Snack Pack Pudding

[FlyingClayDisk]

What an odd title for a thread, right?  (probably what you may be thinking right now).  Odd indeed, because as I intend to illustrate, it is the venerable Snack Pack Pudding which speaks volumes about our society, and health and many other things.  In fact, as you will see, Snack Pack Pudding may just be the 'Poster Child' for a whole lot of things wrong today.  Trust me, this is about much more than just pudding!

For those unfamiliar, Snack Pack Pudding, started out as a small tin of pudding (chocolate, vanilla (my favorite) and some other flavors) back in the late 60's and early '70's.  Sometimes when Mom was feeling particularly generous, she'd put a Snack Pack Pudding in my sack lunch as a kid.  It was very rare, but it did happen.  More often though, I would trade something at school to get a Snack Pack Pudding.  They were good...I thought.

The other day, on a lark, my wife bought some "Snack Pack Puddings".  (We both like pudding).  My first reaction was...'this isn't the Snack Pack Pudding I remember as a kid!!'.  And this revelation sparked a bunch of research on my part, the results of which are actually pretty surprising.

First of all, the 'new' Snack Pack Puddings are TINY!  So, I wondered just how "tiny" are they...in comparison to what I remember as a kid?  Well, it turns out, the original Snack Pack Puddings were sold in 5 oz. cans.  The new Snack Pack Puddings are sold in 3.25 oz containers.  So, the original puddings were 35% larger than those today.  My first reaction was to assume this was all just due to corporate profiteering.  Well, not so fast!

Next, I started thinking about (of all people) Michelle Obama, and her crusade about all the fat little "obese" kids running around America and how it was because they were eating so unhealthy.  Granted, there's probably healthier things to eat other than pudding, but still.  Okay, so manufacturers are being 'shamed' into not selling such large portions (and this was a push in the media if you recall).  Plus, they could make more profit, right?  So it was a win-win.

I don't recall what Snack Pack Puddings cost back in 1968 when I first got one in my lunch, but I'd be wiling to put money down betting on the fact that, even though 35% smaller, a Snack Pack Pudding probably costs 200% more than it did in 1968.

It wasn't long before I found countless other examples of these same sorts of things.  I used food items I remember as a kid, and compared them to food items for kids today.  In summary, what I found was a calorie count today which is far less than the calorie count we had as kids.  Far less!

So where are all these "fat" kids coming from????  Sure, lack of physical activity comes quickly to mind, and I'd be foolish not to point this out right up front, but does this explain it all??  I wasn't sure...so I looked deeper. 

Recently, I've lost a lot of weight...a LOT of weight!  In fact, I've lost 50lbs.  I am a very large boned, 6 foot 4" (size 15EEE boot) guy.  At the top of my life weight-trajectory I weighed 287lbs.  That was too much, and I needed to lose weight, no argument...but how much weight?  Herein lies a very interesting fact I found in all my research.

I've always been a pretty healthy and athletic person (no stranger to the gym and weightlifting).  Consequently, I've always kept tabs on what are appropriate weights for me based on bone density, height, age, etc.  Historically, those numbers recommended by the "experts" have always been in the 230-240lb range.  So I decided to check again now, now that I've lost a bunch of weight.

Well, well...guess what all the "experts" say I should weigh now???  A laughable 170lbs!!  If I weighed 170lbs. not only would I be absolute skin and bones, but I'd look like a zombie!  There's no way, just NO WAY, I could ever get down to 170.  I weighed 170 when I was in Jr. High School!  In fact, if I weighed 170, I'd be downright sick (i.e. sunken eyes, and the whole bit).  But all of this wasn't the most surprising part, believe it or not.  Even more surprising was, I just weighed this morning...231...yay!  I looked up 231, and it says I'm "Obese".  You can see my ribs for cripes sakes!  I'm obese???  I can push out my belly and still see my belt buckle.  I'm obese?

Conclusion - Kids today might be little "fatties" running around, but the truth of the matter is...they've lowered the bar, considerably, about what is considered 'obese' to a point which doesn't even seem healthy to me.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

I would start by looking at the quality and the added chemical ingredients added to the products over the years. I am not just talking about high fructose corn syrup. The number of preservative has greatly increased because foods take longer to transport and they sit in the warehouses, and on the shelves longer.

I have noticed a great decline in the size and the quality of many products since COVID. Not just my imagination, because I had to change the dog food brand that I feed my dogs, because it started making them have diarrhea. One dog with diarrhea can be a problem, Four dogs with diarrhea is a nightmare. My cats just plain up will not eat some of the food that they once favored.

So yeah. Something has been going on with the food for a while, but I think it has gotten a lot worse.

By the way, did you know anyone that was gluten intolerant back when you growing up? Just asking.


https://naturallysavvy.com/eat/food-then...s-changed/
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/hig...ular-sugar

[Ninurta]

I would start by looking at the quality and the added chemical ingredients added to the products over the years. I am not just talking about high fructose corn syrup. The number of preservative has greatly increased because foods take longer to transport and they sit in the warehouses, and on the shelves longer.

I have noticed a great decline in the size and the quality of many products since COVID. Not just my imagination, because I had to change the dog food brand that I feed my dogs, because it started making them have diarrhea. One dog with diarrhea can be a problem, Four dogs with diarrhea is a nightmare. My cats just plain up will not eat some of the food that they once favored.

So yeah. Something has been going on with the food for a while, but I think it has gotten a lot worse.

By the way, did you know anyone that was gluten intolerant back when you growing up? Just asking.


https://naturallysavvy.com/eat/food-then...s-changed/
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/hig...ular-sugar

Nope, I never knew anyone that was gluten intolerant back then. Now my daughter in law has Celiac's Disease, and is gluten intolerant. Because of that, I have taken to noticing all the "gluten free" items at the grocery store, and there are so many that I can only conclude it is an epidemic of epic proportions - might even call for another series of power-grabbing lockdowns, it's so out of control!

I had to step back and take a second glance when I started seeing "gluten free" meat.

.

[ChiefD]

Some good food for thought, pun intended!   I think when we were younger, kids, the food wasn't as processed as it is now. Not to mention the fact that kids are more likely spending hours a day sitting around playing video games. When we were kids, we were always outside, like all the time. During summer vacation, we'd be out of the house right after my mom went to work, and we'd stay out until it got dark. We all had bikes, skateboards, and would go out to the local pool and swim all afternoon. My sisters and I were all in great shape, no fatties any of us. 

With so much over processed food, nasty additives that cause allergies and that, and "energy" drinks loaded with sugar, it's no wonder there is an epidemic of obese children. Type II diabetes used to be considered adult onset diabetes. That has changed because now so many children are getting Type II diabetes. It's truly sad to see. We didn't have this kind of thing going on when I grew up in the 60's and 70's. 

We are a society used to instant gratification. We want it all, and we want it yesterday. There is so much convenience now. I can order anything from a steak dinner to booze and have it delivered in less than an hour. I don't have to get up, drive, pick it up, drive back home. Even that seems to be too much for people now. I don't have to get up from my fat ass and do anything. I think there's a little too much convenience. 

Lockdown has only made the problem worse. People felt like they couldn't go out and do anything. So everyone just sat around all day, no physical activity, getting all that food delivered, sitting in front of a computer all day working. I gained 20 lbs, and am working that off. I try to walk 3-4 miles every day. It's good for the body, and good for my mental health. I'm less likely to veg out eating all kinds of crap when I'm more physically active. I try to snack on things like pickles or fresh cheese. Minimally processed stuff. Now I just have to work on the fruits and veggies. 

I've been buying things like Indian chickpea masala with potatoes that I like to mix with jasmine rice. It's vegetarian, and delicious. 

So I think people are just exhausted after years of lockdown, kids would rather sit around playing videogames for hours, and the stuff most of are eating is overprocessed and full of sugar.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

How far do we have to go? How much do we have to lose? How much, before we wake up and realize that surviving, is not living.

How long before we realize that wants and desires are manifestations of our imagination, and they are as fragile as an icicle on a warm morning.

This looks far fetched, and pure comedic science fiction, but it is likely that it probably comes pretty close to the truth.

[FlyingClayDisk]

I would start by looking at the quality and the added chemical ingredients added to the products over the years. I am not just talking about high fructose corn syrup. The number of preservative has greatly increased because foods take longer to transport and they sit in the warehouses, and on the shelves longer.

I have noticed a great decline in the size and the quality of many products since COVID. Not just my imagination, because I had to change the dog food brand that I feed my dogs, because it started making them have diarrhea. One dog with diarrhea can be a problem, Four dogs with diarrhea is a nightmare. My cats just plain up will not eat some of the food that they once favored.

So yeah. Something has been going on with the food for a while, but I think it has gotten a lot worse.

By the way, did you know anyone that was gluten intolerant back when you growing up? Just asking.


https://naturallysavvy.com/eat/food-then...s-changed/
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/hig...ular-sugar

Nope!  As a matter of fact, I don't even think "gluten" was a word back when I was a kid (was it?).  If it was a word, it was only known in cooking and baking circles; the rest of society had no idea what gluten was.

And, I completely agree with you on the added crap in foods today.  I didn't want to write a novel (above), but I actually did do quite a bit of research on a variety of foods and ingredients the other day.  You are spot on with the notion ingredient lists have increased dramatically, and the items added are mostly items only a Chemist would recognize.  Food at the grocery store should not require a degree in Chemistry to create, and the simple fact that there are so many chemicals in things should be a red flag.  I mean, I guess it is a red flag to many people, but there doesn't seem to be much being done about it.

Here's something I find odd also...  As many here know, I spent several years working in SE Asia.  As one would expect, there is a pretty sizeable Chinese food import industry all over SE Asia.  What's weird though is, I didn't see all these long lists of chemicals in every food over there.  Intuition would suggest you'd see even more, but this wasn't the case.  My first reaction was the labeling requirements were less restrictive, but I'm not sure that explains it fully.  One big difference I noticed there was almost all foods spoiled much faster there.  Granted, the environment was perfect for spoilage (heat and high humidity), but even so that didn't explain it all.  My conclusion was there are far less preservatives in many of the foods there.  Now, don't get me wrong here...there is also some complete poisonous and toxic garbage passed off as "food" in that part of the world too, so I'm acutely aware of this, but that's not what I'm talking about.

It was because of the worry about toxic crap in foods that I actually paid attention to the ingredients in foods more carefully while there.  It was from that experience that I just began to pay more attention in general to the things I was eating and what was in them, regardless of where I was.

I draw some distinctions between bacteria contaminated foods versus foods loaded up with chemicals for whatever reason.  And, one thing I can say for sure is...virtually across the board, the foods that I ate while in SE Asia were almost always fresher than foods we are used to eating in this country.  Now, I'm sure a lot of this has to do with location, what foods we're talking about and the distribution chains associated, but the point here is food was just fresher in general.  I attribute much of this to the faster spoilage (which is likely due in part to less preservatives).

[FlyingClayDisk]

...

I had to step back and take a second glance when I started seeing "gluten free" meat.

.

No shit!!  Yeah, when you see something like that, you really have to ask yourself...'just what the hell are they putting in some of these products!'  I mean, seriously, how could there ever be gluten in a meat product to begin with????  Someone had to have put it there, and the reason was almost certainly nefarious (i.e. to make it taste and/or appear differently than it would otherwise, etc.).

We already know (or, at least most people 'should' know) processors will often add Carbon Monoxide (not Dioxide) to meat to keep it looking fresh longer, and almost all retailers will treat meats with a solution of Sodium Nitrate with extra Oxygen (in the form of Chlorine) to keep it looking red under the fluorescent lights of a store environment.  (And NO, we don't treat ANY of our meats with ANY of those products on this ranch!)

Plus, when you consider the whole absolute hilarity of the biggest ruse of all, "100% Angus Beef" (oh the stories I could tell!!), it should be no wonder that the quality of the beef that most people eat today, compared to even as recently as the late 80's and early 90's is stunning!!  Can anyone say..."Broken Down old Dairy Cattle"???  Seriously!  This is what you're getting in the store these days, and people are just oblivious to it.  If people knew what they were really eating their head's would explode.  I'm 100% serious when I say this too; I honestly don't think most people in society today have the psychological fabric capable of hearing the "truth", and not losing their shit as a result of it! 

I hear it all the time, people saying how the beef from the grocery stores these days doesn't have any flavor anymore.  I'll say this...they're not imagining things!  They're right!  They've had to treat that meat with all sorts of stuff just to make it even remotely edible!

This, all coming from a guy who's actually IN the cattle business!

[ChiefD]

...

I had to step back and take a second glance when I started seeing "gluten free" meat.

.

No shit!!  Yeah, when you see something like that, you really have to ask yourself...'just what the hell are they putting in some of these products!'  I mean, seriously, how could there ever be gluten in a meat product to begin with????  Someone had to have put it there, and the reason was almost certainly nefarious (i.e. to make it taste and/or appear differently than it would otherwise, etc.).

We already know (or, at least most people 'should' know) processors will often add Carbon Monoxide (not Dioxide) to meat to keep it looking fresh longer, and almost all retailers will treat meats with a solution of Sodium Nitrate with extra Oxygen (in the form of Chlorine) to keep it looking red under the fluorescent lights of a store environment.  (And NO, we don't treat ANY of our meats with ANY of those products on this ranch!)

Plus, when you consider the whole absolute hilarity of the biggest ruse of all, "100% Angus Beef" (oh the stories I could tell!!), it should be no wonder that the quality of the beef that most people eat today, compared to even as recently as the late 80's and early 90's is stunning!!  Can anyone say..."Broken Down old Dairy Cattle"???  Seriously!  This is what you're getting in the store these days, and people are just oblivious to it.  If people knew what they were really eating their head's would explode.  I'm 100% serious when I say this too; I honestly don't think most people in society today have the psychological fabric capable of hearing the "truth", and not losing their shit as a result of it! 

I hear it all the time, people saying how the beef from the grocery stores these days doesn't have any flavor anymore.  I'll say this...they're not imagining things!  They're right!  They've had to treat that meat with all sorts of stuff just to make it even remotely edible!

This, all coming from a guy who's actually IN the cattle business!

Yeah, I'm pretty leery of getting red meat at the store. What do you think of organic grass fed beef? I almost always get this type when I get any red meat. It doesn't have preservatives, is certified organic, and is grass fed beef. It's hella expensive, so I only get it 2-3 times a year, but I think it tastes way better than the ground chuck I used to get. I'm very much afraid to buy meat at all anymore, because of things I've heard like what you said earlier.

[FlyingClayDisk]

How far do we have to go? How much do we have to lose? How much, before we wake up and realize that surviving, is not living.

How long before we realize that wants and desires are manifestations of our imagination, and they are as fragile as an icicle on a warm morning.

This looks far fetched, and pure comedic science fiction, but it is likely that it probably comes pretty close to the truth.

Heh...well, that's kind of the opposite direction of where I was headed in the OP, but you do make an excellent point. 

I guess I mentally equate this discussion to a mathematical analogy of two determinants moving at equal rates in opposite directions from a median point.  The two determinants are "obesity" on the one hand, and "unrealistic health goals" on the other.

In a way, it's kind of like Butter.  Not that long ago Butter was going to kill us all, and partially hydrogenated chemically engineered trans fats (aka "Margarines") were going to save mankind.  And just look at where we are now!!! 

I don't disagree that many of today's youth are lethargic fat little slobs glued to a video game on their TV, but I have to contrast that with the notion of someone telling me that in order to be "healthy" I should weigh 160-170lbs.  I'd have to turn sideways in the shower to even get wet at that weight!

[FlyingClayDisk]

Yeah, I'm pretty leery of getting red meat at the store. What do you think of organic grass fed beef? I almost always get this type when I get any red meat. It doesn't have preservatives, is certified organic, and is grass fed beef. It's hella expensive, so I only get it 2-3 times a year, but I think it tastes way better than the ground chuck I used to get. I'm very much afraid to buy meat at all anymore, because of things I've heard like what you said earlier.

Two things (well, maybe three):

1. First, in direct response to your question...  Depends on where it comes from.  Sorry, that's a really crappy non-answer, but unfortunately you have to realize once a trendy 'buzz-word' turns into something people can make a profit with then people will start figuring out ways to bend every imaginable rule to the point where the original 'buzz-word' doesn't mean anything anymore.  In any case, truly "grass fed" beef (like what we raise) is better.  However, (and I hate to say this)...if I take 'grass' and grind it up into pulp, add water and then press it into millions of cubes, and then jam 300 steers into a 100x100 foot pen...is my beef still "grass fed"???  Sadly, the answer is, yes.  Now, we don't do that, and to differentiate it we'd have to add other words like "open range" and "terrestrial, not processed, grass"...which is a shame, but it illustrates the point of how people will abuse the trust of consumers to the point of practically poisoning people to make a buck!

2. The word "Organic" is probably one of the most over-used, and most badly abused, bastardized, words in the history of mankind.  Probably 95% (my estimate) of people have absolutely no idea what "Organic" even means when it comes to food.  For example, most people think 'organic' crop products don't use pesticides.  Actually, the opposite is true; they use more pesticides than virtually every other kind of agricultural product.  Why?  Because there are so many other restrictions their crops are 100% vulnerable to pests...and I'm not even talking about GMO products here (yet).  Worse, to get further into this discussion in detail we quickly devolve into graduate and doctoral levels of Chemistry to debate the pros and cons.  Furthermore, much of these fields have had little to no long-term studies performed to determine the 'truth' regardless of what anyone claims...on either side.  As it relates to beef specifically, 'antibiotics' are the prime target of "organic" production.  Here again, few understand what antibiotics are and how they work.  Yes, some antibiotics are truly harmful.  However, this cannot be said for all antibiotics.  Organic production of beef prohibits 'all' antibiotic use.  Net result?  The organic products many buy have a much higher probability of bacteria which does not exist in other kinds of production.  Bottom line...just because it says "Organic" doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy-er.  But, in the same breath, not saying "organic", today, removes what little rules there are otherwise, so it's kind of a double edged sword.

3.  We probably qualify (actually, we DO qualify) as an organic producer, but I would never advocate going and getting the certification!!  Never!  Why?  Whatever marginal profit margin that word "Organic" might generate will be eaten up 10x over with costs in other areas, some even completely unrelated to beef production!  This is a classic example of...'watch out what ya' wish for!'  And if that wasn't bad enough...wanna' know how to make an enemy of every neighbor for about 5 miles in every direction?  Stick an FDA Certified "Organic" sign at the entrance to your ranch!  Why the hostility from others?  Because now not only do I control what I do on my production facility (ranch or whatever), but I now also have legal influence over my neighbors and can sue them if they do something on their land which causes me to lose my certification.  Like what, you may ask?  Oh, something simple like using spraying a fertilizer on their corn which isn't FDA approved organic.  Here's a guy who was minding his own business, and suddenly I'm now all up in the middle of his business, on his land, land that I have absolutely zero claim to.  Sadly, it's an almost Biblically complex subject, food production, and it really shouldn't be!

Here's the bottom line; it can be summed up in an infamous phrase..."We're the Government, and we're here to help!"

[ChiefD]

@"FlyingClayDisk" 

Thanks for the information. I'm glad you brought those things up. Now that I think of it, the package didn't indicate that the beef was open range. There are so damn many things to try and keep track of. You're spot on regarding the labels too. As an example, I always try to buy organic free range chicken and eggs. But I'm sure that these conglomerates can find ways to still keep a bunch of chickens stuffed nuts to butts and still be able to call it free range. Of course, these products are so damn expensive, and with inflation the way it is, I won't be able to afford these products anyway. I may as well go back to just getting the regular stuff and shrugging it off. 

Nobody can trust labels of any kind. It sucks, but oh well.

[FlyingClayDisk]

This is probably a good opportunity to talk about "antibiotics" in beef production.

When most people hear the words 'antibiotics' and/or 'growth hormones' their minds immediately jump to animals that are being subjected to endless applications of these substances (and in some cases they may be right).  However, this is not usually the case.  I will cite a classic example...

Most people have heard of 'feed lots'.  The purpose of a feed lot is to fatten up cattle before processing (i.e. slaughter).  This is exactly what it sounds like...putting actual "fat" on the animal.  It's not muscle we're talking about here, but fat. 

Now, I think most understand this, but in the event some are unclear I'll elaborate briefly.  Much of the flavor that people enjoy about beef (and other meat products) comes from the fat, not from the meat itself.  Meat with little to no fat is nearly flavorless, regardless of what it is.  NOTE - "Gamey" is a different issue, and involves different hormones and physiology, so I'm not talking about 'gamey' here. 

The big difference between grass fed and traditional feed lot beef is the fat content.  This is the "% Lean" labeling you see.  Several weeks before animals go for processing they are often sent to feed lots to add 'fat' to the carcass.  Yes, this increases their weight too (more on this in a moment), but that's not the reason for doing it.  The reason is to increase the fat percentage, and thus enhance the flavor.

To fatten up cattle, the fastest way to do this is to feed them corn.  Corn is high in carbohydrates and adds fat quickly.  BUT, there's a huge problem with this process.  The problem?  Cattle can't effectively digest corn.  Translated, corn makes cattle sick.  Feeding straight corn gives cattle what amounts to dysentery.  Then, rather than get fat, they lose weight...and fat...and waste away.  Fed nothing but corn, cattle will eventually die from this, but they're not at a feed lot long enough for this to happen.  However, they are there long enough for the effects of this to start.

So, what's the solution?  Much like a human with dysentery, you give the cattle antibiotics to clear up the dysentery.  Now the cattle are happy, the producer is happy and the customer is happy.  This has been going on for 200 years (probably longer) with no ill effects. 

THESE are the "evil" antibiotics most people hear about, and where this all comes from is the animal rights people like PETA and others who will plant poison seeds everywhere possible to end cattle production...period.  They don't want you eating beef with no antibiotics...no, what they want is for you to not eat meat at all!  These antibiotics we're talking about here are not harmful to people, and they're not in the category of antibiotics everyone is worried about building up resistance to.

Now you know "the REST of the story" (as the legendary announcer Paul Harvey would say).

P.S. As I've noted previously, our beef is grass fed, so we don't feed-out on corn.  However, we do feed out on grain and corn in the last week or so before processing for our own personal animals which go in our freezers.  This is just enough time to put fat on them without having to get into antibiotics.  Not because we're worried about the antibiotics, but because they're expensive and they're a hassle to administer.  BTW...we don't have any axe to grind with the people who feed-out cattle with corn; it's just another way of doing things.  But I certainly don't trust all the BS propaganda crap I see, and I know different.

So, there you have it.

[FlyingClayDisk]

One of these days when I've got a few minutes, I should tell you all the story behind "Angus Beef".

That story is the Tale to beat all Tales!!  If people only knew they were paying more for a product that, by law, was forced to actually be labeled as an inferior product, they'd probably jump off a bridge for being so stupid!



ETA - I used to think it was going to take me a while to unload this Oceanfront property in Iowa that I've been sitting on, but now I've got people lined up and begging me to take their money for it.

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

Mmmmmm..... Snack Pack!!!!

Had to be careful not to cut your finger pulling the top off.

Thick sliced bologna from the butcher shop with mayo on Roman Meal bread, chips, a banana, Coca Cola in a tin can wrapped tight in aluminum foil and a can of chocolate Snack Pack pudding all packed up in my Dudley Do-Right lunch kit.

The absolute best lunch on the planet!

Snack Pack isn't the same consistency as it was back then. It was thicker and more chocolatey tasting. The stuff they make now isn't near as tasty. Probably not near as healthy either- if it ever was.

Food nowadays sucks. Chemicals, preservatives, processing and genetic modification sapped all the flavor out of everything you don't grow yourself. 

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

@"FlyingClayDisk" 

Thanks for the information. I'm glad you brought those things up. Now that I think of it, the package didn't indicate that the beef was open range. There are so damn many things to try and keep track of. You're spot on regarding the labels too. As an example, I always try to buy organic free range chicken and eggs. But I'm sure that these conglomerates can find ways to still keep a bunch of chickens stuffed nuts to butts and still be able to call it free range. Of course, these products are so damn expensive, and with inflation the way it is, I won't be able to afford these products anyway. I may as well go back to just getting the regular stuff and shrugging it off. 

Nobody can trust labels of any kind. It sucks, but oh well.

No one is as anal about their chickens as my brother is about his. Now he has ducks and he treats them like children.

No GMO products. No table scraps. He used to let them completely free range, but the onslaught of coyote we got after they cleared nearly 4,000 acres less than 5 miles from us, he now has to house them at night and they are in a huge run during the day. 

He has way more eggs than he can keep so he gives his eggs away, and his eggs are way better than the ones they are charging $8.00 a dozen for in the stores, and he has people standing in line to get them.

It sounds crazy that he would "give" away a product he pays so much money for, and people actually want, but he is rewarded in many other ways.

People out here will share what they have. Even if it is just time and knowledge. One of the people that gets his eggs regularly, has been keeping bees for over 50 years. He comes over regularly and helps my Brother with his bees. Many others share their produce and whatever they have.

Being in an unicorporated rural area, we have to depend on ourselves and each other. We still live on dirt roads, those roads belong to us, right up to the middle, so we have to maintain them. Four or five of the neighbors take turns grading the roads, to make them easier and smoother to maneuver. After storms, if we have fallen trees, on the roads, the neighbors get together, with their chain saws and they take care of it.

We have no agency to call. If it is a community issue, we take care of it. We don't have HOAs, we have call or visit your neighbors when you have to troubleshoot. Sort of old fashioned but it works.

[ABNARTY]

Ah yes... health discussion. As I sit here and sip my RC Cola...

- Food quantities have shrunk. Many videos on YT demonstrating that fact. The prices have not shrunk unfortunately. Is it Michelle "I need organic arugula ASAP!" Obama's fault? I have no idea. Could be. Look what Lady Bird did to junk yards.

- Fat kids. Lack of activity does not help. I would bet all the chemicals they add to food is just as much to blame. 

- Chemicals in agriculture. Awesome subject! Many herbicides and insecticides do not disappear. They end up all over the place. Cattle in a feedlot get feed from somewhere that uses a chemical on their hay/ alfalfa/ etc. Even though those cattle never touched foot where the chemical was used, they are now eating it. You eat the cattle. Guess where some of those chemicals are now? 

***Bonus rambling that has little to do with the OP.
Where I live, the soil is not great for growing things in a garden. It's all clay. So I keep a manure pile (horse/cattle/goat/etc.) and mix it with sand. After a year or so in the elements, it makes a better soil than the clay and that's what goes in the garden. Every once in a while, I notice a portion of the garden does not thrive. In fact, plants there die. At first I chalked it up to bad stock/seeds or poor weather. But the more I experimented, I concluded it had to be the soil. After all the work I put into it, how could it possibly be bad soil? Then it dawned on me. I get the manure (and sand for that matter) from different sources. I have no idea what those critters are getting supplemented with or where it comes from. I just saw fresh poop and figured I was G2G. Nope. I guess I would need to have my own stock and know what they get fed to be sure.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

Ah yes... health discussion. As I sit here and sip my RC Cola...

- Food quantities have shrunk. Many videos on YT demonstrating that fact. The prices have not shrunk unfortunately. Is it Michelle "I need organic arugula ASAP!" Obama's fault? I have no idea. Could be. Look what Lady Bird did to junk yards.

- Fat kids. Lack of activity does not help. I would bet all the chemicals they add to food is just as much to blame. 

- Chemicals in agriculture. Awesome subject! Many herbicides and insecticides do not disappear. They end up all over the place. Cattle in a feedlot get feed from somewhere that uses a chemical on their hay/ alfalfa/ etc. Even though those cattle never touched foot where the chemical was used, they are now eating it. You eat the cattle. Guess where some of those chemicals are now? 

***Bonus rambling that has little to do with the OP.
Where I live, the soil is not great for growing things in a garden. It's all clay. So I keep a manure pile (horse/cattle/goat/etc.) and mix it with sand. After a year or so in the elements, it makes a better soil than the clay and that's what goes in the garden. Every once in a while, I notice a portion of the garden does not thrive. In fact, plants there die. At first I chalked it up to bad stock/seeds or poor weather. But the more I experimented, I concluded it had to be the soil. After all the work I put into it, how could it possibly be bad soil? Then it dawned on me. I get the manure (and sand for that matter) from different sources. I have no idea what those critters are getting supplemented with or where it comes from. I just saw fresh poop and figured I was G2G. Nope. I guess I would need to have my own stock and know what they get fed to be sure.

You are exactly correct. That is why we stopped using it. We have well water, just can't take the risk. Between the medications and the herbicides, it can be risky. And I have heard many reports of it doing more damage than good.

After saying all this, I have also been told, if you have the space and the time to compost it, for several months, some of the toxins will burn off. Can't swear by it. I have the space, but I don't have the time.