Latest S2 Update on Ukraine

[Snarl]

The biowarfare labs in Ukraine is hyped too much, as it is used as propaganda .

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

Having some knowledge of similar labs, I would say that the truth (again) lies somewhere in the middle of what both sides claim.

The bigger 'tell' is the specter of treasonous disclosure being laid on Tulsi Gabbard.  Words matter, and Tulsi only said, "Bio-Research." It was Mit Romney who added "weapon" in there.  Makes me wonder what ol' Mit knows and ain't tellin'.

[Ninurta]

The biowarfare labs in Ukraine is hyped too much, as it is used as propaganda .

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

Having some knowledge of similar labs, I would say that the truth (again) lies somewhere in the middle of what both sides claim.

The bigger 'tell' is the specter of treasonous disclosure being laid on Tulsi Gabbard.  Words matter, and Tulsi only said, "Bio-Research." It was Mit Romney who added "weapon" in there.  Makes me wonder what ol' Mit knows and ain't tellin'.

It's all in a day's work for the propagandists. How do you counter an "expert" who says something you don't want people to believe? You generate a story from another "expert" and have them claim the first "expert" is a liar. Doesn't matter whether your own "expert" is telling the truth or himself telling a lie - that value lies in the confusion generated. Once that confusion is injected, people no longer know which "expert" to believe, and the foot is in the door to redirect their beliefs. People do not like being confused, and can have their beliefs adjusted to remedy their confusion by the skillful application of propaganda.

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[bluemooone2]

  Interesting

[Kenzo]

   

The biowarfare labs in Ukraine is hyped too much, as it is used as propaganda .

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

Having some knowledge of similar labs, I would say that the truth (again) lies somewhere in the middle of what both sides claim.

The bigger 'tell' is the specter of treasonous disclosure being laid on Tulsi Gabbard.  Words matter, and Tulsi only said, "Bio-Research." It was Mit Romney who added "weapon" in there.  Makes me wonder what ol' Mit knows and ain't tellin'.

It's all in a day's work for the propagandists. How do you counter an "expert" who says something you don't want people to believe? You generate a story from another "expert" and have them claim the first "expert" is a liar. Doesn't matter whether your own "expert" is telling the truth or himself telling a lie - that value lies in the confusion generated. Once that confusion is injected, people no longer know which "expert" to believe, and the foot is in the door to redirect their beliefs. People do not like being confused, and can have their beliefs adjusted to remedy their confusion by the skillful application of propaganda.

.

Yes, they do have these methods ready in their book.

Another is by just multiplying something via many web sites etc...first they give the narrative, it then start to diffuse to many other places, after few Months the narrative has traveled through many many places, coming then as somehting that can " possible"  have effect on public eyes and change the opinion maybe ...





Sorry bad image quality

[Ninurta]

Yes, they do have these methods ready in their book.

Another is by just multiplying something via many web sites etc...first they give the narrative, it then start to diffuse to many other places, after few Months the narrative has traveled through many many places, coming then as somehting that can " possible"  have effect on public eyes and change the opinion maybe ...





Sorry bad image quality

That;s true. Information saturation is another tool in the propagandist's tool box. it works on the theory that if you hear the same thing in enough different places, you begin to believe that it must be truth.

Another tool is who gets the "information" there first. People tend to believe what they hear first over what they hear after that. Have you ever had the experience of reading a book, and then later watching a movie made after the book? People tend to see whichever they saw or read first as the better version. Likewise, if they see the movie first and then read the book later, they tend to believe that the book can't hold a candle to the movie.

There are a lot of little tricks for convincing folks to believe what you want them to believe, and propagandists employ all of them. An awareness of what those tricks are gives you a fighting chance at evaluating what you hear in light of them.

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[Kenzo]

Yes, they do have these methods ready in their book.

Another is by just multiplying something via many web sites etc...first they give the narrative, it then start to diffuse to many other places, after few Months the narrative has traveled through many many places, coming then as somehting that can " possible"  have effect on public eyes and change the opinion maybe ...





Sorry bad image quality

That;s true. Information saturation is another tool in the propagandist's tool box. it works on the theory that if you hear the same thing in enough different places, you begin to believe that it must be truth.

Another tool is who gets the "information" there first. People tend to believe what they hear first over what they hear after that. Have you ever had the experience of reading a book, and then later watching a movie made after the book? People tend to see whichever they saw or read first as the better version. Likewise, if they see the movie first and then read the book later, they tend to believe that the book can't hold a candle to the movie.

There are a lot of little tricks for convincing folks to believe what you want them to believe, and propagandists employ all of them. An awareness of what those tricks are gives you a fighting chance at evaluating what you hear in light of them.

.

They target also domestic people, like these propaganda videos :


Russian domestic propaganda Twitter



Goebbels would enjoy watching videos like those

[Ninurta]

They target also domestic people, like these propaganda videos :


Russian domestic propaganda Twitter



Goebbels would enjoy watching videos like those

Yup. Propaganda runs in two directions, internally and externally, to project an image of a regime that is tailored to it's own specific audience.

Propaganda from the "other side" is doing exactly the same thing, but with an opposing message tailored to demonize that regime to it's target audiences.

Some times, the truth lies in the middle. Other times, it's entirely out in the cold, and no one on either side dares mentioning it.

It's all in the game. Cold War II will run cold until one side or the other forces it to run hot. And Propaganda from both directions is going to play a huge part in that.

.

[727Sky]

They target also domestic people, like these propaganda videos :


Russian domestic propaganda Twitter



Goebbels would enjoy watching videos like those

Yup. Propaganda runs in two directions, internally and externally, to project an image of a regime that is tailored to it's own specific audience.

Propaganda from the "other side" is doing exactly the same thing, but with an opposing message tailored to demonize that regime to it's target audiences.

Some times, the truth lies in the middle. Other times, it's entirely out in the cold, and no one on either side dares mentioning it.

It's all in the game. Cold War II will run cold until one side or the other forces it to run hot. And Propaganda from both directions is going to play a huge part in that.

.

“In relation to the political decontamination of our public life, the government will embark upon a systematic campaign to restore the nation’s moral and material health. The whole educational system, theater, film, literature, the press and broadcasting – all these will be used as a means to this end.”

Adolf Hitler

“All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”

Adolf Hitler

“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.” Joseph Goebbels

[F2d5thCav]

This site has informative daily updates for those interested.

https://www.understandingwar.org/

This bit today caught my eye.  I concur with their take on the operational situation.

The culmination of the initial Russian campaign is creating conditions of stalemate throughout most of Ukraine. Russian forces are digging in around the periphery of Kyiv and elsewhere, attempting to consolidate political control over areas they currently occupy, resupplying and attempting to reinforce units in static positions, and generally beginning to set conditions to hold in approximately their current forward positions for an indefinite time. Maxar imagery of Russian forces digging trenches and revetments in Kyiv Oblast over the past several days supports this assessment.[1] Comments by Duma members about forcing Ukraine to surrender by exhaustion in May could reflect a revised Russian approach to ending this conflict on terms favorable to Moscow.

Stalemate will likely be very violent and bloody, especially if it protracts. Stalemate is not armistice or ceasefire. It is a condition in war in which each side conducts offensive operations that do not fundamentally alter the situation. Those operations can be very damaging and cause enormous casualties. The World War I battles of the Somme, Verdun, and Passchendaele were all fought in conditions of stalemate and did not break the stalemate.

Cheers

[Grace]

I had to giggle to myself last night when two Journalists were doing the usual thing on TV of discussing what their
fellow-scribblers had written for today's newspapers. The latest trend in the UK is the Government offering £350-per
-month ($456) to take in a Ukrainian refugee.

The two Journos thought it was a grand idea until the moderator asked them if they would allow those fleeing the troubles
in Ukraine to live in their spare bedroom. Both of them flapped and dithered and then explained such undertaking requires a
knowledge in dealing with trauma. At the end they both declined.


BBC:

It would cost more than that to feed and house (think extra in utilities, running them to appointments, feeding them etc) refugees... They're being cheapskates..

But lol on the journalists declining. If I could afford to take in an actual refugee I would certainly consider it, I think most would but the government should foot the whole bill ..

[727Sky]

https://rumble.com/vxwc6z-lara-logan-tor...of&mrefc=5
Lara Logan demolishes the Ukraine media/political narrative

[Grace]

The biowarfare labs in Ukraine is hyped too much, as it is used as propaganda .

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

Having some knowledge of similar labs, I would say that the truth (again) lies somewhere in the middle of what both sides claim.

The bigger 'tell' is the specter of treasonous disclosure being laid on Tulsi Gabbard.  Words matter, and Tulsi only said, "Bio-Research." It was Mit Romney who added "weapon" in there.  Makes me wonder what ol' Mit knows and ain't tellin'.

https://youtu.be/Y39veTO7kF4

^^^ Pay careful attention to Undersecretary of State Nulands answer under oath (the YouTube link posted above)

First, she says we have "biological research facilities" next she said we are very concerned about the materials falling into Russian hands... 

It's not medical research if we are that concerned about Russia getting it... And it's not benign whatever it is. 

However there is more, this was said by Obama in 2007:

"But while we know what we have lost as a consequence of this tragic war, I also know what I have found in my travels over the past two years.

In an old building in Ukraine, I saw test tubes filled with anthrax and the plague lying virtually unlocked and unguarded - dangers we were told could only be secured with America's help."

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/document...al-affairs

What's more, the Pentagon - publicly - has invested over 200 million across 46 labs in the Ukraine over the last couple decades.

So, there are biological weapons in the Ukraine, what our role in those is, remains slightly obscure, but it a definite danger, and with this being on Russia's doorstep, whether as a ruse or a real concern for them, is problematic seeing as we have control of them, or pay for work with them.

[Snarl]

Pay careful attention to Undersecretary of State Nulands answer under oath. 

First, she says we have "biological research facilities" next she said we are very concerned about the materials falling into Russian hands... 

It's not medical research if we are that concerned about Russia getting it... And it's not benign whatever it is. 

There is a high side and a low side to these labs.  One never knows when the high side is in full swing.

Pretty sure 'Nurse Ratched' didn't want to become set aside like CIA Director Brennan.  I think 'under oath' is being observed a little more strictly of late.  She was definitely under stress during her questioning.  Doubtful she had much in the way of answers, but she obviously had some knowledge (and probably more than me).

[putnam6]

Mariupol the home of the Azov "Nazi" Battalion is being pummeled, that's their home base. 

Russian officials demand Ukrainian forces surrender Mariupol by Monday morning

According to a statement from the Russian National Defense Management Center, Russia has given Ukraine a deadline of 5 am on Monday 21 March to agree to surrender its eastern port city Mariupol. Russian officials said they will open humanitarian corridors for civilians to exit Mariupol at 10 am Moscow time in exchange for Ukrainian forces laying down their weapons, Reuters and the Guardian report.

President Duda: According to @ZelenskyyUa, Russians from Syria are coming to Ukraine and mercenaries from the Middle East supporting RU. Syrians are the most numerous. In this context, more NATO assistance to Ukraine is needed. But this also illustrates Russia's weakness and is an interesting signal for Turkey

[Grace]

Mariupol the home of the Azov "Nazi" Battalion is being pummeled, that's their home base. 

Russian officials demand Ukrainian forces surrender Mariupol by Monday morning

According to a statement from the Russian National Defense Management Center, Russia has given Ukraine a deadline of 5 am on Monday 21 March to agree to surrender its eastern port city Mariupol. Russian officials said they will open humanitarian corridors for civilians to exit Mariupol at 10 am Moscow time in exchange for Ukrainian forces laying down their weapons, Reuters and the Guardian report.

President Duda: According to @ZelenskyyUa, Russians from Syria are coming to Ukraine and mercenaries from the Middle East supporting RU. Syrians are the most numerous. In this context, more NATO assistance to Ukraine is needed. But this also illustrates Russia's weakness and is an interesting signal for Turkey

The use of middle eastern mercenaries on Russia's side and the Azov on Ukraine's side isn't due to weaknesses on either side .  It's because the largest Majority of Russians and Ukrainians are all of the Orthodox faith, and both sides are trying to get around the very problematic issue of having brothers in faith killing brothers in faith on the battlefield. 

There is an issue with both sides choice of mercenary with which to wage this war, but knowing more about the Orthodox it's understandable that neither government actually wants to stand off too much on the battlefield, brother to brother.

If you want to delve more into the part the Orthodox faith is playing in this I am happy to send some interesting links to read discussion.

[putnam6]

Mariupol the home of the Azov "Nazi" Battalion is being pummeled, that's their home base. 

Russian officials demand Ukrainian forces surrender Mariupol by Monday morning

According to a statement from the Russian National Defense Management Center, Russia has given Ukraine a deadline of 5 am on Monday 21 March to agree to surrender its eastern port city Mariupol. Russian officials said they will open humanitarian corridors for civilians to exit Mariupol at 10 am Moscow time in exchange for Ukrainian forces laying down their weapons, Reuters and the Guardian report.

President Duda: According to @ZelenskyyUa, Russians from Syria are coming to Ukraine and mercenaries from the Middle East supporting RU. Syrians are the most numerous. In this context, more NATO assistance to Ukraine is needed. But this also illustrates Russia's weakness and is an interesting signal for Turkey

The use of middle eastern mercenaries on Russia's side and the Azov on Ukraine's side isn't due to weaknesses on either side .  It's because the largest Majority of Russians and Ukrainians are all of the Orthodox faith, and both sides are trying to get around the very problematic issue of having brothers in faith killing brothers in faith on the battlefield. 

There is an issue with both sides choice of mercenary with which to wage this war, but knowing more about the Orthodox it's understandable that neither government actually wants to stand off too much on the battlefield, brother to brother.

Thanks for the insight, would definitely research any links or info you have.

Im here to learn other opinions and thoughts. Before the invasion, I atleast knew of Putin's concerns, though it's extremely dubious if his concerns warranted his response. On the face of it, it's a complete failure and I could definitely see him wanting to wipe those places off the map for denying him his easy victory.

That said the US needs to keep its ass out of it, regardless.

it definitely has a proxy feel to it and would fit with earlier reports of Russian troops being reluctant to fight. Im still trying to figure out which numbers are correct and what the true story is. Im fascinated by the military aspects, but Im also fully aware innocent people are getting killed.

[putnam6]

The biowarfare labs in Ukraine is hyped too much, as it is used as propaganda .

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

Having some knowledge of similar labs, I would say that the truth (again) lies somewhere in the middle of what both sides claim.

The bigger 'tell' is the specter of treasonous disclosure being laid on Tulsi Gabbard.  Words matter, and Tulsi only said, "Bio-Research." It was Mit Romney who added "weapon" in there.  Makes me wonder what ol' Mit knows and ain't tellin'.

https://youtu.be/Y39veTO7kF4

^^^ Pay careful attention to Undersecretary of State Nulands answer under oath (the YouTube link posted above)

First, she says we have "biological research facilities" next she said we are very concerned about the materials falling into Russian hands... 

It's not medical research if we are that concerned about Russia getting it... And it's not benign whatever it is. 

However there is more, this was said by Obama in 2007:

"But while we know what we have lost as a consequence of this tragic war, I also know what I have found in my travels over the past two years.

In an old building in Ukraine, I saw test tubes filled with anthrax and the plague lying virtually unlocked and unguarded - dangers we were told could only be secured with America's help."

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/document...al-affairs

What's more, the Pentagon - publicly - has invested over 200 million across 46 labs in the Ukraine over the last couple decades.

So, there are biological weapons in the Ukraine, what our role in those is, remains slightly obscure, but it a definite danger, and with this being on Russia's doorstep, whether as a ruse or a real concern for them, is problematic seeing as we have control of them, or pay for work with them.

I don't trust Victoria Nuland one bit, and that was before I had read anything else about her, do I know if this is true or just propaganda or conspiracy theory? No but it's food for thought 

https://geopolitics.co/2022/03/01/ukrain...land-made/

Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s “regime change” in early 2014 without weighing the likely chaos and consequences.
As the Ukrainian army squares off against ultra-right and neo-Nazi militias in the west and violence against ethnic Russians continues in the east, the obvious folly of the Obama administration’s Ukraine policy has come into focus even for many who tried to ignore the facts, or what you might call “the mess that Victoria Nuland made.”
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs “Toria” Nuland was the “mastermind” behind the Feb. 22, 2014 “regime change” in Ukraine, plotting the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible U.S. mainstream media that the coup wasn’t really a coup but a victory for “democracy.”

[putnam6]

Russia seems to lose a lot of its leadership with this foray into Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/rus...reddit.com

LONDON, March 20 (Reuters) - A senior naval commander in Russia's Black Sea Fleet has been killed in Ukraine, the governor of Sevastopol said on Sunday.
Post-Captain Andrei Paliy, deputy commander of the fleet, died during fighting in the eastern Ukrainian port city of Mariupol, Governor Mikhail Razvozhayev said on the messaging app Telegram.
The Russian navy did not respond to a request for comment.
Sevastopol, which is a major base of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, is located on the Crimean peninsula, which Moscow annexed from Ukraine in 2014.

[Grace]

[

Thanks for the insight, Im here to learn other opinions and thoughts. Before the invasion, I atleast knew of Putin's concerns, though it's extremely dubious if his concerns warranted his response. On the face of it, it's a complete failure and I could definitely see him wanting to wipe those places off the map for denying him his easy victory.

That said the US needs to keep its ass out of it, regardless.

it definitely has a proxy feel to it and would fit with earlier reports of Russian troops being reluctant to fight. Im still trying to figure out which numbers are correct and what the true story is. Im fascinated by the military aspects, but Im also fully aware innocent people are getting killed

I believe the US and Ukraine had the power before it began to stop any of this from happening. This was the most preventable war in history and there is blood on our hands for this failure in foreign policy on our part.

That said, this needs sorted out between the two nations, but I see us getting dragged into it at some future point. Just the fact of who they are both using to fight is problematic for everyone, both Russian and Ukrainian citizens. This road leads no where positive.

If care to read more from the faith perspective, this site is a religious site (though lots of atheists etc post there), but this poster is interesting, as he used to be an Orthodox priest, though he has since left the communion and is a pastor at a Protestant church. His perspective is interesting and the thread he created, though long, is a good one to sit and read a few pages.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/...t-76598704

There is also an Orthodox sub forum where you can read what regular thought is where concerns the war.

[putnam6]

Thanks for the insight, Im here to learn other opinions and thoughts. Before the invasion, I atleast knew of Putin's concerns, though it's extremely dubious if his concerns warranted his response. On the face of it, it's a complete failure and I could definitely see him wanting to wipe those places off the map for denying him his easy victory.

That said the US needs to keep its ass out of it, regardless.

it definitely has a proxy feel to it and would fit with earlier reports of Russian troops being reluctant to fight. Im still trying to figure out which numbers are correct and what the true story is. Im fascinated by the military aspects, but Im also fully aware innocent people are getting killed

I believe the US and Ukraine had the power before it began to stop any of this from happening. This was the most preventable war in history and there is blood on our hands for this failure in foreign policy on our part.

That said, this needs sorted out between the two nations, but I see us getting dragged into it at some future point. Just the fact of who they are both using to fight is problematic for everyone, both Russian and Ukrainian citizens. This road leads no where positive.

If care to read more from the faith perspective, this site is a religious site (though lots of atheists etc post there), but this poster is interesting, as he used to be an Orthodox priest, though he has since left the communion and is a pastor at a Protestant church. His perspective is interesting and the thread he created, though long, is a good one to sit and read a few pages.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/...t-76598704

There is also an Orthodox sub forum where you can read what regular thought is where concerns the war.

Definitely want to research this, and yes this was preventable and the more it's hyped the less I believe the official narrative if I ever did. I have my thoughts and opinions but I don't have to be right Id rather find out the truth, and more and more this looks like it was a manipulated war.

Hmmm Im already reading the link and agree with a lot that I am seeing will be adding a bookmark, but most agree I don't trust any side in this conflict, somebody somewhere wants this war and its not just because of official reasons