Have been spending a lot of time this week in meetings and in classes. It has been a bit of a brain buster, and being one of those people that has the question "why" perpetually on my lips, a paper I just read gave me pause. Not because it was new information, but because it was old information being view in a new light.

It has been accepted for years among the medical community, that early life experiences and exposure to chronic stress, can have lingering effects into adulthood. They have a screening tool used in many area to identify some of those stressors. ACE screening for Adverse Childhood Experiences, is commonly used, because it is believed to improve efficacy and efficiency of health care, better support individual and family health and well-being, and reduce long-term health costs. So the premise is not new, but I will admit I was a bit puzzled and the gears in my mind sped up when I read the paper presented.

The paper read:

Quote:“This ‘two-hit’ hypothesis is extremely interesting when we think about disease progression across the lifespan. When an inflammatory disease, something like COVID-19, hits someone after a life of chronic stress, that second event tips the scales,” said Molly Hyer, Ph.D., a postdoctoral fellow in Neigh’s lab.

Now Neigh's lab has determined that

Quote:The team discovered that the same stressors can affect both sexes, but the impact is different according to biological sex, scientifically defined as the hormonal and chromosomal profile of an organism.

 Which has me questioning if they believe adolescents will be affected by the stressors of COVID later in life, but men will react differently and display a different set of symptoms from women. My bigger question is if they are looking at the effects of the virus, or the actions that we have taken in response to the virus, they are suspecting will affect the population in the future.

Are we creating health, and possibly mental problems that can be avoided? We are having lots of talks about potential damage in the future, but we are not being very proactive about doing much in prevention. We are big at teaching to avoid the stressors that we know can affect a child later in life. If the life stressors of COVID is being included on the list, we are at a point where we can do something about it, beside talk about what to expect in the future.

In my opinion.

Those are some really good questions. When ai was still working, I learned about ACE. They actually had us take a test where we got a general idea about our score. I took the test home to my husband and had him take it. His score was so high. His childhood was awful. He’s in a nursing home now. I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if he had a “normal” childhood. 

I believe that stress adds up and accumulates in the body as chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation has been linked to autoimmune diseases, heart disease, diabetes, etc. 

I agree with you that prevention should be looked at more, and that doctors should try and evaluate people in their annual physical with an ACE test and look at being proactive. It raises some very good points.

"Life is hard, wear a helmet."
-Anon

(08-01-2020, 03:34 AM)ChiefD Wrote: Those are some really good questions. When ai was still working, I learned about ACE. They actually had us take a test where we got a general idea about our score. I took the test home to my husband and had him take it. His score was so high. His childhood was awful. He’s in a nursing home now. I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if he had a “normal” childhood. 

I believe that stress adds up and accumulates in the body as chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation has been linked to autoimmune diseases, heart disease, diabetes, etc. 

I agree with you that prevention should be looked at more, and that doctors should try and evaluate people in their annual physical with an ACE test and look at being proactive. It raises some very good points.

I see the trending of making stress the culprit for all of our ills, especially when it comes to women. They are trying to make a connection to many illnesses and psychological issues, including cancer, Alzheimer's, and mental illnesses. It is easy to see the connection with chronic stress and the wear and tear on the human body, but it is impossible to live in a stress free modern world,

They are also monitoring the effects of the stressors of poverty on children and adults. But again I have to ask, what came first the chicken or the egg. In cultures and villages where children are not exposed to modern lifestyles, their stress levels are extremely low, though they live in what is considered poor and uncivilized environments. The stressors we vilify are the ones we have chosen, and pass on to our children.

As our modern society bleeds into those areas, we see the effect seeping in with it. A place where it is most evident is among the Amish and the Mennonites. We see the dangers of our modern society but we do nothing to stop what what we have started. It is like the genie that we can't put back in the bottle, and we haven't learned that you have to be careful what you wish for.

(08-01-2020, 04:02 AM)beez Wrote: "Life is hard, wear a helmet."
-Anon

Wear a helmet and stop chasing your tail.

I feel as though I've woke up on a foreign planet some days. I truly am blown away how the world changes in exponential ways around me in a time frame that leaves my head spinning. 1995 withthe internet, 2001 and the twin towers and everything after that has just been a blur. I talk to kids today and realize just what different beings they are from me. At their age, I shared much with my parents regardless of what I may have felt then. Our experiences were shared. We drove, we watched TV, we talked and we socialized and much the same way that they had in their youth. Now I look at and speak with kids and I don't even experience that we are even the same species. The world changes so fast now and I'm not ever prepared for it. It is all terrifically and horribly mesmerizing and terrifying, simaltaneously. My point I suppose is that this world is so different from the one I knew for most of my life that my knee jerk reaction is to recover what seemed to be my sane world from before. I finally realized I can't control what is happening nor how it happens. It's out of my hands.
So as a way to cope, I have become a voyeur. I watch with amazement and try not to make myself part of it. Because I wont be... and I can't be and I can't change it. It's a mad, mad, mad world and it's getting madder and I'm trying to avoid going mad engaging the madness. So if stress is going to be the tipping point then I'll avoid that stress and all the other nonsense this new world shoves down our throats, and daily. Truth is lies and every meme on the web becomes "fact". I can't and won't engage any of it because if I did, forget Covid, life itself on this "new" planet, this bizarre Astral plane I no longer regularly relate to that we inhabit will consume me with or without viral assitance..Did I mention? Aummmmmm........

(08-01-2020, 04:37 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: I feel as though I've woke up on a foreign planet some days. I truly am blown away how the world changes in exponential ways around me in a time frame that leaves my head spinning. 1995 withthe internet, 2001 and the twin towers and everything after that has just been a blur. I talk to kids today and realize just what different beings they are from me. At their age, I shared much with my parents regardless of what I may have felt then. Our experiences were shared. We drove, we watched TV, we talked and we socialized and much the same way that they had in their youth. Now I look at and speak with kids and I don't even experience that we are even the same species. The world changes so fast now and I'm not ever prepared for it. It is all terrifically and horribly mesmerizing and terrifying, simaltaneously. My point I suppose is that this world is so different from the one I knew for most of my life that my knee jerk reaction is to recover what seemed to be my sane world from before. I finally realized I can't control what is happening nor how it happens. It's out of my hands.
So as a way to cope, I have become a voyeur. I watch with amazement and try not to make myself part of it. Because I wont be... and I can't be and I can't change it. It's a mad, mad, mad world and it's getting madder and I'm trying to avoid going mad engaging the madness. So if stress is going to be the tipping point then I'll avoid that stress and all the other nonsense this new world shoves down our throats, and daily. Truth is lies and every meme on the web becomes "fact". I can't and won't engage any of it because if I did, forget Covid, life itself on this "new" planet, this bizarre Astral plane I no longer regularly relate to that we inhabit will consume me with or without viral assitance..Did I mention?  Aummmmmm........

I ache for the children. We have failed them horribly. Your post got these lyrics rolling around in my head. Thankfully, my duty is over, so i can open that bottle of wine that I have been chilling.    

(08-01-2020, 04:37 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: I feel as though I've woke up on a foreign planet some days. I truly am blown away how the world changes in exponential ways around me in a time frame that leaves my head spinning. 1995 withthe internet, 2001 and the twin towers and everything after that has just been a blur. I talk to kids today and realize just what different beings they are from me. At their age, I shared much with my parents regardless of what I may have felt then. Our experiences were shared. We drove, we watched TV, we talked and we socialized and much the same way that they had in their youth. Now I look at and speak with kids and I don't even experience that we are even the same species. The world changes so fast now and I'm not ever prepared for it. It is all terrifically and horribly mesmerizing and terrifying, simaltaneously. My point I suppose is that this world is so different from the one I knew for most of my life that my knee jerk reaction is to recover what seemed to be my sane world from before. I finally realized I can't control what is happening nor how it happens. It's out of my hands.
So as a way to cope, I have become a voyeur. I watch with amazement and try not to make myself part of it. Because I wont be... and I can't be and I can't change it. It's a mad, mad, mad world and it's getting madder and I'm trying to avoid going mad engaging the madness. So if stress is going to be the tipping point then I'll avoid that stress and all the other nonsense this new world shoves down our throats, and daily. Truth is lies and every meme on the web becomes "fact". I can't and won't engage any of it because if I did, forget Covid, life itself on this "new" planet, this bizarre Astral plane I no longer regularly relate to that we inhabit will consume me with or without viral assitance..Did I mention?  Aummmmmm........

This post resonates with me.  Sometimes in practical senses I am supposed to be the answer to every problem.  I don't carry a phone, don't own one.  Just get on with life.  Have a different upbringing and hands-on life's experience I guess.

I have no idea how to mend a handheld phone that's broken but I won't pay $1000 plus for a new one to watch the user constantly walking around with their head at the face of it.  I guess it's like having a GPS to navigate life.  Forgive me, I consider myself 'old'.  

I see bitching about deaths and serious accident on road due to handheld devices.  That mix of driving with a device just doesn't work for me.  Sure, there's cameras and fines etc but when I gotta brake suddenly because some meat head with their phone walks across the road mit head phones nearly every-time I go into town I wonder what has happened to common dog sense.  Beeping the horn isn't working as I would get ignored or receive the middle finger.  So I guess I have to be a voyeur too later in my life if not now in other aspects.  I don't stress out though but I see young people stressing out over a busted phone or the internet going out in a storm per-say. 

Just a sigh and I move on.  My little rant.

Kind regards,

Bally:)

Explanation: @NightskyeB4Dawn  

It gets worse I am afraid ...

On Covid19 ...

A Private Place Where Viruses Hide!   by @"OmegaLogos"  [answer: It hides in our gonads and going to have to cut them off]

On life in general ...

According to Genetics, at age 47, I am already dead!   by @"OmegaLogos" [answer: 38yrs max is the genetic limit of life]

Personal Disclosure:  And don't start me on mental health issues ok ...

60% of all people will suffer a mental illness during their lifetime and 25% of all people will suffer a mental illness during any one year.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYBODY HAVE ANY CHILDREN UNTIL WE FIX MORBIDITY , MORTALITY AND TAXES!

Otherwise you are damning them to suffer sickness, death and taxes and that is ABUSE!

That is all!

(08-01-2020, 06:10 AM)OmegaLogos Wrote: Explanation: @NightskyeB4Dawn  

It gets worse I am afraid ...

On Covid19 ...

A Private Place Where Viruses Hide!   by @"OmegaLogos"  [answer: It hides in our gonads and going to have to cut them off]

On life in general ...

According to Genetics, at age 47, I am already dead!   by @"OmegaLogos" [answer: 38yrs max is the genetic limit of life]

Personal Disclosure:  And don't start me on mental health issues ok ...

60% of all people will suffer a mental illness during their lifetime and 25% of all people will suffer a mental illness during any one year.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYBODY HAVE ANY CHILDREN UNTIL WE FIX MORBIDITY , MORTALITY AND TAXES!

Otherwise you are damning them to suffer sickness, death and taxes and that is ABUSE!

That is all!

Children have at least half a chance with nature, it is the illnesses that are created by man that sets them up for a world that is unnatural and unhealthy.

We don't know moderation and we don't know when to stop. It is our excesses that will aide in our downfall.

Quote:We don't know moderation and we don't know when to stop. It is our excesses that will aide in our downfall.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=8100]

Always liked that strip.

Cheers

(08-01-2020, 04:24 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote:

(08-01-2020, 03:34 AM)ChiefD Wrote: Those are some really good questions. When ai was still working, I learned about ACE. They actually had us take a test where we got a general idea about our score. I took the test home to my husband and had him take it. His score was so high. His childhood was awful. He’s in a nursing home now. I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if he had a “normal” childhood. 

I believe that stress adds up and accumulates in the body as chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation has been linked to autoimmune diseases, heart disease, diabetes, etc. 

I agree with you that prevention should be looked at more, and that doctors should try and evaluate people in their annual physical with an ACE test and look at being proactive. It raises some very good points.

I see the trending of making stress the culprit for all of our ills, especially when it comes to women. They are trying to make a connection to many illnesses and psychological issues, including cancer, Alzheimer's, and mental illnesses. It is easy to see the connection with chronic stress and the wear and tear on the human body, but it is impossible to live in a stress free modern world,

They are also monitoring the effects of the stressors of poverty on children and adults. But again I have to ask, what came first the chicken or the egg. In cultures and villages where children are not exposed to modern lifestyles, their stress levels are  extremely low, though they live in what is considered poor and uncivilized environments. The stressors we vilify are the ones we have chosen, and pass on to our children.

As our modern society bleeds into those areas, we see the effect seeping in with it. A place where it is most evident is among the Amish and the Mennonites. We see the dangers of our modern society but we do nothing to stop what what we have started. It is like the genie that we can't put back in the bottle, and we haven't learned that you have to be careful what you wish for.

This post speaks to me. There will always be stress. Our westernized life seems to be pretty toxic. The rates of heart disease, type II diabetes and obesity is killing so many. We’d rather sit around on our asses all day rather than get out in the real world and see what’s going on. Since I retired, I am trying to get out every day. My walks and bike rides keep me sane with all the insanity going on out there. In addition, with all the stuff with COVID-19, and people being so divided over everything, it just makes the pile bigger. 

I don’t know what the answer is. Life moves so fast.

(08-02-2020, 12:56 AM)ChiefD Wrote:

(08-01-2020, 04:24 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote:

(08-01-2020, 03:34 AM)ChiefD Wrote: Those are some really good questions. When ai was still working, I learned about ACE. They actually had us take a test where we got a general idea about our score. I took the test home to my husband and had him take it. His score was so high. His childhood was awful. He’s in a nursing home now. I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if he had a “normal” childhood. 

I believe that stress adds up and accumulates in the body as chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation has been linked to autoimmune diseases, heart disease, diabetes, etc. 

I agree with you that prevention should be looked at more, and that doctors should try and evaluate people in their annual physical with an ACE test and look at being proactive. It raises some very good points.

I see the trending of making stress the culprit for all of our ills, especially when it comes to women. They are trying to make a connection to many illnesses and psychological issues, including cancer, Alzheimer's, and mental illnesses. It is easy to see the connection with chronic stress and the wear and tear on the human body, but it is impossible to live in a stress free modern world,

They are also monitoring the effects of the stressors of poverty on children and adults. But again I have to ask, what came first the chicken or the egg. In cultures and villages where children are not exposed to modern lifestyles, their stress levels are  extremely low, though they live in what is considered poor and uncivilized environments. The stressors we vilify are the ones we have chosen, and pass on to our children.

As our modern society bleeds into those areas, we see the effect seeping in with it. A place where it is most evident is among the Amish and the Mennonites. We see the dangers of our modern society but we do nothing to stop what what we have started. It is like the genie that we can't put back in the bottle, and we haven't learned that you have to be careful what you wish for.

This post speaks to me. There will always be stress. Our westernized life seems to be pretty toxic. The rates of heart disease, type II diabetes and obesity is killing so many. We’d rather sit around on our asses all day rather than get out in the real world and see what’s going on. Since I retired, I am trying to get out every day. My walks and bike rides keep me sane with all the insanity going on out there. In addition, with all the stuff with COVID-19, and people being so divided over everything, it just makes the pile bigger. 

I don’t know what the answer is. Life moves so fast.

I agree with everything here. I'd like to say I have travelled most of the world and none of the cultures I experienced pay as much value to long work hours as we do and very few are willing to poison themselves with the trash Americans pass off for food. The Drive-thru certainly has made it's contribution to our chronic illness and early death. It's hard to dispute when I drive by these factories of empty caloric value with their lines wrapping endlessly around the building, day and night. As the Doobie Brothers Album cover stated, "What were once vices are now habits". If this is the greatest Country on the Planet then why isn't our experience reflecting that?