The Shit is Hitting The Fan

[guohua]

Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

Source
OMG!
I for one never thought this would happen.
I have mixed feelings, I believe it is the woman's right to choose but I don't agree with School Counselors and Social Workers pushing Abortion or having an abortion with out the Man or Parents being involved and informed.

JMHO

[AmericanBuffalo]

Summer is right around the corner too. I am glad I got far away from the more urban areas. As I can see them becoming a mess again like in 2020.

[guohua]

It is Trump's Fault

Less than two hours later, Schumer blasted former President Donald Trump and the Republican lawmakers who aided him in getting three conservative justices onto the Supreme Court to form its decisive right-wing majority.

Yes, they are Blaming Trump, Orange Man is Bad!
This is Ridiculous.

[AmericanBuffalo]

Anyone in government accountable for what they do? Or is it always the last guy to sit in the oval office? Congress creates the problems the President just gives their stamp of approval. I think US adults need to go back and learn civics again. Congress is the animal which needs to be culled!

[hounddoghowlie]

Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

Source
OMG!
I for one never thought this would happen.
I have mixed feelings, I believe it is the woman's right to choose but I don't agree with School Counselors and Social Workers pushing Abortion or having an abortion with out the Man or Parents being involved and informed.

JMHO

I'm like you mixed feelings, especially on the man part.

[TDDA]

I am curious. About how the current US government will be allowed to react to the upcoming riots, CHADS and peaceful fires. How will the media report and react? 

It will be a hypocrisy-fest. Sadly, because people will loose property again, be hurt or killed :-/

The topic can not be ruled by law, as it is about empathy, love and life in general. The father should be informed and involved but the decision is by the mother alone. Medical reasons that endanger the mother or child should be considered, as far as known.

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

This creates a steep, slippery slope.

Whether or not you agreed with Roe v. Wade it kept the govt out of our personal bodily decisions. Now that has been taken away. States will be able to decide what you can and cannot do to your own body- which will include covid shots and boosters.

When states and employers mandated covid shots the decisions were contested in courts and overturned because of the bodily autonomy afforded us by the Roe v. Wade decision. 

This changes everything!

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

Anyone in government accountable for what they do? Or is it always the last guy to sit in the oval office? Congress creates the problems the President just gives their stamp of approval. I think US adults need to go back and learn civics again. Congress is the animal which needs to be culled!

With people being made homeless on a massive scale. With fears of food insecurity, and people not being able to afford a life of basics, they want people taking to the streets fighting each other, out of sheer frustration with no hope of anything improving.

It seems fire and destruction is the game plan. With massive areas removed by insane weather outbreaks and wild fires that continue to eradicate whole towns, for frustrated, angry, hopeless people to be led to destroy what is left, seems like a plan that will work.

They must think that we are a bunch of gullible, easily led, idiots, or we are indeed a bunch of easily led, gullible, idiots.

[Tarzan the apeman.]

All this means is if it goes through the states will have the last word on what happens with abortions, not uncle Sam.

[Chiefsmom]

Should not be anyone's business in any form of government, what anyone does with their own body.
NOBODY'S but theirs.

But, like everywhere else today, our rights continue to slip through our fingers.
Just like grains of sand, a little at a time, until we have no rights left.

[727Sky]

[Ninurta]

Lots of things I don't understand about the entire debate.

I don't understand why anyone thinks this decision will in any way affect any rights. It will not. Overturning Roe vs. Wade will not affect any rights at all, since Roe vs. Wade never created nor issued any rights at all, it issued a privilege - the privilege for a female of the species to eradicate her own offspring nation-wide without having to consider anyone else around her, said offspring included. You can easily tell the difference between a privilege and a right once you understand the secret of them. The state cannot eliminate a right, because it does not issue rights. If the State told you you can do it, then it is a privilege issued by the State. If you can do it without asking anyone's permission, then it is a right. By the very act of making the Roe Vs Wade decision, the state declared it to be a privilege issued by the state rather than a right.

I don't understand all these "my body, my decision" people, either. Sure, if it affect only YOUR body, then it is your own decision... but the baby is it's own body, it's own person, so your rights end where the baby begins - which is why the State had to issue the privilege of killing it off, because normally, according to law, the killing of another person without justification is defined as murder. Roe vs. Wade issued a special dispensation that was a defense against that charge. . I am my mother's son. I am NOT my mother's body, nor did I come from her body alone. There were two gametes involved in my production, one from my mother, one from my father. If it can be said that I am her body, it logically follows that I am HIS body, too. However, for some odd reason, had she decided to liquidate me, his input would not have been required had I been born in the modern day. Seems a little unfair and lopsided.

Taken together, these reasons add up to abortion being a State sanctioned murder. Susan Smith was convicted of murder for doing the same thing that millions of other women have done without legal repercussion, the difference? The millions did it in State sanctioned liquidation centers, and Smith did it in a non-state sanctioned lake. That Peterson guy killed his wife, and was then charged with TWO murders because she was pregnant... but had his wife, the same pregnant wife that he killed, instead gone to a state-sanctioned liquidation center, she could have killed that same child at the same time without legal repercussions - no charge of murder for her had she done so, because the State ha issued that privilege to her... but apparently didn't extend it to the male in the equation. Is that sexist? Maybe. Wiser heads would have to ponder the point.

I dunno. just lots of stuff that I can't find the logical handle on in this debate. It seems highly illogical, and more emotion-driven.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not "pro-life", because that is a sucker's bet. We will ALL die some day, so being pro-life is a losing proposition, eventually. I'm also not convinced that parents should not have the power of life or death over their own kids. It worked pretty well for a long time for the Jews, Christians, and Muslims. But if that is to be a privilege, then it should be an equitable privilege. That baby didn't get there all by itself, and unless the woman was impregnated in an Immaculate Conception, then she didn't make it all by herself, either - so when will fathers have the same rights, or at least a say in the matter?

Don't want to be burdened with a child? There's a simple solution, far less expensive than an abortion. Just keep your knees together, and your pecker in your pants. Otherwise, life is full of chance-taking, so you pays yer dime and you takes yer chances with a single roll of the dice... or roll in the hay. The two have some definite parallels.


.

[ABNARTY]

So...

Roe vs. Wade stated the Constitution protects a woman's privacy under the 14th Amendment. An abortion is one on the things which falls under that privacy. Therefore states cannot interfere with it to varying degrees. At no time was an abortion considered a "right" in itself. 

SOCTUS normally reverses previous decisions at the rate of about once a year. So, reversals are not uncommon at all. In previous years, RvW has stood. This time, it may not if the media is to be believed. The current SCOTUS may think their previous interpretation was faulty. It happens. 

Unpopular Opinion: 
Since men can be pregnant now, I am safe to have an opinion on the matter. (Suck on that one Wokies!) We are not going back to pre-1973. I'm sure there will be some who try but that battle will be up to the individual states. It will be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. States will have differences but it will be hard to maintain a zero abortion law. I have personal beliefs on the matter of abortion itself but that is not the subject of discussion here.

[Brotherman]

So...

Roe vs. Wade stated the Constitution protects a woman's privacy under the 14th Amendment. An abortion is one on the things which falls under that privacy. Therefore states cannot interfere with it to varying degrees. At no time was an abortion considered a "right" in itself. 

SOCTUS normally reverses previous decisions at the rate of about once a year. So, reversals are not uncommon at all. In previous years, RvW has stood. This time, it may not if the media is to be believed. The current SCOTUS may think their previous interpretation was faulty. It happens. 

Unpopular Opinion: 
Since men can be pregnant now, I am safe to have an opinion on the matter. (Suck on that one Wokies!) We are not going back to pre-1973. I'm sure there will be some who try but that battle will be up to the individual states. It will be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. States will have differences but it will be hard to maintain a zero abortion law. I have personal beliefs on the matter of abortion itself but that is not the subject of discussion here.

Well there is always the heroin (any drug really) argument. Primarily being you can make what ever shit you want illegal but it don’t stop really anyone from doing anything. That being said I’d prefer the idea of a person choosing an abortion and getting one done by a medical professional and not a desperate woman or couple with a rusty fucking coat hanger or a really steep set of stairs. 

With that being said I don’t claim to know the answers about living and and not alive yet bullshit. I’m just saying that no matter how you cut the shit one way or the other abortions are not going away and I would hate to see people that aren’t in the gray area of being alive or not get fucked up or die trying to do an abortion themselves.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

So...

Roe vs. Wade stated the Constitution protects a woman's privacy under the 14th Amendment. An abortion is one on the things which falls under that privacy. Therefore states cannot interfere with it to varying degrees. At no time was an abortion considered a "right" in itself. 

SOCTUS normally reverses previous decisions at the rate of about once a year. So, reversals are not uncommon at all. In previous years, RvW has stood. This time, it may not if the media is to be believed. The current SCOTUS may think their previous interpretation was faulty. It happens. 

Unpopular Opinion: 
Since men can be pregnant now, I am safe to have an opinion on the matter. (Suck on that one Wokies!) We are not going back to pre-1973. I'm sure there will be some who try but that battle will be up to the individual states. It will be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. States will have differences but it will be hard to maintain a zero abortion law. I have personal beliefs on the matter of abortion itself but that is not the subject of discussion here.

I think they are using this as a weapon or a tool to push forward their agenda.

Most States provide free Plan B, commonly referred to as the morning after pill,  for women that are victims of rape to prevent pregnancy. Plan B can be purchased over the counter at almost every pharmacy or grocery store, so those women that fear pregnancy have numerous options that do not require an abortion.

This options were not readily available to women before. If a woman does not want to be pregnant she does not have to be if she is proactive. If she waits until it is too late for preventive medication or an abortifacient to work, then we are looking at another argument all together.

This is not about a woman's right to choose. A woman has more choices than ever before. This is about something else altogether.

Now is a time that we should be ever vigilant, and stop following the Pied Piper.

[hounddoghowlie]

I am my mother's son. I am NOT my mother's body, nor did I come from her body alone. There were two gametes involved in my production, one from my mother, one from my father. If it can be said that I am her body, it logically follows that I am HIS body, too. However, for some odd reason, had she decided to liquidate me, his input would not have been required had I been born in the modern day. Seems a little unfair and lopsided.

I read that, and you are absolutely right. The father has absolutely no rights in the decision.
If the woman wants to terminate and the man doesn't there's very little if any thing he can do. But if she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, the majority of the time if she or the state decides that the man has to pay child support guess what he does until the child is 18.

Where the equal in that?

[Snarl]

I learned responsible parenting from my folks.  They divorced ... and treated me and my older brother like unwanted luggage.  They were young and empowered and irresponsible.  Pretty sure we would have both be aborted back then had the law allowed for it.

My wife and I made two kids ... she lovingly refers to them as Oops Babies.  I wish we had made more.  She was satisfied with two.

I've got a friend who believes the Bible tells him if his kids get out of hand he (and only he) has the right to depart them from this world.


So many different thoughts and ways ... but, all possibilities end with death. Babies deserve every chance they can get.  I don't agree that killing them is a fair thing to do at all. If the Federal Government decides to end its sanctioning of these deaths ... and puts the decision down to the state level ... then, in my opinion, they have at least taken a step in the right direction.

I believe the sole purpose of government(s) is to protect the rights of her citizens.  Maybe after this first step is taken ... the government will come around and remember who this applies to: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

[ABNARTY]

So...

Roe vs. Wade stated the Constitution protects a woman's privacy under the 14th Amendment. An abortion is one on the things which falls under that privacy. Therefore states cannot interfere with it to varying degrees. At no time was an abortion considered a "right" in itself. 

SOCTUS normally reverses previous decisions at the rate of about once a year. So, reversals are not uncommon at all. In previous years, RvW has stood. This time, it may not if the media is to be believed. The current SCOTUS may think their previous interpretation was faulty. It happens. 

Unpopular Opinion: 
Since men can be pregnant now, I am safe to have an opinion on the matter. (Suck on that one Wokies!) We are not going back to pre-1973. I'm sure there will be some who try but that battle will be up to the individual states. It will be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. States will have differences but it will be hard to maintain a zero abortion law. I have personal beliefs on the matter of abortion itself but that is not the subject of discussion here.

Well there is always the heroin (any drug really) argument. Primarily being you can make what ever shit you want illegal but it don’t stop really anyone from doing anything. That being said I’d prefer the idea of a person choosing an abortion and getting one done by a medical professional and not a desperate woman or couple with a rusty fucking coat hanger or a really steep set of stairs. 

With that being said I don’t claim to know the answers about living and and not alive yet bullshit. I’m just saying that no matter how you cut the shit one way or the other abortions are not going away and I would hate to see people that aren’t in the gray area of being alive or not get fucked up or die trying to do an abortion themselves.

I guess one of the things I was trying to convey is we are not going back to pre-1973 and homemade abortions. IMHO.

We have established the medical care to provide the service pretty much anywhere. States will have to deal with the details as they see fit. 

For me, I like the idea of the issue returning to the states. People have more control over issues at the local level then the cesspool in DC.

[Selbiene_Raveren]

So...

Roe vs. Wade stated the Constitution protects a woman's privacy under the 14th Amendment. An abortion is one on the things which falls under that privacy. Therefore states cannot interfere with it to varying degrees. At no time was an abortion considered a "right" in itself. 

SOCTUS normally reverses previous decisions at the rate of about once a year. So, reversals are not uncommon at all. In previous years, RvW has stood. This time, it may not if the media is to be believed. The current SCOTUS may think their previous interpretation was faulty. It happens. 

Unpopular Opinion: 
Since men can be pregnant now, I am safe to have an opinion on the matter. (Suck on that one Wokies!) We are not going back to pre-1973. I'm sure there will be some who try but that battle will be up to the individual states. It will be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. States will have differences but it will be hard to maintain a zero abortion law. I have personal beliefs on the matter of abortion itself but that is not the subject of discussion here.

I think they are using this as a weapon or a tool to push forward their agenda.

Most States provide free Plan B, commonly referred to as the morning after pill,  for women that are victims of rape to prevent pregnancy. Plan B can be purchased over the counter at almost every pharmacy or grocery store, so those women that fear pregnancy have numerous options that do not require an abortion.

This options were not readily available to women before. If a woman does not want to be pregnant she does not have to be if she is proactive. If she waits until it is too late for preventive medication or an abortifacient to work, then we are looking at another argument all together.

This is not about a woman's right to choose. A woman has more choices than ever before. This is about something else altogether.

Now is a time that we should be ever vigilant, and stop following the Pied Piper.

I was thinking the same thing. Why does it ever get to the point that someone has to get an abortion? There are a considerable number of preventative measures available these days that just weren't readily available--from contraception to the morning after pill, or like Ninurta said "Just keep your knees together, and your pecker in your pants." 

If you waited that long to do something about it, that an abortion was required, perhaps you should just deal with the consequences.

[FlyingClayDisk]

Please forgive my ignorance with this question, but can someone explain to me why this issue is coming up now???

Don't we have enough shit to be dealing with in this country right now?  What caused this to come to the forefront right now?

People have been arguing about this subject for 39 years, why is the SCOTUS suddenly choosing now to take up and hear this case and issue a ruling...and create complete chaos in this country?  Can't this issue wait for a year???  Why now?

I must be missing something.