Don't ever call President Trump a White Supremacist again. If he was, this man wouldn't have died today.

Quote:TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (AP) — The federal government on Tuesday carried out its first execution in almost two decades, killing by lethal injection a man convicted of murdering an Arkansas family in a 1990s plot to build a whites-only nation in the Pacific Northwest.

The execution of Daniel Lewis Lee came over the objection of the victims’ relatives and following days of legal delays, reviving the debate over capital punishment during a time of widespread social unrest. And the Trump administration’s determination to proceed with executions added a new chapter to the national conversation about criminal justice reform in the lead-up to the 2020 presidential election.

Just before he died at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Indiana, Lee, professed his innocence.
“I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life, but I’m not a murderer.” said Lee, 47, of Yukon, Oklahoma. “You’re killing an innocent man.”

The government is scheduled to execute two more men this week, including Wesley Ira Purkey on Wednesday for the killing of a Kansas City teenager in 1998. But legal experts say the 68-year-old Purkey, who suffers from dementia, has a greater chance of avoiding that fate because of his mental state.

The decision by the Bureau of Prisons to move forward with executions — the first since 2003 — has drawn scrutiny from civil rights groups and the wider public. Relatives of Lee’s victims sued to try to halt it, citing concerns about the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed more than 135,000 people in the United States and is ravaging prisons nationwide.

Critics argued the government was creating a manufactured urgency for political gain. One of Lee’s lawyers, Ruth Friedman, said it was “beyond shameful that the government, in the end, carried out this execution in haste.”

If he was innocent, as he claimed, then I feel really bad for his family and him.  But for critics to say this was carried out in haste? Come on people! We've been keeping him up for 17 years with our tax payer money! If that's not long enough to prove your innocence, then you're probably not going to prove it.

Another execution is scheduled to take place tomorrow.

Source

(07-14-2020, 08:47 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: Don't ever call President Trump a White Supremacist again. If he was, this man wouldn't have died today.

Quote:TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (AP) — The federal government on Tuesday carried out its first execution in almost two decades, killing by lethal injection a man convicted of murdering an Arkansas family in a 1990s plot to build a whites-only nation in the Pacific Northwest.

The execution of Daniel Lewis Lee came over the objection of the victims’ relatives and following days of legal delays, reviving the debate over capital punishment during a time of widespread social unrest. And the Trump administration’s determination to proceed with executions added a new chapter to the national conversation about criminal justice reform in the lead-up to the 2020 presidential election.

Just before he died at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Indiana, Lee, professed his innocence.
“I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my life, but I’m not a murderer.” said Lee, 47, of Yukon, Oklahoma. “You’re killing an innocent man.”

The government is scheduled to execute two more men this week, including Wesley Ira Purkey on Wednesday for the killing of a Kansas City teenager in 1998. But legal experts say the 68-year-old Purkey, who suffers from dementia, has a greater chance of avoiding that fate because of his mental state.

The decision by the Bureau of Prisons to move forward with executions — the first since 2003 — has drawn scrutiny from civil rights groups and the wider public. Relatives of Lee’s victims sued to try to halt it, citing concerns about the coronavirus pandemic, which has killed more than 135,000 people in the United States and is ravaging prisons nationwide.

Critics argued the government was creating a manufactured urgency for political gain. One of Lee’s lawyers, Ruth Friedman, said it was “beyond shameful that the government, in the end, carried out this execution in haste.”

If he was innocent, as he claimed, then I feel really bad for his family and him.  But for critics to say this was carried out in haste? Come on people! We've been keeping him up for 17 years with our tax payer money! If that's not long enough to prove your innocence, then you're probably not going to prove it.

Another execution is scheduled to take place tomorrow.

Source

Long before execution can take place all death row inmates have to have exhausted the appeals process. In fact when it comes to federal death penalty cases the appeals process generally takes an average of 16 years, thus the guy waiting 17 years on death row before finally being executed.

(07-14-2020, 08:56 PM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: Long before execution can take place all death row inmates have to have exhausted the appeals process. In fact when it comes to federal death penalty cases the appeals process generally takes an average of 16 years, thus the guy waiting 17 years on death row before finally being executed.

Well, that's just too long to keep some killer's ass up with my money. They need to appoint more judges so we can speed this process up, or re-write the laws, or something.

(07-14-2020, 08:59 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: ...They need to appoint more judges so we can speed this process up, or re-write the laws, or something.

Jeez! I thought y'all were against big government and authoritarianism? More judges and laws seems contradictory?

I'm split on the death penalty.  One one hand, if you have 10 witnesses who saw someone unjustly murder somebody or rape somebody, sure, go ahead and get rid of the scumbag.

On the other hand, if there's even a shred of doubt about being guilty, they shouldn't execute anybody in my opinion.  I haven't looked into this case yet, but on the day you walk to the lethal injection site, you know it's a wrap, so why continue to insist you're innocent?

(07-14-2020, 10:30 PM)Freija Wrote:

(07-14-2020, 08:59 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: ...They need to appoint more judges so we can speed this process up, or re-write the laws, or something.

Jeez! I thought y'all were against big government and authoritarianism? More judges and laws seems contradictory?

You are right.
I think what we need is less time with endless appeals and with assurance of real evidence (DNA) or Witnesses or Recordings then Execute in a timely manner.

Again, not to upset anyone with a family member on death row, JMHO

(07-14-2020, 11:14 PM)guohua Wrote:

(07-14-2020, 10:30 PM)Freija Wrote:

(07-14-2020, 08:59 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: ...They need to appoint more judges so we can speed this process up, or re-write the laws, or something.

Jeez! I thought y'all were against big government and authoritarianism? More judges and laws seems contradictory?

You are right.
I think what we need is less time with endless appeals and with assurance of real evidence (DNA) or Witnesses or Recordings then Execute in a timely manner.

Again, not to upset anyone with a family member on death row, JMHO

Yes, exactly @"guohua".  DNA and witnesses. If that is produced the first time around I see no reason to prolong things. Maybe ONE appeal, just in case something was staged and it can be proven. If it can't, let's get this over with.

@"Freija" I'm not FOR big government, I just want the process to move faster so my money isn't wasted on feeding and housing some child molester, or murderer for the next 17 years. Just look how many are probably on death row that the tax payer is having to pay to keep up. Why should MY money be used for that?

I think "Second Guesing" is one of Dante's Circles of Hell.

It's human and compassionate to have second thoughts about ending a life.  But we have laws, we are a nation of laws.

And some people, frankly, don't deserve the right to breathe.

I think they use the death penalty too lightly.

Convicted of messing with children?  Death.

Commit a crime using a firearm?  Death.

Kill someone?  Death.

Rape someone?  Death.

Maybe if we actually DID that, then those crimes would be reduced.  Just take them out back, on the edge of a lime pit and a .45 to the back of the head.

*boom*

Yes, I went there.

(07-15-2020, 01:38 AM)beez Wrote: Just take them out back, on the edge of a lime pit and a .45 to the back of the head.

*boom*

Yes, I went there.

I agree.  There are crimes which warrant death.  Gotta be careful what goes into that category, but once it is agreed upon (and the method) sentence should be carried out immediately.  The .45 to the back of the head should be exclusively reserved where a merciful death is in order.  I'm good with a conviction of messing with children:  one sentence ... death!!  Every time ... no nancing about.

But, always let the convicting jury decide ... and right quick ... after the guilty verdict is accepted by the court.  Based on how the jury votes: the arena; hanging; electric chair; lethal injection; crucifixion; the whip; drawing & quartering; burning ... whatever the people want.  Let the verdict be carried out at high noon the following day.  That's all the time any authority requires to commute a sentence.  And, anyone who would commute the perp's sentence must spend one night in the stocks, unprotected, in the dark woods out beyond @"Night Star"'s Shed.

(07-14-2020, 10:30 PM)Freija Wrote: Jeez! I thought y'all were against big government and authoritarianism? More judges and laws seems contradictory?

I'm in your corner on this one.  We don't need anymore judges.  And we need far fewer laws.

Big government and authoritarianism have nothing to do with carrying out a sentence.  They mostly are at fault for getting "it" over with.

In fact, if punishment was actually a deterrent, we could probably get rid of 90% of the Department of Justice at all levels of government.

(07-15-2020, 02:52 AM)Snarl Wrote: ...Based on how the jury votes: the arena; hanging; electric chair; lethal injection; crucifixion; the whip; drawing & quartering; burning ... whatever the people want.  Let the verdict be carried out at high noon the following day.

Damn! You forgot stoning to death. Why don't we go all the way Sharia and cut off the hands of people that steal and hand out 100 lashes for fornicators?

Hastily carried out death sentences are not the answers here when reform of our justice system and the prison industrial complex clearly is.

JFC and y'all call the left commie fascists?

(07-15-2020, 03:16 AM)Freija Wrote: Damn! You forgot stoning to death. Why don't we go all the way Sharia and cut off the hands of people that steal and hand out 100 lashes for fornicators?

LOL ... my bad.  Stoning to Death goes to the top of the list!!

I spent quite a bit of time in the Middle East.  Quick story from Saudi Arabia circa '82.  Some guy left his wallet on the counter of a 7/11 equivalent (do they still have 7/11s?).  Anyway, I saw it sitting there ... unmoved ... for nearly a week.  No one would touch it ... because it meant your hand if did.  Some mullah must'a come by and picked it up after an appropriate amount of time.

The funny part that makes this a story: every time I came in there, you could almost hear people holding their breath hoping I would touch it.  They don't much care what happens to infidels over there.

Lashing is a serious punishment.  I'm disqualifying myself from the pool of folks who would write rules for its use.

(07-15-2020, 01:38 AM)beez Wrote: I think "Second Guesing" is one of Dante's Circles of Hell.

It's human and compassionate to have second thoughts about ending a life.  But we have laws, we are a nation of laws.

And some people, frankly, don't deserve the right to breathe.

I think they use the death penalty too lightly.

Convicted of messing with children?  Death.

Commit a crime using a firearm?  Death.

Kill someone?  Death.

Rape someone?  Death.

Maybe if we actually DID that, then those crimes would be reduced.  Just take them out back, on the edge of a lime pit and a .45 to the back of the head.

*boom*

Yes, I went there.

I agree, but the proof has to be rock solid.  Regarding rape, I think the sentences are a joke considering somebody ruined another's life.  I do believe it should be punishable by death, right after the offender is violated with something jagged.

(07-15-2020, 03:27 AM)Snarl Wrote: Lashing is a serious punishment.  I'm disqualifying myself from the pool of folks who would write rules for its use.

LOL indeed! A .45 to the back of the head is still okay though, right?

Asking for a friend.

I just think we need to be tough, fair, and consistant.

(07-15-2020, 02:59 AM)Snarl Wrote: I'm in your corner on this one.  We don't need anymore judges.  And we need far fewer laws.

Big government and authoritarianism have nothing to do with carrying out a sentence.  They mostly are at fault for getting "it" over with.

In fact, if punishment was actually a deterrent, we could probably get rid of 90% of the Department of Justice at all levels of government.

Bigger government actually increases appeals lengths. Back when we had a smaller government, hangings were carried out swiftly and surely. Bigger government is not the answer, smaller government is.

More judges is not the answer, either. Appeal lengths are not determined by judges. Appeals are searches for legal loopholes to try to find one that allows the convict to still be guilty, but avoid punishment. Lawyers take for ever to search for those loopholes. Close the loopholes. If there is nothing to search for in an attempt to cheat justice, then the process moves along a lot more quickly.

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(07-15-2020, 03:16 AM)Freija Wrote:

(07-15-2020, 02:52 AM)Snarl Wrote: ...Based on how the jury votes: the arena; hanging; electric chair; lethal injection; crucifixion; the whip; drawing & quartering; burning ... whatever the people want.  Let the verdict be carried out at high noon the following day.

Damn! You forgot stoning to death. Why don't we go all the way Sharia and cut off the hands of people that steal and hand out 100 lashes for fornicators?

Because the US is not an Islamic nation. It would be illegal under both Shari'a Law and US law to apply the shari'a here, and could in fact result in the death penalty (swiftly applied) for those who attempted to do so without the blessings of allah - i.e. non-Muslims.

Quote:Hastily carried out death sentences are not the answers here when reform of our justice system and the prison industrial complex clearly is.

Of course they are the answer, and the sooner the better. A dead murderer, rapist, or child molester has a far lower chance of becoming a recidivist. "Justice Reform" is what has brought us to this impasse to begin with.

Quote:JFC and y'all call the left commie fascists?

Yes. They have a tendency to drag out trials into dog and pony shows as well. The end result of death is the same, they just try to very publicly nail down an iron clad (under their law) justification for what is already a foregone conclusion before the trial even starts. kinda like US Leftists.


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(07-15-2020, 03:59 AM)Freija Wrote:

(07-15-2020, 03:27 AM)Snarl Wrote: Lashing is a serious punishment.  I'm disqualifying myself from the pool of folks who would write rules for its use.

LOL indeed! A .45 to the back of the head is still okay though, right?

Asking for a friend.

Of course. It's quick, efficient, and almost always permanent.

Answering for a friend.

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