Russia's New 'Conservative' Ideology To Counter Liberalism

[Ninurta]

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This is from MEMRI, which while being anti-jihadist, can't really be pegged down as either "Conservative" or Liberal". The have an interesting take on the motion of European politics, which normally would concern then only in regards to the influx of Islamic "refugees" into Europe. They, however, appear to be paying attention to Putin and Russia, as a great many are doing these days.

Renowned Russian academic Sergey Karaganov describes Russian President Vladimir Putin's speech at the latest October Valdai Forum[1] as the "first major and strong call for reinventing Russian ideology for Russia and the world."[2] Indeed, Putin's speech can be viewed as an ideological manifesto that tries to put Russia back in the center of the world's political map.

...

According to Karaganov, the West, after dominating the economy, politics, ideology, and culture for five hundred years, finds itself in ideological decline. "All powers, if they want to be great, must have a set of ideas leading forward. When these ideas were lost, great powers ceased to be great or simply disintegrated. This happened to Rome. This happened in the 17th century to Spain. This happened to the Soviet Union when we lost the communist idea that led us. It was false, but it was there. This happened to the great European powers, which got tired and abandoned their ideas in favor of a pan-European one that pushed them forward for some time. But it has run [out] of steam now, too. And they have started to crumble," Karaganov opines.

So Karaganov sees the same civilization collapse that I can see coming.

But what did Putin say in that speech? WHY would MEMRI headline the article as the did, trying to paint Putin as a "conservative" when he is a former KGB agent?

Furthermore, according to Putin, liberalism has failed and the new progressive liberal ideas pushed forward by the West show only a loss of values and identity. Hence, to counter the liberal elite in the West, Putin suggests for Russia to become the beacon of conservatism and traditionalism. "The conservative views we hold are an optimistic conservatism," Putin affirmed at the Valdai Forum.

Putin further states that values are a "a unique product of cultural and historical development of any nation." For this reason, the West should not promote in other countries values and ideas that stand in contrast with the local culture and tradition. "The social and cultural shocks that are taking place in the United States and Western Europe are none of our business; we are keeping out of this," Putin said.

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Putin not only determines in his speech that liberalism is not the "end of history", but also shows similarities between liberalism (or more accurately progressive liberalism) and communism, ironically echoing anti-Kremlin conservative Polish philosopher and politician Ryszard Legutko's book, "The Demon In Democracy."

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In his speech, Putin, who considers history as a key element for shaping Russia's new ideology, actually states:

"Where are the humanitarian fundamentals of Western political thought? … What are the general ethical limits in the world where the potential of science and machines are becoming almost boundless? … Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, 'reverse discrimination' against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.

"Listen, I would like to point out once again that they have a right to do this, we are keeping out of this. But we would like to ask them to keep out of our business as well. We have a different viewpoint, at least the overwhelming majority of Russian society – it would be more correct to put it this way – has a different opinion on this matter. We believe that we must rely on our own spiritual values, our historical tradition, and the culture of our multiethnic nation.

"The advocates of so-called 'social progress' believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags, as we say, go right ahead. The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs, and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion, and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.

"This, I believe, should call to mind some of what we are witnessing now. Looking at what is happening in a number of Western countries, we are amazed to see the domestic practices - which we, fortunately, have left, I hope - in the distant past. The fight for equality and against discrimination has turned into aggressive dogmatism bordering on absurdity, when the works of the great authors of the past – such as Shakespeare – are no longer taught at schools or universities, because their ideas are believed to be backward. The classics are declared backward and ignorant of the importance of gender or race. In Hollywood, memos are distributed about proper storytelling and how many characters of what color or gender should be in a movie. This is even worse than the agitprop department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

"Countering acts of racism is a necessary and noble cause, but the new 'cancel culture' has turned it into 'reverse discrimination' – that is, reverse racism. The obsessive emphasis on race is further dividing people, when the real fighters for civil rights dreamed precisely about erasing differences and refusing to divide people by skin color. I specifically asked my colleagues to find the following quote from Martin Luther King: 'I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by their character.' This is the true value. However, things are turning out differently there. By the way, the absolute majority of Russian people do not think that the color of a person's skin or their gender is an important matter. Each of us is a human being. This is what matters.

"In a number of Western countries, the debate over men’s and women’s rights has turned into a perfect phantasmagoria. Look, beware of going where the Bolsheviks once planned to go – not only communalizing chickens, but also communalizing women. One more step and you will be there."

And:

"Zealots of these new approaches even go so far as to want to abolish these concepts altogether. Anyone who dares mention that men and women actually exist, which is a biological fact, risks being ostracized. 'Parent number one' and 'parent number two,' 'birthing parent' instead of 'mother,' and 'human milk' replacing 'breastmilk' because it might upset the people who are unsure about their own gender. I repeat, this is nothing new; in the 1920s, the so-called Soviet Kulturtraegers also invented some newspeak believing they were creating a new consciousness and changing values that way. And, as I have already said, they made such a mess it still makes one shudder at times.

"Not to mention some truly monstrous things when children are taught from an early age that a boy can easily become a girl and vice versa. That is, the teachers actually impose on them a choice we all supposedly have. They do so while shutting the parents out of the process and forcing the child to make decisions that can upend their entire life. They do not even bother to consult with child psychologists – is a child at this age even capable of making a decision of this kind? Calling a spade a spade, this verges on a crime against humanity, and it is being done in the name and under the banner of progress.

"Well, if someone likes this, let them do it. I have already mentioned that, in shaping our approaches, we will be guided by a healthy conservatism. That was a few years ago, when passions on the international arena were not yet running as high as they are now, although, of course, we can say that clouds were gathering even then. Now, when the world is going through a structural disruption, the importance of reasonable conservatism as the foundation for a political course has skyrocketed – precisely because of the multiplying risks and dangers, and the fragility of the reality around us."

This is where I may need to point out that Putin was making this speech to Russians, and therefore appealing to the current values of Russians rather than the old Soviet mindset, nor was he propagandizing "The West". he was speaking what RUSSIANS want to hear, to shore up his own position in Russia, rather than trying to twist the nose of "The West".

This is the mindset that BidenHarris is trying to go to war against.

It is the same mindset that prevailed in America before about 1994, when "progressivism" took root and started to flourish here.

I predicted, a number of years ago, that just as the Republicans and Democrats did a flip-flop in the aftermath of the Civil War, during "Reconstruction" - a flip-flop that saw them completely switch sides and swap ideologies - so would the ideologies on the world stage undergo a transformation that saw each side taking the role of their opposite side in the aftermath of the Cold War.

I said that when I saw an ad for a rifle, made in America (AR-15), that was for sale in Russia when it could not be bought in America, legally in about 1996.

I'm starting to feel just a bit vindicated.

I highly recommend reading the entire article to get a grasp on it. I've only hit a few of the high points here.

Source


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[F2d5thCav]

Ideology is what it is, but Putin & Co. will have to get past their love of kleptocratic oligarchy first.

We have a similar problem.  The basic idea of "America" is great, but the way our government and society is operating today makes a mockery of the Constitution.

Most of what I've seen from Putin is yelping about how the Cold War ended (any Soviet failures were their own fault, something the Russian government today studiously avoids mentioning), and, a re-hash of Pan-Slavism with some adjustment for changes since 1914.  The latter is a paternalistic outlook, but with a daddy who is not altogether well upstairs.

I also think this globalist leftism movement that is running the West down should be countered, but with sound thinking, not a warmed-over stew of Tsarist and Soviet ideas.  Before Russia has anything new to offer to the world, my guess is their Cold War dinosaurs like Putin will have to pass away first.

Europe, like @Wallfire used to say, is screwed.  The clock is ticking on the next outburst of violence, one that will have little to do with Russian ambition or NATO's existence.

The USA is on the edge.  Not much further along the current path will be the end of the country.  Recovery is possible, but it will be difficult and be fraught with conflict.

Overall, it looks time for a change in many countries.

Cheers

[Ninurta]

Ideology is what it is, but Putin & Co. will have to get past their love of kleptocratic oligarchy first.

It's possible for Russia to be both Right Wing AND a Kleptocratic Oligarchy. We managed to do it for quite a while in the US, between about 1913 and the fall of our empire.

We have a similar problem.  The basic idea of "America" is great, but the way our government and society is operating today makes a mockery of the Constitution.

That's all a part of the ideological flip-flop going on. Just as Rome was not built in a day, institutions do not change overnight. It's a process, like a slow motion train wreck.

Most of what I've seen from Putin is yelping about how the Cold War ended (any Soviet failures were their own fault, something the Russian government today studiously avoids mentioning), and, a re-hash of Pan-Slavism with some adjustment for changes since 1914.  The latter is a paternalistic outlook, but with a daddy who is not altogether well upstairs.

It's a self-evident truth that Soviet failures were their own fault - WE didn't install them, they did that themselves, and are therefore responsible for their own shortcomings during the Soviet era.

I also think this globalist leftism movement that is running the West down should be countered, but with sound thinking, not a warmed-over stew of Tsarist and Soviet ideas.  Before Russia has anything new to offer to the world, my guess is their Cold War dinosaurs like Putin will have to pass away first.

The same could be said for here and our changes - us ancient Cold War dinosaurs will have to pass away before they are able to "fundamentally transform" America as rapidly or thoroughly as they want to into their Communist Utopia. They are, however, making a bully effort as we speak.

Europe, like @Wallfire used to say, is screwed.  The clock is ticking on the next outburst of violence, one that will have little to do with Russian ambition or NATO's existence.

The USA is on the edge.  Not much further along the current path will be the end of the country.  Recovery is possible, but it will be difficult and be fraught with conflict.

All very true. Recently a poll was taken of Americans, asking the question of how well are we getting along with one another, on a scale of 1 to 100, with 1 being kumbaya, and 100 being all out Civil War. The respondents gave us an average score of just slightly over 70, meaning we are not that far away from open conflict, and nearly everyone sees it.

Overall, it looks time for a change in many countries.

Cheers

Yup, and I'm pretty uncomfortable with it... but then again, the universe never asked about my comfort levels. It don't care. The next best thing is to be able to roll with the punches, merely survive until thriving is once again possible.

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[F2d5thCav]

@"Ninurta" 

Hmm, apparently not so self-evident to those who write Moscow's propaganda.

I browsed Putin's speech.

I'm sure he had input; whether he wrote it himself or not is questionable.  Speechwriters and all that.

I don't put faith in his words.  His line of work had disinformation as its middle name.  He's a spook and will be one to the day he dies.

All well and good for him to praise conservatism, but what it will look like coming out of Russia will just be another turn of the Pan-Slavism wheel with the lash for any westerners who get in the way.

I don't hold out much hope for anything positive coming out of Russia.  Their society got dumped on too long and absorbed the short-cutting and cheating lessons of communism.  It is pretty much all they know now.

Whatever creativity they have left goes into occasional new weapons systems.  Their "friends", the CCP, don't even have that.  Copy, copy.

But who does one copy when all the creative societies are dead and gone?

Dead end coming up fast, even if most people don't die in a worldwide catastrophe.

Cheers

[Ninurta]

@"F2d5thCav" -

You are quite correct in not putting much faith in Putin's words. He is, after all, a politician, and it's never safe to put any faith in ANY words of a politician. I do realize, however, that politicians are playing to an audience, an audience of constituents. They tend, therefore, to say what they think that audience wants to hear, whether they believe it themselves or not.

As far as it being propaganda, there is no doubt in my mind that it is. Just about every political speech I've ever heard was propaganda. The very best propaganda is always built on a grain of truth, and targeted to a particular audience. The only thing really in question is just which audience any given speech is targeted at.

Not all propaganda is objectively or totally untruthful (for example, where Putin says Russia has already tried the communism the West is flirting with, and it didn't work, he is being truthful yet still propagandistic), but it IS all lopsided, heavily weighted towards a particular viewpoint, usually one they want their audience to adopt as their own. So we need to carefully assess just who that intended audience is.

ETA: Personally, I am of the opinion that the Russian failure of Communism is why Western "Progressives" have been aiming their red-ass at Russia for so long now, and Putin in particular. I recall when Hillary threatened to push "the big red button" on Russia if she were elected. and of course Russia was made to be the boogey man all through the Trump years by the Progressives, used as a means to scare the children of big bad Trump being in cahoots with "evil". They are angry and embarrassed by Putin because he represents, to them, the objective failure on a large scale of everything they are still pushing for, to bring to America.

They can't have people being constantly reminded of their failures. It's bad for their business model.

I think you are old enough to recall when "blue" represented Republicans in America, and "red" represented Democrats, because red was the color of the Left worldwide - RED China, the RED guards, and red flags for communist nations, etc. Suddenly, in the 2000 election, those colors suddenly and mysteriously flip-flopped in their meanings in America. I think that was indicative of a sea change the Progressives wanted to make to make their philosophy more palatable, distance it from the Communism it represented to the rest of the world.

Propaganda takes many different forms, but it is all aimed at the minds of the audience. Now there are fewer in the audience that recall those colors were ever otherwisely assigned.

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[ABNARTY]

My dos centavos...

I cannot claim I am ready to move to Russia and have Uncle Vlad adopt me. 

However, whomever wrote the speech was directing it towards those on the West who are sick of where we are going. I may be one of those people. It was worded to help obfuscate from what Russia does. Make Mother Putin look like the reasonable one. Make me question my own world view. Now some KGB spook makes more sense to me than my own elected representatives is DC.  

So, IMHO, Putin's words resonate with me. The words of the speech are accurate to the degree for which they were intended. That does not make me ready to drink the vodka spiked Kool-Aid. 

The Bolsheviks killed millions of Russians and all the other ethnicities. They got to that point by employing many of the same tactics I see being employed by the NWO/Wok-iratti/Media. Anyone who has ever cracked open a history book sees the same thing. They would also know if you crack open the door for Russia, they will invite themselves in. It's just what they do. 

So what do I do? Russians will be Russians. Western Puppets will be Western Puppets. And probably a lot more people are going to die in Ukraine. And probably a lot more freedoms in the US will continue to be whittled down. Until I figure all this out, I will continue to hide in the woods.

[guohua]

@"Ninurta"  Wrote: 

You are quite correct in not putting much faith in Putin's words. He is, after all, a politician, and it's never safe to put any faith in ANY words of a politician.

My husband was reading your reply and stated to me.
"Remember, Putin was born and raised during the Old Stalinist type regime and he was a KGB Intelligence Officer for about 16 years. That means to me he is the Perfect politician, a very good Liar."

[Ninurta]

So, IMHO, Putin's words resonate with me. The words of the speech are accurate to the degree for which they were intended. That does not make me ready to drink the vodka spiked Kool-Aid. 

The words are accurate, but accuracy is not everything. They go as far as they go, but not everything is being said, so while accurate, the speech does not go the distance. That, too, is a part of propaganda - only telling the part one wants told, not the entire truth.

People eat that up until the other shoe drops.

Russians will be Russians, and like everything else in this world, including politicians, they can always be trusted to act according to their nature. But that is about as far as I trust anybody.

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[F2d5thCav]

Given the state of the USA these days, it is fashionable to prognosticate on the coming fall of America.

But another shoe will drop at some point, and that will be in Russia.

Putin's greatest failure as a leader is his inability to craft a durable system of political leadership in Russia that doesn't depend on someone dying or getting killed.  He used to, as an empty gesture, 'swap out' roles with Medvedev, but I don't think that is happening anymore.

Guessing here, but probably a consequence of the relationships among the oligarchs.  Vlad has to sit in a position where the direct levers of power are most easily accessed, else he may find himself 'Stalinized' and given a grand state funeral.

The dropping shoe is what happens after Putin dies.  Will Russia peacefully find a new leader, or will it be an oligarch mud wrestling contest ?  Where will the loyalties of the Russian Army be once Putin is gone?  Will they all follow a new leader or will there be contending groups of them struggling for supremacy?

This is his failure.  He is fixated on turning the clock back-- so much, in fact, that in the end it spells yet another period of political chaos for Russia.

Cheers

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

@"Ninurta" 

. . .

But who does one copy when all the creative societies are dead and gone?

Dead end coming up fast, even if most people don't die in a worldwide catastrophe.

Cheers

This is the greatest aspect of the post modern dilemma, it's all been done before, there is nothing new under the Sun.

The way we do things might change, we have new technologies and access to generations of knowledge, but what we do never changes. There can be no new creativity of any real consequence, so no matter what great achievements we seem to make, we've reached the end of our creative potential as a species. The most that happens is post modern chaos, break all the standards and social taboos, mix it all up and see what comes out at the end. As you have stated, an end that is fast approaching.

They were all in love with dying
They were drinking from a fountain
That was pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain

Lyrics from the song "Pepper" by the Butthole Surfers

[F2d5thCav]

@"Michigan Swamp Buck" 

The leaders of the EU have a civilizational death wish, I'm convinced.

Weird how everything ran off the rails so quickly.

Cheers

[Ninurta]

I have no doubt that @"F2d5thCav" is right, that when Putin dies Russia will be in turmoil. We may see the causes and effects differently, but the end result is the same. I think that when Putin dies, there will be an oligarchical free for all, and that will present an opportunity for the Globalists to strike and haul Russia into their camp, perhaps kicking and screaming, maybe not, but dragged in all the same. When Russia is weakened even further, and in a general tumultuous panic with everyone trying to claw their way up to Top Dawg, that is the time for them to strike, exacerbate the turmoil, and take over in the dust clouds, before they settle.

He's also correct that the EU leaders have a civilizational death wish, just as the American Progressives do. You cannot create a new World Order until the old civilization is destroyed and swept away. You build on cleared ground, not on a broken foundation that you dynamited into rubble.

There's gonna be a lot of changes everywhere, and none of them for the betterment of the general population.

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[Bally002]

I have no doubt that @"F2d5thCav" is right, that when Putin dies Russia will be in turmoil. We may see the causes and effects differently, but the end result is the same. I think that when Putin dies, there will be an oligarchical free for all, and that will present an opportunity for the Globalists to strike and haul Russia into their camp, perhaps kicking and screaming, maybe not, but dragged in all the same. When Russia is weakened even further, and in a general tumultuous panic with everyone trying to claw their way up to Top Dawg, that is the time for them to strike, exacerbate the turmoil, and take over in the dust clouds, before they settle.

He's also correct that the EU leaders have a civilizational death wish, just as the American Progressives do. You cannot create a new World Order until the old civilization is destroyed and swept away. You build on cleared ground, not on a broken foundation that you dynamited into rubble.

There's gonna be a lot of changes everywhere, and none of them for the betterment of the general population.

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From where I stand, I am not sure what ideology I could live under, Russian, Chinese or US.  If they lose the plot and open up I'll try my best for family and friends to survive for as long as ever whatever comes our way.  

No one wants to die for personal crap much less Putin and Xi.  Considering a global aspect this is not much different from those who control city blocks.  A micro-demographic if you please.  Difference being education, training and knowledge.

Now, I have no favs in all this but I'm sure Putin will out-survive Biden or Xi for that matter.  None have considerations for domestic issues much less their Governors, leaders and those captains/mayors of smaller dominions.  Not much less than the leaders from my own dig. 

No one is really safe from the machinations of these people who consider themselves as the worlds elitists or untouchables if you may.  Nothing I say will halt the provocations exhibited on all sides.  Poking and prodding, trying to expand is a waste of resources as far as I'm concerned.  

I'll simply consolidate on my little plot in the meantime and maybe I'll outlive Putin and the others.  

Pipe dreams from me,

Bally:)