected
to make sure this kind of sinister plot could not happen. So... who would be watching in such
a cynical manner...? Who could be possibly doubting a fair exercise in democracy?

'...The authors, nationalist activists from Argyll, first suspected the existence of the “McTernan
Plan”, as they call it, on the night of the count...'

Oh I see, they're National Activists! We've named them...! Implying to the reader that there'
a certain 'sect' of people who may -because their title suggests, may have another agenda!
It's just a shame that nobody else believes in vote-rigging and also dare to think that it could
happen in a western, civilised nation.

'...Their “extensive canvass returns” had left them “confident of success” in the area, but when
the postal vote came in they were “astounded” to discover it was 70-30 against independence.

What’s more, the postal voter turnout in Argyll was 96.4 per cent. “We had never before heard
of such a high return in any democratic election,” they said...'

It could be nothing more than any research of the feelings in Argyll was wrong and since we
cannot confidently predict with certainty what people really think, we're left with the rational
and conformist view that everyone interested in the outcome was wrong.

'...The activists’ suspicions hardened when they learned that Mr McTernan, then a Labour
commentator, had appeared on TV four days before the referendum saying that “postal votes
are running very strongly towards No.”...'

I'll take that back, obviously there is a such a person!

'...“I couldn’t work out how it was possible to interfere on any scale with the postal ballot,” Andy
Anderson, one of the authors, told the Telegraph.
“You need the ballot paper number, the signature and date of birth of the voter.

Then it occurred to me. All that information went into a computer – and who’s at the other end of
the computer in London? MI5.”...'

And there you have it, the outcome was arrived at away from the original vote!
But come on... I mean, are you telling me that an agency of the 'English' Government subverted
a vote of another country to favour their masters?
Pakistan, Italy, Gabon, Korea and the USA, anyone?

The reality is that such acts are obviously secret and any interaction from the public with these
clandestine operations tends to only be shown in fictional books and movies.
Ergo, any claims that this occurs, opens up the claimant to comments that they're unable to
distinguish fact from fiction and this -to anyone reading or listening to a Journalist's interview
would be forced to believe it was all 'poppycock'... an english word meaning nonsense.

So to make sure the nails are firmly hammered into Mr. Anderson's coffin full of conspiracies,
the Journalist -Andrew Gilligan who's known for:
'Andrew Gilligan is London editor for the Sunday Telegraph.
He writes, among other things, about London, Westminster and politics.'
...explains how Andy Anderson must be incorrect.

'Rather more likely, of course, is that the Yes campaign’s canvas returns were wrong.
The overall No vote in Argyll and Bute was a convincing 58.5 per cent, on an 88.2 per
cent turnout, with the vast majority of votes cast in person.

Postal voters are often more conservative than in-person voters, since they are older
and more rural.
And postal vote turnouts are always higher than overall turnouts; those motivated enough
to apply for a postal vote are also more motivated to use it.

Mr McTernan’s foreknowledge is easily explained, too: though the postal votes were not
actually counted until referendum night, they were opened beforehand, with campaign
representatives present and able to peek at where people put their crosses.

The No margin of victory was almost 400,000 votes, so MI5 would have had to visit an
awful lot of postboxes.'

Yeah, that's why Mr. Anderson's claims must be wrong, huh?!
It's silly to think someone would act this way and therefore it's sillier to think these things.
The only crazier notion is to believe in them, so move along people... look, a celebrity!!

The saying that my quoted far above this post is still poignant when it comes to reading 
 counter-claim written in such an easy, cloyed manner.

'The likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to
the intensity with which others are trying to prove him wrong.'

[BIAD]

'US banks plan ahead for UK exit from EU'

'Wall Street banks are drawing up preliminary plans to move some London-based
activities to Ireland to address concerns that the UK is drifting apart from the EU.

People familiar with Bank of America, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley told the Financial
Times that they considered Ireland a favorable location for some of their European
business if they needed to move them out of the UK.
One said he was already planning to move some activities to Ireland.

The people said their plans were in most cases still at very early stages.
But they said the US banks had started preparing for the euro zone's impending
banking union that threatens to isolate Britain and, ultimately, for a possible UK 
exit from the EU...'
SOURCE:

[1984hasarrived]

I have applied for an Irish passport, waiting with fingers crossed :)

[gordi]

....
'...The authors, nationalist activists from Argyll, first suspected the existence of the “McTernan
Plan”, as they call it, on the night of the count...'

Oh I see, they're National Activists! We've named them...! Implying to the reader that there'
a certain 'sect' of people who may -because their title suggests, may have another agenda!
It's just a shame that nobody else believes in vote-rigging and also dare to think that it could
happen in a western, civilised nation....

Yup, yup and yup!

The actual authors of that piece were not Nationalists by the way!
It came from the "Labour for Independence" movement (Labour supporters who also wanted an Independent Scotland)
They saw very strange voting patterns which didn't match any of the canvassing, then looked a bit deeper.
The document referred to actually PROVES voter fraud.
There has never been an electoral turnout higher than about 80% in any domestic electoral vote. Never.
But here we are to believe that it was over 96%??
The Labour For Independence guys delved a bit deeper, looking at the Argyll constituency, the number of eligible voters, the number of Deaths recorded in the months between Election voter registration (for the postal votes) and the actual dates when votes were allowed to be cast, as well as the movement of people in and out of Argyll during that period...
Turns out... if you include the deaths and gross migration of eligible persons out of Argyll during the period in question... you don't even have 96% of the originally eligible voters still residing in Argyll!!!

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT OVER 96% OF THOSE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE ACTUALLY VOTED, BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T 96% OF THEM STILL THERE COME POSTAL VOTING or IN PERSON VOTING TIME!

[guohua]

DAMN   and I thought Our Political Process and How Influence What Was Bad Here  .
OH and @"1984hasarrived" good luck with that Passport.

[BIAD]

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT OVER 96% OF THOSE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE ACTUALLY VOTED, BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T 96% OF THEM STILL THERE COME POSTAL VOTING or IN PERSON VOTING TIME!

I hope you realise that my responses to that Telegraph article were heavy
with sarcasm?!

You know and I know that the vote was rigged.