(Relayed comments regarding claims from this link.)
These comments are a little disingenuous due to the circular-logic displayed within them. We've got to remember
that all information regarding the incident has been massaged over the decades and even back then, the media
gave the reader an impression where the timing made sense. When in reality, the logistics of producing news
in 1947 took over a day to be acquired, printed and distributed.
Considering the tight time-line involved here, there's no way it adds up, yet we should at least try to make sense
of what happened.
No.1. I agree and there's other photographs of debris -because we don't know if that material in the images
is the same stuff found at the Foster Ranch, that show other people in holding the reported remains.
It could be argued that the material Marcel is holding is different from what the other people are displaying, but
one would rationally agree that the foil-like substance in all the photographs are very similar.
No.2. This could be debated against due to the accepted narrative that observation and weather-balloons often
came down in that region in New Mexico and returned with the potential of a fiscal reward. For the weathering
effect on the neoprene -which is said to be the balloon material, sunlight degrades the colour after only a couple
of days.
One could possibly suggest Mac Brazel would recognise such an effect and support the idea his discovery was
merely a weather-balloon. If so, then why contact the Roswell Sheriff?
Since most scientific atmospheric experiments are performed or condoned by the military, it's sensible to suggest
that old damaged balloon wreckage that are discovered and would be brought to the Base. I mean, where else
would you take it?!
It's thin -I admit, but still viable.
No.3. This statement is irrelevant in one form as since it's accepted that such devices did crash on in the desert
areas around Roswell, logic would demand that in order to return the material for a reward, an authoritative location
would be sought that was connected to any aerial situation.
Where would an average person take the remains of a weather-balloon? A military air base.
No.4. RDR is the abbreviation for the Roswell Daily Record, the local newspaper reporting in the subject at the time.
Of course the photograph of Jesse Marcel published in that editorial is the same one shown on the website...!
That's where it originated from!
When Marcel was asked to pose with the debris by Blanchard (in Blanchard's office) for the media, he is reported
to have said that he didn't know of the press-meeting, although he was aware of the climb-down from a 'flying disc'
discovery narrative.
But others posed with the material, as the image below shows. Marcel is only in two of the photographs and only
due to his opinions given later, was the standard photograph used.
![[Image: attachment.php?aid=9549]](http://rogue-nation3.com/attachment.php?aid=9549)
No.5. The 'rods' with the alleged markings were spoken of by Mac Brazel and Major Marcel, yet they don't appear in
the photographs. However, in many of the written media descriptions that came with the 'Marcel' photo, wording like
broken beams are used and one might ask why the Reporters would put it in their articles if they didn't see them.
The answer could be that they were told what the wreckage consisted of and along with the display, could be massaged
into a certain narrative. If we say a balloon came down and here's the evidence, then why mention flying saucers?
Because the topic was trending in that area and at time and because an important figure in all of this (Blanchard) said so.
The Base Commander -Colonel William Blanchard, was the one who ordered the Public Information Officer Walter Haut
to draft a 'found-flying-disc' press release to the public. This official statement came out on Tuesday 8th July 1947 and
was carried in the local newspapers and other outlets.
As said, flying saucers were all the rage in the south-western region of the United States and this tends to be ignored
due to fortifying the narrative that a rancher, a military guy and his superior couldn't correctly identify sun-burnt balloon
debris, some weather-ravaged foil targets and low-frequency acoustic detection equipment..
Here's an example reported in the Texas-based Corsicana Daily Sun. The article is from 1st July 1947, six days before
the Roswell incident. Remember, the time needed to collect the information, produce and distribute the newspaper took
a couple of days -at least to get to the public and the vague accounts in the piece have no time reference.
![[Image: attachment.php?aid=9550]](http://rogue-nation3.com/attachment.php?aid=9550)
But what intrigues me is the way the narrative gets jumbled up!
Wikipedia says:
'...Some accounts have described Brazel as having gathered some of the material earlier, rolling it together
and stashing it under some brush.
The next day, Brazel heard reports about "flying discs" and wondered if that was what he had picked up.
On July 7, Brazel saw Sheriff Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he may have found a flying disc.
Another account quotes Wilcox as saying Brazel reported the object on July 6...'
They can't get the narrative correct because of the fluctuation in dates! The 6th would make it a Sunday and could be
problematic when looking at Journalists gathering information. Did Roswell Reporters work Sundays?!
The standard timeline runs like this:
The debris was reported to Sheriff Wilcox on the Monday (7th) by Brazel -although I believe it was on Sunday (6th).
There were accounts where it is said that Sheriff Wilcox instructed two deputies to go to Brazel's property to check the scene
of the incident and that they left 'early in the morning'. Since it's accepted that Mac Brazel woke early, did his chores around
the ranch and then visited Wilcox, it's then logical that the ordering of the two deputies' trip must have taken place the day
after Brazel notified the Roswell Sheriff?
That would move this whole situation into Monday 7th July or even worse... Tuesday 8th July 1947!
I'm thinking newspaper deadlines and production, here.
Now the busy Sheriff (and we haven't even discussed the late-night telephone call to Wilcox on Friday 4th July, where an assumed
aircraft had come down in the Capitan mountain area and he requested the Roswell Volunteer Fire Department to check it out)...
Sheriff Wilcox possibly guessing that the two events might be linked, calls the Army Air Base and relays what Brazel had shown
and told him.
The narrative continues that after perusing the material, Brazel sets out to the Foster ranch to retrieve the alleged 'unusual' wreckage.
Ignoring the deputy interaction, we could logically assume this was either on the Sunday or the Monday that the telephone call
was made, but let's be generous and go with the accepted narrative of Monday 8th July 1947. Like many people, it's assumed
that Marcel did drive out to the remote place and picked up the material and then returned back to the Base.
He did, but it didn't happen like that. If the material was obviously remains of a weather-balloon, then the story would've stopped there.
Instead, after the examination of the material, Marcel -with some of the material, returns to the base and reports to Colonel Blanchard
on what he has seen.
(Time is getting on, gentlemen... deadlines are approaching!)
Blanchard, convinced that he has in his possession something highly unusual, alerts the next higher headquarters and orders Marcel
to investigate further. Major Marcel returns to the sheriff's office with the senior Counter-Intelligence agent assigned to the base, Captain
Sheridan Cavitt. After locating Brazel at the Sheriff's office, they escort him back to his ranch to examine the debris field.
Gee, Mac Brazel had plenty of time on his hands for idling around on a work-day, unless this happened on Sunday.
It is often reported that a subordinate to Cavitt, Lewis William Ricketts, also accompanied the men to the debris field, but the standard
narrative misses this out. Too many players means too complicated a story for the public to accept. Later, Cavitt went back on the popular
literature of the incident and said he never accompanied the two men nor went to the debris field.
However, he admitted that he was at the Roswell Army Air Base around the time of the incident.
Marcel and Cavitt are there the rest of the day. and after walking the perimeter of the field and then range out looking for more details of
another crash site, they find nothing else. Finally they return spending the night in sleeping bags in the "Hines" house, an old ranch house
near the debris field, and having cold pork-and-beans and crackers for supper.
(See...? It must've been Sunday because we've now crossed over into Tuesday 8th July and even in the Wikipedia article, it has a clipping
from The Sacremento Bee and The Roswell Daily Record. Both dated as 8th July!)
![[Image: attachment.php?aid=9551]](http://rogue-nation3.com/attachment.php?aid=9551)
The next day, (we must cede to it being Monday), is devoted to collecting debris. Late in the afternoon they load the back seat and
trunk of Marcel's 1942 Buick convertible and then the Dodge-jeep carryall driven by Cavitt. Shortly after nightfall, they drove back to
Roswell.
This is where the account of Jesse Marcel Jnr comes in as he attested to his dying day that his father stopped by the house 'in the middle
of the night' woke him and his mother up to show Mrs. Marcel and the ten year-old boy stuff 'that was not of this earth'.
Now here's evidence that something really strange is going on regarding the finding of a messed-up balloon.
Scraps of the 'balloon' were seen probably on the 6th July by the Base Commander -Colonel William Blanchard, scraps so important
that he reports to the discovery to 'higher-ups' in the military sometime in the early-evening of the Sunday.
Supposedly, even before the rest of the material was acquired, he does this.
It's the middle of the night, the early hours off Tuesday 8th July and we'll assume Blanchard is awake and awaiting the arrival of the
wreckage. For the remains of a weather-balloon?!
Well, maybe the load of the two vehicles isn't looked at until the morning of Tuesday, but that same Wikipedia account states:
"Early on Tuesday, July 8, the RAAF issued a press release, which was immediately picked up by numerous news outlets.
The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group
of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation
of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County.
The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc
until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group
Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field
and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."
So we can rationally assume that Blanchard perused the material from the Sheriff's office, ordered Haut to type-up a release, notify
the media and send it (presumably by Telex -and assuming these media outlets had such equipment) out ready for that evening's
editions.
We don't know what the word 'early' refers to in the Wikipedia account means and have to accept that's how the speedy timeline
went. Also, 'loaned'... means it left the Roswell Base and travelled to Fort Worth where experts awaited to validate Blanchard's
announcement to the world.
For what was later discovered to be a weather balloon?
A view from a wider lens may say that there was far-more to this incident. It could be we're just getting a glimpse into a running
system that deals with something extraordinary and merely panel-beating the few pieces of information into a shape we can
understand.
It would make more sense if there was another incident occurring at the same time, but in a different nearby location. An incident
that the Base Commander knew full-well of and that was deliberately kept separate from the scraps Brazel found.
It wasn't a weather-balloon!
![[Image: attachment.php?aid=9552]](http://rogue-nation3.com/attachment.php?aid=9552)
Quote:Reality:
(1) The photo of Jesse Marcel is taken with a radar target and all the photos show the same debris!
(2) Further, there was no way for General Ramey to have gotten a non-pigmented weather balloon that had
been out in the sun for three weeks in that short of a time.
(3) Further, the Fort Worth AAF and Roswell AAF weren't using those weather balloons or targets so where
did he get one from anyway? They didn't even have the radars to use the targets with if they had managed
to get one.
(4) The debris in the photo of Jesse Marcel shows debris that matches what was described by Mac Brazel in
the RDR.
(5) "The newsmen saw very little of the real material, very small portion of it. And none of the really important
things like these members that had these hieroglyphics on them. They (the newsmen) wanted me to tell
them about it and I couldn't say anything.
(6) And when the General came in, he told me not to to say anything -that he would handle it." (UFOs are Real,
May 1979)
These comments are a little disingenuous due to the circular-logic displayed within them. We've got to remember
that all information regarding the incident has been massaged over the decades and even back then, the media
gave the reader an impression where the timing made sense. When in reality, the logistics of producing news
in 1947 took over a day to be acquired, printed and distributed.
Considering the tight time-line involved here, there's no way it adds up, yet we should at least try to make sense
of what happened.
No.1. I agree and there's other photographs of debris -because we don't know if that material in the images
is the same stuff found at the Foster Ranch, that show other people in holding the reported remains.
It could be argued that the material Marcel is holding is different from what the other people are displaying, but
one would rationally agree that the foil-like substance in all the photographs are very similar.
No.2. This could be debated against due to the accepted narrative that observation and weather-balloons often
came down in that region in New Mexico and returned with the potential of a fiscal reward. For the weathering
effect on the neoprene -which is said to be the balloon material, sunlight degrades the colour after only a couple
of days.
One could possibly suggest Mac Brazel would recognise such an effect and support the idea his discovery was
merely a weather-balloon. If so, then why contact the Roswell Sheriff?
Since most scientific atmospheric experiments are performed or condoned by the military, it's sensible to suggest
that old damaged balloon wreckage that are discovered and would be brought to the Base. I mean, where else
would you take it?!
It's thin -I admit, but still viable.
No.3. This statement is irrelevant in one form as since it's accepted that such devices did crash on in the desert
areas around Roswell, logic would demand that in order to return the material for a reward, an authoritative location
would be sought that was connected to any aerial situation.
Where would an average person take the remains of a weather-balloon? A military air base.
No.4. RDR is the abbreviation for the Roswell Daily Record, the local newspaper reporting in the subject at the time.
Of course the photograph of Jesse Marcel published in that editorial is the same one shown on the website...!
That's where it originated from!
When Marcel was asked to pose with the debris by Blanchard (in Blanchard's office) for the media, he is reported
to have said that he didn't know of the press-meeting, although he was aware of the climb-down from a 'flying disc'
discovery narrative.
But others posed with the material, as the image below shows. Marcel is only in two of the photographs and only
due to his opinions given later, was the standard photograph used.
No.5. The 'rods' with the alleged markings were spoken of by Mac Brazel and Major Marcel, yet they don't appear in
the photographs. However, in many of the written media descriptions that came with the 'Marcel' photo, wording like
broken beams are used and one might ask why the Reporters would put it in their articles if they didn't see them.
The answer could be that they were told what the wreckage consisted of and along with the display, could be massaged
into a certain narrative. If we say a balloon came down and here's the evidence, then why mention flying saucers?
Because the topic was trending in that area and at time and because an important figure in all of this (Blanchard) said so.
The Base Commander -Colonel William Blanchard, was the one who ordered the Public Information Officer Walter Haut
to draft a 'found-flying-disc' press release to the public. This official statement came out on Tuesday 8th July 1947 and
was carried in the local newspapers and other outlets.
As said, flying saucers were all the rage in the south-western region of the United States and this tends to be ignored
due to fortifying the narrative that a rancher, a military guy and his superior couldn't correctly identify sun-burnt balloon
debris, some weather-ravaged foil targets and low-frequency acoustic detection equipment..
Here's an example reported in the Texas-based Corsicana Daily Sun. The article is from 1st July 1947, six days before
the Roswell incident. Remember, the time needed to collect the information, produce and distribute the newspaper took
a couple of days -at least to get to the public and the vague accounts in the piece have no time reference.
But what intrigues me is the way the narrative gets jumbled up!
Wikipedia says:
'...Some accounts have described Brazel as having gathered some of the material earlier, rolling it together
and stashing it under some brush.
The next day, Brazel heard reports about "flying discs" and wondered if that was what he had picked up.
On July 7, Brazel saw Sheriff Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he may have found a flying disc.
Another account quotes Wilcox as saying Brazel reported the object on July 6...'
They can't get the narrative correct because of the fluctuation in dates! The 6th would make it a Sunday and could be
problematic when looking at Journalists gathering information. Did Roswell Reporters work Sundays?!
The standard timeline runs like this:
The debris was reported to Sheriff Wilcox on the Monday (7th) by Brazel -although I believe it was on Sunday (6th).
There were accounts where it is said that Sheriff Wilcox instructed two deputies to go to Brazel's property to check the scene
of the incident and that they left 'early in the morning'. Since it's accepted that Mac Brazel woke early, did his chores around
the ranch and then visited Wilcox, it's then logical that the ordering of the two deputies' trip must have taken place the day
after Brazel notified the Roswell Sheriff?
That would move this whole situation into Monday 7th July or even worse... Tuesday 8th July 1947!
I'm thinking newspaper deadlines and production, here.
Now the busy Sheriff (and we haven't even discussed the late-night telephone call to Wilcox on Friday 4th July, where an assumed
aircraft had come down in the Capitan mountain area and he requested the Roswell Volunteer Fire Department to check it out)...
Sheriff Wilcox possibly guessing that the two events might be linked, calls the Army Air Base and relays what Brazel had shown
and told him.
The narrative continues that after perusing the material, Brazel sets out to the Foster ranch to retrieve the alleged 'unusual' wreckage.
Ignoring the deputy interaction, we could logically assume this was either on the Sunday or the Monday that the telephone call
was made, but let's be generous and go with the accepted narrative of Monday 8th July 1947. Like many people, it's assumed
that Marcel did drive out to the remote place and picked up the material and then returned back to the Base.
He did, but it didn't happen like that. If the material was obviously remains of a weather-balloon, then the story would've stopped there.
Instead, after the examination of the material, Marcel -with some of the material, returns to the base and reports to Colonel Blanchard
on what he has seen.
(Time is getting on, gentlemen... deadlines are approaching!)
Blanchard, convinced that he has in his possession something highly unusual, alerts the next higher headquarters and orders Marcel
to investigate further. Major Marcel returns to the sheriff's office with the senior Counter-Intelligence agent assigned to the base, Captain
Sheridan Cavitt. After locating Brazel at the Sheriff's office, they escort him back to his ranch to examine the debris field.
Gee, Mac Brazel had plenty of time on his hands for idling around on a work-day, unless this happened on Sunday.
It is often reported that a subordinate to Cavitt, Lewis William Ricketts, also accompanied the men to the debris field, but the standard
narrative misses this out. Too many players means too complicated a story for the public to accept. Later, Cavitt went back on the popular
literature of the incident and said he never accompanied the two men nor went to the debris field.
However, he admitted that he was at the Roswell Army Air Base around the time of the incident.
Marcel and Cavitt are there the rest of the day. and after walking the perimeter of the field and then range out looking for more details of
another crash site, they find nothing else. Finally they return spending the night in sleeping bags in the "Hines" house, an old ranch house
near the debris field, and having cold pork-and-beans and crackers for supper.
(See...? It must've been Sunday because we've now crossed over into Tuesday 8th July and even in the Wikipedia article, it has a clipping
from The Sacremento Bee and The Roswell Daily Record. Both dated as 8th July!)
The next day, (we must cede to it being Monday), is devoted to collecting debris. Late in the afternoon they load the back seat and
trunk of Marcel's 1942 Buick convertible and then the Dodge-jeep carryall driven by Cavitt. Shortly after nightfall, they drove back to
Roswell.
This is where the account of Jesse Marcel Jnr comes in as he attested to his dying day that his father stopped by the house 'in the middle
of the night' woke him and his mother up to show Mrs. Marcel and the ten year-old boy stuff 'that was not of this earth'.
Now here's evidence that something really strange is going on regarding the finding of a messed-up balloon.
Scraps of the 'balloon' were seen probably on the 6th July by the Base Commander -Colonel William Blanchard, scraps so important
that he reports to the discovery to 'higher-ups' in the military sometime in the early-evening of the Sunday.
Supposedly, even before the rest of the material was acquired, he does this.
It's the middle of the night, the early hours off Tuesday 8th July and we'll assume Blanchard is awake and awaiting the arrival of the
wreckage. For the remains of a weather-balloon?!
Well, maybe the load of the two vehicles isn't looked at until the morning of Tuesday, but that same Wikipedia account states:
"Early on Tuesday, July 8, the RAAF issued a press release, which was immediately picked up by numerous news outlets.
The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group
of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation
of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County.
The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc
until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group
Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field
and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."
So we can rationally assume that Blanchard perused the material from the Sheriff's office, ordered Haut to type-up a release, notify
the media and send it (presumably by Telex -and assuming these media outlets had such equipment) out ready for that evening's
editions.
We don't know what the word 'early' refers to in the Wikipedia account means and have to accept that's how the speedy timeline
went. Also, 'loaned'... means it left the Roswell Base and travelled to Fort Worth where experts awaited to validate Blanchard's
announcement to the world.
For what was later discovered to be a weather balloon?
A view from a wider lens may say that there was far-more to this incident. It could be we're just getting a glimpse into a running
system that deals with something extraordinary and merely panel-beating the few pieces of information into a shape we can
understand.
It would make more sense if there was another incident occurring at the same time, but in a different nearby location. An incident
that the Base Commander knew full-well of and that was deliberately kept separate from the scraps Brazel found.
It wasn't a weather-balloon!
Edith Head Gives Good Wardrobe.