Latest S2 Update on Ukraine

[Grace]

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons

I agree...

P.S.

You will have to forgive me somewhat in discussion as I'm a bit slow sometimes in reading links etc. I have cataracts and can't see out of one eye, and the second is on it's way. I'm going to have eye surgery, it's very correctable, but I've got a couple things that need done before that. So for now I'm just slow... Lol

[putnam6]

Ive been following here sounds like we are gonna be here for the long haul.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgro...t-march-20


Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 20

Mason Clark, George Barros, and Kateryna Stepanenko

March 20, 4:00pm ET 

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 20

Mason Clark, George Barros, and Kateryna Stepanenko

March 20, 4:00pm ET 

Russian forces did not make any major advances on March 20. Russian forces around Kyiv are increasingly establishing defensive positions and preparing to deploy further artillery and fire control assets. Ukrainian forces repelled continuing Russian efforts to seize the city of Izyum, southeast of Kharkiv, and Russian forces did not conduct any other offensive operations in northeast Ukraine. Russian forces continue to make slow but steady progress on Luhansk Oblast and around Mariupol, but did not conduct any offensive operations towards Mykolayiv or Kryvyi Rih.

Key Takeaways

• The Ukrainian General Staff reported for the first time that the Kremlin is preparing its population for a “long war” in Ukraine and implementing increasingly draconian mobilization measures, including deploying youth military organization members aged 17-18.
  
  
• Ukrainian forces reportedly killed three Russian regimental commanders in the last 24 hours.
  
  
• Russia’s Wagner Group will likely facilitate the deployment of Libyan fighters to Ukraine.
  
  
• Russian forces are digging in to positions around Kyiv, including the first reports of the war of Russian forces deploying minefields.
  
  
• Ukrainian forces repelled a Russian assault on Izyum, southeast of Kharkiv, and inflicted heavy casualties.
  
  
• Russian forces continued their slow advance into Mariupol but did not achieve any major territorial gains.
  
  
• Ukrainian forces launched further localized counterattacks around Mykolayiv.
  

[guohua]

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons

I agree...

P.S.

You will have to forgive me somewhat in discussion as I'm a bit slow sometimes in reading links etc. I have cataracts and can't see out of one eye, and the second is on it's way. I'm going to have eye surgery, it's very correctable, but I've got a couple things that need done before that. So for now I'm just slow... Lol

@"Grace" 
Oh!
My Dear Friend, Most large links and post I have to copy into Mandarin Chinese to read and Fully Digest and Respond later.
So, I'm Slow To, 

[Grace]

Ive been following here sounds like we are gonna be here for the long haul.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgro...t-march-20

I would honestly caution against taking every assessment from Washington and militarily entrenched think tanks. Not that there may not be some truth told, but they are definitely military industrial complex funded, and their bias is real and leans to war, so assessments of potential future "mights" are likely to always take a certain tack. 

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki...udy_of_War

[Grace]

@"Grace" 
Oh!
My Dear Friend, Most large links and post I have to copy into Mandarin Chinese to read and Fully Digest and Respond later.
So, I'm Slow To, 

We will just be slow together! :)

[All2human]

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons

I agree...

P.S.

You will have to forgive me somewhat in discussion as I'm a bit slow sometimes in reading links etc. I have cataracts and can't see out of one eye, and the second is on it's way. I'm going to have eye surgery, it's very correctable, but I've got a couple things that need done before that. So for now I'm just slow... Lol

Russia is hellbent on a land bridge to Crimea, Mauripol will probably fall over the next week, the rest of Ukraine does look like a stalemate
esp around kiev.
controlling the Azov sea looks to be a forgone conclusion already.
Hope there can be a ceasefire ,peace talks and a speedy withdrawal soon.
But even with a cessation of hostilities,i really cant see Russia recovering politically from this.
my opinion of course

[yuppa]

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons

I agree...

P.S.

You will have to forgive me somewhat in discussion as I'm a bit slow sometimes in reading links etc. I have cataracts and can't see out of one eye, and the second is on it's way. I'm going to have eye surgery, it's very correctable, but I've got a couple things that need done before that. So for now I'm just slow... Lol

Russia is hellbent on a land bridge to Crimea, Mauripol will probably fall over the next week, the rest of Ukraine does look like a stalemate
esp around kiev.
controlling the Azov sea looks to be a forgone conclusion already.
Hope there can be a ceasefire ,peace talks and a speedy withdrawal soon.
But even with a cessation of hostilities,i really cant see Russia recovering politically from this.
my opinion of course

Russia is screwed for at least the next 50 yrs.

[hounddoghowlie]

Ive been following here sounds like we are gonna be here for the long haul.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgro...t-march-20

I would honestly caution against taking every assessment from Washington and militarily entrenched think tanks. Not that there may not be some truth told, but they are definitely military industrial complex funded, and their bias is real and leans to war, so assessments of potential future "mights" are likely to always take a certain tack. 

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki...udy_of_War

One point made in the assessment,

Russia’s Wagner Group will likely facilitate the deployment of Libyan fighters to Ukraine.

That seems to be verified by a Libyan MSM and the part about Wagner leading also seems to be true, their russia's version of blackwater.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said Khalifa Haftar had visited Moscow and promised to send Libyan volunteers to fight alongside Russia in Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said it is expected that Russian mercenary group, Wagner, will organize the flights of the Libyan fighters on Russian air force planes.
Meanwhile, Haftar’s private jet, Dassault Falcon-900 P4-RMA, which he uses in most of his travels, landed on March 16 in Moscow coming from the United Arab Emirates and left on March 18 to Austria and then Italy.
Libyan political analyst, Noman Benothman, who was once Haftar’s advisor and turned later to become his opponent, said Haftar’s sons were on the private jet to Moscow which they visited three times in the last ten days, according to his sources.

Ukrainian Defense Ministry: Haftar offered Russia Libyan fighters

The private military company Wagner Group is the most decisive player in the military strategy of the Libyan national army, headed by Marshal Khalifa Haftar. Acting as a Russian foreign legion without the constraints of international or Russian law, it has become an instrument of power play for Vladimir Putin. Before addressing Wagner Group, it is wise to understand the roots of Russian institutional mercenarism and the reasons why Wagner is the product of a long process that has always skirted the edge of legality in Russia.

Wagner in Libya – combat and influence

Maybe more to it than meets the eye.

Edit, Didn't putin recently say that 16,000 middle eastern fighters are going to join his forces in Ukraine.

[Snarl]

But even with a cessation of hostilities, I really cant see Russia recovering politically from this.

Which is why Russia has no intentions of ceasing hostilities.  When something is so blatantly obvious, the leaders of countries haven't missed it either.

There is no Russian stalemate.  Putin is surrounding his prizes.  He's suppressing any fire from those goals for a limited time ... only long enough for his troops to pull back out of range.

Do you know what happens to an area when it runs out of food?  It quits.  Up to now, anyone quitting from the Ukrainian side has been attacked by Ukrainian forces (under the orders of Zelensky).  When a whole city begins to starve, the standing orders will no longer be enforced.  Putin knows this too.

And, all of this is why ... it is imperative to involve NATO and esp. the USA in the fight.  Ukraine is going to lose if Russia maintains air superiority over the country.  Their USA installed government is going to be toppled.  And, the goose ain't gonna be laying anymore US taxpayer funded golden eggs for our corrupt US politicians to harvest.

Putin fired one missile and destroyed $400 million dollars worth of equipment supplied by the US taxpayer ... plus ... over two hundred freedom fighters died in the snow and cold (before they ever got into the game).

Not a big fan of Putin.  I just don't have him listed as an enemy of America.  People can say, "But ... But ... But ... He invaded!!" all damned day long.  If Putin had a reason to invade ... that's something that needs to be talked about and understood.  One country being invaded by another country is well documented throughout the history of our world.  What?  Is it only the leader of Russia who is not allowed to follow in the footsteps of history.  Because, who says so?

Why are we listening to all the drama queens labeling Putin as the Bad Guy here?  What if he's not?  What if the real culprit is the USA and the corrupt politicians of the USA meddling in Ukrainian's government that caused Putin to invade?  Do you think the Fake News Media is going to factually report our culpability in Putin's decision to invade?  I don't think so.

[All2human]

But even with a cessation of hostilities, I really cant see Russia recovering politically from this.

Which is why Russia has no intentions of ceasing hostilities.  When something is so blatantly obvious, the leaders of countries haven't missed it either.

There is no Russian stalemate.  Putin is surrounding his prizes.  He's suppressing any fire from those goals for a limited time ... only long enough for his troops to pull back out of range.

Do you know what happens to an area when it runs out of food?  It quits.  Up to now, anyone quitting from the Ukrainian side has been attacked by Ukrainian forces (under the orders of Zelensky).  When a whole city begins to starve, the standing orders will no longer be enforced.  Putin knows this too.

And, all of this is why ... it is imperative to involve NATO and esp. the USA in the fight.  Ukraine is going to lose if Russia maintains air superiority over the country.  Their USA installed government is going to be toppled.  And, the goose ain't gonna be laying anymore US taxpayer funded golden eggs for our corrupt US politicians to harvest.

Putin fired one missile and destroyed $400 million dollars worth of equipment supplied by the US taxpayer ... plus ... over two hundred freedom fighters died in the snow and cold (before they ever got into the game).

Not a big fan of Putin.  I just don't have him listed as an enemy of America.  People can say, "But ... But ... But ... He invaded!!" all damned day long.  If Putin had a reason to invade ... that's something that needs to be talked about and understood.  One country being invaded by another country is well documented throughout the history of our world.  What?  Is it only the leader of Russia who is not allowed to follow in the footsteps of history.  Because, who says so?

Why are we listening to all the drama queens labeling Putin as the Bad Guy here?  What if he's not?  What if the real culprit is the USA and the corrupt politicians of the USA meddling in Ukrainian's government that caused Putin to invade?  Do you think the Fake News Media is going to factually report our culpability in Putin's decision to invade?  I don't think so.

I accept there are two sides,and both have good points
but the world has moved on from nations invading other countries and hoisting up their flags.

[Snarl]

but the world has moved on from nations invading other countries and hoisting up their flags.

North Korea threatens to do that to South Korea all the time.

China is threatening such action against Taiwan.

Who's going to eliminate Israel?

And right here, we've got Putin proving that ... it does ... and will ... and is ... happening as I type this reply.

[All2human]

but the world has moved on from nations invading other countries and hoisting up their flags.

North Korea threatens to do that to South Korea all the time.

China is threatening such action against Taiwan.

Who's going to eliminate Israel?

And right here, we've got Putin proving that ... it does ... and will ... and is ... happening as I type this reply.

NATO meddling with Ukraine is/was also a factor
But i wouldn't punch my neighbor because his flood light overlooks my patio.
i understand it is aggravating, but there are other ways of solving problems
besides
Russia has alliance countries Estonia and Latvia on its border with little issue.

[Grace]

One point made in the assessment,

Russia’s Wagner Group will likely facilitate the deployment of Libyan fighters to Ukraine.

That seems to be verified by a Libyan MSM and the part about Wagner leading also seems to be true, their russia's version of blackwater.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said Khalifa Haftar had visited Moscow and promised to send Libyan volunteers to fight alongside Russia in Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said it is expected that Russian mercenary group, Wagner, will organize the flights of the Libyan fighters on Russian air force planes.
Meanwhile, Haftar’s private jet, Dassault Falcon-900 P4-RMA, which he uses in most of his travels, landed on March 16 in Moscow coming from the United Arab Emirates and left on March 18 to Austria and then Italy.
Libyan political analyst, Noman Benothman, who was once Haftar’s advisor and turned later to become his opponent, said Haftar’s sons were on the private jet to Moscow which they visited three times in the last ten days, according to his sources.

Ukrainian Defense Ministry: Haftar offered Russia Libyan fighters

The private military company Wagner Group is the most decisive player in the military strategy of the Libyan national army, headed by Marshal Khalifa Haftar. Acting as a Russian foreign legion without the constraints of international or Russian law, it has become an instrument of power play for Vladimir Putin. Before addressing Wagner Group, it is wise to understand the roots of Russian institutional mercenarism and the reasons why Wagner is the product of a long process that has always skirted the edge of legality in Russia.

Wagner in Libya – combat and influence

Maybe more to it than meets the eye.

Edit, Didn't putin recently say that 16,000 middle eastern fighters are going to join his forces in Ukraine.

Yes, he did, which is a horrible decision and tells us everything we need to know about him, but Zelensky is just as evil, to be perfectly honest. Both are pretty equal in the depth of their depravity. 

At the same time however, what would we do if China was threatening to put missiles in Canada pointing at Washington, and Canada was begging them to? 

We would absolutely see it and treat it as an act of war, and do everything in our power to take down any Canadian leadership that was hostile to us, any means necessary. 

Putin actually has a better reason right now to go into Ukraine than we've had for any action we've been in for 3 decades. 

So what can we do? Morally the only course of action is for the international community to demand a negotiation of truce, giving some and taking some, and promising a hands off Ukraine policy going forward. 

It would immediately stop the war if we demanded Zelensky to give up his NATO dreams and Ukraine negotiated a truce. 

That's the only way, from the moral standpoint.

[vonclod]

I'm not sure there are any good guys in this, but I don't find it difficult to be angry with the invader..generally speaking.

TBH, I haven't read any news on the subject in days, since..you know. I kind of like it, ignorance being bliss and all.

[yuppa]

One point made in the assessment,

Russia’s Wagner Group will likely facilitate the deployment of Libyan fighters to Ukraine.

That seems to be verified by a Libyan MSM and the part about Wagner leading also seems to be true, their russia's version of blackwater.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said Khalifa Haftar had visited Moscow and promised to send Libyan volunteers to fight alongside Russia in Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said it is expected that Russian mercenary group, Wagner, will organize the flights of the Libyan fighters on Russian air force planes.
Meanwhile, Haftar’s private jet, Dassault Falcon-900 P4-RMA, which he uses in most of his travels, landed on March 16 in Moscow coming from the United Arab Emirates and left on March 18 to Austria and then Italy.
Libyan political analyst, Noman Benothman, who was once Haftar’s advisor and turned later to become his opponent, said Haftar’s sons were on the private jet to Moscow which they visited three times in the last ten days, according to his sources.

Ukrainian Defense Ministry: Haftar offered Russia Libyan fighters

The private military company Wagner Group is the most decisive player in the military strategy of the Libyan national army, headed by Marshal Khalifa Haftar. Acting as a Russian foreign legion without the constraints of international or Russian law, it has become an instrument of power play for Vladimir Putin. Before addressing Wagner Group, it is wise to understand the roots of Russian institutional mercenarism and the reasons why Wagner is the product of a long process that has always skirted the edge of legality in Russia.

Wagner in Libya – combat and influence

Maybe more to it than meets the eye.

Edit, Didn't putin recently say that 16,000 middle eastern fighters are going to join his forces in Ukraine.

Yes, he did, which is a horrible decision and tells us everything we need to know about him, but Zelensky is just as evil, to be perfectly honest. Both are pretty equal in the depth of their depravity. 

At the same time however, what would we do if China was threatening to put missiles in Canada pointing at Washington, and Canada was begging them to? 

We would absolutely see it and treat it as an act of war, and do everything in our power to take down any Canadian leadership that was hostile to us, any means necessary. 

Putin actually has a better reason right now to go into Ukraine than we've had for any action we've been in for 3 decades. 

So what can we do? Morally the only course of action is for the international community to demand a negotiation of truce, giving some and taking some, and promising a hands off Ukraine policy going forward. 

It would immediately stop the war if we demanded Zelensky to give up his NATO dreams and Ukraine negotiated a truce. 

That's the only way, from the moral standpoint.

The moral decision would had been to not invade Ukraine. No one forced the countries near russia to join NATO or get close to them. The DOnbass,and crimean regions should had been expelled from Ukraine before this even went on,because they are nothing but trouble makers who were always russian stooges.

[putnam6]

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons

I agree...

P.S.

You will have to forgive me somewhat in discussion as I'm a bit slow sometimes in reading links etc. I have cataracts and can't see out of one eye, and the second is on it's way. I'm going to have eye surgery, it's very correctable, but I've got a couple things that need done before that. So for now I'm just slow... Lol

 No worries I have vision issues myself, and I don't expect immediate replies or replies at all but I am enjoying the discourse here. My only strong opinion on this is keeping the US out of it. 

I also follow 

https://liveuamap.com/


do not watch or listen to American MSM hardly at all except at my local station. I do like WION news out of India, they atleast talk both sides. Pretty much avoid the EU and the UK too LOL watching German news and it feels like an indoctrination sometimes. I also follow on TASS and PRM if one site acknowledges something it's interesting to get the other side's take.


As for the study of war site, it's got an obvious  Pro-Ukraine stance but like everything else, I'll read it but I also try and verify  One thing the assessment is always a day behind, so far Im don't see anything obvious that isn't probably happening and have been watching for weeks. Used to have a link to Georgia's map of current Russian troop location but I believe they were taken down the NY TIMES site has an excellent resource too, good verifiable info with the notorious NY Times slant, however.

I watch the maps cause by now there should be certain conclusion more obvious than others.#1 Russia either wanted to take Kyiv and failed or it was a feint siege on Kyiv to draw resources away from the areas Putin wants to hammer. #2 he will pummel those areas till there is nothing there and he will have his buffer zone from Ukraine

[putnam6]

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons

I agree...

P.S.

You will have to forgive me somewhat in discussion as I'm a bit slow sometimes in reading links etc. I have cataracts and can't see out of one eye, and the second is on it's way. I'm going to have eye surgery, it's very correctable, but I've got a couple things that need done before that. So for now I'm just slow... Lol

 No worries I have vision issues myself, and I don't expect immediate replies or replies at all but I am enjoying the discourse here. My only strong opinion on this is keeping the US out of it. 

I also follow 

https://liveuamap.com/


do not watch or listen to American MSM hardly at all except at my local station. I do like WION news out of India, they atleast talk both sides. Pretty much avoid the EU and the UK too LOL watching German news and it feels like an indoctrination sometimes. I also follow on TASS and PRM if one site acknowledges something it's interesting to get the other side's take.


As for the study of war site, it's got an obvious  Pro-Ukraine stance but like everything else, I'll read it but I also try and verify  One thing the assessment is always a day behind, so far Im don't see anything obvious that isn't probably happening and have been watching for weeks. Used to have a link to Georgia's map of current Russian troop location but I believe they were taken down the NY TIMES site has an excellent resource too, good verifiable info with the notorious NY Times slant, however.

I watch the maps cause by now there should be certain conclusion more obvious than others.#1 Russia either wanted to take Kyiv and failed or it was a feint siege on Kyiv to draw resources away from the areas Putin wants to hammer. #2 he will pummel those areas till there is nothing there and he will have his buffer zone from Ukraine

[Kenzo]

One point made in the assessment,

Russia’s Wagner Group will likely facilitate the deployment of Libyan fighters to Ukraine.

That seems to be verified by a Libyan MSM and the part about Wagner leading also seems to be true, their russia's version of blackwater.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said Khalifa Haftar had visited Moscow and promised to send Libyan volunteers to fight alongside Russia in Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said it is expected that Russian mercenary group, Wagner, will organize the flights of the Libyan fighters on Russian air force planes.
Meanwhile, Haftar’s private jet, Dassault Falcon-900 P4-RMA, which he uses in most of his travels, landed on March 16 in Moscow coming from the United Arab Emirates and left on March 18 to Austria and then Italy.
Libyan political analyst, Noman Benothman, who was once Haftar’s advisor and turned later to become his opponent, said Haftar’s sons were on the private jet to Moscow which they visited three times in the last ten days, according to his sources.

Ukrainian Defense Ministry: Haftar offered Russia Libyan fighters

The private military company Wagner Group is the most decisive player in the military strategy of the Libyan national army, headed by Marshal Khalifa Haftar. Acting as a Russian foreign legion without the constraints of international or Russian law, it has become an instrument of power play for Vladimir Putin. Before addressing Wagner Group, it is wise to understand the roots of Russian institutional mercenarism and the reasons why Wagner is the product of a long process that has always skirted the edge of legality in Russia.

Wagner in Libya – combat and influence

Maybe more to it than meets the eye.

Edit, Didn't putin recently say that 16,000 middle eastern fighters are going to join his forces in Ukraine.

Yes, he did, which is a horrible decision and tells us everything we need to know about him, but Zelensky is just as evil, to be perfectly honest. Both are pretty equal in the depth of their depravity. 

At the same time however, what would we do if China was threatening to put missiles in Canada pointing at Washington, and Canada was begging them to? 

We would absolutely see it and treat it as an act of war, and do everything in our power to take down any Canadian leadership that was hostile to us, any means necessary. 

Putin actually has a better reason right now to go into Ukraine than we've had for any action we've been in for 3 decades. 

So what can we do? Morally the only course of action is for the international community to demand a negotiation of truce, giving some and taking some, and promising a hands off Ukraine policy going forward. 

It would immediately stop the war if we demanded Zelensky to give up his NATO dreams and Ukraine negotiated a truce. 

That's the only way, from the moral standpoint.

Russia / Putin does not fear Nato . What they fear is freedom and democracy

what Putin fears most is the independence of Russia’s neighbours — not because they pose a military threat to the country’s security, but because they pose a political threat to his rule.

Putin worries that if any of these states becomes a successful and prosperous democracy, let alone fully integrates with the west, the Russian people will demand the same. To forestall that, Putin has tried to ensure the neighbouring states are run by strongmen dependent on Russia to stay in power.

Ukraine isn’t threatening Russia, and neither is Nato

Vladimir Putin’s deepest fear is the freedom of Russia’s neighbours


The reason why Russia is destroying Ukraine is not neo-nazis /nazis , bio labs, NATO but to save their own ass in Russia , since once the Russians would see successful nation in the "other russia" ukraine, people would demand/want same there.

[F2d5thCav]

The reason why Russia is destroying Ukraine is not neo-nazis /nazis , bio labs, NATO but to save their own ass in Russia , since once the Russians would see successful nation in the "other russia" ukraine, people would demand/want same there.

Ding ding ding.

Same reason the Soviets built the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain.  Too many people were fleeing their paradise and going to other countries where they had a shot at a better life.  For Russians to go to a successful Ukraine would be easy and a magnet that would brain-drain Russia.

===

Reports that Ukrainian troops AND Belarusian rail workers cut the rail lines between Belarus and Ukraine.

Seeing as how the Russian army logistics heavily depend on railways, that means Vlad's boys that invaded from Belarus are in a "not good" situation.

In other reports, now six Russian generals have fallen in action.  Also mention of troop insubordination, causing the Russian leadership to move "reliable" units around to shore up their lines.

Cheers

[andy06shake]

[

Thanks for the insight, Im here to learn other opinions and thoughts. Before the invasion, I atleast knew of Putin's concerns, though it's extremely dubious if his concerns warranted his response. On the face of it, it's a complete failure and I could definitely see him wanting to wipe those places off the map for denying him his easy victory.

That said the US needs to keep its ass out of it, regardless.

it definitely has a proxy feel to it and would fit with earlier reports of Russian troops being reluctant to fight. Im still trying to figure out which numbers are correct and what the true story is. Im fascinated by the military aspects, but Im also fully aware innocent people are getting killed

I believe the US and Ukraine had the power before it began to stop any of this from happening. This was the most preventable war in history and there is blood on our hands for this failure in foreign policy on our part.

That said, this needs sorted out between the two nations, but I see us getting dragged into it at some future point. Just the fact of who they are both using to fight is problematic for everyone, both Russian and Ukrainian citizens. This road leads no where positive.

If care to read more from the faith perspective, this site is a religious site (though lots of atheists etc post there), but this poster is interesting, as he used to be an Orthodox priest, though he has since left the communion and is a pastor at a Protestant church. His perspective is interesting and the thread he created, though long, is a good one to sit and read a few pages.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/...t-76598704

There is also an Orthodox sub forum where you can read what regular thought is where concerns the war.

Is it not a bit pot kettle and black any road considering the chemical and biological weaponry that Russia have produced and has at her disposal?

I have a problem as well accepting that a nation that choose to give away the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal on the planet in the name of peace then went on to play around with biological weaponry if im honest.

All first world nations or approximations of such have biological laboratories across their countries, so there is also that to consider.

Putin is simply looking for excesses to up the conflict and employ the use of chemical and biological agents because thus far his 3rd rate invasion force are getting their arses handed to them.