+- Rogue-Nation3 (https://rogue-nation3.com)
+-- Forum: The Conspiracy Corner (https://rogue-nation3.com/forum-35.html)
+--- Forum: UFOs, Aliens and Universal Questions (https://rogue-nation3.com/forum-38.html)
+--- Thread: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. (/thread-7642.html)
Pages:
1
2
Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
I've looked and looked again at this old favourite and since the day I first picked up the Berlitz and Moore paperback
in 1981, the incident has always intrigued me. But it's not the event or even the alleged cover-up by the US Army that
bothered me, it's the world-wide media's word-smithing of Bill Brazel's behavior when he first discovers the debris that
I find fascinating.
The many books and articles have created a scenario where officialdom of that time acted professionally and without
hesitation. There's no sleepy New Mexico town, summer-hot slowness and vague gossip of uninformed residents,
it's constantly pushed as a case of something happened, realised and acted upon by those who know how to keep
secrets.
Everyday-reality is forgotten for the urge of sensationalising a topic that is still currently not understood or even taken
seriously by the mainstream press. A guy is said to have found something in a desert, a working-class guy who knew
about lost weather-balloons and the possibility of a reward.
Instead of gathering the stuff up that was supposedly frightening his sheep -scaring them enough that they wouldn't
approach the waterhole and had to be steered around the debris field, it was originally accepted that the rancher
left the material out there for a whole month before reporting his find to the Roswell Sheriff, George Wilcox.
So from the 4th June 1947, maybe the fourteenth, possibly three weeks before the material was reported or even
a week before the newspaper articles in The Roswell Daily Record were displayed, it's taken for granted that Brazel
threatened his only income by allowing his sheep to go un-watered in temperatures that reached 87 degrees and
more at that time of the year.
The date moves to suit the narrative.
One narrative is the finding was on Friday 13th June, but Friday the 13th sounds cooky, so the incident is dropped
onto Saturday 14th. But whatever the exact date, Brazel doesn't find the supposedly unknown material important
enough to leave his maintenance of tending his stock, checking and repairing fencing and collecting water, and do
what the many books and articles relate.
So we wait, we wait until The Daily Record announces on Tuesday 8th July 1947, that an 'unknown' rancher found
some strange debris on his property and over the weekend, told the Roswell Sheriff and soon after, the Army had
had removed the stuff. It's said it was removed it on the 7th July to be exact and with the assistance of two army
intelligence officers.
One of the officers was Major Jesse Marcel Sr.
Now we have a quandary. Supposedly sensitive information derived from the idea that the Soviet Union had tested
an high-altitude atomic device -information vital enough that the fact-finding mission 'Project Mogul' was classified
top secret, now lay across the desert floor and nobody was looking for it.
There's no reports of searches from Roswell Army Airfield that surfaced in the years between 1947 and now, no
whistle-blower -which are many in the UFO circuit, who-knew-a-guy-who-knew-a-military guy who's orders were to
travel the dusty highways of that area for a downed Rawin-Sonde weather-balloon.
Not even Marcel or his commanding officer -Colonel William Blanchard say they knew of the operation or recovery.
But like most of today's media, the smaller points get left and only the banal all-embracing narrative is displayed.
Now it's nonchalantly stated that a patriot -Mac Brazel, found the strange foil and plastic-like stick-beams in the desert.
He dutifully reported his findings to the town's Sheriff and the nearby Army Base was contacted to clean up the remains
of a discovered weather balloon.
The convenient suspect.
It's in the lore that William 'Mac' Brazel was a foreman on the J.B. Foster ranch, a task that we -today, would indicate
some form of supervision or authoritative role. But in reality and due the fact that he had leased the ramshackled ranch
and land, he worked alone tending the sheep on the property and temporarily lived in the lonely abode that had no
running water, electricity or telephone.
Brazel was originally from Lincoln, New Mexico but had moved, lived and reared his family in the little town of Tularosa,
near Alamogordo, around a hundred miles from the site of the incident. Occasionally, he would drive out and visit his
wife -Maggie and his son and daughter -Vernon and Betty -respectively, in Tularosa and only on a couple of occasions,
Vernon returned with his father and stayed on the ranch.
The town of Roswell is firmly welded into the UFO story and yet, the nearest community to the Foster property is
Corona, thirty miles away. Why Roswell was branded with the incident is never debated, but one may assume it was
due to the population differences and the fact that later-events occurred there.
More of a probability is that the town of Roswell has a newspaper.
There's also an irony that Bill Brazel's Uncle was Jesse Wayne Brazel, the man alleged to have shot Pat Garret, the
famed lawman in 1908. However, it seems history hadn't quite finished with Brazel lineage yet!
Mac Brazel is reported to have stated that after a thunderstorm sometime in June of 1947 -and electrical storms
are common in that region in Summer, he rode out to check on the sheep the next morning and found the scattered
debris near where the flock were grazing. He is also reported to have said the sheep were fearful of the material
and wouldn't go near it. Some accounts suggest Bill's son was with him.
(Jump weeks ahead here!)
The accepted narrative continues that after taking a couple of the strange scraps and some wool in order to sell in
Roswell, a trip where Brazel's family suddenly-appeared in the account and rode with him in his dilapidated vehicle
the seventy-five miles to where he showed Sheriff Wilcox the material.
The Army is contacted, the discarded crap is picked up and RAAF public information officer Walter Haut issues a
press release stating that personnel from the field's 509th Operations Group had recovered a "flying disc", which
had crashed on a ranch near Roswell.
Quote:Tuesday 8th July 1947.
"The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office
of the 509th Bomb group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to
gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office
of Chaves County.
The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher
stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A.
Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell
Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."
After being flown out to Fort Worth Army Field, a Warrant Officer declares the 'disc that landed' is nothing more than
a balloon with an attached damaged scientific payload.
That's the official story and look, a squirrel!
...............................................
What's rarely said, are the facts. The Foster Ranch was eight miles away from it's nearest neighbour -the Proctors.
Floyd and Loretta Proctor were visited by Bill Brazel and told of the find. They supposedly advised him to tell the
authorities.
Sounds normal, but if the material was just a weather-balloon, would he really travel to the Proctors just to tell them
he couldn't burn the stuff or dent the foil-like substance with a hammer? Could there be another reason?
Another of those elusive facts is that Brazel actually discovered the debris on Saturday morning (5th July) and viewing
it, was accompanied by William D."Dee" Proctor, aged seven. Floyd and Lorretta's son.
That same day, Mac Brazel went to Corona to do some shopping in the afternoon, but there's no information that
the boy rode with him.
So it would make sense that the rancher -after finding the strewn material, took the young Dee Proctor back to his parents
on late-Saturday morning and mentioned the discovery. Then in the afternoon, he went to obtain his supplies in the nearest
town, Corona.
Not for the first time, Brazel dropped into the only bar in the small village -Wade's Bar and pool hall, and chatted to other
ranchers there. Listening to gossip regarding recent stories of UFOs in the Pacific Northwest, Arizona and nearby Williams,
Mac decides to visit the one place guaranteed to be open on a Sunday in Roswell.
The Sheriff's office.
But why...? Why suddenly feel the concern for cosmic security and with scraps of the stuff, drive all that way to tell Wilcox
what of he'd found -material that would finally be exposed as just a weather-balloon, and waste a perfectly-good Sunday?
I'm sure Maggie and the kids would be pissed!
Unless the debris was something he couldn't identify, something different from the other scientific balloons that came down
in that area over the years.
Another part of the narrative is that Brazel went to Roswell in order to sell wool. I've mentioned this before, but Mac didn't
sell his wool in town, the buyers who he contracted with came out to the ranch for the wool. However the mainstream media
like like to drag out the quote that Mac's son -Bill, has always said that if his father went to Roswell, it was possibly to purchase
a new or second-hand truck.
Trucks cost money and that was something Mac Brazel didn't have. Also, new Jeeps come from dealerships and there was no
dealership in Roswell or anywhere else until that year of 47. Would the small New Mexico town warrant such a new selling-point
that quick? Could a sheep rancher who leased land be able to afford a new off-road vehicle?
There's more, but the reality of whichever day that William Brazel came across the debris on his land has been altered and with
deliberate assistance from many authors and Reporters. Dates are changed back and forth and events moulded to fit.
But whatever the thin-face father of two found out there, did he believe he could trick everyone he knew that the material wasn't
a damaged weather-balloon?
Here's an example of what the media get up to. Note the date, 9th July... the Wednesday immediately after Brazel's supposed
visit to the Sheriff on Monday. Ignoring the title, the article speaks of Jesse Marcel's actions in his home and gives a description
of the material he was alleged to strewn across his kitchen floor.
Where did the Roswell Daily Chronicle get such time-sensitive information so quickly...? The full incident hadn't ended yet!
The word-smithing is obvious and construed to make the reader see that the finding was nothing more than a sun-dried, torn
and battered weather-balloon, a device with foil attached for climate-readings. Nothing to see here, folks.
But the final comment at the bottom of the article is poignant and Mac was correct to say it, the hassle was just too much
considering the shouting voices to the contrary. But it wasn't a weather balloon.
Quote:"Interview with Mac BrazelSOURCE:
Roswell Daily Chronicle, July 9, 1947..
W.W. Brazel, 48, Lincoln county rancher living 30 miles south east of Corona, today told his story of finding what the army
at first described as a flying disk, but the publicity which attended his find caused him to add that if he ever found anything
short of a bomb he sure wasn't going to say anything about it.
Brazel was brought here late yesterday by W.E. Whitmore, of radio station KGFL, had his picture taken and gave an interview
to the Record and Jason Kellahin, sent here from the Albuquerque bureau of the Associated Press to cover the story.
The picture he posed for was sent out over the AP telephoto wire sending machine specially set up in the Record office by R.
D. Adair, AP wire chief sent here for the sole purpose of getting out the picture and that of sheriff George Wilcox, to whom
Brazel originally gave the information of his find.
Brazel related that on June 14 he and 8-year-old son, Vernon were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J.B. Foster
ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up on rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather
tough paper and sticks.
At the time Brazel was in a hurry to get his round made and he did not pay much attention to it. But he did remark about what
he had seen and on July 4 he, his wife, Vernon, and a daughter Betty, age 14, went back to the spot and gathered up quite a
bit of the debris.
The next day he first heard about the flying disks, and he wondered if what he had found might be the remnants of one of these.
Monday he came to town to sell some wool and while here he went to see sheriff George Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential
like" that he might have found a flying disk.
Wilcox got in touch with the Roswell Army Air Field and Maj. Jesse A. Marcel and a man in plain clothes accompanied him home,
where they picked up the rest of the pieces of the "disk" and went to his home to try to reconstruct it. According to Brazel they simply
could not reconstruct it at all. They tried to make a kite out of it, but could not do that and could not find any way to put it back together
so that it would fit.
Then Major Marcel brought it to Roswell and that was the last he heard of it until the story broke that he had found a flying disk.
Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up, so he did not know the size or shape it
might have been, but he thought it might have been about as large as a table top.
The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size
of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.
When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while
the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed
maybe five pounds.
There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind,
although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument,
although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used
in the construction.
No strings or wire were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.
Brazel said that he had previously found two weather balloons on the ranch, but that what he found this time did not in any way resemble
either of these.
"I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said. "But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to
have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."..."
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
(Relayed comments regarding claims from this link.)
Quote:Reality:
(1) The photo of Jesse Marcel is taken with a radar target and all the photos show the same debris!
(2) Further, there was no way for General Ramey to have gotten a non-pigmented weather balloon that had
been out in the sun for three weeks in that short of a time.
(3) Further, the Fort Worth AAF and Roswell AAF weren't using those weather balloons or targets so where
did he get one from anyway? They didn't even have the radars to use the targets with if they had managed
to get one.
(4) The debris in the photo of Jesse Marcel shows debris that matches what was described by Mac Brazel in
the RDR.
(5) "The newsmen saw very little of the real material, very small portion of it. And none of the really important
things like these members that had these hieroglyphics on them. They (the newsmen) wanted me to tell
them about it and I couldn't say anything.
(6) And when the General came in, he told me not to to say anything -that he would handle it." (UFOs are Real,
May 1979)
These comments are a little disingenuous due to the circular-logic displayed within them. We've got to remember
that all information regarding the incident has been massaged over the decades and even back then, the media
gave the reader an impression where the timing made sense. When in reality, the logistics of producing news
in 1947 took over a day to be acquired, printed and distributed.
Considering the tight time-line involved here, there's no way it adds up, yet we should at least try to make sense
of what happened.
No.1. I agree and there's other photographs of debris -because we don't know if that material in the images
is the same stuff found at the Foster Ranch, that show other people in holding the reported remains.
It could be argued that the material Marcel is holding is different from what the other people are displaying, but
one would rationally agree that the foil-like substance in all the photographs are very similar.
No.2. This could be debated against due to the accepted narrative that observation and weather-balloons often
came down in that region in New Mexico and returned with the potential of a fiscal reward. For the weathering
effect on the neoprene -which is said to be the balloon material, sunlight degrades the colour after only a couple
of days.
One could possibly suggest Mac Brazel would recognise such an effect and support the idea his discovery was
merely a weather-balloon. If so, then why contact the Roswell Sheriff?
Since most scientific atmospheric experiments are performed or condoned by the military, it's sensible to suggest
that old damaged balloon wreckage that are discovered and would be brought to the Base. I mean, where else
would you take it?!
It's thin -I admit, but still viable.
No.3. This statement is irrelevant in one form as since it's accepted that such devices did crash on in the desert
areas around Roswell, logic would demand that in order to return the material for a reward, an authoritative location
would be sought that was connected to any aerial situation.
Where would an average person take the remains of a weather-balloon? A military air base.
No.4. RDR is the abbreviation for the Roswell Daily Record, the local newspaper reporting in the subject at the time.
Of course the photograph of Jesse Marcel published in that editorial is the same one shown on the website...!
That's where it originated from!
When Marcel was asked to pose with the debris by Blanchard (in Blanchard's office) for the media, he is reported
to have said that he didn't know of the press-meeting, although he was aware of the climb-down from a 'flying disc'
discovery narrative.
But others posed with the material, as the image below shows. Marcel is only in two of the photographs and only
due to his opinions given later, was the standard photograph used.
No.5. The 'rods' with the alleged markings were spoken of by Mac Brazel and Major Marcel, yet they don't appear in
the photographs. However, in many of the written media descriptions that came with the 'Marcel' photo, wording like
broken beams are used and one might ask why the Reporters would put it in their articles if they didn't see them.
The answer could be that they were told what the wreckage consisted of and along with the display, could be massaged
into a certain narrative. If we say a balloon came down and here's the evidence, then why mention flying saucers?
Because the topic was trending in that area and at time and because an important figure in all of this (Blanchard) said so.
The Base Commander -Colonel William Blanchard, was the one who ordered the Public Information Officer Walter Haut
to draft a 'found-flying-disc' press release to the public. This official statement came out on Tuesday 8th July 1947 and
was carried in the local newspapers and other outlets.
As said, flying saucers were all the rage in the south-western region of the United States and this tends to be ignored
due to fortifying the narrative that a rancher, a military guy and his superior couldn't correctly identify sun-burnt balloon
debris, some weather-ravaged foil targets and low-frequency acoustic detection equipment..
Here's an example reported in the Texas-based Corsicana Daily Sun. The article is from 1st July 1947, six days before
the Roswell incident. Remember, the time needed to collect the information, produce and distribute the newspaper took
a couple of days -at least to get to the public and the vague accounts in the piece have no time reference.
But what intrigues me is the way the narrative gets jumbled up!
Wikipedia says:
'...Some accounts have described Brazel as having gathered some of the material earlier, rolling it together
and stashing it under some brush.
The next day, Brazel heard reports about "flying discs" and wondered if that was what he had picked up.
On July 7, Brazel saw Sheriff Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he may have found a flying disc.
Another account quotes Wilcox as saying Brazel reported the object on July 6...'
They can't get the narrative correct because of the fluctuation in dates! The 6th would make it a Sunday and could be
problematic when looking at Journalists gathering information. Did Roswell Reporters work Sundays?!
The standard timeline runs like this:
The debris was reported to Sheriff Wilcox on the Monday (7th) by Brazel -although I believe it was on Sunday (6th).
There were accounts where it is said that Sheriff Wilcox instructed two deputies to go to Brazel's property to check the scene
of the incident and that they left 'early in the morning'. Since it's accepted that Mac Brazel woke early, did his chores around
the ranch and then visited Wilcox, it's then logical that the ordering of the two deputies' trip must have taken place the day
after Brazel notified the Roswell Sheriff?
That would move this whole situation into Monday 7th July or even worse... Tuesday 8th July 1947!
I'm thinking newspaper deadlines and production, here.
Now the busy Sheriff (and we haven't even discussed the late-night telephone call to Wilcox on Friday 4th July, where an assumed
aircraft had come down in the Capitan mountain area and he requested the Roswell Volunteer Fire Department to check it out)...
Sheriff Wilcox possibly guessing that the two events might be linked, calls the Army Air Base and relays what Brazel had shown
and told him.
The narrative continues that after perusing the material, Brazel sets out to the Foster ranch to retrieve the alleged 'unusual' wreckage.
Ignoring the deputy interaction, we could logically assume this was either on the Sunday or the Monday that the telephone call
was made, but let's be generous and go with the accepted narrative of Monday 8th July 1947. Like many people, it's assumed
that Marcel did drive out to the remote place and picked up the material and then returned back to the Base.
He did, but it didn't happen like that. If the material was obviously remains of a weather-balloon, then the story would've stopped there.
Instead, after the examination of the material, Marcel -with some of the material, returns to the base and reports to Colonel Blanchard
on what he has seen.
(Time is getting on, gentlemen... deadlines are approaching!)
Blanchard, convinced that he has in his possession something highly unusual, alerts the next higher headquarters and orders Marcel
to investigate further. Major Marcel returns to the sheriff's office with the senior Counter-Intelligence agent assigned to the base, Captain
Sheridan Cavitt. After locating Brazel at the Sheriff's office, they escort him back to his ranch to examine the debris field.
Gee, Mac Brazel had plenty of time on his hands for idling around on a work-day, unless this happened on Sunday.
It is often reported that a subordinate to Cavitt, Lewis William Ricketts, also accompanied the men to the debris field, but the standard
narrative misses this out. Too many players means too complicated a story for the public to accept. Later, Cavitt went back on the popular
literature of the incident and said he never accompanied the two men nor went to the debris field.
However, he admitted that he was at the Roswell Army Air Base around the time of the incident.
Marcel and Cavitt are there the rest of the day. and after walking the perimeter of the field and then range out looking for more details of
another crash site, they find nothing else. Finally they return spending the night in sleeping bags in the "Hines" house, an old ranch house
near the debris field, and having cold pork-and-beans and crackers for supper.
(See...? It must've been Sunday because we've now crossed over into Tuesday 8th July and even in the Wikipedia article, it has a clipping
from The Sacremento Bee and The Roswell Daily Record. Both dated as 8th July!)
The next day, (we must cede to it being Monday), is devoted to collecting debris. Late in the afternoon they load the back seat and
trunk of Marcel's 1942 Buick convertible and then the Dodge-jeep carryall driven by Cavitt. Shortly after nightfall, they drove back to
Roswell.
This is where the account of Jesse Marcel Jnr comes in as he attested to his dying day that his father stopped by the house 'in the middle
of the night' woke him and his mother up to show Mrs. Marcel and the ten year-old boy stuff 'that was not of this earth'.
Now here's evidence that something really strange is going on regarding the finding of a messed-up balloon.
Scraps of the 'balloon' were seen probably on the 6th July by the Base Commander -Colonel William Blanchard, scraps so important
that he reports to the discovery to 'higher-ups' in the military sometime in the early-evening of the Sunday.
Supposedly, even before the rest of the material was acquired, he does this.
It's the middle of the night, the early hours off Tuesday 8th July and we'll assume Blanchard is awake and awaiting the arrival of the
wreckage. For the remains of a weather-balloon?!
Well, maybe the load of the two vehicles isn't looked at until the morning of Tuesday, but that same Wikipedia account states:
"Early on Tuesday, July 8, the RAAF issued a press release, which was immediately picked up by numerous news outlets.
The many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomb group
of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation
of one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves County.
The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc
until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office, who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group
Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell Army Air Field
and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."
So we can rationally assume that Blanchard perused the material from the Sheriff's office, ordered Haut to type-up a release, notify
the media and send it (presumably by Telex -and assuming these media outlets had such equipment) out ready for that evening's
editions.
We don't know what the word 'early' refers to in the Wikipedia account means and have to accept that's how the speedy timeline
went. Also, 'loaned'... means it left the Roswell Base and travelled to Fort Worth where experts awaited to validate Blanchard's
announcement to the world.
For what was later discovered to be a weather balloon?
A view from a wider lens may say that there was far-more to this incident. It could be we're just getting a glimpse into a running
system that deals with something extraordinary and merely panel-beating the few pieces of information into a shape we can
understand.
It would make more sense if there was another incident occurring at the same time, but in a different nearby location. An incident
that the Base Commander knew full-well of and that was deliberately kept separate from the scraps Brazel found.
It wasn't a weather-balloon!
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
The problem with an account from over seventy years-ago, is that the many narratives transform the view of the overall
paradigm and the kernel becomes buried under the unconscious-bias that we're all guilty of.
For the average onlooker, the Roswell story involved an ignorant rancher finding some strange material on his land and
being a dutiful patriot, contacted his local sheriff that passed on the information to the Army.
After an alarming announcement that was quickly corrected, the Army says the dumb-assed cowboy couldn't tell a balloon
from a spaceship and we should all go back to ploughing the fields and sticking labels of tins.
Dates and locations are discarded in order to display the authoritative and calming the narrative that the world will keep
turning and if the silly notion of a men-from-Mars ever came true, then the military have got your back.
Restraining one's modern perception of our world and it works, looking into the 1947 story needs a steady line of sight and
an attention to how trust in those same powers wasn't as eroded as it is these days. Class is also a factor and the gulf between
the cultural levels of the time -certainly in a well-developed country like the USA, were viewed far different from the way we do
today.
The current global outlook has ironically blindfolded us to the simplicity of 'small-dom', the natural beat in a community where
wild imaginings are stunted for the sake of making a living. Hardheaded men and women getting on with their lives and letting
one day merge into the next because their focus were on the standard goals of a society, real family-orientated goals.
Anyway, within that trust of '47 and the sense of victory from a war, Roswell, New Mexico ticked under the desert sun and a small
story that was quickly forgotten. It took another thirty years before that mysterious tale was reawakened, but by then, our view on
the world had changed.
So with my best Joe Friday impression in my pocket, I'll try to keep to the facts.
Please forgive me for going over a little of what I may have already written.
.....................................................
From the previous writings, I noted that William 'Mac' Brazel found the bits of foil and unbreakable sticks on the Foster Ranch
on the accepted date of the June 14th 1947 -a Saturday. As often mentioned, Bill's sheep were too-scared to approach the area
and this was having an effect on their access to a waterhole.
This could be just due to the sunlight reflecting off silver foil and the breeze wafting the paper-thin material, a natural presumption
that Brazel could realise and appreciate. But since this could be a reality, why not just spend some time clearing away the material
and filling in the gouge that was supposed to be there? Maybe the debris field was wider than we may presume, some estimates
place it as three-quarters of a mile long and two to three hundred feet wide.
The gouge was said to start at the northern end of it and extend to four or five hundred feet toward the other end of the debris field.
It's in the lore that on 8th Juy, Mac reported his findings to Sheriff Wilcox of Roswell and from there, up to the Army Air force Base.
But if Brazel was dealing with his frightened sheep avoiding the area on the way to the watering-hole, why would he wait so long
to fix the problem?
After all, its just pieces of a weather-balloon.
The Wikipedia article states:
"On June 14, 1947, William Brazel, a foreman working on the J.B. Foster ranch, noticed clusters of debris approximately
30 miles (50 km) north of Roswell, New Mexico. This date—or "about three weeks" before July 8—appeared in later stories
featuring Brazel, but the initial press release from the Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF) said the find was "sometime last week",
suggesting Brazel found the debris in early July.
Brazel told the Roswell Daily Record that he and his son saw a "large area of bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil,
a rather tough paper and sticks." He paid little attention to it but returned on July 4 with his son, wife and daughter to gather up
the material.
Some accounts have described Brazel as having gathered some of the material earlier, rolling it together and stashing it under
some brush.
The next day, Brazel heard reports about "flying discs" and wondered if that was what he had picked up.
On July 7, Brazel saw Sheriff Wilcox and "whispered kinda confidential like" that he may have found a flying disc.
Another account quotes Wilcox as saying Brazel reported the object on July 6..."
As it stands, the narrative seems to make sense.
Wreckage found and and after clearing up the mess with his family, Brazel hears that flying discs are the new craze and decides
to report the stuff he'd found to the authorities. For a month, the remains of an almost mundane weather-balloon -equipment
that often came down in that area, lay under a bush or at least out of the view of the scared sheep and treated in the manner
of something uninteresting.
Uninteresting and nobody was looking for it.
Then why drive the thirty miles to Roswell and tell Sheriff Wilcox you might have the remains of one of those discs stashed under
some bushes? Well, as his son suggested later in life, Mac Brazel may have been visiting the town to look for a replacement for
his jeep.
Again, the timing doesn't seem odd if we view the situation as being a casual mention to a Sheriff that he had a weather-balloon
on his land, but if Brazel believed it was fragments of a flying disc, what would cause the delay of an assumed important find?
Mac did produce some of the pieces to the Sheriff -a dodgy act, if the rancher was trying to trick Wilcox into believing the scraps
belonged to a other-worldly vehicle and solely based on the idea that the Sheriff had never seen a weather-balloon before.
Ignoring the drudgery of steering sheep away from the material for the sake of keeping them alive, the Wikipedia article states
that it wasn't until 4th July (Friday) -a day of celebration in the US and twenty days later from the standard initial discovery, that
Brazel's family travelled the over-one hundred miles from Tularosa to pick up the pieces of the supposed balloon.
Why the delay from the discovery -(14th June)? The family tidying-up the stuff -(4th July)?
Brazel's visit to the Sheriff's office (7th July)?
Well... let's change the narrative for a moment and attempt to reassemble the timeline so it would make more sense to a passerby.
The dates and the locations only need a slight nudge, but by doing so, it changes the calibre of the situation and pushes the
importance of the material and the rancher's realisation of what he'd found into a more serious position
First off, the date of discovery. If the June date was true, that meant Brazel tolerated the daily mile-around trip for his sheep and
never bothered attempting to clear the discarded material from his herd's regular route to the waterhole. His curiosity wasn't aroused
and the interpretation for this might be that the scraps of foil-like substance were merely of a downed weather-balloon, of a device
he'd seen before.
Maybe it's not a problem and twenty days later, he asks his family to come over -or more likely, he drove his jeep to Tularosa and then
returned to the ranch with them in order to -not only enjoy the three-day-weekend celebrations of the United States independence out
in the New Mexico scrub-land, but wander the wide debris field and pick up some trash that was scaring the sheep for almost a month.
Mac really loved his family!
My Suggested Change Of Narrative:
On Saturday 5th July and after any possible Independence Day celebrations, Mac Brazel -accompanied by his neighbour's son,
seven-year-old Billy-Dee Proctor, rode the Foster property, checking its condition and monitoring the rancher's stock.
Being the weekend and not a school-day, the pair come across the frightened sheep and some strewn weird material.
Brazel and the kid move some of the stuff out of the way to let the sheep water and during the clearing, discover unusual
properties of the material.
The sheep still won't approach the waterhole via the area where that material laid and an alleged gouge on the soil also resided.
Mac and Dee steer the sheep around the troubling location that involves a wide detour.
Taking the young boy back to his parents, Brazel relates to Floyd and Lorretta Proctor his excitement of the strange material that
he'd found and Dee's parents advise Mac that he should notify the authorities. He agrees.
The rancher then proceeds to the nearest town -Corona, for supplies on the Saturday afternoon and whilst wetting his whistle in
the town's only drinking establishment, hears his Uncle and some other ranchers talking about Kenneth Arnold's encounter with
nine shiny unidentified flying objects flying past Mount Rainier in the Pacific North-West.
The gossip may have included the recent disc-sightings near Williams, Arizona too.
With the term 'flying saucer' still a new catchphrase due to a Reporter's miss-wording of Arnold's account, Mac Brazel wonders if the
bizarre material he'd found that morning might have some connection to these things and so, rises early on Sunday morning, grabs a
handful of the foil-like elements, clears his chores and drives to the only place open on a Sunday, the Sheriff's office. (Sunday 6th July)
After examining Mac Brazel's offerings, Wilcox contacts the Army Base and piques enough interest that Major Jesse Marcel and two
other officers drive to the Sheriff's office and investigate the situation. Taking some of the alleged weather-balloon debris, the three
officers return to the base and show their superior -Colonel William Blanchard.
Col. Blanchard orders them (it's still Sunday 6th) to investigate further and the trio, Marcel, Cavitt and Rickett drive back in two vehicles
to Wilcox's office, pick up Mac Brazel and set-off for the Foster Ranch. Marcel was in his 1942 Buick convertible, Brazel in his jeep and
Cavitt and Rickett were in a Dodge-Jeep Carryall.
After checking the full range of the area where the debris was scattered, they spent Sunday evening at the Foster ranch and stayed
overnight at the abandoned Hines house. (For a downed weather-balloon?!)
Monday 7th July 1947. The three officers comb the scrub for the last of the debris and load both of their vehicles with the remains.
As the desert evening wears on, they call it a day -or actually a day-and-a-half of picking bits of a weather-balloon up from the hot
desert floor, and return to the Army Air Force Base.
Major Marcel takes a detour to explain his absence to his family and show his son what we're told is balloon scraps in the early hours
of Tuesday 8th July. At 930.am. that same morning, RAAF public information officer Walter Haut issues a press release stating that
personnel from the field's 509th Operations Group had recovered a "flying disc", which had crashed on a ranch near Roswell.
The rest -as they say, is history.
.....................................................
It's not a bad theory and has merit due to the steady beat. Someone finds something unusual, reports it to authorities for whatever
reasons and the system takes over that. Mistakes are made, corrected and life goes on. Simple.
But there's other parts that rarely get mentioned because of their hindrance to the standard narrative. Apart from the dates, Brazel's
'arrest' by the military for over a week and his radio-broadcasted recanting of his story goes unchallenged and how during the account,
the rancher drops off the radar during the search and transfer of the debris from the Foster property.
Yes, there are questions unanswered.
Why blur the dating of when the wreckage was discovered? What difference does it make when Mac found the stuff and when he
reported it? His later broadcast of how he'd mistakenly identified the material and confused the dates -via encouragement
from the interrogation, seems to tell us that whatever happened on the ranch, when it occurred was more important.
Did something else happen at the beginning of July three-day weekend of 1947 that could be attached to the debris-discovery of
Saturday morning 5th? Something that would purposely slow or ruin the narrative beat? If we imagine that the account is weeks old
and valuable investigation time has passed, then would a Reporter bother looking into it or just take what the military gave them?
If it was the remains of a flying disc and the amount of material didn't make up -what we'd assume would be a full a machine,
why did Col. Blanchard charge ahead and have the press announcement released?
Did he know of a real downed flying disc in another location...? Was he aware that by focusing on the Foster Ranch situation and
boasting that a 'out-of-this-world' craft had been acquired, he was distracting the public and the media from somewhere possibly
more sensitive?
Could Bill 'Mac' Brazel afford a new Jeep...? He certainly enjoyed one after the whole flying-saucer-weather-balloon debacle.
Who purchased that for him and what was the real cost...? A reversal of what he'd originally said?
Shall we take a look?!!
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
There was a bit of a run-up to Brazel's discovery on the desert floor and it began on Wednesday evening 2nd July 1947.
What information available -at best, is dubious regarding close contact with what many believe was a second crash site.
But there were observations of something on the suggested evening of Brazel's find.
Up to now, we have a rancher who finds some stuff he's not sure about in a region where nuclear devices are created,
rocket tests are performed and where weather-balloons are used to obtain scientific information. The trendy topic of flying
saucers was in the local media and maybe Mac Brazel thought his fifteen-minutes of fame may be scattered on the desert
floor before him.
.................................................
Friday, 4th July 1947.
Dan Wilmot and his wife -residents of Roswell, were enjoying the cool evening on their porch when at around 10.00.pm,
they observed a large circular object "like two inverted saucers faced mouth to mouth" zoom out of the southeast, and
travelling in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed.
Wilmot also said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time.
The whole incident lasted between perhaps 40 or 50 seconds.
I've always puzzled at this account due to Kenneth Arnold's earlier sighting in late June where he described the nine objects
flying near Mount Ranier -Washington State as: "half-moon shaped, oval in front and convex in the rear". It was when he
further explained their motion as: "like a saucer skipping across water" that the term flying saucer was born from the avid
news Reporters.
Then there's two Catholic nuns said to be Mother Superior Mary Bernadette and a Sister Capistrano, reported seeing a
bright fiery object appear to go to the ground well to the west and slightly north of Roswell.
It was late in the evening of Friday -4th July around 11.00.pm and looking out a third floor window of the now demolished
Saint Mary's Hospital during their shift-change, the two nuns observed the ball of flames disappear out of sight.
Mother Superior Mary Bernadette and a Sister Capistrano later recorded the incident in their logbook.
There's also the tale of Jim Ragsdale and his amorous behavior in his car/jeep/pickup truck. His account -which is full of
holes, supposedly took place on 4th July, but his credibility and change of details has no relevance here.
Then there's this classic narrative where names of the characters are still to this day, argued about.
The point I'm trying to show is that if a second crash site existed, then what evidence can indicate the military knew about
it before William Brazel discovered the wreckage on the Foster property.
Friday, 4th July 1947.
An archaeologist Professor and his students are taking advantage of the three-day-weekend and are on site-studies
somewhere west of Roswell, near the lower northern slope of Capitan mountains.
As they searched for Native American artifacts, an object was seen falling from the sky near their camp.
The name of the Professor, nor his students are not known.
A storm is approaching and as the evening is also closing in on them, the Professor realises that any search for what
they believed was an aircraft of some type would be fruitless and would have to wait until the next morning.
He instructs one of his team to locate a telephone and sometime after midnight, the student arrives at the small town
of Capitan on Route 380 and calls the Sheriff's office in Roswell. The student speaks to George Wilcox and explains
what he and his team witnessed.
This report was taken serious enough by the Sheriff that he requests two Deputies to ride out and check the report.
Wilcox also called the Roswell Volunteer Fire Department to react in case they're needed.
There are two versions of what happened next in the early hours of 5th July, but both basically track the same.
A single Roswell fire engine -supposedly escorted by members of the Roswell Police Department, responded to the
call and set out in the darkness with the meagre information of where the plane had been reported to have come down.
The other version states a lone fireman called Dan Dwyer followed the instructions and travelled the fifty-five miles
from Roswell in his own car to find out what had happened.
Driving west-northwest along a dirt-road known as SR-48, either the fire truck or Dwyer headed towards an area known
as 'The Old Pine Lodge', the reported location of the crash site. Arriving close to the vicinity of the crash scene, the story
is that after the rush to get out there to acquire any possible injured people, the truck or the solitary fireman were unsure
of the rough terrain and so, merely pulled-up to wait for the sun to rise.
But would this make sense?
.................................................
A bit about 'Pine Lodge'.
"Pine Lodge in the Capitan Mountains was marketed in the newspapers of the timeas a rustic retreat, ideal for resting
the “mind, body and soul” at reasonable rates. The lodge is long gone, but the paved road that is now the scenic back
way to the village of Capitan is named after it."
Pine Lodge.
A suggestion to what happened is that the military had only just arrived on the scene themselves and when the fire truck
and police car contingent turned onto the dirt road from the main highway in the pre-dawn darkness they were stopped
by either MPs or an armed military patrol of some sort before they got very far.
As not to create a problem with the two civilian firefighting and law enforcement agencies, the narrative continues that the
military guards request a waiting period in order to allow an evaluation of the situation to see if their assistance was required.
If the object isn't as mundane an aircraft, even the patrol wouldn't be in the loop as to what is really going on.
If it was just fireman Dwyer attending, the same scenario is viable. By the way, in later interviews Dan Dwyer is quoted as
saying that he saw "the first pink lines of sunlight over the horizon" indicating being there at least pre-dawn of the morning
of July 5th.
Dywer also claimed he noticed an extremely strong glow over the crest of the hills away from the sunrise. Before sun-up Dwyer
says he was able to sneak away undetected from the loosely watched or guarded fire crew and police officers, possibly by a
planned or accidental diversion created by his buddies sharing hot coffee from thermos bottles with members of the military.
He makes his way across the rough heavily-wooded terrain to a point where he is able to see a number of uniformed military
personnel, a series of turned-on floodlights, and various pieces of equipment. Dywer said that he saw Jeeps, SRC-399 radio
rigs and other communication vans surrounding what he described as a "strange craft" being lifted into the air by a crane and
set on a flat bed truck.
He continues to watch as it is secured with chains and cables then covered by a tarp. Of course, Dan Dwyer is the only actual
eyewitness to the event.
The only downside to this is the lack of any report from the Roswell fire department regarding 3rd July 1947!
However, many researchers offer the idea that being a Volunteer service, next-day record-keeping -after a late-night run, could
have been overlooked and forgotten. A suspicious researcher may even offer the idea that any evidence of the alleged crash
of something unusual could be merely 'disappeared'.
But in regards of the police car contingent waiting for 'permission' to get to the alleged crash-site, another problem arises
Some research offers that the two deputies -who sent to the debris field by Sheriff Wilcox went early in the morning and
returning to the station-house, did so around mid-day.
However, it's said they reported that on the way back to Roswell, they saw several army trucks and a number of armed soldiers
that seemed to be staging at various places along the road. But this would conflict with the previous assumption the deputies
had accompanied the fire engine.
I also mentioned that during Major Jesse Marcel and Captain Sheridan Cavitt's scouring of the Foster Ranch and their return to
the Army Base, Mac Brazel seems to drop away from the narrative. Sometime during the two day period personnel from the local
Roswell radio station, KGFL, arrive to wire record an interview with Brazel.
The crew, realising there is no electricity on the ranch or being overseen too closely by Marcel and Cavitt requests Brazel to return
to town with them. Again, the KGFL people picking up Brazel made no mention of a military presence.
Later in that week, a co-owner and manager of Roswell radio station KGFL -George "Jud" Roberts, along with Walt
Whitmore Sr. reported he and Whitmore tried to drive out to the Brazel place but couldn't get close because the military
had the place cordoned off.
Roberts also described how Whitmore had previously wire-recorded an interview with Brazel.
Roberts said he was called from Washington and was threatened with losing the station's license if they aired the interview.
"I made an attempt to go out to the crash site to see it for myself, but I was turned back by a military person who said we
were in a restricted area."
So it may have been that the military were on the ball with this possible crash. This doesn't justify the title of a flying disc situation,
but if true, the road blockades put up by the Army does indicate something serious had happened and they didn't want it advertised.
It's just strange that nobody in the immediate circle of the Brazel account saw the road blocks.
.................................................
William M. Woody, age 14, lived on a farm east of Roswell Army Air Force Base.
Several nights earlier of Brazel's morning discovery, he and his father observe a brilliant fireball headed out of the northwestern
sky that appears to come down northwest of Roswell.
Here's his affidavit.
My name is William M. Woody
My address is: [Confidential] I am employed as: I am retired.
In 1947, I was 12 years old [corrected to 14 years old] and living with my family on our farm, located 3 miles south
of Roswell, New Mexico, and east of what was then Roswell Army Air Field. I still live on that farm.
One hot night during the summer of 1947, probably in early July, my father and I were outside on the farm. It was well
after sundown and quite dark. Suddenly, the sky lit up. When we looked up to see where the light was coming from,
we saw a large, very bright object in the southwestern sky, moving rapidly northward.
The object had the bright white intensity of a blow torch, and had a long, flame-like tail, with colours like a blow-torch
flame fading down into a pale red. Most of the tail was this pale red colour.
The tail was very long, equal to about 10 diameters of a full moon.
We watched the object travel all the way across the sky until it disappeared below the northern horizon. It was moving fast,
but not as fast as a meteor, and we had it in view for what seemed like 20 to 30 seconds.
Its brightness and colours did not change during the whole time, and it definitely went out of sight below the horizon, rather
than winking out like a meteor does. My father thought it was a big meteorite and was convinced it had fallen to earth about
40 miles north of Roswell, probably just southwest of the intersection of U.S. Highway 285 and the Corona road (State Highway
247).
My father knew the territory, all its roads, and many of the people very well, so two or three days later (definitely not the next
day), he decided to look for the object.
He took me with him in our old flatbed truck. We headed north through Roswell on U.S. 285.
About 19 miles north of town, where the highway crosses the Macho Draw, we saw at least one uniformed soldier stationed
beside the road. As we drove along, we saw more sentries and Army vehicles. They were stationed at all places - ranch roads,
crossroads, etc. - where there was access to leave the highway and drive east or west, and they were armed, some with rifles,
others with sidearms.
I do not remember seeing any military activity on the ranch-land beyond the highway right of way.
We stopped at one sentry post, and my father asked a soldier what was going on.
The soldier, who's attitude was very nice, just said his orders were not to let anyone leave 285 and go into the countryside.
As we drove north, we saw that the Corona road (State 247), which runs west from Highway 285, was blocked by soldiers.
We went on as far as Ramon, about nine miles north of the 247 intersection. There were sentries there, too.
At Ramon we turned around and head south and home.
I remember my father saying he thought the Army was looking for something it had tracked on its way down.
He may have gotten this from the soldier he spoke with during our drive up 285, but I am not sure. I also recall that two
neighbours, both now dead, stopped by and told my father they had seen the same object we had seen.
One said others in his family had seen it too.
There were many rumours about flying saucers that summer, and I recall the weather balloon story, explaining away the
report of a flying saucer crash near Corona. This seemed reasonable to us at the time.
I have not been paid or given or promised anything of value to make this statement, which is the truth to the best of my
recollection.
Signed: William M. Woody [Signed] 9-28-93
Signature witnessed by: Tracy L. Callaway [Signed] 9.28.93
.................................................
Dr. C. Bertram Schultz: A vertebrate paleontologist, and Professor Emeritus of Geology and Paleontology at the University
of Nebraska. Professor Schultz said he saw soldiers blocking access to the western side of Highway 285 as he was driving
15-20 miles north of Roswell.
Schultz's two daughters reported that their father has been telling the story of the crashed flying saucer for many years.
He also said he had spent time in Roswell and spoken with a group of archeologists who knew of the crash.
Among these that he spoke with at some time was archeologist Dr. W. Curry Holden of Texas Tech who had been at the
crash site. Holden told him of seeing the wreck.
However, there is evidence the contrary that Holden was actually was in Lubbock the whole time getting ready for the
wedding and not doing any archaeological work during this period.
.................................................
Bud Payne, a rancher and neighbour of William "Mac" Brazel, his ranch adjoined the Foster ranch, which Brazel managed.
Payne said he was turned back by armed guards as he approached the Foster Ranch and the debris field.
"Before I reached the site, I was stopped by two soldiers sitting in an Army truck parked beside the ranch road I was on.
They were in field uniforms, and they may have been armed, wearing pistols. There were more vehicles and soldiers on
higher ground beyond where I had been stopped.
"I told the two soldiers who stopped me I was going to where the flying saucer came down. They said 'We know where you're
going, but you can't go in there." They did not threaten me, but they had their instructions to turn everybody back."
.................................................
It's odd that when Bill Brazel went to see the Sheriff at Roswell (and to purchase a jeep) early on the Sunday morning, he never
spoke of being stopped nor did he report any sort of encounter with anyone from the military.
But notice the timing on this.
Brazel gets up early, completes his chores, and then drives into Roswell, about seventy-five miles away. But, by the afternoon
of the same day when William M. Woody and his dad head north from Roswell all the side roads are guarded by armed military
personnel.
.................................................
And to partially answer Mystic's query, within a year, Bill Brazel moved off the ranch and into Tularosa.
There he opened a refrigerated meat locker rental establishment where people could rent lockers to keep their frozen meat in
those days of few home freezers. Mac Brazel passed away in 1963.
.................................................
Here's some other statements of the incident.
Bessie Brazel Scheiber(Mac's daughter):
"There was what appeared to be pieces of heavily waxed paper and a sort of aluminum-like foil.
Some of these pieces had something like numbers and lettering on them, but there were no words you were able to make out.
Some of the metal-foil pieces had a sort of tape stuck to them, and when these were held to the light they showed what looked
like pastel flowers or designs.
Even though the stuff looked like tape it could not be peeled off or removed at all." "[The writing] looked like numbers mostly,
at least I assumed them to be numbers. They were written out like you would write numbers in columns to do an addition problem.
But they didn't look like the numbers we use at all. What gave me the idea they were numbers, I guess, was the way they were all
ranged out in columns."
"No, it was definitely not a balloon. We had seen weather balloons quite a lot - both on the ground and in the air.
We had even found a couple of Japanese-style balloons that had come down in the area once. We had also picked up a couple
of those thin rubber weather balloons with instrument packages. This was nothing like that.
I have never seen anything resembling this sort of thing before - or since..."
.................................................
Floyd Proctor, Neighbour of Mac Brazel:
"It wasn't paper because he couldn't cut it with his knife, and the metal was different from anything he had ever seen.
He said the designs looked like the kind of stuff you would find on firecracker wrappers...some sort of figures all done up in pastels,
but not writing like we would do it."
Lorreta Proctor:
"The piece he brought looked like a kind of tan, light-brown plastic...it was very lightweight, like balsa wood.
It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just larger than a pencil." "We cut on it with a knife and would hold
a match on it, and it wouldn't burn.
We knew it wasn't wood. It was smooth like plastic, it didn't have real sharp corners, kind of like a dowel stick. Kind of dark tan.
It didn't have any grain...just smooth."
"We should have gone [to look at the debris field], but gas and tires were expensive then. We had our own chores, and it would
have been twenty miles."
.................................................
The characters in The Roswell Incident.
(Left-To-Right) William Brazel, Sheriff George Wilcox, Major Jesse Marcel (young and old).
(Bottom) General William H. Blanchard, General Roger M. Ramey and the alleged debris site.
The next thing we should look at is what happened when the wreckage arrived at the Roswell Army Air Base.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
Since we've done the 'what ifs's' on the immediate situation of Mac Brazel's findings on the leased ranch and how
initially, the 'hidden' narrative was simply that an unusual flying vehicle had taken a hit of some-sort and then possibly
crashed further out on the Chaves County area, it could be helpful if we applied that same rationale to what happened
later.
The key to all this is the dates, don't forget that. Newspapers need time to create their editorials and back then in 1947,
it wasn't a case of simply typing something. Text had to be changed into lead (metal) paragraphs, plates had to made
for the press and freshly-printed newspapers had to be tied-up, thrown in a vehicle and distributed.
...............................................
(8th July)
Two days after Brazel's visit to Roswell and with just a couple of scraps of material, Base Commander Colonel William
Blanchard instructed his Public Information Officer -Lt. Walter G. Haut, to announce to the world that they had nabbed a
flying saucer.
Some might think -with today's cynical-eye, that this would be a bit hasty. Sadly, a couple of pieces of foil -a saucer
doesn't make! This may be true, but I'd suggest it's mistakenly formed from our assumption that Blanchard was working
off his belief that Brazel's wreckage was the only proof. But what if he wasn't?
What if the Base Commander was actually reacting to information regarding a whole damaged craft discovered elsewhere...?
Something that had come down the same night as the Brazel debris and known of by the military from the start?
"Hold on..." I hear you say, "then why would Blanchard spill the beans? Wouldn't a new technology be a boon in the that
early Cold War era?" Yes it would. But again, we may be wrong in assuming that if flying saucers were somehow in the
Government-connected-'secret' zone back then, how far would Col. Blanchard be in the loop?
Here's Haut's release from Tuesday 8th July, four days after Brazel first found his scraps and three days after sightings
of military road blocks around the Capitan mountain area. At the very least, Blanchard -who we're supposed to assume
was in charge, had two-to-three days to muse over whether to tell everyone a disc had landed on his patch.
Quote:“The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the
509th (atomic) Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain
possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the ranchers and the sheriff’s office of Chaves County.
The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher
stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff’s office, who in turn notified Jesse A Marcel
of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher’s home. It was inspected at the Roswell
Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Jesse Marcel to higher headquarters.”...'
'Loaned'... pieces of a unrecognised weather-balloon loaned to 'higher headquarters'? That's quite a quick turnaround
considering we're supposed to be looking at sheets of foil with sticks taped to them. The narrative tells us the wreckage
went to Fort Worth Texas, where Brig. General Roger M. Ramey, 8th AAF commander and his trusty intelligence chief
-Col. Alfred Kalberer, realised the sun-burnt material was something scientists use.
By the way, this Haut announcement also tells us that the military did scour the Foster Ranch between Sunday 6th July
-when Brazel told the Sheriff and when Lt. Haut was told to type-up this press release on Tuesday morning 8th.
If we're to assume a newspaper works off a schedule that prints during the day and not like many others -where Journalists
collate information during daylight hours and prints and distributes during the night, then the 'loan' of a dumb-assed rancher's
bits of foil to the Carswell Base in Texas had already taken place sometime on Sunday night or Monday morning.
Or... something more important was sent to the Texas Army Air force base and the wide-eyed announcement had to be
retracted immediately when smarter-heads realised its potential. Could it be that those above Colonel Blanchard were
more invested in the flying saucer phenomena than Blanchard?
Let's go one step further... was Col. Blanchard actually in charge of the Base on the 8th July 1947?
Special Order Number 9, issued by Headquarters, 509th Bomb Group. Dated July 8, 1947, this official document refers
to a TWX (teletypewriter exchange) dated Sunday, July 6, 1947. It reads as follows:
Quote:"Pursuant to the authority contained in Hqs. 8th Air Force TWX number A1 1593 6 July 1947, the undersigned hereby
assumes control of the roswell Army Air Field, roswell New Mexico. Effective this date." The Special Order was signed
by Payne Jennings, Lt. Col. A.C. (Air Corps), commanding.
Again the dates... the dates tells us what's really going on. The above was typed on the 6th July, the day after Brazel found
his ranch-scraps. However, it's officially filed for the 8th July. But before we start whispering about conspiracies, this
act could've been merely a 'hand-over' instance.
Blanchard was going on leave and the Base works under a hierarchical system. The extra was that -not only is the person
responsible for the Haut announcement out of the way, taking one's leave gives the appearance that the Roswell event isn't
that important. However, it does seem an odd coincidence.
Oh, and don't worry about who Jennings is, we'll get back to him.
So after The Roswell Daily Record became the beacon for extraterritorial life on Earth, it issued this the next day.
(9th July and taken from Wikipedia):
Quote:"...The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring
the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area
about 200 yards in diameter.
When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8
inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick.
In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.
There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers
of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.
There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts.
Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.
No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of
attachment may have been used..."
It's a balloon. Every word tells us it's a balloon. Those damned Reporters were click-baiting even back then!
The open narrative makes sense again. A rancher finds some crap and everyone overreacts because of the current
flying saucer craze.
Back to work, boys and girls.
...............................................
But the real world keeps turning and since the 'weather-balloon' pill has been taken, then why did Mac's young son
Bill, arrive at the Foster Ranch a week later to find his father not there? It was Saturday 12th July and after checking
around the property to see what work was to be done, young Bill saw that all the debris had gone and the alleged
gouge had been filled in.
If you recollect, sometime during Sunday 6th July -as Major Marcell and Captain Sheridan Cavitt went about picking
up material on the ranch, employees from the local Roswell radio station (KGFL) arrived and asked Mac Brazel Snr.
to accompany them back to town for an interview.
How KGFL knew of the situation remains unanswered.
Arriving in Roswell, Brazel gave his exclusive interview -which was later confiscated when he was 'arrested' and
taken to the Roswell Army Air force Base. Oh, and the radio station was threatened with shutdown if they aired
the story.
According to Major Edwin Easley, the 509th Provost Marshal, Mr. Brazel was "assisting" the Army Air Force while
staying in "the guest house" on the base.
That 'assistance' took nine days from when the rancher was first picked up. He was only released on Tuesday 15th July
when he agreed to re-visit the Radio Station and recant his initial statement. But as Mac said later:
"I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon, but if I find anything else besides a bomb they are
going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."
Do you still want to think it was a weather-balloon?!
From the outcome seen the next day most likely military officers were in the process of convincing him not to say anything
about what he has seen and were trying to keep him out of the way of reporters.
The narrative had already begun changing on the Monday 7th July and now with the first-hand witness telling the public
that he was full of crap and just tried to get his name in the paper, the salvaged material from the ranch and a possible
larger chunk of a downed-craft from the Capitan mountain area safely tucked away in Texas, that turning world goes back
to sleep for another four decades.
Or did it? Maybe some of the bit-players who appeared when the incident was resurrected can help?
But we better be careful, that narrative has grown within those seventy years. Just look at this from the Smithsonian
website:
Quote:"...Accompanied by the sheriff and Brazel, Marcel returned to the site and collected all of the “wreckage.”Smithsonianmag.org:
As they tried to ascertain what the materials were, Marcel chose to make a public statement.
On July 8, Marcel’s comments ran in the local afternoon newspaper, the Roswell Daily Record, alongside
a headline stating “RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell.”..."
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
If there was one thing I could never understand about the so-called Roswell Incident was that if the ragged scraps of
foil, wooden-supports for the targets the illustrated tape that held the silver material to the 'unbreakable' sticks and the
balloon itself, were just commonplace in that area of New Mexico, then why confuse the public by announcing you had
a flying disc?
Regardless of a classified project to acquire atmospheric particles to prove the Soviets had tested a nuclear device, why not
just say it was another weather balloon and fudge the records? In fact we can go further and ask why didn't the Roswell Army
Air force Base lazily comment that a test rocket had veered off course, nose-dived or exploded in mid-air?
A week before the Roswell Incident, on May 29, 1947, a modified V-2 rocket, called a Hermes B-1 vehicle, which was a highly
classified top secret project at the time, was launched and somehow inadvertently got wires physically crossed in the guidance
system.
Instead of heading up range toward the north as intended, the rocket headed south, slamming into the Tepeyac Cemetery across
the border in Mexico, a mile and a half outside the city of Ciudad Juarez. Travelling at the speed of sound, the crazy rocket blew a
25 foot deep hole in the ground and left damage 30 feet in diameter, which we can all agree should be something we quietly sweep
under the carpet.
It seems the Nazi scientists of 'Paperclip' weren't the geniuses we'd taken them for because it wasn't their first or last screw-up.
However, 120 minutes later, recovery teams had slipped over the border and retrieved what wreckage was left. Phew.
Two weeks before the US began unintentionally bombing Mexico, another Hermes B-1 rocket crashed out in the desert east of the
impact zone on the outskirts of Alamagordo, New Mexico. Being sparsely populated at the time, the tales of wayward flying torpedoes
get lost very easily and of course, records were immediately classified.
But it shows 'impact zones' were a thing and that Wernher von Braun's inventions had the capacity to not do what they were told.
To date, they were at least four others fired from the White Sands V-2 Launching Site known as 'Complex 33', but I'm sure there
were more. Again, the records regarding this place were classified until recently.
So was it these experimental rockets - ancestors of Wallfire's silo-sitting bad-asses, that the military were hiding...?
Was it the sensitive nature where testing can go awry that caused Col. Blanchard to phone his public information officer of the 509th
Bomb -Walter Haut and tell him to announce we had a flying disc on our hands?
It sort-of makes sense, a highly-secretive device comes down in a place where the US public could be in danger and to vent-off any
concerns, the military uses a trend of the time to titillate the media with 'men-from'Mars' and later retract it.
The material is unrecognisable, whatever the post-Nazi scientists were trying was classified, so a cover-story seems the natural way
to go.
But would you do that for a balloon...? Why not just say it was a balloon?
Just like the rocket that took a trip down Mexico way, I think the original narrative may have gotten its wires crossed. Mac Brazel had
already given his account of what he'd found on the Foster ranch to the local radio station and possibly to whoever else he'd come into
contact with.
Brazel didn't recognise the material, his comments of the unusual qualities of the material were a problem and if you throw in the
eye-witness 'glowing-lights-in-the-sky' reports of the evening before the wreckage discovery, maybe Blanchard thought that instead
of denying they had a 'disc' in their possession, he could take the story and control it.
Such damaged material would be flown out from Roswell for examination to see what went wrong and of course, to keep away from
prying eyes. It's a bit weak, I admit, but the only alternative was that the Base Commander was merely telling the truth.
And he may well have been telling the truth if he'd been kept out of the loop that anything from White Sands had disappeared from
radar-tracking and crash landed somewhere.
.....................................
In 1947 the radar equipment used at White Sands was said to be composed of SCR-584 mobile units.
These were classed as "modified and of an experimental nature". These units were set onto a trailer and though had a gross weight of
ten tons, known as mobile.
On 14th October 1947, these radar vehicles tracked Chuck Yeager in his record breaking supersonic flight of the Bell X-1 over Muroc Dry
Lake as he accelerated to a speed of Mach 1.06 at an altitude of 42,000 feet.
Some might wonder what radar has anything to do with a suspected downed flying-saucer, but since we tend to think of this kind of
technology as a single source transmitting and receiving electromagnetic waves in the radio or microwaves domain, what was going
on down in White Sands was completely different.
A 1991 book written by G. Harry Stine titled 'ICBM' explained that for the White Sands Missile Range V-2 testing program in the 1940's
there were cameras, radars (including SCR-584 Doppler radio positioning system) and tracking telescopes linked with 100,000 miles of
open wires run by the US Army Signal Corps. All under the blanket of secrecy at the time and so, possibly unknown to Blanchard.
This means a vast electrical field-grid laying across that desert area and if this could interfere with a passing disc's flight, then we may
have the source why some of the early rumours that came out regardiing the Roswell Incident were that the Army had brought down
the unknown craft with the use of radar.
Not included in that on-base array were many interconnected "beyond the fence" remote sites. For example, in 1947 there was a radar
site for far-field tracking of missiles launched from White Sands located just north of U.S. 60 about forty-five miles west of Socorro,
New Mexico.
Again, an interference that we know little of when it comes to these discs, but if such a flyover took place, then surely the radar screens
would've registered its movements and maybe even where it crashed.
.....................................
But it's all still jigsaw pieces and whether the debris Brazel found and the possible larger crash-site near Capitan belonged to aliens,
the remains of a V2 rocket or just a storm-damaged balloon, the need to remove it from the Roswell base on the same day -or even
before, of the disc press-release is very telling.
And so it went to Fort Worth... where we should go next.
Here's the schedule for the White Sands missile launch.
It's curious on who these launches were for. Bell Telephones?
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
Now... where are we at? Oh yes, some stuff finally arrives at Roswell Army Air force Base.
I'm hoping that at some point, we can get to Fort Worth Texas with the same militaristic-haste that the debris, Marcel and
his superiors showed during that week in July 1947.
The confusing dates, the images that are said to be from the Roswell Army Base -when in fact, are from Carswell Army Base
in Fort Worth and the surprising morning visits to Colonel Blanchard's office from a General and his Brigadier General.
All for the sake of some scraps of a weather-balloon?
Unless, what we're really talking about is TWO separate collections of material, the scraps of foil and un-burnable 'sticks' that
Mac Brazel found on his sheep-herding land, and something else reported to have been found by civilians near the northern
area of the Capitan mountain range the evening before the rancher's finding.
But can that be proven...? Could we be dealing with a misdirection ploy here?
It seemed that only later in the years that researchers became aware of the indication of a second interesting location and with
it, more players stepped up to offer what they said they knew.
Part of RAAF public information officer Walter Haut's press-release from Tuesday 8th July 1947. Dictated to him via telephone
from Colonel William Blanchard:
"...The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week.
Not having phone facilities, the rancher stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff's office,
who in turn notified Maj. Jesse A. Marcel of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher's home. It was inspected at the Roswell
Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Marcel to higher headquarters."
However, after Haut died, a sealed affidavit surfaced that didn't quite tally with what the Roswell Base information officer
first claimed.
Quote:DATE: December 26, 2002SOURCE:
WITNESS: Chris Xxxxxx
NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan
(1) My name is Walter G. Haut
(2) I was born on June 2, 1922
(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203
(4) I am retired.
(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public
Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private
residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.
(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by mid-morning after my return to duty
at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base
commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.
(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site
just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.
(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard,
Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses
S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his
chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance.
The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx.
75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town.
Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which
resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from
man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.
(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery.
Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon.
Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.
Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed.
I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.
(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession
a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters.
I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.
(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world.
Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home
and "hide out."
(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located
on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside
and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town.
It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape.
Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.
(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin.
Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features.
The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child.
At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.
(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.
(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).
(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office
and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out
of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.
(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup.
I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.
(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.
(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.
(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.
Signed: Walter G. Haut
December 26, 2002
Signature witnessed by:
Chris Xxxxxxx
This -if true, puts a different slant on why Brazel's discovery was focused on and why it was felt that General Ramey and Brig.
General Dubose had to fly out to Roswell on the day after the retrieval. Later, when the alleged debris was transported back
to Fort Worth, the images -that are now well known, don't even identify Dubose sitting with Ramey during an examination of
some material in the General's office!
General Ramey, Brig. General Dubose and the photo take from the Star-Telegraph newspaper.
This may seem odd at first until realising the problem of Brig. Gen. Thomas Jefferson Dubose reporting to have said to have
never actually seen the Roswell debris, which as the photo from the Star-Telegraph of Fort Worth, proves false.
That is, if we assume the debris in the photograph is the same material Mac Brazel found and Major Marcel brought to the Base.
As Dubose stated plainly in his affidavit:
"The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon.
The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."
This means the material taken to 'higher headquarters' could have been the more substantial unknown hardware retrieved from
the Capitan location and not appropriate material to display to the public. Added to that, what if part of that discovery needed
urgent medical assistance due to it still being alive? What if this crashed vehicle held occupants?!
So you can see why the media's attention had be kept on a curious tale of 'is-it-or-isn't-it' until such times that a downed disc
could be removed and taken to a place of security. This would make sense when Dubose also spoke of an earlier, highly secret
shipment of debris ordered by Gen. Clements McMullen (Deputy Commander of the Strategic Air Command) in Washington.
Dubose also added that a Benjamin Chidlaw, Commanding General of the Air Material Command at Wright Field [later Wright
Patterson AFB] would take possession of this material via a 'colonel courier' at a later date.
Still think it was a weather-balloon?!
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
Without tarrying on cases like Glen Dennis -Roswell's Undertaker and others who came out of the woodwork
during Stanton Friedman's later investigation of the Roswell incident, it might be prudent to look at those in the
military who witnessed the transportation of the wreckage of the supposed weather-balloon.
Hangar 84 then and now.
Considering the crumpled foil and tape-covered sticks' ordinariness, one may be puzzled why such interest from
the 'higher-ups' was enough that the debris had to be flown to one -if not more, other military bases.
But it is an indication that something wasn't quite right with -what many people around that area of New Mexico
would've thought, an everyday event.
First Lieutenant Robert Shirkey was an Assistant Flight Safety Officer at Roswell Army Air field in July of 1947
and he recalled an unusual situation during the time of the flying-saucer affair.
Being notified that a B-29 Superfortress was ordered by Col. Blanchard to be readied and was waiting outside
of the Base Operations Quarters, Shirkey ordered a crew to prepare the flight for 2.00.pm. on that day, 8th July
(Tuesday).
1st. Lt. Shirkey witnessed -accompanied by Col. Blanchard, several boxes being brought out to the plane's ramp
and loaded into the B-29. At the two o'clock, the four-engine heavy bomber took off for Fort Worth Texas.
He also partially saw what the carried boxes contained:
"...One man had a piece, carrying under his arm right out in the open, about 16 by 22, coffee table sized.
Maj. Jesse Marcel went through carrying this box with scraps of metal in it and one of the I-beams sticking
up in the corner.
Meanwhile a staff car had pulled up underneath the tail and they were handing some boxes up into the back
door entrance..."
But that wasn't the end of Shirkey's involvement in the crashed weather-balloon aspect. Being the Assistant Flight
Safety Officer, he was connected with two other flights involving something top secret that was to be taken from the
Roswell military base. Several days later, a B-25 was scheduled to take something to Fort Worth and a third flight
was a B-29 going directly to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.
The pilot for the Wright Patterson flight was Oliver "Pappy" Henderson, someone we will get back to.
Up to now, we're still dealing with material, confusing scraps of foil, 'I-beams' and -what Lt. Shirkey described as:
"...one piece that was 18 x 24 inches, brushed stainless steel in color...". Major Marcel is reported to still be with the
wreckage, but Counter-Intelligence agent, Captain Sheridan Cavitt -who accompanied Marcel at the Foster Ranch
is no longer mentioned. Marcel also boarded the B-25 and flew with the weather-balloon to Fort Worth because of
its importance... the remains of a weather-balloon.
Considering that the poor discoverer of this debris -Mac Brazel, had now been 'quarantined' in the same place that
the stuff was being stored, the haste to get the material off the base and to where it could be better-secured, and
the high status of rank involved, Brazel's original comments of the material's qualities don't seem that bizarre.
You don't don't fly broken weather-balloons -escorted by a Major, to other sites for identification, you just don't.
You don't arrest a man and keep him away from the media, his family and the general public for nine days, either.
You don't have the FBI threaten -via teletype machine, a local Radio Station (KOAT Radio in Albuquerque) to:
'immediately cease all communication' on Brazel's discovery, you just don't.
But you would if the material belonged to something that was vital to the country's security, you would if what the
rancher found was somehow attached to another discovery, that of a downed craft with real goddam aliens strewn
around the place!
Anyway, 1st Lieutenant Robert Shirkey had something more to add regarding the second flight of the B-25 to the
Carswell Base at Fort Worth:
"...I learned later that a Sergeant and some airmen went to the crash site and swept up everything, including bodies.
The bodies were laid out in Hanger 84. Henderson's flight contained all that material..."
Oh sh'*t, the tale has taken a sudden turn!
It was fine following a narrative of a few armfuls of broken weather equipment and the small-town musings of something
that was all the rage in the press, but 'bodies'...?
Shirkey also noted that within two weeks after both flights, the Sergeant of the Guards and all the crewmen involved in
the removal of the material from Roswell, were shipped out to other bases and ergo separated. Shirkey -himself, was
transferred to the Philippines only nine days later to a post that did not even exist!
(Nine days, the same amount of time Brazel was a 'guest' at the Base.)
Could it be that this second flight was later because of the logistics to retrieve whatever a second crash-site contained
took longer? Shirkey mentions Hangar 84 and that does still exist. The large shelter on the Roswell Air Field is still in
a good condition, but back then... could the hangar have been the setting of actual alien dead bodies?
If we're moving into a narrative where other-world corpses and a crashed vehicle are involved, then the delay in recovery
-compared to a few boxes of light-weight scraps would make sense. The only puzzle is why move the entire collection from
the hangar? Surely any investigation and analysis could've been done on-site within the guarded base, unless the material
was so important that it had to be removed from the immediate area due to the announcement earlier that day of a crashed
flying-saucer capture.
Or that someone else -apart from the media, could come looking for it?!
Also, notice that Blanchard is still involved on the 8th July, even though an official order had been signed on 6th July 1947
stating that Lieutenant Colonel A.C. Payne Jennings was to take command of the Roswell Army Air Force Base on the 8th.
Colonel William Blanchford -if some researchers are to be believed, should have been on leave from his command position
from Tuesday 8th July. Yet, he's reported to have ordered his Public Information Officer -Lt. Walter G. Haut, to announce the
capture of a downed-disc on that day and later, took a few days off with his wife enjoying the hospitality of Santa Fe.
That's quite a sh*t-creek to leave the guy who's covering your position, in! But to understand what was really happening, we
would have to look at the situation through the eyes of someone who took a more security-based view on what they actually
had in that Hangar 84.
Blanchard had done his job, but screwed-up with the press release. LT. Colonel Jennings, an officer held in high regard for
his work as commanding officer of the Air Transport Unit during the Bikini-Atoll atomic bomb testing, had taken charge and
in my view, was given the task of making the problem go away.
Assistant Flight Safety Officer Shirkey stated the plane to the Carswell Base in Texas was piloted by Lt. Col. Payne Jennings.
By the way, do you know who flew Lt. Shirkey nine days later to San Francisco on a B-29 to hasten his transfer to the islands
in Southeast Asia...? No other than Lt. Col. Payne Jennings!
The other connection to Col. Jennings and someone else we've already mentioned, is a link to the pilot who flew the B-29 to
Wright-Patterson, that being Oliver Henderson. If you recall, Jennings was the commanding officer in the transporting system
during the atom bomb tests in mid-1946.
Pappy' Henderson -named due to being older than his fellow squadron pilots in the World War II, spent over thirteen years at the
Roswell base running the 'Green Hornet Airline'. This transport service involved flying C-54s and C-47s, carrying VIPs, scientists
and materials from Roswell to the Pacific during the same atom bomb tests that Lt. Col. Jennings was involved with.
This certainly assured Henderson would have a top secret clearance for this responsibility.
Both logistical no-nonsense officers and did what they were told.
At the beginning of the eighties, Oliver Henderson's wife -Saffo, stated in regards of a newspaper article on aliens, that he had
witnessed such beings during their time at Roswell, New Mexico. He told her that he had actually flown the wreckage of a craft
to Dayton, Ohio and due to his clearance, got the opportunity to see the dead bodies of such extraterrestrials.
He added that it was this top secret burden that had stopped him from discussing the incident with her earlier.
Saffo related her husband's description: "...the beings as small with large heads for their size.
He said the material that their suits were made of was different than anything he had ever seen.
He said they looked strange. I believe he mentioned that the bodies had been packed in dry ice
to preserve them..."
Henderson died in 1986.
.........................................
So now we have some partial remains of a weather-balloon-come-flying-saucer dumped onto the floor of General Roger Ramey's
office at the Carswell Base and a facility in Ohio that dealt with a German V-1 flying bomb that was reversed engineered in 1944.
Wright Patterson Base also held German and Japanese aircraft and captured equipment the year before. This material was kept
in six buildings, a large outdoor storage area, and part of a flight-line hangar for Technical Data Lab study.
An ideal place to analyse deceased pilots and experiment on a crashed flying-saucer they had flown.
But why have the small pieces laid out in Ramey's office...? Oh yes, for the media, of course. Sadly, along with the scraps of
foil ready for the scrambling press, Major Marcel -the man who'd never stopped believing what he'd brought back fro the ranch
was 'not of this Earth', waited for the scribbling minions and their flash-bulb cameras.
Five airmen demonstrate a radar device being attached to a weather balloon at Fort Worth Army Air Base
on 11th July 1947, five days after the Roswell, NM, UFO incident.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
I apologise for seemingly going over ground we've already covered, but to understand such a cover-up of such magnitude, the
basic logistics need to be really emphasised. The nine days that William 'Mac' Brazel was confined to the Roswell Army Air
Base, the need to stem or steer information coming out of a local newspaper and flights to and from Fort Worth, these things
are not indicative of routine identification of discarded weather-balloons.
You see, what tends to happen when discussing events from the past is we tend to place certain characters of the event on
particular levels that we imagine deserve some form of 'automatic' belief. An officer in the military has mature responsibilities and
we assume is truthful and virtuous, a Sheriff of a town is law-abiding and like the officer, cannot be swayed from their duties by
trivial matters.
For such a narrative to work, these characters need to be riveted into these positions with words that imply dignity, courage and
honesty. Mac Brazel can lie, but General Ramey can't. Major Marcel can be mistaken, but can't be accused of deliberate falsehood.
In reality -of course, they all can lie, it's just the consequences of those lies that have an effect on their respective lives.
Lie for your nation's security, no problem. Tell the truth and threaten that security, is that any worse in the eyes of those tasked with
providing that security?
But... Brig. General Dubose said in his affidavit:
"The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."
And RAAF public information officer Walter Haut said:
"...I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town.
It was approximately 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape.
Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing
gear were visible.
Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin.
Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features.
The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child.
At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height..."
(Phyllis Wilcox McGuire, Daughter of Roswell Sheriff George Wilcox)
"...When I read in the Roswell paper about the Flying Saucer being found, I went into his [her father's]
office to ask about it... I asked my father if he thought the information about the saucer was true.
He said: 'I don't know why Brazel [sic] ... would come all the way in here if there wasn't something to it.'
He said Brazel had brought in some of the material to show, and that it looked like tinfoil, (a material like
aluminum foil), but when you wadded this material up it would come right back to its original shape.
He felt it was an important finding and he sent deputies out to investigate."
Were they not being the upstanding people we're supposed to take them for...? Were they lying?
Maybe that ingrained trust of solemn-looking military folk -that we grew-up on from the movies, isn't the narrative
we first thought.
..................................................
During my perusals of websites and what meagre physical information I have, what strikes me is the way that outright statements
of intent are presented without any concern that the sole reason why Mac Brazel couldn't tell a weather-balloon from an intergalactic
spacecraft is solely based on the material's appearance.
The simple-minded rancher -because anyone not with letters after their name cannot rationalise a situation like educated people,
mistook the remains of top-secret high-altitude experiment for debris belonging to a vehicle that wasn't of this Earth. It's odd that
he was smarter than the scientists to locate this alleged balloon, but not scholarly to understand what it was.
But this assumption gained weight, when Major Jesse Marcel also believed the bits of sheep-scaring fabric that he and a cohort
collected from the desert didn't seem like conventional material and could be said to be beyond his understanding.
This stance became solid enough that Marcel's superior -Colonel Blanchard ordered his PR Officer to tell the world that the 509th
Operations Group of the Roswell Base had captured a flying-saucer.
Up the line of command it went, with General Roger Ramey of Fort Worth demanding that the boxes of remnants to be flown to Texas
on aircraft far-too large for the unusual cargo, in the hope that this 'disc' could be examined properly.
Article run by the Corsicana Daily Sun on July 9, 1947.
Army Disc-ounts New Mexico Find As Weather Gear.
'... Warrant Officer Irving Newton, forecaster at the Army Air Forces weather stations here,
said "we use them because they can go much higher than the eye can see"...'
Oh sh*t, that put the kibosh on the flying-saucer theory!
Irving Newton was quoted to have said about the incident:
"..I walked into the General's office where this supposed flying saucer was lying all over the floor.
As soon as I saw it, I giggled and asked if that was the flying saucer ... I told them that this was a
balloon and a RAWIN target..."
Newton also stated that "..while I was examining the debris, Major Marcel was picking up pieces
of the target sticks and trying to convince me that some notations on the sticks were alien writings.
There were figures on the sticks, lavender or pink in color, appeared to be weather faded markings,
with no rhyme or reason. He did not convince me that these were alien writings."
Still, it does help us with rationalising a timeline.
A Top-Secret Project Involving A Multitude Of Balloons And Specialised Equipment is released into the skies of New Mexico
on an unspecified date, but supposedly before Brazel's find.
Bill Brazel obviously didn't know about the experiment and what he found wasn't something he felt was usual.
This discovery prompted him enough to change his routine for debatable reasons, fame, money, etc. and use his own money
to relate the information to a town's Custodian.
Major Marcel didn't know about the secret test, but believed the remains were not standard. He allegedly showed his loved-ones
the material and dared to offer an explanation that he trusted. That or he willingly lied to his family for unknown reasons.
Colonel Blanchard can't have been told from anyone involved about the supposedly covert experiment and reacted by issuing a
startling press release. Blanchard had personally examined some of the debris and even though he''d be aware that he was
gambling that his career could be negatively effected, confidently notified the Press.
General Ramey also can't have been aware of Project Mogul because he wouldn't have ordered the assumed simple remains of a
balloon to be flown all the way to Fort Worth for identification of something so sensitive as 'spying' on the Soviets. Adding that
Ramey also felt the importance of the discovery was enough for him to fly from Fort Worth to the Roswell Base for his own
examination, a damaged weather-balloon seems more than reactive.
The media-display on the floor of his office would not only embarrass fellow Officers -Blanchard and Marcel, it would hint that the
US defence systems can also over-react at times without a steady hand at the tiller.
That steady hand seemed to come in the form of a Warrant Officer in Texas called 'Newton'.
He supposedly recognised the remains because he was quoted as using these types of weather-balloon regularly.
A confusing comment considering Wikipedia (I apologise, but this is how they want you to use the internet!)... Wikipedia states:
Quote:"...Unlike a weather balloon, the Project Mogul paraphernalia was massive and contained unusual types of materials,
according to research conducted by The New York Times: "...squadrons of big balloons ... It was like having an elephant
in your backyard and hoping that no one would notice it. ... To the untrained eye, the reflectors looked extremely odd, a
geometrical hash of lightweight sticks and sharp angles made of metal foil. .. photographs of it, taken in 1947 and
published in newspapers, show bits and pieces of what are obviously collapsed balloons and radar reflectors..."
Really...? A set of experienced military men -but presumably with 'untrained eyes', failed to distinguish material that were -in one
sentence, in everyday use in that area of New Mexico and then said to have 'extremely odd' characteristics due to the specific nature
of the experiment.
But only a Warrant Officer could identify them?
Before we frown at Irving Newton's ruining of a perfectly-good UFO-crash narrative, his answers in a 1997 interview could explain why
he was confounded at his fellow military officers' belief that remains of a flying saucer had been found on the New Mexico desert floor.
When asked why the residents and Army personnel of Roswell were unable to identify a weather-balloon, Newton responded:
"They certainly should have. It was a regular Rawin sonde. They must have seen hundreds of them."
Logic would demand that Officer Newton was correct in what he observed in General Ramey's office, but that isn't to say the material
was the same that Brazel, Marcel, Rickett, Cavitt, Blanchard and Ramey witnessed back in Roswell. A switcher-roo?!
It would also go some way to explain Irving Newton's scoffing at Marcel's claims.
And if the scraps that Brazel found were so mundane, why did SAC chief Gen. Clemence McMullen in Washington order the remains to
be immediately shipped to Washington from Fort Worth by "colonel courier" under the strictest secrecy?
(As it turned out, an acting base commander Col. Alvin Clark at Fort Worth ended up as McMullen's "colonel courier.")
..................................................
Of course, there is another answer here, one that would inflate the story bigger than any weather-balloon and would lay to rest why the
list above were unable to recognise what they were seeing and explain why Warrant Officer Newton identified the material he saw as the
remains of a meteorological experiment.
It would involve two locations and one would be more significant than the other. The Foster Ranch-discovery was out of the bag before
the military could make a move to fix it. But the one where an actual vehicle had came to rest was taken control of and it's this one they
had to hide from media eyes.
Hide by distraction.
Yes, the material that Newton observed were weather-balloon remains because that was what lay in Ramey's office.
But the other debris -and bodies that Walter Haut swore that he saw never reached Fort Worth, that went to Wright Patterson.
Moving the situation from Roswell was important, it dragged the media's attention away from any clearing-up that still needed to be done.
Hence the later reported military road-blocks around the areas of the Foster Ranch and Capitan.
Master Sergeant Robert R. Porter was on the Base in July 1947 and was also ordered -due to his role in maintaining aircraft like the B-29,
to 'chaperone' the material to Fort Worth. Later in a 1991 statement, he said:
"The people on board included: Lt. Col. Payne Jennings, the Deputy Commander of the base; Lt. Col. Robert I. Barrowclough;
Maj. Herb Wunderlich; Maj. Jesse Marcel and M/Sgt. Robert R. Porter, Flight Engineer.
Capt. William E. Anderson said it was from a flying saucer.
After we arrived, the material was transferred to a B-25. I was told they were going to Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio."
Whether this was first flight to Fort Worth or the second less-spoken about second flight, is unknown.
.............................................
But I believe it's the flight to Wright Field in Dayton, the one flown by Captain Oliver Wendell Henderson also nicknamed 'Pappy', is where
we should look next. Pappy Henderson had flown thirty missions in B-24 Liberator bombers in Europe during WWII and had participated in
the post-war A-bomb tests in Operation Crossroads at the Bikini Atoll.
Capt. Pappy Henderson.
Dr. John Kromschroeder -a dentist and close friend of Henderson said that 1978, Pappy told him that he had witnessed alien bodies during
his time stationed at Roswell. Being a student of metallurgy, Kromschroeder stated that Captain Henderson also showed him a scrap of the
material from a wreckage that:
"...looked like a piece of aluminum, but was harder and stiffer. He tried to bend it but could not.
Henderson told him that the piece came from the lining of the ship. He said that when it was
energised, it produced illumination..."
We've already mentioned Henderson's wife, Sappho, who stated that her husband told her about his flight to Wright Field and how the
small bodies he witnessed 'had been packed in dry ice'. His daughter, Mary Kathryn Groode, is also to have said that while looking at the
stars one night with her father, she asked him what he was looking for.
He told her "I'm looking for flying saucers. They're real, you know."
Also in 1981, while she was visiting her parents' home, her father showed her a newspaper article on the Roswell UFO crash and the
recovery of alien bodies. Pappy told her that he had seen the crashed vehicle and the bodies, and that he was the pilot who had flown
the materials to Ohio.
His description was of three, small and pale humanoids. They had 'big heads and slanted eyes' and added that he could tell her now,
because the story had been published.
Shall we add Pappy Henderson to the Liars List too...?! How far shall we go before we lose the idea that secrets, responsibilities and
national security seem to be so sacrosanct, that those who live with such duties feel the need to lie to loved-ones long after their
interaction with the hidden event?
Or does logic say that all of these people held to keep the notion of a downed unknown craft secret then and merely did their jobs until
their roles were over?
The Wright-Patterson Base needs to be looked at.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - guohua - 06-27-2021
@"BIAD"
No need to Apologize, that is an Awesome Post
There may be others here that didn't know the whole story as well as you have it narrated here, Great Job!
A lot of Bull-Shit took place when I'm sure it wasn't necessary. I think even then people could have handle the truth, sure there would have been some Religious Fanatics out there screaming these are Demons and it is the end.
But it may have been an unfortunate Family of Grays in a Rental Craft, like a rental RV that wasn't in the best of condition.
I think it was VERY REAL and it was a crime to cover up this and others crash sites.
Just My Humble Opinion
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-27-2021
(06-27-2021, 05:29 PM)guohua Wrote: @"BIAD"
No need to Apologize, that is an Awesome Post
There may be others here that didn't know the whole story as well as you have it narrated here, Great Job!
A lot of Bull-Shit took place when I'm sure it wasn't necessary. I think even then people could have handle the truth, sure there would have been some Religious Fanatics out there screaming these are Demons and it is the end.
But it may have been an unfortunate Family of Grays in a Rental Craft, like a rental RV that wasn't in the best of condition.
I think it was VERY REAL and it was a crime to cover up this and others crash sites.
Just My Humble Opinion
Thanks, the side-roads around this case can take you into realms you'd never think would be related!
In the original thread that held the above piece, I never got the chance to say that isn't it odd that
everyone in direct relation to the Roswell situation is deemed a fraudster and a liar if they adhere to
the 'flying disc' narrative?!
But if you say it was a weather-balloon that had classified patriotic motives, then you're fine.
It's just a damned shame that if the Rawinsonde apparatus was so important to national security, why
was it left out on the desert floor for so long?
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - ABNARTY - 06-29-2021
Can I get this post on Kindle?
Only part way through but I too have always questions the mid-June finding. I accept one guy running a herd would not be able to drop everything and drive all over the countryside immediately. OK. But I lean more towards your finding date of that weekend in July.
The Army's response was inconsistent with a weather balloon. Why send an Intelligence Officer out to recover what you know is most likely a weather balloon? That is a mundane and routine occurrence they would send some schmucks out to retrieve. Probably already had some folks assigned to the detail.
The Army's response was inconsistent with the Mogul balloons. Again, why send an Intelligence Officer out to what you suspect is your highly classified project laying around in the unsecured desert scrub? You would send those involved with the project. Those read-in on the mission. Marcel was in the S2/G2 slot for the base but NOT involved with Operation Mogul if what I have read is accurate.
The Army's response with detaining Mac Brazel is inconsistent with a weather balloon but maybe not the Mogul balloons. However, if they mid-June finding date is indeed accurate, it might explain why they questioned him so long. They would be suspicious of why it took so long to report it. What was he doing with the material? Who had he spoken to? Who had he shown the material to? Why?
Perhaps I'll have more comments/questions as I work my way through this. Thanks for posting!
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - ABNARTY - 06-30-2021
(06-27-2021, 04:39 PM)BIAD Wrote: Since we've done the 'what ifs's' on the immediate situation of Mac Brazel's findings on the leased ranch and how
initially, the 'hidden' narrative was simply that an unusual flying vehicle had taken a hit of some-sort and then possibly
crashed further out on the Chaves County area, it could be helpful if we applied that same rationale to what happened
later.
The key to all this is the dates, don't forget that. Newspapers need time to create their editorials and back then in 1947,
it wasn't a case of simply typing something. Text had to be changed into lead (metal) paragraphs, plates had to made
for the press and freshly-printed newspapers had to be tied-up, thrown in a vehicle and distributed.
...............................................
(8th July)
Two days after Brazel's visit to Roswell and with just a couple of scraps of material, Base Commander Colonel William
Blanchard instructed his Public Information Officer -Lt. Walter G. Haut, to announce to the world that they had nabbed a
flying saucer.
Some might think -with today's cynical-eye, that this would be a bit hasty. Sadly, a couple of pieces of foil -a saucer
doesn't make! This may be true, but I'd suggest it's mistakenly formed from our assumption that Blanchard was working
off his belief that Brazel's wreckage was the only proof. But what if he wasn't?
What if the Base Commander was actually reacting to information regarding a whole damaged craft discovered elsewhere...?
Something that had come down the same night as the Brazel debris and known of by the military from the start?
"Hold on..." I hear you say, "then why would Blanchard spill the beans? Wouldn't a new technology be a boon in the that
early Cold War era?" Yes it would. But again, we may be wrong in assuming that if flying saucers were somehow in the
Government-connected-'secret' zone back then, how far would Col. Blanchard be in the loop?
Here's Haut's release from Tuesday 8th July, four days after Brazel first found his scraps and three days after sightings
of military road blocks around the Capitan mountain area. At the very least, Blanchard -who we're supposed to assume
was in charge, had two-to-three days to muse over whether to tell everyone a disc had landed on his patch.
Quote:“The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the
509th (atomic) Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain
possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the ranchers and the sheriff’s office of Chaves County.
The flying object landed on a ranch near Roswell sometime last week. Not having phone facilities, the rancher
stored the disc until such time as he was able to contact the sheriff’s office, who in turn notified Jesse A Marcel
of the 509th Bomb Group Intelligence Office.
Action was immediately taken and the disc was picked up at the rancher’s home. It was inspected at the Roswell
Army Air Field and subsequently loaned by Major Jesse Marcel to higher headquarters.”...'
'Loaned'... pieces of a unrecognised weather-balloon loaned to 'higher headquarters'? That's quite a quick turnaround
considering we're supposed to be looking at sheets of foil with sticks taped to them. The narrative tells us the wreckage
went to Fort Worth Texas, where Brig. General Roger M. Ramey, 8th AAF commander and his trusty intelligence chief
-Col. Alfred Kalberer, realised the sun-burnt material was something scientists use.
By the way, this Haut announcement also tells us that the military did scour the Foster Ranch between Sunday 6th July
-when Brazel told the Sheriff and when Lt. Haut was told to type-up this press release on Tuesday morning 8th.
If we're to assume a newspaper works off a schedule that prints during the day and not like many others -where Journalists
collate information during daylight hours and prints and distributes during the night, then the 'loan' of a dumb-assed rancher's
bits of foil to the Carswell Base in Texas had already taken place sometime on Sunday night or Monday morning.
Or... something more important was sent to the Texas Army Air force base and the wide-eyed announcement had to be
retracted immediately when smarter-heads realised its potential. Could it be that those above Colonel Blanchard were
more invested in the flying saucer phenomena than Blanchard?
Let's go one step further... was Col. Blanchard actually in charge of the Base on the 8th July 1947?
Special Order Number 9, issued by Headquarters, 509th Bomb Group. Dated July 8, 1947, this official document refers
to a TWX (teletypewriter exchange) dated Sunday, July 6, 1947. It reads as follows:
Quote:"Pursuant to the authority contained in Hqs. 8th Air Force TWX number A1 1593 6 July 1947, the undersigned hereby
assumes control of the roswell Army Air Field, roswell New Mexico. Effective this date." The Special Order was signed
by Payne Jennings, Lt. Col. A.C. (Air Corps), commanding.
Again the dates... the dates tells us what's really going on. The above was typed on the 6th July, the day after Brazel found
his ranch-scraps. However, it's officially filed for the 8th July. But before we start whispering about conspiracies, this
act could've been merely a 'hand-over' instance.
Blanchard was going on leave and the Base works under a hierarchical system. The extra was that -not only is the person
responsible for the Haut announcement out of the way, taking one's leave gives the appearance that the Roswell event isn't
that important. However, it does seem an odd coincidence.
Oh, and don't worry about who Jennings is, we'll get back to him.
So after The Roswell Daily Record became the beacon for extraterritorial life on Earth, it issued this the next day.
(9th July and taken from Wikipedia):
Quote:"...The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring
the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area
about 200 yards in diameter.
When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8
inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick.
In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.
There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers
of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.
There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts.
Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction.
No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of
attachment may have been used..."
It's a balloon. Every word tells us it's a balloon. Those damned Reporters were click-baiting even back then!
The open narrative makes sense again. A rancher finds some crap and everyone overreacts because of the current
flying saucer craze.
Back to work, boys and girls.
...............................................
But the real world keeps turning and since the 'weather-balloon' pill has been taken, then why did Mac's young son
Bill, arrive at the Foster Ranch a week later to find his father not there? It was Saturday 12th July and after checking
around the property to see what work was to be done, young Bill saw that all the debris had gone and the alleged
gouge had been filled in.
If you recollect, sometime during Sunday 6th July -as Major Marcell and Captain Sheridan Cavitt went about picking
up material on the ranch, employees from the local Roswell radio station (KGFL) arrived and asked Mac Brazel Snr.
to accompany them back to town for an interview.
How KGFL knew of the situation remains unanswered.
Arriving in Roswell, Brazel gave his exclusive interview -which was later confiscated when he was 'arrested' and
taken to the Roswell Army Air force Base. Oh, and the radio station was threatened with shutdown if they aired
the story.
According to Major Edwin Easley, the 509th Provost Marshal, Mr. Brazel was "assisting" the Army Air Force while
staying in "the guest house" on the base.
That 'assistance' took nine days from when the rancher was first picked up. He was only released on Tuesday 15th July
when he agreed to re-visit the Radio Station and recant his initial statement. But as Mac said later:
"I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon, but if I find anything else besides a bomb they are
going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."
Do you still want to think it was a weather-balloon?!
From the outcome seen the next day most likely military officers were in the process of convincing him not to say anything
about what he has seen and were trying to keep him out of the way of reporters.
The narrative had already begun changing on the Monday 7th July and now with the first-hand witness telling the public
that he was full of crap and just tried to get his name in the paper, the salvaged material from the ranch and a possible
larger chunk of a downed-craft from the Capitan mountain area safely tucked away in Texas, that turning world goes back
to sleep for another four decades.
Or did it? Maybe some of the bit-players who appeared when the incident was resurrected can help?
But we better be careful, that narrative has grown within those seventy years. Just look at this from the Smithsonian
website:
Quote:"...Accompanied by the sheriff and Brazel, Marcel returned to the site and collected all of the “wreckage.”Smithsonianmag.org:
As they tried to ascertain what the materials were, Marcel chose to make a public statement.
On July 8, Marcel’s comments ran in the local afternoon newspaper, the Roswell Daily Record, alongside
a headline stating “RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell.”..."
How would a balloon of any sort leave a "gouge" in that soil? I was stationed out at Ft Bliss/WSMR many moons ago and had to dig many a-fighting position all over that area of West Texas/Southern New Mexico. The ground is hard as heck. Does not easily give way.
A dirt poor rancher in the area would not have had the means or inclination to fill anything in. Shoot, it might even collect some water in the future.
If the Army did it, they would have had to bring in equipment. My knowledge of the events do not extend to accurately say one way or the other.
If the gouge existed, why would they even bother filling it in right away?
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - ABNARTY - 06-30-2021
I was watching a show on the subject. Can't remember the name.
They did discussed two sites in conjunction with the event.
Supposedly, there indeed was a craft. The first location, the ranch, was where the craft initially hit the ground and then bounced back up in the air to finally come down some distance away. Sort of a skip at high speed.
This is consistent with the "two incident" hypothesis. It also provides a gouge with debris. It provides a reason why the 509th Commander did what he did. It was something very unusual way out of his lane and he thought he was doing the right thing. That is until the hammer came down from above. Then we get weather balloon and I was mistaken.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-30-2021
(06-29-2021, 11:59 PM)ABNARTY Wrote: Only part way through but I too have always questions the mid-June finding. I accept one guy running a herd would not be able to drop everything and drive all over the countryside immediately. OK. But I lean more towards your finding date of that weekend in July...
As mentioned before, the structure of the narrative from the media and authors has been so corrupted that obtaining
the simple facts of what happened is difficult. But due to the worthiness required by those who desire interest from the
incident, genuine occurences at that time do indicate an unusual situation took place.
I mean the Wikipedia clip that states the June date, actually came from a website 'roswellproof.homestead.com',
and has no official standing in the regular place of mainstream news. I'm not casting aspersions on the site or David
Rudiak who created it, as it seems to be a repository of sourced-material, but the neutrality of that information will
always be doubted by those stick to the US Air force's narrative.
Here's the only mention of the month of June in the actual Wikipedia sourced-link and holds no relevance to the Roswell
situation:
"...One possibility was the UFO report of June 29 from a rancher in Cliff, N.M. of a shiny object crashing down.
Two AAF fliers went out to look but found nothing except a layer of "stinking air." This was a small story barely
reported even in New Mexico, but the Santa Fe UP office was probably aware of it..."
So where did the 14th June date come from?
In the many telexes from the RoswellProof.Homestead website, one of the messages is from 8th July and within it
is an indication of the initial date of Brazel's find:
SHERIFF GEORGE WILCOX (CORRECT) OF ROSWELL WAYS THAT THE DISC WAS
FOUND ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO BY A RANCHER BY THE NAME OF W. W. BRIZELL
ON THE FOSTER RANCH NEAR CORONA, ABOUT 75 MILES NORTHWEST OF ROSWELL
NEAR THE CENTER OF NEW MEXICO.
SHERIFF WILCOX SAYS THE RANCHER DOES NOT HAVE A TELEPHONE, AND
THAT HE DID NOT REPORT FINDING THE DISC UNTIL DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.
There may be more evidence out there that could narrow the scope of locating the exact date that Brazel first discovered
the debris on the ranch, but a woman who worked at KOAT Radio in Albuquerque, New Mexico at the time, does give us
an indication of the reality of when the discovery happened. There is also an interesting description of what this woman
heard about the wreckage.
....................................................................
My name is Lydia A Sleppy
My address is: XXXXXXXXXX
I am employed as: _________________________________
(X)I am retired: 9/30/77 from State of California, Dept. Parks & Recreation
In 1947, worked at KOAT Radio in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
My duties included operating the station's teletype machine, which received news and allowed us to send stories
to the ABC and Mutual networks, with which KOAT was affiliated.
In early July 1947, I received a call from John McBoyle, general manager and part-owner of KSWS Radio in Roswell,
New Mexico, which was associated with KOAT. I do not remember the exact date, but it definitely was a weekday
(I never worked weekends) and almost certainly after the Fourth of July. The call came in before noon.
McBoyle said he had something hot for the network. I asked Karl Lambertz, our program director and acting manager
(KOAT owner and manager Merle Tucker was out of town), to be present in my office while I took the story from McBoyle
and put it on the teletype.
Using the teletype, I alerted ABC News headquarters in Hollywood to expect an important story, and Mr. Lambertz stood
behind me while I typed. To the best of my recollection, McBoyle said, "There's been one of these flying saucer things crash
down here north of Roswell."
He said he had been in a coffee shop on his morning break when a local rancher, "Mac" Brazel, came in and said he had
discovered the object some time ago while he was out riding on the range, and that he had towed it in and stored it underneath
a shelter on his property. Brazel offered to take McBoyle to the ranch to see the object.
McBoyle described it as "a big crumpled dishpan."..'
SOURCE:
....................................................................
Based on just these two objective mentions of time, we can postulate that Mac Brazel found something on the Foster ranch
well-before the 4th, 5th and 6th of July 1947.
But since the publically-known media's introduction to the incident wasn't until 7th July, the selfishness of creating an eye-catching
article demands the emphasis belongs in the realm that the media can control. Hearsay from someone-who-knew-someone-who
-spoke-to-a-dumb-rancher is out-trumped in the media by an official dictum regarding a breath-taking admission that off-world
vehicles are crashing into our planet.
However, adhering to this manner of trusting authoritative sources -over a witness within the general public, ensures that if a change
in the narrative is required, the media have travelled far enough down the road of aligning with the official statement that a turnaround
would diminish the overall credibility of the story.
In the Sleppy affidavit, the lady comments that she never works weekends, this is another example to show that what Brazel found
couldn't be on Saturday (5th July) or Sunday (6th July) as the media implied. Even if we accepted that what Lydia Sleppy was
experiencing occurred on Friday (4th July), her boss' statement tells us that the 'big crumpled dishpan' was found 'some time ago'.
By the way, the next sentence in Sleppy's account contradicts the pushed report of 'scraps of foil and a some rubber sticks'.
You don't tow scraps of foil (presumably by horse or truck) from the desert floor for storage in a nearby shelter.
................................................................................
Quote:The Army's response was inconsistent with a weather balloon. Why send an Intelligence Officer out to recover what you know
is most likely a weather balloon? That is a mundane and routine occurrence they would send some schmucks out to retrieve.
Probably already had some folks assigned to the detail.
The Army's response was inconsistent with the Mogul balloons. Again, why send an Intelligence Officer out to what you suspect
is your highly classified project laying around in the unsecured desert scrub? You would send those involved with the project.
Those read-in on the mission. Marcel was in the S2/G2 slot for the base but NOT involved with Operation Mogul if what I have
read is accurate...
Like you say, the movement of the chess pieces on the board shows something of importance happened and no amount of
word-smithing can degrade that. Even if we stretch to the idea that Bill Brazel found the damaged remains of a sensitive
project to identify traces of Russian nuclear testing, was the information gathered in a form transmissible by radio signals?
If not, then the delicate -but important intelligence was aboard the aerial apparatus that was now on the ground and nobody
could find it or believed to be looking for it. Since the actual evidence stored in the balloon-attached device wouldn't be valuable
to the regular residents in the region, easy-going queries to locate the downed-rig would go some-way to obtaining the lost
equipment.
But that would be leaning towards the later-proposed narrative and at the time, the top-brass in the local military hadn't even
been notified of the project. Even if they had been, releasing such a ridiculous dispatch to a public unaware that anything
security-sensitive was taking place, would only bring attention to the situation.
It doesn't add-up.
Some guy found some crap in the desert and after looking at a portion of the material, a supposedly emotionally-detached
military sanctioned a public announcement that alien-life had come to Earth. Then after recanting such a world-shaking statement,
they moved the alleged evidence to another State and allowed the media to take photographs of trivial trash that can often be found
in places of meteorological experiments.
No ridicule of those in command from the newspapers, no serious dressing-down from superior military and Governmental officials,
just a 'It was all a misunderstanding folks' and with a gentle smile, the 509th Operations Group that dropped the atom bomb on
Hiroshima went back to letting the New Mexico sun make the jeeps tick with the summer heat.
Quote:The Army's response with detaining Mac Brazel is inconsistent with a weather balloon but maybe not the Mogul balloons.
However, if they mid-June finding date is indeed accurate, it might explain why they questioned him so long.
They would be suspicious of why it took so long to report it.
What was he doing with the material? Who had he spoken to? Who had he shown the material to? Why?
Perhaps I'll have more comments/questions as I work my way through this...
If Brazel's later comments are to be believed (verified by witnesses at the time), the few days he was kept at the Roswell Army Air Field
(known as Walker Air Force Base a year later) are an indicator that something happened that involved him and the military were
concerned enough to -not only keep him away from his family and the media, but possibly coerced him to admitting it might have been a
weather balloon that he found.
However, his later comment where he 'was brought' to the Radio Station KGFL and renounce his earlier suggestion of a flying disc,
tells a different story.
"...I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said.
"But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."
More to come?!
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - Bally002 - 06-30-2021
Such a good read. Took a while. Now 4.00am here. I'm off to sleep.
Thanks for posting this story. Your dissection of the incident kept me up but it was worth it.
Kind regards,
Bally:)
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - guohua - 06-30-2021
@"Bally002"
Good Night my friend, sleep well.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - BIAD - 06-30-2021
(06-30-2021, 07:06 PM)Bally002 Wrote: Such a good read. Took a while. Now 4.00am here. I'm off to sleep.
Thanks for posting this story. Your dissection of the incident kept me up but it was worth it.
Kind regards,
Bally:)
Cheers Bally, there is more.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - ABNARTY - 06-30-2021
(06-30-2021, 04:50 PM)BIAD Wrote:(06-29-2021, 11:59 PM)ABNARTY Wrote: Only part way through but I too have always questions the mid-June finding. I accept one guy running a herd would not be able to drop everything and drive all over the countryside immediately. OK. But I lean more towards your finding date of that weekend in July...
As mentioned before, the structure of the narrative from the media and authors has been so corrupted that obtaining
the simple facts of what happened is difficult. But due to the worthiness required by those who desire interest from the
incident, genuine occurences at that time do indicate an unusual situation took place.
I mean the Wikipedia clip that states the June date, actually came from a website 'roswellproof.homestead.com',
and has no official standing in the regular place of mainstream news. I'm not casting aspersions on the site or David
Rudiak who created it, as it seems to be a repository of sourced-material, but the neutrality of that information will
always be doubted by those stick to the US Air force's narrative.
Here's the only mention of the month of June in the actual Wikipedia sourced-link and holds no relevance to the Roswell
situation:
"...One possibility was the UFO report of June 29 from a rancher in Cliff, N.M. of a shiny object crashing down.
Two AAF fliers went out to look but found nothing except a layer of "stinking air." This was a small story barely
reported even in New Mexico, but the Santa Fe UP office was probably aware of it..."
So where did the 14th June date come from?
In the many telexes from the RoswellProof.Homestead website, one of the messages is from 8th July and within it
is an indication of the initial date of Brazel's find:
SHERIFF GEORGE WILCOX (CORRECT) OF ROSWELL WAYS THAT THE DISC WAS
FOUND ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO BY A RANCHER BY THE NAME OF W. W. BRIZELL
ON THE FOSTER RANCH NEAR CORONA, ABOUT 75 MILES NORTHWEST OF ROSWELL
NEAR THE CENTER OF NEW MEXICO.
SHERIFF WILCOX SAYS THE RANCHER DOES NOT HAVE A TELEPHONE, AND
THAT HE DID NOT REPORT FINDING THE DISC UNTIL DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.
There may be more evidence out there that could narrow the scope of locating the exact date that Brazel first discovered
the debris on the ranch, but a woman who worked at KOAT Radio in Albuquerque, New Mexico at the time, does give us
an indication of the reality of when the discovery happened. There is also an interesting description of what this woman
heard about the wreckage.
....................................................................
My name is Lydia A Sleppy
My address is: XXXXXXXXXX
I am employed as: _________________________________
(X)I am retired: 9/30/77 from State of California, Dept. Parks & Recreation
In 1947, worked at KOAT Radio in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
My duties included operating the station's teletype machine, which received news and allowed us to send stories
to the ABC and Mutual networks, with which KOAT was affiliated.
In early July 1947, I received a call from John McBoyle, general manager and part-owner of KSWS Radio in Roswell,
New Mexico, which was associated with KOAT. I do not remember the exact date, but it definitely was a weekday
(I never worked weekends) and almost certainly after the Fourth of July. The call came in before noon.
McBoyle said he had something hot for the network. I asked Karl Lambertz, our program director and acting manager
(KOAT owner and manager Merle Tucker was out of town), to be present in my office while I took the story from McBoyle
and put it on the teletype.
Using the teletype, I alerted ABC News headquarters in Hollywood to expect an important story, and Mr. Lambertz stood
behind me while I typed. To the best of my recollection, McBoyle said, "There's been one of these flying saucer things crash
down here north of Roswell."
He said he had been in a coffee shop on his morning break when a local rancher, "Mac" Brazel, came in and said he had
discovered the object some time ago while he was out riding on the range, and that he had towed it in and stored it underneath
a shelter on his property. Brazel offered to take McBoyle to the ranch to see the object.
McBoyle described it as "a big crumpled dishpan."..'
SOURCE:
....................................................................
Based on just these two objective mentions of time, we can postulate that Mac Brazel found something on the Foster ranch
well-before the 4th, 5th and 6th of July 1947.
But since the publically-known media's introduction to the incident wasn't until 7th July, the selfishness of creating an eye-catching
article demands the emphasis belongs in the realm that the media can control. Hearsay from someone-who-knew-someone-who
-spoke-to-a-dumb-rancher is out-trumped in the media by an official dictum regarding a breath-taking admission that off-world
vehicles are crashing into our planet.
However, adhering to this manner of trusting authoritative sources -over a witness within the general public, ensures that if a change
in the narrative is required, the media have travelled far enough down the road of aligning with the official statement that a turnaround
would diminish the overall credibility of the story.
In the Sleppy affidavit, the lady comments that she never works weekends, this is another example to show that what Brazel found
couldn't be on Saturday (5th July) or Sunday (6th July) as the media implied. Even if we accepted that what Lydia Sleppy was
experiencing occurred on Friday (4th July), her boss' statement tells us that the 'big crumpled dishpan' was found 'some time ago'.
By the way, the next sentence in Sleppy's account contradicts the pushed report of 'scraps of foil and a some rubber sticks'.
You don't tow scraps of foil (presumably by horse or truck) from the desert floor for storage in a nearby shelter.
................................................................................
Quote:The Army's response was inconsistent with a weather balloon. Why send an Intelligence Officer out to recover what you know
is most likely a weather balloon? That is a mundane and routine occurrence they would send some schmucks out to retrieve.
Probably already had some folks assigned to the detail.
The Army's response was inconsistent with the Mogul balloons. Again, why send an Intelligence Officer out to what you suspect
is your highly classified project laying around in the unsecured desert scrub? You would send those involved with the project.
Those read-in on the mission. Marcel was in the S2/G2 slot for the base but NOT involved with Operation Mogul if what I have
read is accurate...
Like you say, the movement of the chess pieces on the board shows something of importance happened and no amount of
word-smithing can degrade that. Even if we stretch to the idea that Bill Brazel found the damaged remains of a sensitive
project to identify traces of Russian nuclear testing, was the information gathered in a form transmissible by radio signals?
If not, then the delicate -but important intelligence was aboard the aerial apparatus that was now on the ground and nobody
could find it or believed to be looking for it. Since the actual evidence stored in the balloon-attached device wouldn't be valuable
to the regular residents in the region, easy-going queries to locate the downed-rig would go some-way to obtaining the lost
equipment.
But that would be leaning towards the later-proposed narrative and at the time, the top-brass in the local military hadn't even
been notified of the project. Even if they had been, releasing such a ridiculous dispatch to a public unaware that anything
security-sensitive was taking place, would only bring attention to the situation.
It doesn't add-up.
Some guy found some crap in the desert and after looking at a portion of the material, a supposedly emotionally-detached
military sanctioned a public announcement that alien-life had come to Earth. Then after recanting such a world-shaking statement,
they moved the alleged evidence to another State and allowed the media to take photographs of trivial trash that can often be found
in places of meteorological experiments.
No ridicule of those in command from the newspapers, no serious dressing-down from superior military and Governmental officials,
just a 'It was all a misunderstanding folks' and with a gentle smile, the 509th Operations Group that dropped the atom bomb on
Hiroshima went back to letting the New Mexico sun make the jeeps tick with the summer heat.
Quote:The Army's response with detaining Mac Brazel is inconsistent with a weather balloon but maybe not the Mogul balloons.
However, if they mid-June finding date is indeed accurate, it might explain why they questioned him so long.
They would be suspicious of why it took so long to report it.
What was he doing with the material? Who had he spoken to? Who had he shown the material to? Why?
Perhaps I'll have more comments/questions as I work my way through this...
If Brazel's later comments are to be believed (verified by witnesses at the time), the few days he was kept at the Roswell Army Air Field
(known as Walker Air Force Base a year later) are an indicator that something happened that involved him and the military were
concerned enough to -not only keep him away from his family and the media, but possibly coerced him to admitting it might have been a
weather balloon that he found.
However, his later comment where he 'was brought' to the Radio Station KGFL and renounce his earlier suggestion of a flying disc,
tells a different story.
"...I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said.
"But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."
More to come?!
So the mid-June date may have originated with the Sheriff's statement at the time?
The McBoyle portion I was unaware of. According to Sleepy's statement, McBoyle heard Brazel say he had towed in a craft(?) from his range, "sometime ago". And who knows how long that means. A few hours? A day? A week?
And Brazel was kept at the base. No doubt. He had a ranch to run. A herd to tend to. There is no way he would just up and leave his livelihood unattended to stay at the 'guest quarters' for no good reason.
I want to reword my opinion on him being detained and the Mogul balloon stuff. It would not have mattered if it had been an hour or a month, he would get questioned for some time. He would also be "debriefed". Evidence of that is the retraction on the radio. Still, I do not believe it was even a Mogul balloon.
RE: Mac Brazel & The Debris. An Opinion. - Bally002 - 07-01-2021
(06-30-2021, 07:36 PM)BIAD Wrote:No worries mate. I'll await the next installment. I like a good read.(06-30-2021, 07:06 PM)Bally002 Wrote: Such a good read. Took a while. Now 4.00am here. I'm off to sleep.
Thanks for posting this story. Your dissection of the incident kept me up but it was worth it.
Kind regards,
Bally:)
Cheers Bally, there is more.
Kind regards,
Bally:)