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Boxing Harry and the mythology of the Full English Breakfast
#1
Nobody in England eats a “Full English Breakfast”, when they’re catering for themselves. They just make breakfast.
 
Just as Cornish housewives would send their men down the tin-mine with a pasty, rather than a “Cornish pasty”, and Americans do not feel the need to call their national sport “American football”. We can take it as a rule of thumb that nicknames indicating a place of origin are not normally used IN the place of origin, which rather gives the game away.
 
The Full English Breakfast as it is known today is a commercial product consumed by tourists, from home or abroad, and created by the establishments which cater for them.
 
The starting-point must have been “bacon and eggs”, a simple and convenient meal in farming circles, and certainly not unique to England. I notice that Edward Lear was fed with macaroni, scrambled eggs, and bacon by one peasant family during his tour of Calabria.
 
Another intriguing literary reference comes from “Wild Wales”. George Borrow was told at a hostelry that they had not much to offer him for dinner except for bacon and eggs. His reply was “I will have the bacon and eggs with tea and bread-and-butter, not forgetting a pint of ale- in a word, I will box Harry”. The words “box Harry” prompted the lady to assume that he must be “a commercial gent”. Later in the chapter, he admits that he has never been able to discover where the expression came from. Google hasn’t either. My own theory is that it comes from “old Harry”, meaning the devil, and here representing the pangs of hunger. That simple meal is just enough to stifle the pangs and put old Harry back in his box. Anyway, that meal (probably, but not necessarily, omitting the pint of ale) is recognisable as a fairly standard English breakfast of the twentieth century.
 
The obvious reference point on cookery questions is “what mother used to make”. We frequently had fried breakfasts cooked on a small gas stove in a caravan somewhere in the heart of Scotland. I remember the typical meal as eggs, bacon, halves of tomato, and fried bread. The bread had a large footprint in the pan, so it would be cooked first and then kept warm in the grill space under the gas-rings. My mother was cooking in lard, which remained in the pan to be topped up and used again the following day. For me, a well-cooked slice of bread saturated with bacon-flavoured lard is part of the authentic taste of a fried breakfast.
 
There would also be a pot of tea on the table, of course, and jars of things to be spread on the bread-and-butter. Jam (probably Hartleys); marmalade (probably Robertson’s Golden Shred, labelled with the cheerful and now banned golliwog figure); frequently lemon curd; perhaps Marmite. I remember Dad picking up a jar of Whisky marmalade on one trip.
 
Let’s notice some of the things that are missing from this menu.
Baked beans. The whole point of a fried breakfast is doing everything in one pan. Beans would have required an extra saucepan, so they were more likely to appear later in the day.
Mushrooms. We would not have seen mushrooms on sale before supermarkets came along. If we had been sure about the difference between (edible) mushrooms and (poisonous) toadstools, we might have been able to find them in the woods.
Black pudding. We were not northerners.
Hash browns, or potato in any other form. We were not Americans. And we did not have domestic freezers. In fact the caravan didn’t even have a refrigerator.
 
That was what happened in domestic life. I’m convinced that the modern “Full English Breakfast” is a commercial development driven by the competitive needs of bed-and-breakfast landladies.
 
It would have begun in the Sixties. More families then were taking their summer holidays “on the Continent”, as we say. They discovered that hotels there tended to serve an uncooked breakfast, which made the uncooked breakfast more fashionable. In order to compete with this trend, the lodgings in English resorts began offering what they would call a “Continental breakfast”, even if it wasn’t much more than coffee and a basket-full of croissants. But this meant they also needed a proper name for the traditional option. Otherwise the waitress would have come out sounding like the dialogue on a saucy McGill postcard; “Will you take the Continental breakfast, or do you want a bit of the other?” So that, I think, is the real origin of the term “English breakfast”.
 
It's important to note that “Full-English” is a single expression, pronounced almost as a single word. I’m sure anyone who has ever heard it in situ will back me up on that point. “English” means “not-Continental”, and one implication of the word “full” is “not uncooked”. So part of the original meaning of ”Do you want the Full-English”  was “Do you want the native cooked breakfast instead of the exotic coffee and croissants?” But the expression also covers the fact that the plated meal itself is not the entire breakfast; it embraces the tea or coffee, your opening cereal and/or fruit juice, and the toast and accompaniments, which are all included in the concept and the price.
 
Then over the decades, in competition with each other, they began giving extra value to the word “full”, taking it as meaning that more items should be piled onto the main plate. Hence the combination of bacon and sausage, the addition of baked beans, mushrooms, hash browns, whatever they could think of.
 
But I think the addition of black pudding must come from the food theorists, who seem to have turned it into something of a gourmet item. I have stayed in bed-and-breakfast houses from Oban round to Caernarvon (clockwise, of course), and I have never yet seen black pudding on a breakfast menu. Having said that, I’ve never been to Blackpool.
 
On the other hand, ironically, the one item that often disappears from the social media version of the menu is fried bread. Undoubtedly authentic, very capable of making the plate “full”, but not trendy enough. Health reasons, I suppose.
 
So it seems to me that the Full English Breakfast which I now find celebrated on You-tube or even mentioned on ATS has become something of an artificial meme (if that’s the right word).  The act of eating an overly-full platter is presented as a challenge, although essential features like tea and toast have been left out of the equation. I would say that the Britishness of that experience is a little forced. If you want to share the authentic taste of British culture at the breakfast table, all you really need to do is to box Harry.
#2
And now I have to go eat my simple breakfast of yeast rolls, left over from dinner. Rice cakes, from the rice left over from dinner. Slices of sirloin, left over from dinner, with scrambled eggs and coffee.
Oh, and apple butter on the rolls.
My standard breakfast. Any concoction, left over from dinner.
minusculebeercheers

For every one person that read this post. About 7.99 billion have not. 

Yet I still post.  tinyinlove
  • minusculebeercheers 


#3
Thank the Good Lord above for American heart-stopping full breakfast. At Waffle House or someplace similar. 

Eggs, toast, pancakes, hash browns, bacon, steak, and a half gallon of orange juice. 

Full disclosure, I spent about 6 months in England when I was younger. Ate a bunch of their breakfasts. My landlady fried red tomatoes with it. Why she was frying salad with the meal, I have no idea. And Wheatabix with a shovel full of sugar on it. OK, the sugar was my idea to get it down the gullet.
#4
(04-23-2022, 04:56 PM)ABNARTY Wrote: Thank the Good Lord above for American heart-stopping full breakfast. At Waffle House or someplace similar. 

Eggs, toast, pancakes, hash browns, bacon, steak, and a half gallon of orange juice. 

Full disclosure, I spent about 6 months in England when I was younger. Ate a bunch of their breakfasts. My landlady fried red tomatoes with it. Why she was frying salad with the meal, I have no idea. And Wheatabix with a shovel full of sugar on it. OK, the sugar was my idea to get it down the gullet.

The hot red tomato goes best on top of the fried bread, which soaks up the juice to add an extra element to the flavour.
#5
(04-23-2022, 04:56 PM)ABNARTY Wrote:  
....And Wheatabix with a shovel full of sugar on it. OK, the sugar was my idea to get it down the gullet.

A relation of my wife's eats the Wheatabix dry with butter smeared on them!
tinybiggrin
Edith Head Gives Good Wardrobe. 
#6
I think I experienced a degree of culture shock just reading that.

In my neck of the woods, "fried bread" didn't come in slices. Ma used to make it, but she made it out of corn meal and diced onions, frying it into "fritters" from batter made of corn meal with the other flavorings mixed in, like the aforementioned onions. I think the technology of it must have come down through an Indian branch of the family, and that it probably originated as "fry bread", but what Indians cook as fry bread now bears only a slight resemblance, being made of wheat flour as it is. So our "fried bread", while fried, looked more like a bastardized pancake made out of corn meal and whatever else was handy.

But at least we did use lard or leftover bacon grease to fry it in, so there is that commonality.

I am mystified by the reference to potatoes in connection with a need for a freezer. We never kept potatoes in a freezer, we instead kept them in a root cellar, being "root crops" as they are... then again, we stored them as the whole tuber, and only processed them into whatever their final form was going to be at the point of cooking,

Tea at breakfast is a novel and alien concept here in the South. It's rare enough to find folks drinking hot tea. Southerners generally drink it cold, very cold, and with way too damned much sugar in it. I'm one of the rare breed here that ever drinks it hot, a habit I picked up during one of our sub-zero winters years ago, drinking it more for the heat than for the caffeine. Nowadays, the only tea I drink is Green Tea, more for the antioxidants than anything else.

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#7
(04-23-2022, 06:02 PM)Ninurta Wrote: I think I experienced a degree of culture shock just reading that.

In my neck of the woods, "fried bread" didn't come in slices. Ma used to make it, but she made it out of corn meal and diced onions, frying it into "fritters" from batter made of corn meal with the other flavorings mixed in, like the aforementioned onions. I think the technology of it must have come down through an Indian branch of the family, and that it probably originated as "fry bread", but what Indians cook as fry bread now bears only a slight resemblance, being made of wheat flour as it is. So our "fried bread", while fried, looked more like a bastardized pancake made out of corn meal and whatever else was handy.

But at least we did use lard or leftover bacon grease to fry it in, so there is that commonality.

I am mystified by the reference to potatoes in connection with a need for a freezer. We never kept potatoes in a freezer, we instead kept them in a root cellar, being "root crops" as they are... then again, we stored them as the whole tuber, and only processed them into whatever their final form was going to be at the point of cooking,

Tea at breakfast is a novel and alien concept here in the South. It's rare enough to find folks drinking hot tea. Southerners generally drink it cold, very cold, and with way too damned much sugar in it. I'm one of the rare breed here that ever drinks it hot, a habit I picked up during one of our sub-zero winters years ago, drinking it more for the heat than for the caffeine. Nowadays, the only tea I drink is Green Tea, more for the antioxidants than anything else.

.
Oh, yes, throwing pre-sliced bread into the pan is very quick and convenient, which is part of the point. When commercial caterers add hash browns, chips etc they will certainly be using pre-packaged products out of the freezer. As for peeling and slicing fresh potatoes, that again misses the point of quickness and convenience.
I take it, then, that southern gentlemen never fell into the habit of getting up, making a pot of tea, and then taking their wives a cup of tea in bed, as my dad always used to do.
#8
I had to look-up "Black pudding" as I never heard the term.

Quote:A Guide To Traditional Black Pudding

Black pudding is a kind of sausage, except that unlike normal sausages, you make it with blood. To make a black pudding, you cook blood mixed with a filler (oatmeal) until it is thick enough to congeal when cooled and because of this, black pudding is one of those things people either love or hate.

The only time I ever ate fried bread (the American version) was as a kid during the summer at carnivals, fairs, 4th of July fireworks.
"The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme." – Daniel Quinn

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that." ― John Lennon

Rogue News says that the US is a reality show posing as an Empire.


#9
(04-23-2022, 05:41 PM)BIAD Wrote:
(04-23-2022, 04:56 PM)ABNARTY Wrote:  
....And Wheatabix with a shovel full of sugar on it. OK, the sugar was my idea to get it down the gullet.

A relation of my wife's eats the Wheatabix dry with butter smeared on them!
tinybiggrin

They are welcome to all they want. I'll pass. 

And yes I know wheatabix is just a giant mini-wheat sans flavor.
#10
(04-23-2022, 05:37 PM)DISRAELI Wrote:
(04-23-2022, 04:56 PM)ABNARTY Wrote: Thank the Good Lord above for American heart-stopping full breakfast. At Waffle House or someplace similar. 

Eggs, toast, pancakes, hash browns, bacon, steak, and a half gallon of orange juice. 

Full disclosure, I spent about 6 months in England when I was younger. Ate a bunch of their breakfasts. My landlady fried red tomatoes with it. Why she was frying salad with the meal, I have no idea. And Wheatabix with a shovel full of sugar on it. OK, the sugar was my idea to get it down the gullet.

The hot red tomato goes best on top of the fried bread, which soaks up the juice to add an extra element to the flavour.

So... tomato juice goes on the bread. I'll trust you on that one. 

I thought maybe she was just trying to get rid if tomatoes which went bad. Feed them to the Gringo.
#11
(04-23-2022, 02:38 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: And now I have to go eat my simple breakfast of yeast rolls, left over from dinner. Rice cakes, from the rice left over from dinner. Slices of sirloin, left over from dinner, with scrambled eggs and coffee.
Oh, and apple butter on the rolls.
My standard breakfast. Any concoction, left over from dinner.
minusculebeercheers

Much the same here.  Mashed curried peas over a pie heated in a microwave for breakfast this morning.  Left over from last nights effort.  Oh and 2 strong cups of Nescafe's finest Blend 43.

Bally

minusculebeercheers
#12
(04-23-2022, 06:30 PM)DISRAELI Wrote:
(04-23-2022, 06:02 PM)Ninurta Wrote: I think I experienced a degree of culture shock just reading that.

In my neck of the woods, "fried bread" didn't come in slices. Ma used to make it, but she made it out of corn meal and diced onions, frying it into "fritters" from batter made of corn meal with the other flavorings mixed in, like the aforementioned onions. I think the technology of it must have come down through an Indian branch of the family, and that it probably originated as "fry bread", but what Indians cook as fry bread now bears only a slight resemblance, being made of wheat flour as it is. So our "fried bread", while fried, looked more like a bastardized pancake made out of corn meal and whatever else was handy.

But at least we did use lard or leftover bacon grease to fry it in, so there is that commonality.

I am mystified by the reference to potatoes in connection with a need for a freezer. We never kept potatoes in a freezer, we instead kept them in a root cellar, being "root crops" as they are... then again, we stored them as the whole tuber, and only processed them into whatever their final form was going to be at the point of cooking,

Tea at breakfast is a novel and alien concept here in the South. It's rare enough to find folks drinking hot tea. Southerners generally drink it cold, very cold, and with way too damned much sugar in it. I'm one of the rare breed here that ever drinks it hot, a habit I picked up during one of our sub-zero winters years ago, drinking it more for the heat than for the caffeine. Nowadays, the only tea I drink is Green Tea, more for the antioxidants than anything else.

.
Oh, yes, throwing pre-sliced bread into the pan is very quick and convenient, which is part of the point. When commercial caterers add hash browns, chips etc they will certainly be using pre-packaged products out of the freezer. As for peeling and slicing fresh potatoes, that again misses the point of quickness and convenience.
I take it, then, that southern gentlemen never fell into the habit of getting up, making a pot of tea, and then taking their wives a cup of tea in bed, as my dad always used to do.

If I'm doing the fried bread thing I cut a hole in the slice and crack an egg into it. and separately fry the piece I cut out.  Flip the egg slice, then onto a plate with fried tomato and onions.  Bacon if it's in the fridge too.  Dabs of Worcestershire Sauce here and there.

Bally:)
#13
(04-23-2022, 11:30 PM)Bally002 Wrote: If I'm doing the fried bread thing I cut a hole in the slice and crack an egg into it. and separately fry the piece I cut out.  Flip the egg slice, then onto a plate with fried tomato and onions.  Bacon if it's in the fridge too.  Dabs of Worcestershire Sauce here and there.

Bally:)

"Bird in a nest"! I grew up on that. Had it for brunch about six weeks ago.

I grew up poor, not knowing it until I was fully grown. So when my Mother used to tell us that breakfast food was whatever you ate for breakfast, and dinner food was whatever food you ate for dinner. I just thought she was being edgy. I didn't realize until years later, that she was just feeding what she had available.

She was quite creative with meals, and we never went hungry. Her only rule about food was that you could not say you didn't like something, until you had given it an earnest try. If you ate it, and decided you didn't like it, she would not make you eat it. She just doled it out in equal amounts to those that did want it. And you just went hungry.

Over time this method helped me develop an acquired taste for many things I thought I did not like. Asparagus and beans, being at the top of that list.

For every one person that read this post. About 7.99 billion have not. 

Yet I still post.  tinyinlove
  • minusculebeercheers 


#14
(04-23-2022, 06:30 PM)DISRAELI Wrote: Oh, yes, throwing pre-sliced bread into the pan is very quick and convenient, which is part of the point. When commercial caterers add hash browns, chips etc they will certainly be using pre-packaged products out of the freezer. As for peeling and slicing fresh potatoes, that again misses the point of quickness and convenience.
I take it, then, that southern gentlemen never fell into the habit of getting up, making a pot of tea, and then taking their wives a cup of tea in bed, as my dad always used to do.

Nope, we never got in that habit. Matter of fact, I think that if Grace didn't outright slap me, she'd at least give me "the look" if I attempted to serve her tea in bed!

She's a Midwesterner rather than a Southerner, but seems to be acclimating nicely.

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#15
(04-23-2022, 11:57 PM)Ninurta Wrote:
(04-23-2022, 06:30 PM)DISRAELI Wrote: Oh, yes, throwing pre-sliced bread into the pan is very quick and convenient, which is part of the point. When commercial caterers add hash browns, chips etc they will certainly be using pre-packaged products out of the freezer. As for peeling and slicing fresh potatoes, that again misses the point of quickness and convenience.
I take it, then, that southern gentlemen never fell into the habit of getting up, making a pot of tea, and then taking their wives a cup of tea in bed, as my dad always used to do.

Nope, we never got in that habit. Matter of fact, I think that if Grace didn't outright slap me, she'd at least give me "the look" if I attempted to serve her tea in bed!

She's a Midwesterner rather than a Southerner, but seems to be acclimating nicely.

.
Hmm, try a different method of serving her in bed.  Maybe a leering smile.  Or say something romantic like, "I not wearing any underpants."  Followed by a stifled cough.

But stand back.

Kind regards,

Bally:)


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