Ongoing puberty suppression should be an available treatment option for non-binary ad

[Ninurta]

It’s not for me to judge but if you have fleas, ticks, rabies, bite or pee on my furniture, I’ll probably not be asking you over for a beer. At least you’re not a cat and I will respect your canine pronouns.  

That'll work. I've not had fleas in over 10 years (wearing flea collars as knee-bands worked for me - no shit!), haven't had a tick in over 2 years (I think my blood alcohol level poisons them or something), and I agree that offering a beer to someone already prone to pee on furniture is probably a bad idea. As for naming conventions, I respond to "Spike" better than "Spot", and certainly not "Fluffy"!

When the term “self identification” is used, that is actually something different than the “I identify as” crap as it is a legal thing that trans activist in the UK are pushing for. What that means specifically is being able to change your gender/sex on legal documents just on say so without any kind medical oversight or treatment. I think this is a crappy idea. Self-ID is available in several US states like Kalifornia as you might expect and legal in Ireland, Malta, Norway, Argentina, Portugal and Belgium. Within the transgender lexicon, I am what they call a truscum or a trans-medicalist as a pejorative because I don’t believe you can be trans without gender dysphoria which requires a medical diagnosis and not just somebody claiming what they are because of their feelz.

I think we agree here. If I self-identify as a baseball bat, that won't translate well to grabbing me by the knees and trying to whack a ball with me. Feelz and Realz don't always coincide, despite the efforts of some to make it so. I think there has to be a bit more than a mere self-identification to make stuff happen.

It does seem a bit counterintuitive but the term is meant to be representative of what a trans person has transitioned into and presents as. Therefore, trans women are biologically male that transition to be women and trans men are biological females that transition to live as men. Technically, I am considered a trans woman but that is not a description I use for myself or something I am seen as. I am just a woman first and foremost but one of trans experience/history is how I prefer to put it if I have to put it at all.

Thanks for the explanation. It helps me comprehend. It seems that the finial term is the important one, from my perspective. All I wanted to understand is what that individual wants to be known as, and the "trans" part was confusing me - I didn't understand which way the transition was moving as it was phrased.

Well, for the majority of trans folks, being trans as you can imagine, especially for those who are visibly trans or for those that go through transition publicly like while still on the same job for example it is a pretty big deal because it is something that upsets a lot of people. It can lead to discrimination in housing and employment and a person can face hostility and prejudice. There can be legal issues involved too like getting correct documents and people generally take several years getting through the process. Then there’s the whole social matter of being possibly rejected by your friends, family and parents that most struggle with and can often be heartbreaking not to mention that those that medically transition, depending on how much they need to do to calm their distress, have to deal with doctors and hormones and surgeries and hair removal or a double mastectomy and how to pay for it all.

I can understand the trauma involved in a public transition, but in the final analysis, the only thing that matters to me is how they want to be seen in the now. If I was not there for the transition, then throwing "trans" in there just confuses my simple mind. Now, it may be that due to the trauma of the past, they would want to be up front and let me know ahead of time to avoid traumas of the present, but really my own past worries me a lot more than theirs worries me. What is, is, and what was is gone. I think frank, non-confrontational conversations, had once and not continually hammered in would accomplish that fairly well with folks like me.

The majority (80%+) of transgender people do not have bottom or genital reconstruction surgery which alone costs $18,000 to $25,000  for male to female in the US so many go to Thailand where it is considerably cheaper but has higher logistical costs. Female to male lower surgery can cost upwards of $100,000 as it is considerably more involved and takes a series of surgeries for phalloplasty. Facial hair removal can cost $10 to $20K and take several years of laser and painful electrolysis and most MtF’s go for a breast augmentation costing $6,000 to $8,000 and many also go for brutal facial feminization surgery that can cost $35,000 to $50,000 and for those that do opt for surgeries there’s the pain and recovery thing so all in all, it has a great bearing in the real world for the people that go through all this.For some, being trans in an identity in and of itself.

To be honest, the price of the bottom surgery sound like a bargain. My wife's ex husband used to beat her, and he hit her so hard once it crushed her nose, necessitatiing reconstructive surgery. It cost 15 k to reconstruct a mere nose, and it seems to me that genitalia are more intricate, and m-f surgery should cost quite a bit more.

That’s a good question but this is something most people can’t get past. This is especially true if someone’s gender is ambiguous or called into question. For a lot of men insecure about their masculinity or sexuality, should they be attracted to a trans woman, they can question their own heterosexuality  and become very uncomfortable.

And I think that is what it all boils down to - the insecurity of the observer. That is a tough nut to crack - I have no idea how one would install security in a person insecure at their core.

Sorry for the bad stereotype and visual but if a 6’2" fifty year old with broad shoulders, a deep voice and a heavy masculine build with a poorly concealed 5 o’clock shadow comes out and tells you they are a woman are you going to buy it and just accept them for who they say they are? That’s admirable but chances are you might not be as accepting as you think you might be? Just sayn’. I honestly don’t know why anyone would want to announce their transness unless it is impossible to not pass as their target gender.  

Nope. being honest here, I wouldn't buy it at all. I'd accept  it, but not BELIEVE it right down in the middle of me. Too much incongruity for me to process. As an aside, your example pretty much describes ME, except I'm older than that and my 5 o'clock shadow has now translated into a white beard nearly down to my belt. oh-and I'm not a woman, won't even attempt to pass as one. The beard would probably give it away anyhow. That, and the way my knuckles drag the ground when I try to walk upright.

Transgender people with “unexpected plumbing” are encouraged to disclose their status upfront. Don’t confuse them with “traps” that are usually cross-dressing gay males.

Yeah, I'm just coming to grips with the difference between transgender and cross-dressing. Be gentle, I'm fragile... but only slightly confused by this point. I'm getting there.

This is all beyond me because I’m not very much of a political person however to me, what passes as conservative today is pretty much anti-LGBTx as part of the Republican platform and is overly concerned what people do in their bedrooms or to their bodies.

Exactly. You are not alone - a great many people confuse "Conservative" with "Republican". I used to be a Republican, but in the early to mid 1990's I left that party because of the hostile Neocon takeover of it. Neocons are not Conservatives, but since for a time the Republican party was conservative, and then got taken over by Neocons who are not, it left a lot of folks confused as to what "conservative" is. As a Conservative, I don't care what other folks do in their bedrooms - it's THEIR bedroom, not mine, and I've got my own to concern myself with. No time left for me to police theirs - they ought to be able to do that on their own.

I can’t really answer that because I am not involved with the alphabet community. I don’t think they want you to LIKE it, just to know that they exist and want to be treated fairly and equally. I know many of them feel the same way about heterosexuality being constantly shoved down their throats at every turn and are tired of being marginalized for being different. I’m not the right person to ask about this but when it comes to radical loud-mouthed in-your-face trans activists, I wish they would all shut the hell up.

I can see it up to a point. I argued in favor of gay marriage, but that, to my mind, was simple - it was equality under the law. Legal issues of equality are fairly clear-cut, but social issues are a bit foggier, and religious ones foggier still. Social convention cannot be legislated. Oh, folks can TRY to pass laws enforcing it, but at the end of the day, people are going to do what they are going to do, and believe what they are going to believe, and just take it underground of laws are passed in an effort to change their thinking. Legislation of social concerns is doomed to failure because of that. No amount of screaming will change that, and is, in fact, counter-productive, serving only to entrench the opposition in their ways and beliefs.

Someone is trying to force you into being gay or trans? I’m not sure I understand? I’m a live and let live person too unless somebody comes after me then watch out. I’m armed and dangerous!    

No. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer. I was speaking of political issues, and tend to forget that you are an apolitical sort of gal. I'm sort of just like you, in that I am who and what I am, and no one can force me to be anyone or anything else. I've had several gay friends (no trans friends - that I know of, anyhow), and have never had any trouble. None of them ever approached me sexually, or tried to "put the moves" on me. Maybe they valued the friendship more, or maybe I'm just too ugly. Don't know, don't care. The only time I've ever been approached in that manner was by a stranger, and after I made it clear that wasn't going to happen because I don't swing that way, he just went away. No harm, no foul, no trouble.

No, forcing anything on anyone is not cool and I’m not trying to force anything on anyone here. I know a lot of folks don’t like people like me and that’s their prerogative just like a lot of folks don’t like blacks or Mexicans or Muslims or whatever and I’m not out to force or change anyone’s mind or beliefs. My only agenda is to shed some light and bring some information about folks like me that maybe because they didn’t know about these things, some might have more information about the subject to have better informed opinions. I can present information, what you do with it is up to you.

I can appreciate that, and I DO appreciate the education. One never stops learning until one dies, and I'm not entirely convinced even that is the end of education. I don't think you are trying to force anything on anyone, and apologize if I left that impression. It's pretty clear you are not - you asked if people had questions, you didn't come in trying to kick their bar stools out from under them.

Thank you so much for your comments and questions and for the opportunity to talk about these things. Sorry for talking so much!  :smalleyeroll:

No problem. You're not talking too much. There are depths to be plumbed here that short and trite answers will not suffice to explain.

I appreciate the insight into how the subject is breached with guys you may get involved with. I myself am a good deal more blunt when getting into a relationship with a gal, but there is a lot to be said for a softer approach, I suppose. In my case, I just come right out and say "I'm an asshole. You can either live with that, or live without it, but either way I'm still gonna be an asshole". Softness is just not my forte. Grace can verify that is exactly how I approach the situation... and she can verify that I'm an asshole, too. Like I told her right in the beginning - "I come with references"!

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