Russia and China relationship, going down ?

[727Sky]

China paid 3 billion down for some S-400 missile defense batteries. Russia has not delivered the missiles or other hardware to make the batteries functional. In the mean time India's S-400 order is on schedule ..  The video starts good and then has a commerical which you can skip to the 2:21 mark for the whole story.

[F2d5thCav]

I am surprised China went the "China Sea route".  They were already well advanced into Siberia with people presence and economic ties.

Russia has a problem there.  I've heard Siberia has more significant economic ties with China than it does with Russia west of the Urals.  Don't know if that is true, though.

In other "Russia" news, Belarus clapped irons on a bunch of Russian mercenaries so that they don't cause trouble in the coming election.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200729-bel...tate-media

Cheers

[F2d5thCav]

https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/russia-may...-to-china/

Asia Times looks at the Russian missile situation.

Cheers

[727Sky]

Indian accent which some my find hard to understand but... the video fleshes out some of the current problems.. If I were Russian I too would cut China off from any sensitive hardware. 

[guohua]

Indian accent which some my find hard to understand but... the video fleshes out some of the current problems.. If I were Russian I too would cut China off from any sensitive hardware. 

Exactly, China will use that Technology against Russia.

[727Sky]

China's military recruitment add which is well done IMO

Authored by Simon Black via SovereignMan.com,
Not long ago, the British Army realized that it needed to completely revamp its recruiting campaign.
The younger generation simply wasn’t responding to the Army’s previous ‘Be All You Can Be’ style of advertising. So British leadership changed the recruiting message to keep up with the massive cultural shift that has been sweeping the world.
Their updated campaign focused on– you guessed it– diversity and inclusion.
[b]The Army’s new priority was to show off how woke they are, and to make new recruits feel safe and happy… as opposed to building a lethal, highly effective fighting force.

One of the best examples of this ad campaign shows British soldiers on a combat patrol, ostensibly in the mountains of Afghanistan.

But suddenly the mission stops… because one of the soldiers is Muslim and needs to pray.
[/b]
The ad shows the rest of the unit happily and patiently waiting. At one point, the radio squawks (which is usually because the command headquarters or another nearby unit needs to communicate with your squad.)
But one of the soldiers shushes the radio operator. So we not only need to stop the entire freaking war, but we have to cut ourselves off from potentially critical communication, just so this guy can continue to pray without being disturbed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/b...-inclusion

[F2d5thCav]

Russia is running a high-stakes game re: China.

The Russian military has shrunk dramatically, but the size of the common border with China has not.  China's military is huge.  The only counter-balance that Russia has is a superior nuclear strike capability.

I understand there is already a fair amount of Chinese presence in Siberia because of economic activity.  If China decided to "sit" on the trans-Siberian railway to blackmail Russia, would Putin pull the nuclear trigger?

If that is a disturbing scenario . . . "because 2020".

Cheers

[727Sky]

Russia is running a high-stakes game re: China.

The Russian military has shrunk dramatically, but the size of the common border with China has not.  China's military is huge.  The only counter-balance that Russia has is a superior nuclear strike capability.

I understand there is already a fair amount of Chinese presence in Siberia because of economic activity.  If China decided to "sit" on the trans-Siberian railway to blackmail Russia, would Putin pull the nuclear trigger?

If that is a disturbing scenario . . . "because 2020".

Cheers

Remember a week or so ago when Russia said any inbound missile will be presumed to be nuclear armed and Russia would retaliate ? Many assumed it was more of a threat to NATO or the USA.. I think the majority was to let China know any hanky panky would not go unnoticed.

[F2d5thCav]

@"727Sky" 

Hard to imagine a Chinese "recruiting" video in which the squad members look adoringly at their Uighur comrade while he is praying in the direction of Mecca.  

Cheers

[guohua]

@"727Sky" 

Hard to imagine a Chinese "recruiting" video in which the squad members look adoringly at their Uighur comrade while he is praying in the direction of Mecca.  

Cheers

I think you're right.
But the British must be OK with it.

[Ninurta]

China's military recruitment add which is well done IMO

Well that's kinda creepy, but far more effective than the British recruitment ad. Still, they'll not be planting any of those red flags on these hills - and they better bring enough money to bury their Fellow Travelers here if they come.

That's sad. I'd shoot that bastard in the back of the head and continue the mission as planned... or brew some tea after I shot him, if it was tea time.

There is no experience quite like watching a former British Sergeant Major call a halt to a hot firefight because it's 5 PM, and all civilized folk brew tea at that time. 

.

[gordi]

China's military recruitment add which is well done IMO

Authored by Simon Black via SovereignMan.com,
Not long ago, the British Army realized that it needed to completely revamp its recruiting campaign.
The younger generation simply wasn’t responding to the Army’s previous ‘Be All You Can Be’ style of advertising. So British leadership changed the recruiting message to keep up with the massive cultural shift that has been sweeping the world.
Their updated campaign focused on– you guessed it– diversity and inclusion.
[b]The Army’s new priority was to show off how woke they are, and to make new recruits feel safe and happy… as opposed to building a lethal, highly effective fighting force.

One of the best examples of this ad campaign shows British soldiers on a combat patrol, ostensibly in the mountains of Afghanistan.

But suddenly the mission stops… because one of the soldiers is Muslim and needs to pray.
[/b]
The ad shows the rest of the unit happily and patiently waiting. At one point, the radio squawks (which is usually because the command headquarters or another nearby unit needs to communicate with your squad.)
But one of the soldiers shushes the radio operator. So we not only need to stop the entire freaking war, but we have to cut ourselves off from potentially critical communication, just so this guy can continue to pray without being disturbed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/b...-inclusion

So, we're quoting zerohedge now?
Run by a Bulgarian former hedge-fund trader who was BANNED from the Securities Industry for Insider Trading in 2008 (with strong links to Goldman Sachs).
Operating under a mantra of "pseudonymous speech" which hides the identity of the individual author responsible for writing any given article, so they can be "protected" from retaliation, suppression and intolerance?

Speaking of zerohedge, their former employee Colin Lokey said, in a 2016 interview:

 "I can't be a 24-hour cheerleader for Hezbollah, Moscow, Tehran, Beijing, and Trump anymore. It's wrong. Period. I know it gets you views now, but it will kill your brand over the long run. This isn't a revolution. It's a joke." 

i.e. they are instructed to be "cheerleaders" for a certain Far-Right viewpoint, not to be honest or to actually report the truth in an unbiased fashion.

With regards to the British Army recruitment video - I've never seen that before. And I live in Britain.
But it does NOT in any way shape or form show the British Army "making new recruits feel safe and happy" or "...stopping the entire freaking war... just so this guy can continue to pray..."
THAT is a blatantly biased, borderline racist supposition IMHO.

The action shown in the video looks like an example of an army troop on a mission to me, they have stopped for a break and the Muslim recruit takes the opportunity to pray (as per his own religious beliefs).
I think what they are trying to say is:
You can still hold onto your own personal religious beliefs even if you join the British Army. (You can KEEP your Faith.)

I'm not Left wing or Right wing in my political views, but I really don't like political bias being stated as fact just to make a point.

kindest regards,
G

[Ninurta]

China's military recruitment add which is well done IMO

Authored by Simon Black via SovereignMan.com,
Not long ago, the British Army realized that it needed to completely revamp its recruiting campaign.
The younger generation simply wasn’t responding to the Army’s previous ‘Be All You Can Be’ style of advertising. So British leadership changed the recruiting message to keep up with the massive cultural shift that has been sweeping the world.
Their updated campaign focused on– you guessed it– diversity and inclusion.
[b]The Army’s new priority was to show off how woke they are, and to make new recruits feel safe and happy… as opposed to building a lethal, highly effective fighting force.

One of the best examples of this ad campaign shows British soldiers on a combat patrol, ostensibly in the mountains of Afghanistan.

But suddenly the mission stops… because one of the soldiers is Muslim and needs to pray.
[/b]
The ad shows the rest of the unit happily and patiently waiting. At one point, the radio squawks (which is usually because the command headquarters or another nearby unit needs to communicate with your squad.)
But one of the soldiers shushes the radio operator. So we not only need to stop the entire freaking war, but we have to cut ourselves off from potentially critical communication, just so this guy can continue to pray without being disturbed.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/b...-inclusion

So, we're quoting zerohedge now?
Run by a Bulgarian former hedge-fund trader who was BANNED from the Securities Industry for Insider Trading in 2008 (with strong links to Goldman Sachs).
Operating under a mantra of "pseudonymous speech" which hides the identity of the individual author responsible for writing any given article, so they can be "protected" from retaliation, suppression and intolerance?

Speaking of zerohedge, their former employee Colin Lokey said, in a 2016 interview:

 "I can't be a 24-hour cheerleader for Hezbollah, Moscow, Tehran, Beijing, and Trump anymore. It's wrong. Period. I know it gets you views now, but it will kill your brand over the long run. This isn't a revolution. It's a joke." 

i.e. they are instructed to be "cheerleaders" for a certain Far-Right viewpoint, not to be honest or to actually report the truth in an unbiased fashion.

With regards to the British Army recruitment video - I've never seen that before. And I live in Britain.
But it does NOT in any way shape or form show the British Army "making new recruits feel safe and happy" or "...stopping the entire freaking war... just so this guy can continue to pray..."
THAT is a blatantly biased, borderline racist supposition IMHO.

The action shown in the video looks like an example of an army troop on a mission to me, they have stopped for a break and the Muslim recruit takes the opportunity to pray (as per his own religious beliefs).
I think what they are trying to say is:
You can still hold onto your own personal religious beliefs even if you join the British Army. (You can KEEP your Faith.)

I'm not Left wing or Right wing in my political views, but I really don't like political bias being stated as fact just to make a point.

kindest regards,
G

With all due respect, I don't care about the checkered pasts of Zero Hedge contributors or their board of directors, so long as the info provided can be verified. Their individual pasts are irrelevant to the intel at hand. Then again, I've had to deal with some pretty unsavory characters to get good intel, because bad people often have bad info, since they are closer to the source of it. I didn't ask for their CV, I asked if they had any verification.

With that in mind, are you saying the ad is fake, and Zero Hedge spent their own dime to produce it as propaganda?

To be fair, I've never known even radical Muslims (and yes, I've known a few who would pass for "radical", even in this permissive age)  to call a halt to an operation to make salat, but the video DOES show an NCOIC "shushing" a radio operator, and that isn't done for prayers, either - not Christian, not Muslim, not Buddhist, not Satanist - NO religious prayers. There is no survivable point in halting incoming information in the middle of an operation just to have a short word with your god.

If your god can't hear you even in the middle of explosions, he's a pretty weak god, and you might be better off praying to a stronger one.

.

[gordi]

With all due respect, I don't care about the checkered pasts of Zero Hedge contributors or their board of directors, so long as the info provided can be verified. Their individual pasts are irrelevant to the intel at hand. Then again, I've had to deal with some pretty unsavory characters to get good intel, because bad people often have bad info, since they are closer to the source of it. I didn't ask for their CV, I asked if they had any verification.

With that in mind, are you saying the ad is fake, and Zero Hedge spent their own dime to produce it as propaganda?

To be fair, I've never known even radical Muslims (and yes, I've known a few who would pass for "radical", even in this permissive age)  to call a halt to an operation to make salat, but the video DOES show an NCOIC "shushing" a radio operator, and that isn't done for prayers, either - not Christian, not Muslim, not Buddhist, not Satanist - NO religious prayers. There is no survivable point in halting incoming information in the middle of an operation just to have a short word with your god.

If your god can't hear you even in the middle of explosions, he's a pretty weak god, and you might be better off praying to a stronger one.

.

"With all due respect" - you tend to say that every time that you are about to kick me in the nuts! LOL

You have a very firm view on certain topics Nin, and that's a good thing.
But, in the past, when I've offered a point that you don't accept/agree with, you've said that you'll admit to being "educated and corrected" if I provide you with the evidence to prove my case, e.g. with the Doxxing thread/comments (in Hinges are Broken?).
I did so, at your request (providing a link to evidence of doxxing by the other side of the argument)... but am still waiting for your response to the evidence I provided.

FYI - In this instance, I wasn't commenting on the info itself.
I was commenting on the biased interpretation of the info:
Zerohedge, with their far right history, dodgy operating practices (psedoanonymity?) and illegal goings-on, putting their own spin on the contents of the video to suit their own agenda.

Getting the right info out of bad'uns via interrogation (or other means) has nothing whatsoever to do with propagandists like Zerohedge putting their own spin on the information in their own article, which they are presenting as fact.

G

PS - My God?? NOT MY God! LOL

BTW - We all (even you!) layer our own interpretations of what is going on in any given topic, dependent on our background, upbringing and perspective.
It's human nature.


e.g. In this video:
How do you know it's an active operation and not just a squad taking a break during a training exercise?
What explosions??? There weren't any explosions anywhere near this discussion or in the video...

Your comments are bang on IF it's an active operation... but... is it?

We all layer our own interpretations onto what we see, but it shouldn't be presented as fact (like zerohedge have done) without very good corroborating evidence IMHO.

In this case, zerohedge stated (among many other things):

...The Army’s new priority was to show off how woke they are, and to make new recruits feel safe and happy… as opposed to building a lethal, highly effective fighting force.

Is that FACT or their OPINION?

One of the best examples of this ad campaign shows British soldiers on a combat patrol, ostensibly in the mountains of Afghanistan.

But suddenly the mission stops… because one of the soldiers is Muslim and needs to pray.

Are they on Combat Patrol? Is it Afghanistan?
Did they really STOP the mission because the Muslim soldier needed to pray?
Or is that THEIR interpretation of what was happening?

The ad shows the rest of the unit happily and patiently waiting. At one point, the radio squawks (which is usually because the command headquarters or another nearby unit needs to communicate with your squad.)
But one of the soldiers shushes the radio operator. So we not only need to stop the entire freaking war, but we have to cut ourselves off from potentially critical communication, just so this guy can continue to pray without being disturbed...

Did we REALLY STOP the ENTIRE FREAKING WAR like they state? or could it have simply been during a break in a training run?
Perspective, interpretation and spin IMHO, but they present it as fact!

To be fair, most media outlets do this to some degree nowadays, but it doesn't make it right correct! LOL

G

[Ninurta]

"With all due respect" - you tend to say that every time that you are about to kick me in the nuts! LOL

Sorry 'bout that - I'll try and change my approach to something more like "look out!" 

You have a very firm view on certain topics Nin, and that's a good thing.
But, in the past, when I've offered a point that you don't accept/agree with, you've said that you'll admit to being "educated and corrected" if I provide you with the evidence to prove my case, e.g. with the Doxxing thread/comments (in Hinges are Broken?).
I did so, at your request (providing a link to evidence of doxxing by the other side of the argument)... but am still waiting for your response to the evidence I provided.

Valid point. That's a long, twisted read, and I'm still wading through it and attempting to sort it out.

I know. I'm slack sometimes.

FYI - In this instance, I wasn't commenting on the info itself.
I was commenting on the biased interpretation of the info:
Zerohedge, with their far right history, dodgy operating practices (psedoanonymity?) and illegal goings-on, putting their own spin on the contents of the video to suit their own agenda.

Also a valid point. I try to look past the propaganda and "spin", into information presented, because everywhere we turn these days, there is some "spin", "interpretation", or propaganda there.

Getting the right info out of bad'uns via interrogation (or other means) has nothing whatsoever to do with propagandists like Zerohedge putting their own spin on the information in their own article, which they are presenting as fact.

G

Fair enough, but I wasn't referring to interrogations, I was referring to working with the folks closest to working the streets. Not all information gathering involves sand filled rubber hoses. Matter of fact, the best info doesn't. If one has to beat it out of them, sometimes he beats out bullshit just to get the beatings to stop.

PS - My God?? NOT MY God! LOL

My bad. I didn't mean "you" specifically, I meant it more in a generic "humanity wide" sense. I don't know who your god is, or even if you subscribe to one, and certainly didn't mean to disparage your particular religion, or lack of. People in general seem to have some strange gods who demand things of people that a god ought to be able to handle itself. Mine, for example, wouldn't require me to stop dodging bullets for a quiet little word.

BTW - We all (even you!) layer our own interpretations of what is going on in any given topic, dependent on our background, upbringing and perspective.
It's human nature.

Another valid point - you're on a roll!

e.g. In this video:
How do you know it's an active operation and not just a squad taking a break during a training exercise?
What explosions??? There weren't any explosions anywhere near this discussion or in the video...

Your comments are bang on IF it's an active operation... but... is it?

I've no idea if it is intended to portray an active operation or a training exercise, but the old adage does ring true that "you fight like you train", so I don't think, from my perspective, that it makes a difference which it is supposed to be.

We all layer our own interpretations onto what we see, but it shouldn't be presented as fact (like zerohedge have done) without very good corroborating evidence IMHO.

True, on both counts. The only corroborating evidence in this case, I think, is whether it is an actual British Army recruiting commercial, or if it was produced solely as right-wing propaganda, independent of the British military. If it is in fact an actual recruiting commercial, then Zero Hedge spin means nothing to me. If it's NOT, then Zero Hedge has some 'splainin' to do. I want to sort out which it is.

In this case, zerohedge stated (among many other things):

...The Army’s new priority was to show off how woke they are, and to make new recruits feel safe and happy… as opposed to building a lethal, highly effective fighting force.

Is that FACT or their OPINION?

It is opinion, regardless of the source of the commercial. I don't place the opinion of Zero Hedge - or Fox News, or CNN, ad infinitum, as being any more valid than mine, or yours. Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one, and they tend to stink. That is why it's important whether the commercial is real or not - it speaks for itself, and no other opinions are necessary once that gets sorted out. We can then form our own opinions of it.

One of the best examples of this ad campaign shows British soldiers on a combat patrol, ostensibly in the mountains of Afghanistan.

But suddenly the mission stops… because one of the soldiers is Muslim and needs to pray.

Are they on Combat Patrol? Is it Afghanistan?
Did they really STOP the mission because the Muslim soldier needed to pray?
Or is that THEIR interpretation of what was happening?

The ad shows the rest of the unit happily and patiently waiting. At one point, the radio squawks (which is usually because the command headquarters or another nearby unit needs to communicate with your squad.)
But one of the soldiers shushes the radio operator. So we not only need to stop the entire freaking war, but we have to cut ourselves off from potentially critical communication, just so this guy can continue to pray without being disturbed...

Did we REALLY STOP the ENTIRE FREAKING WAR like they state? or could it have simply been during a break in a training run?
Perspective, interpretation and spin IMHO, but they present it as fact!

To be fair, most media outlets do this to some degree nowadays, but it doesn't make it right correct! LOL

G

I see what ya did there, gordi! 

I only have two comments to offer to you points here - we fight like we train, and every war is a long series of itty bitty mini-wars fought on individual levels. The grandest strategy boils down to two fine young men energetically trying to kill one another, one of which may well die (thus ending the entire war - for him), and that action is just rubber-stamped across the entire theater of a war to make up a "strategic plan". So stopping that operation - training or not - IS "stopping the entire war" It may well have been during a break in training, but if so, that does not explain why the radio operator needed to be silenced. I'm not familiar enough with British army operations - is it common practice there to halt communications because one is taking a breather?


In all candor, if it was a operation out in Indian Country, the radio operator should have been using headphones or an ear piece or the like, to avoid broadcasting the location of the patrol to every Bad Guy within 200 yards of them every time the radio crackles, so a case can be made for bad practices on several levels I think.

So, IF it was an actual recruitment commercial, then the only two messages I personally can get out of it is "look at us - see how woke we are?" OR "British Army - be all that you can be, until you get as dead as you can get". Neither seems a good recruiting strategy, which is why I have to wonder whether it is an actual recruiting commercial.

Your mileage may vary - and I bet it does!

.