Thanks for starting this thread.
Occasionally, I start drinking, and find it to be a good idea to go through Facebook posts kicking over apple carts to see what happens. Recently, under such circumstances, I had occasion to interact with an alleged "witch". Now, I've known a couple of real-life actual witches. Once upon a time these mountains were replete with them. I guess they moved into the wilderness with the rest of the ne'er-do-wells to escape the confines of a civilization that was at odds with them. Anyhow, I'm not a stranger to the reality of it.
This particular "witch" posted an image of what to do if you wanted to be a "witch", and it was a listing of mostly books to read. You don't get witchery out of books. As far as I have seen, it's either hereditary or by invitation, taken under the wing so to speak of an actual witch and taught the ins and outs of it. It is passed on by word of mouth, not the written word.
Gerald Gardner was the first to think that witchery could be transmitted via the written word, and Gardnerian witchcraft (which bears NO resemblance to actual witchcraft) was born. I call such folks, those who get their witchery out of books, "Barnes and Noble witches". One of my step daughters (of a former wife, not Grace) was such a "witch". Her mother was the real deal, but she herself had no such luck... so she thought she could force the issue by getting her religion out of books instead of asking her ma about it.
Anyhow, back to the story at hand. Being the grouchy old bastard I am, I posted a comment under the book listing:
True to form, it provoked a reaction:
Now, Dianic Witches are a perverted branch of Gardnerian witchcraft - meaning it's entirely a made-up thing. Gardner made modern "wicca" up from whole cloth, and weak minded folk took that and ran with it. They ran in all directions with it, willy-nilly, and "developed" an entire family of "traditions" that all trace back to Gardner's fantasies. You can't grow a real plant from a plastic ficus root, and all modern "wicca" is utter bullshit, having nothing to do with the Old Religion. Anyhow, Dianic witchery is a special kind of stupid, developed by a disgruntled man-hating hag (euphemistically called a "feminist"), and was instituted on 21 December 1971. Note that date, and then note that the "witch" claimed to be "4th generation". There have not been 4 generations since 21 December 1971.
So I responded to that with:
... which lit up the "witch" (no gory pun or Salem references intended) and really got her ass up on her shoulders. She then responded:
What a convoluted path to attempt to cover the fact that there ARE NO "4th generation" Dianic witches! POOF! The bubble was popped, and my work there was done.
Item: if her mother was born in 1961, then her "greatmothers" (by which I presume she means "great grand mothers") were indeed VERY long in the tooth to be "initiated into a coven" in 1971 - never mind the fact that the cult was initiated at the very end of that year in California, and would have taken some few years more to spread all the way to the Virginia outback.
Item: I have never known ANY actual witches of the Old Ways to be members of a "coven", which is a Gardnerian concept. They are almost always solitary and stand-offish, and not too trusting of others. Probably something from the actual history they have been handed down, as opposed to the gregarious Gardnerian fantasy.
Item: Actual witches do NOT consider themselves "pagans". It's their religion, and they don't consider it in Christian terms. It is not defined, to them, by Christians.
Item: She admits that Dianic witchcraft came out of the Women's Liberation movement. That right there is an admission that it doesn't trace all the way back to Ye Olde Days of real life witchery.
Item: I redacted her actual birthdate in the interest of not posting personally identifiable information. She was likely attempting to correlate her birth with the 17th anniversary of the founding of her "religion", but apparently did not realize that I know what that actual date was, and she was several days off.
Item: Real witches do not have "covens", and therefore do not have "high priestesses". That is, again, another Gardnerian concept. I think she may have been trying to intimidate me, but without realizing that I can't be intimidated by "high priestesses" playing at being witches - I've known the real deal. I think, rather, that had she known anything about me, then perhaps THEY would be intimidated. I don't burn witches, but I can sure as hell set them down and make them get quiet. I've done it. One of them once told me that I have "The Gift", whatever that is. She didn't elaborate since I didn't express any interest in learning to "work the roots" or dance naked in the moonlight with her.
So no, I didn't have any further questions - that post told me everything I needed to know. I responded so:
She's playing at being a "witch", is in reality a "Barnes and Noble Witch", and no real danger to anyone other than herself.
Like my step-daughter mentioned above. She was warned by both myself and her mother that she was playing with things she did not understand and would likely get burnt, but she ignored us, with predictable results. She invited things she did not understand into her world, things she had NO idea how to get rid of, and is probably still being plagued by them to this day. The first two or 3 times she did that, I got rid of those "things" in the interest of preserving a happy home, but I finally got tired of it, realized she would never learn her lesson, and let them have her. Hell, they weren't bothering ME, so why not? Folks gotta learn some way, if they ever can, and I was probably doing her a disservice by intervening to begin with.
lessons learned:
1) There are real, actual witches.
2) Barnes and Noble witches are not among them, but are easily recognized and differentiated - and often a danger to themselves.
3) Playing with things you know nothing about will end poorly, and there are those around who don't even care what you do to yourself. Those folks will eventually stop protecting you and let the wolves eat you.
4) Barnes and Noble witches still piss me off. They, and indeed all Gardnerians, are polluting what was once an honorable tradition.
.
Occasionally, I start drinking, and find it to be a good idea to go through Facebook posts kicking over apple carts to see what happens. Recently, under such circumstances, I had occasion to interact with an alleged "witch". Now, I've known a couple of real-life actual witches. Once upon a time these mountains were replete with them. I guess they moved into the wilderness with the rest of the ne'er-do-wells to escape the confines of a civilization that was at odds with them. Anyhow, I'm not a stranger to the reality of it.
This particular "witch" posted an image of what to do if you wanted to be a "witch", and it was a listing of mostly books to read. You don't get witchery out of books. As far as I have seen, it's either hereditary or by invitation, taken under the wing so to speak of an actual witch and taught the ins and outs of it. It is passed on by word of mouth, not the written word.
Gerald Gardner was the first to think that witchery could be transmitted via the written word, and Gardnerian witchcraft (which bears NO resemblance to actual witchcraft) was born. I call such folks, those who get their witchery out of books, "Barnes and Noble witches". One of my step daughters (of a former wife, not Grace) was such a "witch". Her mother was the real deal, but she herself had no such luck... so she thought she could force the issue by getting her religion out of books instead of asking her ma about it.
Anyhow, back to the story at hand. Being the grouchy old bastard I am, I posted a comment under the book listing:
Quote:Seriously? Another Barnes and Noble witch? Amateurs!
True to form, it provoked a reaction:
Quote:actually sir I am a hereditary witch 4th generation Dianiac to be precise lol. It's for beginners as you can tell. To each their own.
Now, Dianic Witches are a perverted branch of Gardnerian witchcraft - meaning it's entirely a made-up thing. Gardner made modern "wicca" up from whole cloth, and weak minded folk took that and ran with it. They ran in all directions with it, willy-nilly, and "developed" an entire family of "traditions" that all trace back to Gardner's fantasies. You can't grow a real plant from a plastic ficus root, and all modern "wicca" is utter bullshit, having nothing to do with the Old Religion. Anyhow, Dianic witchery is a special kind of stupid, developed by a disgruntled man-hating hag (euphemistically called a "feminist"), and was instituted on 21 December 1971. Note that date, and then note that the "witch" claimed to be "4th generation". There have not been 4 generations since 21 December 1971.
So I responded to that with:
Quote:Oh, I see. Well, as you say, to each their own. I do have one serious question, though - how is it one can be hereditary 4th generation in a religion that began on winter solstice, 1971, which is just at two generations ago?
... which lit up the "witch" (no gory pun or Salem references intended) and really got her ass up on her shoulders. She then responded:
Quote: Well sugar let's give you the breakdown of the blood line both sides of my family are witches mind you we are pagan. Correct me if I am wrong. First off I am wiccan not just pagan yes fourth generation due to the fact that both my greatmothers were initiated at a later time into the Dianiac coven once it was established and in turn my grandmother did and my mom and then me sir so once again yes 4th gen. Also the dianiac witches came out of the women's liberation movement as well ask yourself how long that fight went on for. My mother was born in 61' I was born in 88 and my bday is (date redacted) I was raised in wicca and started my year and a day at 12 no path was chosen by me at that point. It is within our practice and coven that every 10 years a high priestess my ordain another. There are multiple covens that have branched off the original that started in California. We consider it a healthy practice. All 3 of the previously mentioned women are high priestess. Cough cough hopefully so will I. So there you have it. Do you have any additional questions?
What a convoluted path to attempt to cover the fact that there ARE NO "4th generation" Dianic witches! POOF! The bubble was popped, and my work there was done.
Item: if her mother was born in 1961, then her "greatmothers" (by which I presume she means "great grand mothers") were indeed VERY long in the tooth to be "initiated into a coven" in 1971 - never mind the fact that the cult was initiated at the very end of that year in California, and would have taken some few years more to spread all the way to the Virginia outback.
Item: I have never known ANY actual witches of the Old Ways to be members of a "coven", which is a Gardnerian concept. They are almost always solitary and stand-offish, and not too trusting of others. Probably something from the actual history they have been handed down, as opposed to the gregarious Gardnerian fantasy.
Item: Actual witches do NOT consider themselves "pagans". It's their religion, and they don't consider it in Christian terms. It is not defined, to them, by Christians.
Item: She admits that Dianic witchcraft came out of the Women's Liberation movement. That right there is an admission that it doesn't trace all the way back to Ye Olde Days of real life witchery.
Item: I redacted her actual birthdate in the interest of not posting personally identifiable information. She was likely attempting to correlate her birth with the 17th anniversary of the founding of her "religion", but apparently did not realize that I know what that actual date was, and she was several days off.
Item: Real witches do not have "covens", and therefore do not have "high priestesses". That is, again, another Gardnerian concept. I think she may have been trying to intimidate me, but without realizing that I can't be intimidated by "high priestesses" playing at being witches - I've known the real deal. I think, rather, that had she known anything about me, then perhaps THEY would be intimidated. I don't burn witches, but I can sure as hell set them down and make them get quiet. I've done it. One of them once told me that I have "The Gift", whatever that is. She didn't elaborate since I didn't express any interest in learning to "work the roots" or dance naked in the moonlight with her.
So no, I didn't have any further questions - that post told me everything I needed to know. I responded so:
Quote:Nope, that covered it, and told me all I need to know. Thank you.
She's playing at being a "witch", is in reality a "Barnes and Noble Witch", and no real danger to anyone other than herself.
Like my step-daughter mentioned above. She was warned by both myself and her mother that she was playing with things she did not understand and would likely get burnt, but she ignored us, with predictable results. She invited things she did not understand into her world, things she had NO idea how to get rid of, and is probably still being plagued by them to this day. The first two or 3 times she did that, I got rid of those "things" in the interest of preserving a happy home, but I finally got tired of it, realized she would never learn her lesson, and let them have her. Hell, they weren't bothering ME, so why not? Folks gotta learn some way, if they ever can, and I was probably doing her a disservice by intervening to begin with.
lessons learned:
1) There are real, actual witches.
2) Barnes and Noble witches are not among them, but are easily recognized and differentiated - and often a danger to themselves.
3) Playing with things you know nothing about will end poorly, and there are those around who don't even care what you do to yourself. Those folks will eventually stop protecting you and let the wolves eat you.
4) Barnes and Noble witches still piss me off. They, and indeed all Gardnerians, are polluting what was once an honorable tradition.
.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.
Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’
Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’