I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

  Yes that is interesting. 
The person must of purposely left that there, why do you think? Hiding it from a attack so it won't be stolen or burnt in the cabin.

Great Find.

(06-22-2020, 05:44 AM)guohua Wrote:   Yes that is interesting. 
The person must of purposely left that there, why do you think? Hiding it from a attack so it won't be stolen or burnt in the cabin.

Great Find.

Given the timeframe the prayer book had to either belonged to a French soldier during the French and Indian War (Seven Years War to non-Americans) that came through Ohio or was given to an Indian Scout (probably Shawnee). 

The alternative would be that it belonged to a French Fur Trapper and was given to an Indian as some sort of gift or barter. And was just stuffed into a tree hollow as means of returning it to Earth or had to hide it during the buildup for Tecumseh’ Confederation. 

In any case that book has an interesting story that may forever remain unknown.

Perhaps we can never know how much our foot steps will affect the time to come. Its something I often think about wile im walking in nature. Perhaps its the need in each of us to be a little immortal, to reach out past our death in the hope someone will remember. It is a true sadness to look back and watch you food steps slowly disappear knowing no one will ever see them.
So your pastime is not so odd 

(06-22-2020, 04:41 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

I dunno where West Alexandria is in OH, but there was a religious community founded by Germans and populated by Indians (mostly Lenape as I recall) at Gnadenhutten. They were massacred some time during the settlement of Ohio, and I wonder if this German prayer book might be linked to that? The French were active in the area as traders, which might explain how it got into the general vicinity, and the Gnadenhutten Massacre might have a bearing on how it got hidden in the middle of a tree.

Daniel Boone was long-hunting across the river in Kentucky with a brother in law when they came under attack by Shawnees and got separated. his brother in law was never seen again alive, but 20 years later his skeleton was found in a hollow tree by a settler. he had gotten wounded, and taken refuge in the hollow tree to hide, and never came out of it.

My 7 greats back grandfather was Adam O'Brien, who lived a couple years in a hollow sycamore in central WV before he got the gumption to build a cabin. Hollow trees are just where stuff and folks went to hide from attack back in the day.

.

(06-22-2020, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 04:41 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

I dunno where West Alexandria is in OH, but there was a religious community founded by Germans and populated by Indians (mostly Lenape as I recall) at Gnadenhutten. They were massacred some time during the settlement of Ohio, and I wonder if this German prayer book might be linked to that? The French were active in the area as traders, which might explain how it got into the general vicinity, and the Gnadenhutten Massacre might have a bearing on how it got hidden in the middle of a tree.

Daniel Boone was long-hunting across the river in Kentucky with a brother in law when they came under attack by Shawnees and got separated. his brother in law was never seen again alive, but 20 years later his skeleton was found in a hollow tree by a settler. he had gotten wounded, and taken refuge in the hollow tree to hide, and never came out of it.

My 7 greats back grandfather was Adam O'Brien, who lived a couple years in a hollow sycamore in central WV before he got the gumption to build a cabin. Hollow trees are just where stuff and folks went to hide from attack back in the day.

.

I never knew of that settlement. Even stranger is that Hugs (Coach Huggins) is from there. 

Preble County is on the western side of Ohio. Second county north from Cincinnati. Crazy thing about the Shawnee and all the mounds throughout their lands is that they were not mound builders nor descended from the Moundbuilders. They just took over the land when that tribe died out. So while one of the “capitols” of the Shawnee was Chillicothe, they only inherited Serpent Mound.

This is such a wonderful story. What comes to mind is a question, did the soldier hope to come back to his book one day?

Currently living in a very dense forest, trees are wonderful in so many mysterious ways.
I have hidden things in them at various times, varying reasons.

Nothing quite as serious and significant though, but just the idea
of it alone is something to ponder.

Great little story that.

Maybe the owner of the book was returning it 'home'???

This is from my neck of the woods. That's really cool!

Thanks for posting this.

(06-22-2020, 08:20 PM)Ahabstar Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 04:41 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

I dunno where West Alexandria is in OH, but there was a religious community founded by Germans and populated by Indians (mostly Lenape as I recall) at Gnadenhutten. They were massacred some time during the settlement of Ohio, and I wonder if this German prayer book might be linked to that? The French were active in the area as traders, which might explain how it got into the general vicinity, and the Gnadenhutten Massacre might have a bearing on how it got hidden in the middle of a tree.

Daniel Boone was long-hunting across the river in Kentucky with a brother in law when they came under attack by Shawnees and got separated. his brother in law was never seen again alive, but 20 years later his skeleton was found in a hollow tree by a settler. he had gotten wounded, and taken refuge in the hollow tree to hide, and never came out of it.

My 7 greats back grandfather was Adam O'Brien, who lived a couple years in a hollow sycamore in central WV before he got the gumption to build a cabin. Hollow trees are just where stuff and folks went to hide from attack back in the day.

.

I never knew of that settlement. Even stranger is that Hugs (Coach Huggins) is from there. 

Preble County is on the western side of Ohio. Second county north from Cincinnati. Crazy thing about the Shawnee and all the mounds throughout their lands is that they were not mound builders nor descended from the Moundbuilders. They just took over the land when that tribe died out. So while one of the “capitols” of the Shawnee was Chillicothe, they only inherited Serpent Mound.

Have you read about the Glacial Kame Civilization? I think that is where the mound builders methods originated from. Burying their dead in artificial kames they built a.k.a. mounds.

(06-27-2020, 01:09 AM)wessonoil Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 08:20 PM)Ahabstar Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 04:41 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

I dunno where West Alexandria is in OH, but there was a religious community founded by Germans and populated by Indians (mostly Lenape as I recall) at Gnadenhutten. They were massacred some time during the settlement of Ohio, and I wonder if this German prayer book might be linked to that? The French were active in the area as traders, which might explain how it got into the general vicinity, and the Gnadenhutten Massacre might have a bearing on how it got hidden in the middle of a tree.

Daniel Boone was long-hunting across the river in Kentucky with a brother in law when they came under attack by Shawnees and got separated. his brother in law was never seen again alive, but 20 years later his skeleton was found in a hollow tree by a settler. he had gotten wounded, and taken refuge in the hollow tree to hide, and never came out of it.

My 7 greats back grandfather was Adam O'Brien, who lived a couple years in a hollow sycamore in central WV before he got the gumption to build a cabin. Hollow trees are just where stuff and folks went to hide from attack back in the day.

.

I never knew of that settlement. Even stranger is that Hugs (Coach Huggins) is from there. 

Preble County is on the western side of Ohio. Second county north from Cincinnati. Crazy thing about the Shawnee and all the mounds throughout their lands is that they were not mound builders nor descended from the Moundbuilders. They just took over the land when that tribe died out. So while one of the “capitols” of the Shawnee was Chillicothe, they only inherited Serpent Mound.

Have you read about the Glacial Kame Civilization? I think that is where the mound builders methods originated from. Burying their dead in artificial kames they built a.k.a. mounds.

Not likely as the Adena and later Hopewell were in this area at that time. The later mound builders was the Fort Ancient Culture which built Fort Ancient and Serpent Mound (maybe?). The Mississippian Mound Builders predate them all but supposedly none of these were descended from one another despite all of them liking to build mounds.

(06-27-2020, 01:51 AM)Ahabstar Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 01:09 AM)wessonoil Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 08:20 PM)Ahabstar Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 04:41 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

I dunno where West Alexandria is in OH, but there was a religious community founded by Germans and populated by Indians (mostly Lenape as I recall) at Gnadenhutten. They were massacred some time during the settlement of Ohio, and I wonder if this German prayer book might be linked to that? The French were active in the area as traders, which might explain how it got into the general vicinity, and the Gnadenhutten Massacre might have a bearing on how it got hidden in the middle of a tree.

Daniel Boone was long-hunting across the river in Kentucky with a brother in law when they came under attack by Shawnees and got separated. his brother in law was never seen again alive, but 20 years later his skeleton was found in a hollow tree by a settler. he had gotten wounded, and taken refuge in the hollow tree to hide, and never came out of it.

My 7 greats back grandfather was Adam O'Brien, who lived a couple years in a hollow sycamore in central WV before he got the gumption to build a cabin. Hollow trees are just where stuff and folks went to hide from attack back in the day.

.

I never knew of that settlement. Even stranger is that Hugs (Coach Huggins) is from there. 

Preble County is on the western side of Ohio. Second county north from Cincinnati. Crazy thing about the Shawnee and all the mounds throughout their lands is that they were not mound builders nor descended from the Moundbuilders. They just took over the land when that tribe died out. So while one of the “capitols” of the Shawnee was Chillicothe, they only inherited Serpent Mound.

Have you read about the Glacial Kame Civilization? I think that is where the mound builders methods originated from. Burying their dead in artificial kames they built a.k.a. mounds.

Not likely as the Adena and later Hopewell were in this area at that time. The later mound builders was the Fort Ancient Culture which built Fort Ancient and Serpent Mound (maybe?). The Mississippian Mound Builders predate them all but supposedly none of these were descended from one another despite all of them liking to build mounds.

From what I read the Kame people were there from 8000-1000 BCE (Archaic Period), the Adena were there from 800 BCE- 1CE (Early Woodland Period), and the Hopewell were there from 100 BCE -500 CE (Middle Woodland Period). That puts the Kame culture, at most, several thousand years before either of them and maybe a small overlap at the end if you assume that these dates are absolutely correct. The Fort Ancient People were even later than all three of these other cultures.  

If you have sources that state different I'd be very interested in reading them.

(06-27-2020, 02:38 AM)wessonoil Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 01:51 AM)Ahabstar Wrote:

(06-27-2020, 01:09 AM)wessonoil Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 08:20 PM)Ahabstar Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(06-22-2020, 04:41 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I like to read odd old newspaper articles. Must be the historian in me. But I found one not terribly far from where I live that happened just a 140 years ago. I wonder where the item is now...

Transcribed from the Inter Ocean, 1880-01-09 

A PRAYER-BOOK IN A TREE’S HEART 
A correspondent writing form Eaton, Ohio, says: “Recently Nelson Davis, of West Alexandria, this county, cut down an oak tree about six feet in circumference, in the center of which was a cavity about seven inches square, partly filled with some rotten kind of wood and a roll of cloth, which crumbled, when touched. Inside of all was a German Catholic prayer-book, bound in leather and much worn. The book was printed in 1729, and had a Latin introduction, while some of the blank leaves are filled with writing in French, part of which is unintelligible, but enough is easily read to show that the owner was a French soldier, tells what battalion, and mentions the name of one of the officers as De La Magne. It may be of interest to the members of the Historical Society. A growth of at least five inches over the hole where it had been slipped into the tree hermetically sealed and preserved the book. It is now in the hands of W. C. Barnhart, at his book store in this place, and is regarded by all as a great curiosity.” 
Contributed by Nancy Hannah.

I dunno where West Alexandria is in OH, but there was a religious community founded by Germans and populated by Indians (mostly Lenape as I recall) at Gnadenhutten. They were massacred some time during the settlement of Ohio, and I wonder if this German prayer book might be linked to that? The French were active in the area as traders, which might explain how it got into the general vicinity, and the Gnadenhutten Massacre might have a bearing on how it got hidden in the middle of a tree.

Daniel Boone was long-hunting across the river in Kentucky with a brother in law when they came under attack by Shawnees and got separated. his brother in law was never seen again alive, but 20 years later his skeleton was found in a hollow tree by a settler. he had gotten wounded, and taken refuge in the hollow tree to hide, and never came out of it.

My 7 greats back grandfather was Adam O'Brien, who lived a couple years in a hollow sycamore in central WV before he got the gumption to build a cabin. Hollow trees are just where stuff and folks went to hide from attack back in the day.

.

I never knew of that settlement. Even stranger is that Hugs (Coach Huggins) is from there. 

Preble County is on the western side of Ohio. Second county north from Cincinnati. Crazy thing about the Shawnee and all the mounds throughout their lands is that they were not mound builders nor descended from the Moundbuilders. They just took over the land when that tribe died out. So while one of the “capitols” of the Shawnee was Chillicothe, they only inherited Serpent Mound.

Have you read about the Glacial Kame Civilization? I think that is where the mound builders methods originated from. Burying their dead in artificial kames they built a.k.a. mounds.

Not likely as the Adena and later Hopewell were in this area at that time. The later mound builders was the Fort Ancient Culture which built Fort Ancient and Serpent Mound (maybe?). The Mississippian Mound Builders predate them all but supposedly none of these were descended from one another despite all of them liking to build mounds.

From what I read the Kame people were there from 8000-1000 BCE (Archaic Period), the Adena were there from 800 BCE- 1CE (Early Woodland Period), and the Hopewell were there from 100 BCE -500 CE (Middle Woodland Period). That puts the Kame culture, at most, several thousand years before either of them and maybe a small overlap at the end if you assume that these dates are absolutely correct. The Fort Ancient People were even later than all three of these other cultures.  

If you have sources that state different I'd be very interested in reading them.

I read very little on the Kame because they were further north. More towards present day Findlay and Lima from my understanding. But 10,000 years is the end of the Ice Age in Ohio. The amazing part is the Shawnee took all the land of the Fort Ancient people but never fought them as they were gone. And the Shawnee were an offshoot of the Algonquian that broke away from wars with the Iroquois. But they still skirmished with the Cherokee in Kentucky and held alliance with the Miami in Ohio. Of course both Shawnee and Miami moved around quite a bit as for their main areas.

(06-27-2020, 01:09 AM)wessonoil Wrote: Have you read about the Glacial Kame Civilization? I think that is where the mound builders methods originated from. Burying their dead in artificial kames they built a.k.a. mounds.

No, I've never heard of that one, but you can bet I'll be checking into it.

.

(06-27-2020, 01:51 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: Not likely as the Adena and later Hopewell were in this area at that time. The later mound builders was the Fort Ancient Culture which built Fort Ancient and Serpent Mound (maybe?). The Mississippian Mound Builders predate them all but supposedly none of these were descended from one another despite all of them liking to build mounds.

I've read that some folks think the Shawnee descended from the Fort Ancient culture, but I don't believe that. Fort Ancient was in southern Ohio, Eastern Kentucky, and western West Virginia, localized to that area with some bleed-out into adjacent areas like where I live. In contrast, the Shawnee were always wanderers, and spent a good deal of their formative time in the southeastern US. I don't think they arrived in the Ohio Valley until the late 1600's or early 1700's. Black Hoof claimed to have been born on the Gulf Coast of Florida before his band started wandering back north to land in Ohio.

The Fort Ancient culture spread out along the Tug and Levisa forks of Big Sandy, which is how some of their artifacts got into this area. I live in Virginia, on Levisa Fork of Big Sandy. It happens that some of the Fort Ancient territory coincides with later Shawnee turf, but I don't believe that represents descent - more likely it represents replacement.

I think it likely that the Cherokee descended from one of the Mound Builder cultures. Some of their mounds can be found to the south of here, and de Soto mentions Mound Builders in what is now Cherokee turf in 1541, recent enough to the historical Cherokee to make that link for me at least.

The Juan Pardo expedition into the Carolinas around 1567 also mentions town mounds, particularly one at Joara (de Soto's "Xuala") which has been found at Morgaton NC.

.

(06-27-2020, 05:06 AM)Ahabstar Wrote: I read very little on the Kame because they were further north. More towards present day Findlay and Lima from my understanding. But 10,000 years is the end of the Ice Age in Ohio. The amazing part is the Shawnee took all the land of the Fort Ancient people but never fought them as they were gone. And the Shawnee were an offshoot of the Algonquian that broke away from wars with the Iroquois. But they still skirmished with the Cherokee in Kentucky and held alliance with the Miami in Ohio. Of course both Shawnee and Miami moved around quite a bit as for their main areas.

The Shawnee do have a legend of having fought "Red Haired Giants" in Kentucky. They wiped that people entirely out, but say that the spirits of them would not allow the Shawnee to settle in Kentucky - that the spirits would allow them to hunt there when the children were hungry, but would not allow settlement.

There was one Shawnee settlement that I know of in Eastern Kentucky near Blue Licks called Eskipakithikki, but it only lasted about 20 years before they left Kentucky altogether, ran out by the spirits of the land. That's why the Shawnee only claimed KY as hunting grounds. The Cherokee also "claimed" Kentucky as hunting grounds, but sold their interest to Richard Henderson... then told him that he'd bought it, now it was up to him to defend it... that should have been a red flag right there that it wasn't an undisputed claim I reckon.

As near as I can determine, the boundary between Shawnee and Cherokee lands was the Clinch River in Southwest VA, despite what the Bureau of Enthnology would have you believe. The last battle between the two was fought around 1769 at War Ridge in Tazewell County, VA, on the Paint Lick fork of Clinch. Paint Lick Mountain still has the paintings and petroglyphs from innumerable religious visits to it. Those paintings are how Paint Lick got it's name. It was sacred land on the border between the Shawnee and Cherokee.

.

It is so refreshing to see people discussing Native American tribes fighting and going to war only because of the many, many people in academia that hold tight onto the Noble Savage idea.
It drives me insane that anyone would assume that any human tribe in the history of the world could exist without conflict. 
 
I had to quit doing research (locating and cataloging forgotten earthworks using lidar) with an old friend of mine because he was fully indoctrinated. He would insist that natives never fought or maintained defensive locations i.e. forts because there was no evidence of battles (which is total BS). When presented with data to the contrary he would say that it was old or out of date, but could never give me data. It was full blown "white guilt". He would also come up with theories before doing any research. He came to me talking about a mound in the Eaton cemetery that was so ludicrous. We only buried people there to defile the native burial ground and we also destroyed a circular enclosure in the process. Having already researched this mound I showed him the obelisk on top of it that clearly stated the mound was built, by settlers, for soldiers that were killed in a battle with natives and buried far away. The bodies were recovered and moved to the current location. All this info is available on the net or you can see it by visiting and reading at the site.  He is a research librarian! 

We quit talking after he told me that my ancestors were at fault since they have lived in this area since the late 1700's, so therefore I was as at fault. I told him to leave before he ended up in the E.R. 


Anyway thanks for the interesting info!

(06-29-2020, 04:31 PM)wessonoil Wrote: It is so refreshing to see people discussing Native American tribes fighting and going to war only because of the many, many people in academia that hold tight onto the Noble Savage idea.
It drives me insane that anyone would assume that any human tribe in the history of the world could exist without conflict. 
 
I had to quit doing research (locating and cataloging forgotten earthworks using lidar) with an old friend of mine because he was fully indoctrinated. He would insist that natives never fought or maintained defensive locations i.e. forts because there was no evidence of battles (which is total BS). When presented with data to the contrary he would say that it was old or out of date, but could never give me data. It was full blown "white guilt". He would also come up with theories before doing any research. He came to me talking about a mound in the Eaton cemetery that was so ludicrous. We only buried people there to defile the native burial ground and we also destroyed a circular enclosure in the process. Having already researched this mound I showed him the obelisk on top of it that clearly stated the mound was built, by settlers, for soldiers that were killed in a battle with natives and buried far away. The bodies were recovered and moved to the current location. All this info is available on the net or you can see it by visiting and reading at the site.  He is a research librarian! 

We quit talking after he told me that my ancestors were at fault since they have lived in this area since the late 1700's, so therefore I was as at fault. I told him to leave before he ended up in the E.R. 


Anyway thanks for the interesting info!

The Noble Savage, completely in tune with nature...that is such a great fantasy. I mean Lord of the Rings was pretty good, but the Noble Savage.

(06-29-2020, 04:31 PM)wessonoil Wrote: It is so refreshing to see people discussing Native American tribes fighting and going to war only because of the many, many people in academia that hold tight onto the Noble Savage idea.
It drives me insane that anyone would assume that any human tribe in the history of the world could exist without conflict. 
 
I had to quit doing research (locating and cataloging forgotten earthworks using lidar) with an old friend of mine because he was fully indoctrinated. He would insist that natives never fought or maintained defensive locations i.e. forts because there was no evidence of battles (which is total BS). When presented with data to the contrary he would say that it was old or out of date, but could never give me data. It was full blown "white guilt". He would also come up with theories before doing any research. He came to me talking about a mound in the Eaton cemetery that was so ludicrous. We only buried people there to defile the native burial ground and we also destroyed a circular enclosure in the process. Having already researched this mound I showed him the obelisk on top of it that clearly stated the mound was built, by settlers, for soldiers that were killed in a battle with natives and buried far away. The bodies were recovered and moved to the current location. All this info is available on the net or you can see it by visiting and reading at the site.  He is a research librarian! 

We quit talking after he told me that my ancestors were at fault since they have lived in this area since the late 1700's, so therefore I was as at fault. I told him to leave before he ended up in the E.R. 


Anyway thanks for the interesting info!

Odd that he would maintain a notion that the tribe never fought AND that there was a "circular enclosure" built by a tribe. What did he thing a "circular ENCLOSURE" would be for?

When the first Europeans arrived in North America, all of the Algonquian tribes on the east coast to hundreds of miles inland had circular palisaded villages because... intertribal war.


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(06-29-2020, 06:07 PM)Ahabstar Wrote: The Noble Savage, completely in tune with nature...that is such a great fantasy. I mean Lord of the Rings was pretty good, but the Noble Savage.

One can be utterly "in tune with nature", and still be completely savage without a trace of nobility. The guy was laboring under a thoroughly outdated and discredited theory from 200 years ago.

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