Big Protest in Pakistan with people shot

[727Sky]

Protest with people killed in Pakistan all because of the French publicizing some unfaltering memes about Mohammad..  



At least so far the killings have stayed within their own borders. Have to wait and see what happens in France

[ABNARTY]

I guess I am negligent on keeping up. Did not know about this. Thanks for posting.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

Don't mess with Mohammad!

That's serious business for Muslims and frankly I find no humor to be found in such a "religion of peace".

It seems this was a reaction that is to be expected, so why do it? This was so unnecessary and avoidable and over what? Was some meme that great and important to cause bloodshed? There are other motives involved from those who wanted this to happen.

[Grace]

Protest with people killed in Pakistan all because of the French publicizing some unfaltering memes about Mohammad..  



At least so far the killings have stayed within their own borders. Have to wait and see what happens in France

Just a heads up, but the protests according to your links are due not to cartoons in France, but because the Pakistani police arrested Sayyid Rizvi and the protesters are demanding his release... 

The problem I'm seeing here, is this Cleric can't BE arrested because he's already dead.. 

https://apnews.com/article/islamabad-lah...4f076622aa


And I checked, and western journalists are reporting that this is what the protesters are protesting, the arrest of a man reportedly already dead... 

Makes you scratch your head in wonder at the resurrection of a dead guy, and the current game the media is now playing..

Hmmm... in trying to figure this out.. they seem to be spelling Sayyid (prophet Mohammad family member) Rizvi as Saad... and while there are multiple ways to spell Sayyid since your recreating the sound, Saad may have another meaning in Urdu...

Maybe a family member took the clerics place after his death and continued to lead the (now outlawed) political party?

Who knows... I'll see if I can't manage to get to the bottom of this... although as DH says, dead guys are easy to arrest... lol

It just irks me to no end when there are protests over the arrest of dead people.. lol

[Ninurta]

Don't mess with Mohammad!

That's serious business for Muslims and frankly I find no humor to be found in such a "religion of peace".

It seems this was a reaction that is to be expected, so why do it? This was so unnecessary and avoidable and over what? Was some meme that great and important to cause bloodshed? There are other motives involved from those who wanted this to happen.

Why do it? Because you can. It's not about the meme, and it's not about Moe, it's about being able to freely express your opinion in your own country.

Maybe the Paks ought to look out for their own shit, and let other folks live their lives as they see fit. They could start by cleaning out the ISI and putting some decent folks in there, but it's their country, not mine, so they can do as they will within their own borders. I don't have to go there any more if I don't want to.

 Fuck Pakistan, fuck Mohammed, and fuck the ISI.

.

[Ninurta]

Makes you scratch your head in wonder at the resurrection of a dead guy, and the current game the media is now playing..

Maybe he's Al-Masih ad-Dajjal. I wonder how many eyes he had?

Hmmm... in trying to figure this out.. they seem to be spelling Sayyid (prophet Mohammad family member) Rizvi as Saad... and while there are multiple ways to spell Sayyid since your recreating the sound, Saad may have another meaning in Urdu...

 
Urdu is pretty different from Arabic, but some terms get handed back and forth because of surface similarity, and then they are changed to make it easier for people to speak in that language. See the difference between "David" and "Daud". or "Jesus" and "Isa" and "Yeshua". "Sayyid", "Said", "Sayyad" and "Saad" are probably the same name, just different dialects.

Urdu is actually closer to the Indo-European languages. for example, "mother" in Arabic is Um or Oom, but in Urdu "Mother" is "Mather", not nearly as different for English speakers.

Who knows... I'll see if I can't manage to get to the bottom of this... although as DH says, dead guys are easy to arrest... lol

Indeed they are! it's not hard to cuff a guy who can't outrun you or take a swing at you!

.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

Don't mess with Mohammad!

That's serious business for Muslims and frankly I find no humor to be found in such a "religion of peace".

It seems this was a reaction that is to be expected, so why do it? This was so unnecessary and avoidable and over what? Was some meme that great and important to cause bloodshed? There are other motives involved from those who wanted this to happen.

Why do it? Because you can. It's not about the meme, and it's not about Moe, it's about being able to freely express your opinion in your own country.

Maybe the Paks ought to look out for their own shit, and let other folks live their lives as they see fit. They could start by cleaning out the ISI and putting some decent folks in there, but it's their country, not mine, so they can do as they will within their own borders. I don't have to go there any more if I don't want to.

 Fuck Pakistan, fuck Mohammed, and fuck the ISI.

This part of your reply to my post - "Why do it? Because you can. It's not about the meme, and it's not about Moe, it's about being able to freely express your opinion in your own country."

Freely expressing your opinion in your own country, of course I agree with that, but doing it just because you can? I don't think I would unless I felt I had to.

If you could publish "offense" cartoons of Mohammad, sure to get extremist Muslims pissed off enough to kill people, would you, just because you could? What purpose would it serve but to cause mayhem and death, give people a chuckle?

Sure, many countries have free speech like the U.S. and everyone with free speech shouldn't have any fear of speaking, but you have a responsibility for what you say. There are a lot of things I could say, like Maxine Waters did in Minneapolis to crowds ready to start a violent riot.

I suggest that we all choose our words carefully when we exercise our right of free speech.

ETA: IMO though, a civilized response from these middle eastern extremists would be publishing their own "offensive" cartoons of Christ or the pope, or of infidel politicians, etc., but we know those types are far from civilized don't we?

[Ninurta]

This part of your reply to my post - "Why do it? Because you can. It's not about the meme, and it's not about Moe, it's about being able to freely express your opinion in your own country."

Freely expressing your opinion in your own country, of course I agree with that, but doing it just because you can? I don't think I would unless I felt I had to.

If you could publish "offense" cartoons of Mohammad, sure to get extremist Muslims pissed off enough to kill people, would you, just because you could? What purpose would it serve but to cause mayhem and death, give people a chuckle?

Sure, many countries have free speech like the U.S. and everyone with free speech shouldn't have any fear of speaking, but you have a responsibility for what you say. There are a lot of things I could say, like Maxine Waters did in Minneapolis to crowds ready to start a violent riot.

I suggest that we all choose our words carefully when we exercise our right of free speech.

ETA: IMO though, a civilized response from these middle eastern extremists would be publishing their own "offensive" cartoons of Christ or the pope, or of infidel politicians, etc., but we know those types are far from civilized don't we?

I absolutely would.

I'm a strange character. I don't fold to threats. I let folks know right up front that as soon as they threaten me, it's on. No amount of threats or bad behavior will bring me around to their way of thinking thereafter, and I take a particular pleasure in letting them know that at every turn.

So, yes, I would.

I am not responsible for their hurt feelings any more than they are responsible for mine, carefully chosen words or no.

They don't have to listen to me if they don't like what I am saying. If they don't like cartoons published in France, then don't go to France and look at them. If they want to burn their own country down over something someone somewhere else said, more power to them. I'm really fine with them killing each other off over a perceived slight, until there are only enough Pakistanis left to pave over the entire country into a huge parking lot and build a McDonalds in the middle of it.

If they want to come over here and start shit instead, well, then they got Jao Bai Den to deal with!  


.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

This part of your reply to my post - "Why do it? Because you can. It's not about the meme, and it's not about Moe, it's about being able to freely express your opinion in your own country."

Freely expressing your opinion in your own country, of course I agree with that, but doing it just because you can? I don't think I would unless I felt I had to.

If you could publish "offense" cartoons of Mohammad, sure to get extremist Muslims pissed off enough to kill people, would you, just because you could? What purpose would it serve but to cause mayhem and death, give people a chuckle?

Sure, many countries have free speech like the U.S. and everyone with free speech shouldn't have any fear of speaking, but you have a responsibility for what you say. There are a lot of things I could say, like Maxine Waters did in Minneapolis to crowds ready to start a violent riot.

I suggest that we all choose our words carefully when we exercise our right of free speech.

ETA: IMO though, a civilized response from these middle eastern extremists would be publishing their own "offensive" cartoons of Christ or the pope, or of infidel politicians, etc., but we know those types are far from civilized don't we?

I absolutely would.

I'm a strange character. I don't fold to threats. I let folks know right up front that as soon as they threaten me, it's on. No amount of threats or bad behavior will bring me around to their way of thinking thereafter, and I take a particular pleasure in letting them know that at every turn.

So, yes, I would.

I am not responsible for their hurt feelings any more than they are responsible for mine, carefully chosen words or no.

They don't have to listen to me if they don't like what I am saying. If they don't like cartoons published in France, then don't go to France and look at them. If they want to burn their own country down over something someone somewhere else said, more power to them. I'm really fine with them killing each other off over a perceived slight, until there are only enough Pakistanis left to pave over the entire country into a huge parking lot and build a McDonalds in the middle of it.

If they want to come over here and start shit instead, well, then they got Jao Bai Den to deal with!  
.

Ok, but you're missing my point. I think these asshats in France are publishing Mohammad cartoons to get the muzzies all riled up, not "because - free speech". They aren't doing this for freedom of speech or for any actually good reason but to cause trouble with the towel heads. Just like Maxine was trying to start trouble with BLM before the verdict was given. The question is why would they want to do that? What is the real reason to stir up this trouble?

Are you getting what I'm putting across yet?

[Ninurta]

Ok, but you're missing my point. I think these asshats in France are publishing Mohammad cartoons to get the muzzies all riled up, not "because - free speech". They aren't doing this for freedom of speech or for any actually good reason but to cause trouble with the towel heads. Just like Maxine was trying to start trouble with BLM before the verdict was given. The question is why would they want to do that? What is the real reason to stir up this trouble?

Are you getting what I'm putting across yet?

Sadly, perhaps, I guess I'm not. I think what I'm not getting is why anyone else should tiptoe around their wittle feewings. Isn't that why the lowest common denominator among us is now ruling over us? Coz we might hurt their wittle feewings? Why should I run MY house by the guy down the street's rules for HIS house?

.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

Ok, but you're missing my point. I think these asshats in France are publishing Mohammad cartoons to get the muzzies all riled up, not "because - free speech". They aren't doing this for freedom of speech or for any actually good reason but to cause trouble with the towel heads. Just like Maxine was trying to start trouble with BLM before the verdict was given. The question is why would they want to do that? What is the real reason to stir up this trouble?

Are you getting what I'm putting across yet?

Sadly, perhaps, I guess I'm not. I think what I'm not getting is why anyone else should tiptoe around their wittle feewings. Isn't that why the lowest common denominator among us is now ruling over us? Coz we might hurt their wittle feewings? Why should I run MY house by the guy down the street's rules for HIS house?.

I get what you're saying and as a freedom loving American I totally agree. You can't allow the reactions of Islam rule over your free speech. That's not my point.

What I'm saying is why would some publication in France bother to do this? They know the trouble they got into the last few times, are they trying to start a war with extreme Islam? Why would they let these extremists in their country and then bait them with insulting cartoons?

(CNN)For the second time in as many weeks, France is reeling from the devastation of a brutal knife attack that authorities are ascribing to an Islamist terrorist.
On Thursday, three people were stabbed to death at a church in the French city of Nice. While the investigation is still underway, French President Emmanuel Macron said after the incident that the country was under attack by "Islamist and terrorist madness."

France 'will not give into terrorism' says Macron, after three stabbed to death in church attack
Thursday's killings follow the murder on October 16 of Samuel Paty, a teacher in the northern Paris suburb of Éragny. He was beheaded after showing cartoons published in the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo depicting the Prophet Mohammed to students in his class. An 18-year-old Chechen refugee admitted to the killing in a social media post before being shot dead by police.
The name Charlie Hebdo will be familiar to anyone who remembers the terror attacks that took place in 2015, when gunmen forced their way into the magazine's offices in Paris and murdered 12 people. The attackers allegedly said they were avenging the Prophet Mohammed. Charlie Hebdo, a small magazine known for provocative and often offensive images and articles, had published caricatures of the Prophet in 2012.

www.cnn.com

That's at least 16 people killed in France because some publisher wants to sling mud at Mohammad, one was a teacher that was brutally beheaded. Here in the states, I could be doing this, you could too, but what for? Are they trying to get innocent people killed because "free speech"? That's nothing I want to be a part of, free speech or not.

A scathing article about the life of Mohammad, something with a valid point that needed to be made, I can understand taking a chance with that, but cartoons for the sake of what, some low brow humor? How many innocent lives is that worth?

ETA: I have great respect for how you view your freedom of speech and I absolutely believe you have the ability, means, and will to back it up. I think that's part of what makes the U.S. so great, it's people don't take shit. I grew up in Detroit, I know that attitude very well.

I guess the bottom line is just because you could use freedom of speech to cause a fight that will get people killed, would you and if so why?

[Ninurta]

I get what you're saying and as a freedom loving American I totally agree. You can't allow the reactions of Islam rule over your free speech. That's not my point.

What I'm saying is why would some publication in France bother to do this? They know the trouble they got into the last few times, are they trying to start a war with extreme Islam? Why would they let these extremists in their country and then bait them with insulting cartoons?

(CNN)For the second time in as many weeks, France is reeling from the devastation of a brutal knife attack that authorities are ascribing to an Islamist terrorist.
On Thursday, three people were stabbed to death at a church in the French city of Nice. While the investigation is still underway, French President Emmanuel Macron said after the incident that the country was under attack by "Islamist and terrorist madness."

France 'will not give into terrorism' says Macron, after three stabbed to death in church attack
Thursday's killings follow the murder on October 16 of Samuel Paty, a teacher in the northern Paris suburb of Éragny. He was beheaded after showing cartoons published in the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo depicting the Prophet Mohammed to students in his class. An 18-year-old Chechen refugee admitted to the killing in a social media post before being shot dead by police.
The name Charlie Hebdo will be familiar to anyone who remembers the terror attacks that took place in 2015, when gunmen forced their way into the magazine's offices in Paris and murdered 12 people. The attackers allegedly said they were avenging the Prophet Mohammed. Charlie Hebdo, a small magazine known for provocative and often offensive images and articles, had published caricatures of the Prophet in 2012.

www.cnn.com

That's at least 16 people killed in France because some publisher wants to sling mud at Mohammad, one was a teacher that was brutally beheaded. Here in the states, I could be doing this, you could too, but what for? Are they trying to get innocent people killed because "free speech"? That's nothing I want to be a part of, free speech or not.

A scathing article about the life of Mohammad, something with a valid point that needed to be made, I can understand taking a chance with that, but cartoons for the sake of what, some low brow humor? How many innocent lives is that worth?

ETA: I have great respect for how you view your freedom of speech and I absolutely believe you have the ability, means, and will to back it up. I think that's part of what makes the U.S. so great, it's people don't take shit. I grew up in Detroit, I know that attitude very well.

I guess the bottom line is just because you could use freedom of speech to cause a fight that will get people killed, would you and if so why?

Not being French, I can't say for sure why they did it. My best guess is that they are still reeling over the Charlie Hebdo attacks, where a publisher was attacked for substantially the same thing. Maybe if that is the case, it's a Gallic means of saying "Fuck off, Islam. You ain't gonna shut us up, and here's some more proof that you won't". We do have to draw a distinction between their government that is inviting more trouble in, and their people, many of whom appear to have had enough.

Now, for myself, whether I would use freedom of speech to start a fight is strongly dependent on the circumstances. I probably wouldn't do it just to stir shit and get a fight going in an otherwise peaceful world, but if I were already under attack by an adversary who had already started the fight, I likely wouldn't back down in the slightest, either. Whether people would get killed in that case is immaterial - they would probably get killed anyhow, with or without my input.

.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

I get what you're saying and as a freedom loving American I totally agree. You can't allow the reactions of Islam rule over your free speech. That's not my point.

What I'm saying is why would some publication in France bother to do this? They know the trouble they got into the last few times, are they trying to start a war with extreme Islam? Why would they let these extremists in their country and then bait them with insulting cartoons?

(CNN)For the second time in as many weeks, France is reeling from the devastation of a brutal knife attack that authorities are ascribing to an Islamist terrorist.
On Thursday, three people were stabbed to death at a church in the French city of Nice. While the investigation is still underway, French President Emmanuel Macron said after the incident that the country was under attack by "Islamist and terrorist madness."

France 'will not give into terrorism' says Macron, after three stabbed to death in church attack
Thursday's killings follow the murder on October 16 of Samuel Paty, a teacher in the northern Paris suburb of Éragny. He was beheaded after showing cartoons published in the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo depicting the Prophet Mohammed to students in his class. An 18-year-old Chechen refugee admitted to the killing in a social media post before being shot dead by police.
The name Charlie Hebdo will be familiar to anyone who remembers the terror attacks that took place in 2015, when gunmen forced their way into the magazine's offices in Paris and murdered 12 people. The attackers allegedly said they were avenging the Prophet Mohammed. Charlie Hebdo, a small magazine known for provocative and often offensive images and articles, had published caricatures of the Prophet in 2012.

www.cnn.com

That's at least 16 people killed in France because some publisher wants to sling mud at Mohammad, one was a teacher that was brutally beheaded. Here in the states, I could be doing this, you could too, but what for? Are they trying to get innocent people killed because "free speech"? That's nothing I want to be a part of, free speech or not.

A scathing article about the life of Mohammad, something with a valid point that needed to be made, I can understand taking a chance with that, but cartoons for the sake of what, some low brow humor? How many innocent lives is that worth?

ETA: I have great respect for how you view your freedom of speech and I absolutely believe you have the ability, means, and will to back it up. I think that's part of what makes the U.S. so great, it's people don't take shit. I grew up in Detroit, I know that attitude very well.

I guess the bottom line is just because you could use freedom of speech to cause a fight that will get people killed, would you and if so why?

Not being French, I can't say for sure why they did it. My best guess is that they are still reeling over the Charlie Hebdo attacks, where a publisher was attacked for substantially the same thing. Maybe if that is the case, it's a Gallic means of saying "Fuck off, Islam. You ain't gonna shut us up, and here's some more proof that you won't". We do have to draw a distinction between their government that is inviting more trouble in, and their people, many of whom appear to have had enough.

Now, for myself, whether I would use freedom of speech to start a fight is strongly dependent on the circumstances. I probably wouldn't do it just to stir shit and get a fight going in an otherwise peaceful world, but if I were already under attack by an adversary who had already started the fight, I likely wouldn't back down in the slightest, either. Whether people would get killed in that case is immaterial - they would probably get killed anyhow, with or without my input.

.

OK, you're getting my point and I'm getting yours now too. I'd just like to say I'm not arguing just for the sake of argument. I've gotten a lot from this discussion and thank you for putting up with it.