The AR-15 Thread - AR-15's and Magazines

[Ninurta]

Red dot is the way to go for quick target acquisition for home defense ranges out to about 150 yards or so.

Magnified scopes are for longer ranges.

Long range shooting is what I have a scoped bolt action rifle for.

Curious:  what are the other ranges for you?

I can use an AR out to about 350 or 400 yards, and the scoped bolt action out to 600 or 800. I'm no sniper, and I'm not as good at it as I used to be because - old eyes.

It's ok by me, though, because in this terrain you rarely run into shooting that's going to be over 800 yards, and most will be considerably shorter. 400 to 600 yards will be a "long range" shot around here because of the hills, the hollows, and the thick forest.

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[Snarl]

I can use an AR out to about 350 or 400 yards, and the scoped bolt action out to 600 or 800. I'm no sniper, and I'm not as good at it as I used to be because - old eyes.

It's ok by me, though, because in this terrain you rarely run into shooting that's going to be over 800 yards, and most will be considerably shorter. 400 to 600 yards will be a "long range" shot around here because of the hills, the hollows, and the thick forest.

Tell me about it.  When I was a youngster, I could see a man sized silhouette at ~500m without an optic.  Beyond that ... uh uh.  I did a tune-up on my eyes probably ten years ago, which was a big improvement, but didn't completely turn back the years.

Me and my buddy found a field nearby that stretches to 835 ... we're lucky for that, as the nearest real range is over 2 hours one-way from here.  600m seems to be that magic length for me ... that place where Kentucky Windage gives way to technical application.  So, at about 765m, we're able to get in a good workout and use a spotting scope to see what we're actually doing.

Lemme stop before I derail.

Cheers!!

[Schmoe1]

Nope, not worth it at all modifying guns illegally.  For full auto or a homemade suppressor.  I will say I'd go for a suppressor before I went for full auto if shit actually hit the fan.  In that case, I'm glad the Palmetto came with a screwed on A2 flash hider rather than pin welded on.

I'm not an expert on ARs, but I kind of regret not going with the mid length instead of the carbine based on what I've read about both.  Mine has the nitrided barrel, I've heard chromed is the way to go for longevity, but again, I'm no expert.

I love the old iron sights, this Palmetto has the Magpul flip-up rear sight on a picatinny rail with a fixed front sight, but I also want to get a red dot, I've been eyeing an affordable Sig Sauer that's gotten nice reviews, but I'm split between a red dot and a lower magnification rifle scope.  I don't want to be cheap with either but I'm limited to one or the other for now.  

Full auto ain't for the lighthearted.  It's expensive ... and you have to train.  It costs me about 17¢ to make a 5.56 round (not counting my personal time).  Costs me about $50/mo to keep sharp ... and I don't do full auto anymore.  Silencers?  I don't use them either.  They're not 'handy', they draw government attention, and they're way over-priced.  You can sneak one (or several) from LAFO at affordable prices.  They'll even help you get around the gun grabbers.  Chances are, yours will wind up in an old ammo can like mine ... waiting for 'that day'.

You did fine with buying a carbine length rifle to start (very smart).  You'll find a mid-length bbl is like a multi-tool.  It can do jobs, but it doesn't do them as well.   If you need more legs than your carbine offers, step up to an AR-10.  Let me say that again ... step up to an AR-10.

Sig Sauer is making mighty fine (and very competitively priced) red dots.  Spend the coin for the 65moa circle. That's the Romeo 5-XDR if memory serves.  If multiple bad guys get into your house (while you're sleeping) you can thank me for that advice after. -grin. If you haven't bought and mounted a weapon light ... set your priorities correctly.  When you get your red dot mounted, experiment with moving your rear iron-sight forward of the optic.  Might surprise you.

You and I feel the same way about Springfield.  I bought a .45 TRP.  Flagship model, but fraught with design flaws.  Sent it back and they just made it marginally worse.  They'll never see another penny from me.

Interesting about placing the rear sight in front of the red dot, I haven't heard of that and will give it a shot when I get a red dot, I'm definitely leaning towards that over a full on rifle scope.  The Sig Romeo is exactly what I was talking about, I've heard good things. 

Man I wanted a .308 AR bad, but my budget for now limited me to the AR15.  I even thought about getting one of those Century Arms CETMEs, but I've seen reviews all over the place.  I guess it depends which parts got harvested for your rifle 

[Schmoe1]

 Silencers?  I don't use them either.  They're not 'handy', they draw government attention, and they're way over-priced.  You can sneak one (or several) from LAFO at affordable prices.  They'll even help you get around the gun grabbers.  Chances are, yours will wind up in an old ammo can like mine ... waiting for 'that day'.

I've used silencers, on everything from handguns to SMG's. The only two I've ever used that were truly quiet were on a Ruger 10/22, and one that was developed by the CIA for the Beretta M92, and of which only 6 were ever built. The Ruger 10/22 had an integral, full length silencer built right on to the barrel. The barrel was turned down for it's entire length beyond the receiver and ported with 4 rows of 1/8 inch holes that entire length, and the silencer was constructed by encasing it in a 1 1/4" or maybe 1 1/2" aluminum tube all the way from the receiver to the muzzle and packing the guts into that, then sealing it. Then the stock was inletted to accommodate the silencer tube. That one was so quiet that you didn't hear anything but the bolt slapping as the action cycled.

The CIA silencer was pretty quiet, too. It silenced that 9mm Beretta to about the level of a CO2 gun, and that and the slide cycling was all you heard.

Most of them are usually only about as quiet as a loud hand clap up to about the level of an unsilenced .22. Not really worth the effort, expense, or hazard of owning one as a civilian.

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True, they'll also dirty the shit out of your gun.  The quietest I've fired was at a range near me, they had a suppressed Auto Ordnance .45 1911, it was the nicest shooting handgun I've ever fired, and surprisingly quiet, I wish I could remember the name of the suppressor.  

They also had a suppressed MP5, it was like you said, pretty much all you heard was the bolt cycling back and forth.

I'm sure you've heard of the fuel filter suppressors, there's a bunch of videos on YouTube, they seem actually decent if you know what you're doing, which I don't.  I'm pretty handy but I'd hate to risk my AR over something like that.

About the threaded A2, I believe some still do come with it welded on, I think the Ruger AR might, I'll have to look into it more.

Edit: I was wrong about the Ruger, I believe you're right, most seem to come with the A2 threaded on nowadays. It seemed to be more commonly pin welded years ago.

[projectvxn]

I'd prefer new-manufactured bodies because they have improved internal geometry and better spot welds compared to older service models. But other than that, nothing.

EDIT:

Right now, these are the best magazines for a low budget on the market if you can't afford the Okay mags.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56...-8416.html

You and I will have to differ on mag choices, but differing opinions is what makes the world go around. eh? I'll fault no man for picking the poison he's willing to bet his own life on - your choice just isn't mine. that's all.


From what I can see of those magazines on the page you linked to, they have the exact same internal geometry as the 40 year old former USMC GI mags I have right now, and appear to have been made on the same machinery. The main difference between the ones I have and those is the teflon coating on the inside of the mag, and the Magpul followers. I only have two Magpuls with Magpul followers, and have not had any trouble out of either one, but neither had had hard use - mostly because I never trusted them. Plastic feed lips and plastic magazine catch notches are not my idea of reliable when the heat is on. The teflon coating in the mags you recommend is a nice touch, and should prevent the stickiness that sometimes develops in the aluminum mags.

My gripe with the GI aluminum mags is that they are... aluminum. When bent, they stay bent, and that includes the aluminum feed lips. Now, one can make a convincing argument that dropping a mag on it's feed lips is bad practice, and I'd have to agree - but the fact remains that IF they get dinged, bent, or spread, that's where they stay on aluminum mags.

On the plus side, it's rare to see one separate along the back seam as I have seem Magpuls do, and the occasional spot-welded aluminum mag if the welds weaken. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to the Sanchez aluminum mag I have - the one that won't drop free of the mag well without a stout tug.

At 10 bucks a pop, the price isn't bad, but it's only about a quarter less each than the Lancers I bought in bulk.

Now, keeping in mind that all 6 of the aluminum mags I have are well over 40 years old, all of them have the black followers, and none of the followers are of the anti-tilt sort, so there is that. They served me well for 30 years or so, so I can't complain. As I said before, only one is unserviceable now, since it sticks in the mag well. All the rest are still good to go, which is why I still keep them in reserve just in case. I keep the Sticky Sanchez to demonstrate to folks why I don't use aluminum magazines any more - a practical demonstration is worth a thousand words.

I agree with you about the steel mags. I have 3 40 round steel mags made by national Magazine in California, all Colt marked on the floor plate, and they are all crap. They're hard to load, and when loaded they rattle too much, which tells me the follower - even though it's an anti-tilt follower (green) - is sticking somewhere in the magazine body. Kinda sucks, since they were all brand new straight from the factory when I got them, and they were crap right out of the wrapper.

Like I said before, though, I'll fault no man for betting his own life on his own preference. You have yours, I have mine, and it's all good. Mine are Lancers for the reasons I've outlined in the OP, and yours are the aluminum ones. I wish you the best of luck with them, and a long life to tell tales to your grandchildren, as I do mine.

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I don't disagree with anything you said here honestly, I just have a different philosophy that guides my choice. 

My philosophy is this:

Magazines are disposable. Typically, a polymer magazine will be useless if it splits or something happens to the feed lips. There is little you can do to repair a broken polymer magazine if disposing of them isn't an option. If mine gets so dinged up that I can't use them anymore they get taken to the shop, dings get hammered out, bent feed lips get unbent, and typically I will apply SFL. It is at this point that I replace the springs. If the followers are ok and haven't been chewed up they get reused, otherwise, they too get replaced.  

I used to own many Magpul mags, some lancers, a few Amend2's, some MFTs, and ETS mags and all of them have the problems I listed above. While I understand the issues you have with dinged-up aluminum mags, trust me, you can do wonders with a jewelers hammer, a mallet and punch set, and a spray can of SFL. I had to repair every magazine we had in our inventory before we deployed. Couldn't get new ones due to Obama's budget cuts. 

Not one of my repair mags failed when needed and believe me, they were needed.

[Snarl]

Interesting about placing the rear sight in front of the red dot, I haven't heard of that and will give it a shot when I get a red dot, I'm definitely leaning towards that over a full on rifle scope.  The Sig Romeo is exactly what I was talking about, I've heard good things. 

Man I wanted a .308 AR bad, but my budget for now limited me to the AR15.  I even thought about getting one of those Century Arms CETMEs, but I've seen reviews all over the place.  I guess it depends which parts got harvested for your rifle 

Moving the rear sight forward really works.  A lot of people think you can shoot more accurately with your sights spaced out as far apart as possible (straight line thingy).  It's only important to have your front sight post at a distance from your eye (and you need to be able to 'see that' well).

When EOTech was forced to return everyone's money ... I got mine back.  I sort of miss the optic.  It was a quality product.  Way over-priced, but in a league all by itself.  That's an important 'give' as far as disclosures from me goes.  I'm not a rich man, but I've enough for toys.  So, I went with the Sig over the Aimpoint.  The Sig leaves nothing to desire and I saved hundreds of $$$.  I'm going to buy one of these for my brother when he gets his rifle.

Right tool for the job.  Get close enough to throw rocks at one another and I'm picking a 3200fps cartridge that will splash your insides around.  Now, the AR-10 is decked out with a legit ACOG.  If you'll just hold still a sec, I'll shoot you in the face 4 times at 600yds ... LOL.  The power of a 168gr projectile compared to a 55gr @ 400-600yds is appreciable.  And, let's not talk about what my 4X4 would do to rioters if one of 'em laid a hand on it.  There's some fine driver's training available if you're willing to pay for it.  Might be the best self-defense money you ever spend ... as it's a tool that's in your hands for a far larger part of your day than any firearm.

[Snarl]

Just swap the follower and spring?  No other mod?

EDIT:

Right now, these are the best magazines for a low budget on the market if you can't afford the Okay mags.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56...-8416.html

On your strong advice, I ordered ten of these yesterday.  And, look at what just came in the mail ... 

[projectvxn]

Just swap the follower and spring?  No other mod?

EDIT:

Right now, these are the best magazines for a low budget on the market if you can't afford the Okay mags.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56...-8416.html

On your strong advice, I ordered ten of these yesterday.  And, look at what just came in the mail ... 

Wait...You ordered mags and got. 224 bullets?

[Snarl]

Wait...You ordered mags and got. 224 bullets?

I don't think Palmetto State can arrange an overnight delivery for a Sunday morning ... LOL

I had to have something to put into the mags when they arrive.  I should have a suitable load worked up for the projectiles by then.  Hoping to get 3,000fps out of them.

[Snarl]

Just swap the follower and spring?  No other mod?

EDIT:

Right now, these are the best magazines for a low budget on the market if you can't afford the Okay mags.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56...-8416.html

On your strong advice, I ordered ten of these yesterday.

Wait...You ordered mags and got. 224 bullets?

They arrived today.  Looking at them, I can't see why I would need to go to the trouble of swapping out the followers and springs.

Insight??  They've got anti-tilt followers ...

[projectvxn]

Just swap the follower and spring?  No other mod?

EDIT:

Right now, these are the best magazines for a low budget on the market if you can't afford the Okay mags.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56...-8416.html

On your strong advice, I ordered ten of these yesterday.

Wait...You ordered mags and got. 224 bullets?

They arrived today.  Looking at them, I can't see why I would need to go to the trouble of swapping out the followers and springs.

Insight??  They've got anti-tilt followers ...

You don't. Those are fine as is. 

I was talking about the old green followers and the the black and brown ones that the army kept a huge stock of for way longer than they should have. These PSA mags are good to go with decent magpul followers and springs already installed.

[Ninurta]

I picked up a Magpul 40 round Gen M3 magazine the other day. The older Gen M2 had floor plates that slid off towards the front of the magazine body, but the newer Gen M3's have floor plates that slide off to the rear, like all my other magazines. I don't know for sure, because I'm not about to load up my rifle and drop it on concrete like in the video in the OP, but I suspect that change was related to that video. I don't know whether it helps alleviate mag dumps or not.

Other changes in the Gen M3 Pmags include shoulders on the rear of the magazine to prevent over-insertion on an open bolt, a dot-matrix at the bottom of the mag to label it with a paint pen, and beefed up magazine catch surfaces. They claim the floor plate was slimmed down, but I don't see much difference between the M3 and the M2 versions. They're both still bulky, and both present problems when filling a magazine pouch. They could still learn something from Lancer when it comes to floor plates.

The M3 versions also come equipped with a feed lip cover, compared to the feed lip covers being a separate purchase for the M2 series. The covers are not interchangeable between the two. I tried.

The Pmag 40 rounder seats fine on a closed bolt even when it is topped off with a full 40 rounds.

Really, the only big gripe I have with it is Magpul's continued insistence on all polymer feed lips. I still cannot bring myself to trust a plastic feed lip against a hot gun bolt and carrier.

I stocked up on Lancer 30 round mags, but Lancer doesn't make a decent 40 rounder. I've seen some that are clamped together out of two piece magazine bodies, but that seems just a little insane to me, so I've avoided them. So for 40 rounders, I have two steel Colt marked National Magazine (a Commiefornia manufacturer) manufactured mags, which are crap since the followers tend to stick inside the parkerized steel bodies, 3 Bulgarian MWC 40 rounders which are my go-to big mags, because they just work, work well, and have polymer coated steel feed lips, and this one lonely Pmag. The Pmag might be ok as an ambush mag, but I wouldn't trust if for extended use. I only use the big magazines to be obnoxious for 10 rounds longer while I'm seeking cover, but then I switch to standard 30 round magazines. The first 40 rounds probably wouldn't heat it up enough to do too much damage to the lips, but after that, it's all fair game, and steel feed lips.

The gen M2 Pmags had two weak spots - the floor plate that dumped the magazines when it got jarred, and a tendency to split at the top of the back of the magazine, up at the top near the feed lips, which also tended to result in mag dumps if it was out of the weapon. They MAY have addressed the floorplate issue by switching the catch side of it back to front, but I don't know of any improvements to the feed lip area that would prevent splits there. Adding a steel feed lip insert that wrapped around the magazine spine like the Lancers do would fix that problem, I believe,  but Magpul seems dead set against that.

All in all, the Magpul Gen M3 Pmags are an improvement over the gen M2, but I'm just not sure that enough improvements have been made to correct all of the deficiencies and bring them to the reliability level I demand in combat magazines.

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