US Navy: 9 suicides in 9 months on the USS George Washington

[EndtheMadnessNow]

Happen to catch this tragic story from David Paulides. WTF is going on??

"You aren’t hearing about this, 9 suicides in 9 months on the USS George Washington. Why now? What changed? I’ve stated hundreds of times in the last 18 months, the number of suicides in the USA is off the charts and the reason CDC won’t release stats for last 2 yrs."

Hundreds of Sailors Being Moved Off Carrier After Surge of Suicides, Captain Tells Crew

The commanding officer of the USS George Washington told his crew Thursday that the Navy will begin to move sailors off of the aircraft carrier following a string of suicides and complaints from service members about conditions aboard the ship, whose projected departure from the shipyards has been pushed back once again.

Capt. Brent Gaut announced that the ship will move 260 sailors "to an offsite barracks-type living arrangement on Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth" -- specifically, a Navy Gateway Inn and Suites -- starting Monday, according to a recording of the announcement reviewed by Military.com.

"We'll be able to expand that number at about 50 additional beds per week as we figure out exactly what is needed," Gaut continued.

The moves comes at the end of a month that saw three sailors aboard the ship die via suicide, after a previously undisclosed string of suicides going back to at least July of last year.

Military.com has been able to confirm at least five suicides by sailors assigned to the ship in the last 10 months -- the Navy has disputed the cause of death for one of those sailors -- and eight in total since November 2019.

It also follows an April 22 visit to the ship by the Navy's top enlisted official, Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Russell Smith, in which the crew was told the service is largely powerless to improve conditions.

Smith told a sailor who had asked about living conditions that the Navy "probably could have done better to manage your expectations coming in here" before informing the crew that raising concerns should be done "with reasonable expectations and then understanding what ... what this is like."

"What you're not doing is sleeping in a foxhole like a Marine might be doing," he added.

According to the commanding officer, the ship currently has 422 sailors living on board. Since sailors typically do not receive an allowance for housing until the E-5 rank, those living on board a ship while it's in a shipyard tend to be the most junior crew members.

 I personally spent time in dry dock shipyards and granted it effin sucks big time, but C'mon it's not so bad to take your own life. The ever weakening of our military is deeply concerning. I guess today's generation is much weaker/woke shit then when I served. Very sad & angry at same time.

Aside from the Navy, the growing homelessness & drug addiction due to skyrocketing rent & home prices is only going to increase the suicide rate all over the Country. The fall of civilization is nigh?

[SimeonJ]

Just depopulation, don't worry.

[EndtheMadnessNow]

Just depopulation, don't worry.

Yep, that is and has always been part of their plan. Wars, famine, disease, vaccines, chemicals, mental health, and on & on.

[ABNARTY]

There are tons of awareness classes and training. Chains of Command have probably never been more understanding of the problem. Yet, service members are committing suicide at much higher rates than I have witnessed since I went in in the early 90's. No one culprit has been determined. 

IMHO, I think it has something more to do with the state of society than the military itself. Or maybe just the juxtaposition of the two. Not sure. 

What is expected of you in the military has stayed rather static over the years but what is considered OK in civilian life has drifted much farther away. The contrast may be part of the problem. 

I am not saying young folks are too soft, then they self destruct when they put on the uniform because adult things are required of them immediately. But I am convinced it has something to do with the chasm between expectations. 

I am convinced more than ever it is critical to raise kids/young adults a certain way in order to make solid adults. That requires a coordinated effort between family, school, church if it's in the picture, and the community. Kids need to be exposed to multigenerational influences. When schools expect nothing of you and teach you nothing, you spend all day on 4Chan, you are not involved with people in the community around you, guess what? You have had zero opportunity to develop important coping skills.

There are many suicides of older service members or people who have just retired or separated. I can speak to this a little. I am having a hard time dealing with people I meet out and about. I am lucky I do not need to work to get by. What passes as "management" at many places is pathetic. No honor, integrity, or humility. I have been re-wired in the military and have no desire to re-re-wire myself to come into phase with what's out in the civilian world. I will smile and be polite but I am not playing the game. I fear some older individuals do not survive this culture shock.

I pray the commander of the ship get's a hold of the situation ASAP but I know he is not the only one struggling to find an answer.

[EndtheMadnessNow]

There are tons of awareness classes and training. Chains of Command have probably never been more understanding of the problem. Yet, service members are committing suicide at much higher rates than I have witnessed since I went in in the early 90's. No one culprit has been determined. 

IMHO, I think it has something more to do with the state of society than the military itself. Or maybe just the juxtaposition of the two. Not sure. 

What is expected of you in the military has stayed rather static over the years but what is considered OK in civilian life has drifted much farther away. The contrast may be part of the problem. 

I am not saying young folks are too soft, then they self destruct when they put on the uniform because adult things are required of them immediately. But I am convinced it has something to do with the chasm between expectations. 

I am convinced more than ever it is critical to raise kids/young adults a certain way in order to make solid adults. That requires a coordinated effort between family, school, church if it's in the picture, and the community. Kids need to be exposed to multigenerational influences. When schools expect nothing of you and teach you nothing, you spend all day on 4Chan, you are not involved with people in the community around you, guess what? You have had zero opportunity to develop important coping skills.

There are many suicides of older service members or people who have just retired or separated. I can speak to this a little. I am having a hard time dealing with people I meet out and about. I am lucky I do not need to work to get by. What passes as "management" at many places is pathetic. No honor, integrity, or humility. I have been re-wired in the military and have no desire to re-re-wire myself to come into phase with what's out in the civilian world. I will smile and be polite but I am not playing the game. I fear some older individuals do not survive this culture shock.

I pray the commander of the ship get's a hold of the situation ASAP but I know he is not the only one struggling to find an answer.

Very well said. You make some great points! I'm not sure either, but do agree with all you said. I grew up in a military disciplined family and when I went off to boot camp I thought it was a joke; meaning for me it was a walk in the park. My whole time in I never once contemplated suicide no matter the situations. Now, when I got out that was a culture shock and did require some therapy sessions. After a few years working for big corporate America one of the prime differences I noticed was there was NO camaraderie. None, no backup, every man for himself. That's what I've always missed the most. Gone, even amongst co-worker friends some turned into backstabbers over stupid emotional shit. Send me, send me back to sea I use to daydream at work. Oh well, but I somehow prevailed in the rat race.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

I am convinced more than ever it is critical to raise kids/young adults a certain way in order to make solid adults. That requires a coordinated effort between family, school, church if it's in the picture, and the community. Kids need to be exposed to multigenerational influences. When schools expect nothing of you and teach you nothing, you spend all day on 4Chan, you are not involved with people in the community around you, guess what? You have had zero opportunity to develop important coping skills.

There are many suicides of older service members or people who have just retired or separated. I can speak to this a little. I am having a hard time dealing with people I meet out and about. I am lucky I do not need to work to get by. What passes as "management" at many places is pathetic. No honor, integrity, or humility. I have been re-wired in the military and have no desire to re-re-wire myself to come into phase with what's out in the civilian world. I will smile and be polite but I am not playing the game. I fear some older individuals do not survive this culture shock.

I pray the commander of the ship get's a hold of the situation ASAP but I know he is not the only one struggling to find an answer.

I see this way too often. The problem is not the children, it is our society, and the way their parents have allowed our society to impact and control the children.

The impact of children growing up with more interaction with a virtual world that is nearly pure fantasy, than with actual interaction in the real world, makes for a mind set that cannot process or accept reality.

When I say children I am speaking of folk as old as 28 years old. The level of maturity of most young adults hangs somewhere in the 12 to 13 year old range.

I wish I could tell you about my most recent case. All I can tell you is that it involved a young adult that was very intelligent, but had very poor social skills, was way too trusting of information obtained from the internet, and a distorted view of reality.

The majority of young adults claim a diagnosis of PTSD, depression, anxiety, OCD, and or bi-polar. Almost all of them are on some kind of mood altering drug and has, or has had, an issue with substance abuse.

They are in for a really rough ride, when their parents are no longer alive, or no longer able to provide for them. It is sad what we have done to our children. All because we believed a bunch of lies and garbage poured out from the media, the internet, and a severely corrupt system.

I fear it may indeed soon be TEOTWAWKI, it just seems that it will have an alternate ending.

[ChiefD]

It’s absolutely appalling and horrible what’s going on the USS George Washington. I’m in a Facebook group of Navy Chiefs, some of who are actually on that ship, that have an inside knowledge of what’s going on. The command climate on that ship is very very toxic. Command climate varies widely on Navy ships, and the George Washington has a huge problem with this. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these things are going on. Repeated warnings and junior Sailors trying to get help have been all but ignored. 

Saying things like “suck it up buttercup” does not help this problem. It’s a problem of leadership, or lack thereof. You cram all these young junior Sailors together without any decent leadership, and this is what happens. The Navy must do better with this, all military branches need to do better. They are short handed big time. Many have been processed out after refusing to get the covid vaccine, and those left over are doing the work of many people. That cannot go on. There will be another collision or something, and many more will die. 

There is still a huge stigma in the military with reporting mental health concerns. It’s still considered taboo even though publicly they say they encourage their people to get help if they are having a tough time.

[EndtheMadnessNow]

@ChiefD - thanks for your update. Appreciate your thoughts & perspective on the situation. That's why I never went to Carriers. I stayed on Destroyers till I was rewarded with shore duty bliss.

@NightskyeB4Dawn - Good points. I read somewhere (it was written by a Russian who lived through the USSR collapse) listing the stages of a full-on collapse of an empire and recall once it reaches societal collapse there is no return, it will continue to rock bottom is hit. I need to find that essay again.

[Snarl]

IMHO, I think it has something more to do with the state of society than the military itself.

Oh well, but I somehow prevailed in the rat race.

Probably doesn't hurt being one of the most astute personalities I've run across on the Internet.  Nor is it a hinderance to be engaged in dialog with a compliment like @"ABNARTY".

[Snarl]

I am convinced more than ever it is critical to raise kids/young adults a certain way in order to make solid adults.

When I say children I am speaking of folk as old as 28 years old. The level of maturity of most young adults hangs somewhere in the 12 to 13 year old range.

Glad I'm not the only one who sees this.

No idea what kind of intelligence could engineer the dumbass in such a large percentage of our society ... but they damn sure managed to pull it off big time.  There are 35 year olds out there who are still kids.  Let's call it The Lost Boys Syndrome or Peter Pan's.

[Snarl]

I need to find that essay again.

Please share if you do. 

[Snarl]

I honestly believe they need to start drawing down our armed forces and raising the pay of people fit to remain.

I think new physical standards should be established and strictly enforced.  I don't think we need all the Top Brass.

I think if a Service Member is 'put out' their slot should be permanently closed.

I think they need to look at what a unit should consist of (in the Army it was called a TO&E or Table of Organization and Equipment).  If they're falling short, break the unit up and re-distribute the assets.  If a squad of Soldiers consists of less than two complete teams ... If a platoon consists of less than four squads ... cut both the officers and senior NCOs who are supposed to be in charge all the way up through the ranks to the 4-Star level.  Just cut 'em and be done with it.

When you're done cutting you'll have a stronger and more focused workforce.  Anyone fails Anything ... they're gone ... and they won't be around to drag down standards anymore.

All the practice of being diverse ... or the expectation of treating someone with Dignity and Respect (when neither have been earned) ... can go right out the window.  It'll be nothing other than, "Here's the mission.  Let's go accomplish it."

[FlyingClayDisk]

I also agree that the source of this problem is not as much a military one as a societal one.  This doesn't mean that the military (Navy, or other branch) shouldn't rise to the occasion in finding solutions, but I don't believe they are the cause.

It would be interesting to see some statistics on post separation homelessness, drug abuse and suicide among active and former service persons from 1974 to 1978+/-, and compare these statistics to what is happening today, per capita.  I'd be willing to bet the trend trajectories look very (very) similar. 

And what's the common denominator? 

Towards the end of, and following, the Vietnam War there was a tremendous up swell of liberal / socialist social movements in society.  The public turned against the military, and there was a huge social gap between service members (active and/or separated) and the public.  Rather than receiving public support, military service members were ridiculed and disparaged.  It wasn't called "woke" back then, but it was essentially the same thing, a society of peers who thought they could do whatever the hell they wanted to do without repercussions, peers with no accountability and no responsibilities.  And, let's face it, a society of peers who acted like a bunch of immature, spoiled rotten little jerks who act much younger than their real age.  The culture shock for returning veterans, and even active duty service personnel, was too much for them to deal with and many of them failed to reintegrate to society as a result.  Those persons became demoralized (rightfully so) and basically just gave up.

And what do we have today??  Almost the exact same environment.  The military didn't change...society did.  The military taught their service persons to be responsible and accountable, to be honorable.  And these same people are surrounded by a society of their peers who are nothing like them, but worse a society who look down on them because they are not as irresponsible and immature, and because they don't lie, or play the "victim" all the time...and because they have honor.

It makes me want to put a boot in a whole bunch of people's collective asses!!!

[AmericanBuffalo]

I honestly believe they need to start drawing down our armed forces and raising the pay of people fit to remain.

I think new physical standards should be established and strictly enforced.  I don't think we need all the Top Brass.

I think if a Service Member is 'put out' their slot should be permanently closed.

I think they need to look at what a unit should consist of (in the Army it was called a TO&E or Table of Organization and Equipment).  If they're falling short, break the unit up and re-distribute the assets.  If a squad of Soldiers consists of less than two complete teams ... If a platoon consists of less than four squads ... cut both the officers and senior NCOs who are supposed to be in charge all the way up through the ranks to the 4-Star level.  Just cut 'em and be done with it.

When you're done cutting you'll have a stronger and more focused workforce.  Anyone fails Anything ... they're gone ... and they won't be around to drag down standards anymore.

All the practice of being diverse ... or the expectation of treating someone with Dignity and Respect (when neither have been earned) ... can go right out the window.  It'll be nothing other than, "Here's the mission.  Let's go accomplish it."

I think this is an excellent proposal. It certainly would allow the  US military to become what it once was or at least be a force to truly be reckoned with. No tolerance for anything less than excellence should be the guiding principle. No touchy feely crap anywhere in the military! Leave that for preschoolers.

[EndtheMadnessNow]

I need to find that essay again.

Please share if you do. 

Found it and even better he wrote a book on it.

Here's the short essay from 2008 that he wrote while researching for his book, The Five Stages of Collapse: Survivors' Toolkit -- Paperback – Illustrated, June 1, 2013 by Dmitry Orlov > Amazon

An émigré from Russia, Orlov had already seen one collapse firsthand. He witnessed the Soviet Union’s fall during the early-to-mid 1990s, and in the process accumulated a vast store of wisdom on collapses in general and how best to proceed when caught in one. It didn’t take him long after that to see that America was headed for a similar, if more severe, crash of its own.

Excerpts from the book:



If interested I can send you a PDF link.

Here's a short book review of it.

[ABNARTY]

I am convinced more than ever it is critical to raise kids/young adults a certain way in order to make solid adults. That requires a coordinated effort between family, school, church if it's in the picture, and the community. Kids need to be exposed to multigenerational influences. When schools expect nothing of you and teach you nothing, you spend all day on 4Chan, you are not involved with people in the community around you, guess what? You have had zero opportunity to develop important coping skills.

There are many suicides of older service members or people who have just retired or separated. I can speak to this a little. I am having a hard time dealing with people I meet out and about. I am lucky I do not need to work to get by. What passes as "management" at many places is pathetic. No honor, integrity, or humility. I have been re-wired in the military and have no desire to re-re-wire myself to come into phase with what's out in the civilian world. I will smile and be polite but I am not playing the game. I fear some older individuals do not survive this culture shock.

I pray the commander of the ship get's a hold of the situation ASAP but I know he is not the only one struggling to find an answer.

I see this way too often. The problem is not the children, it is our society, and the way their parents have allowed our society to impact and control the children.

The impact of children growing up with more interaction with a virtual world that is nearly pure fantasy, than with actual interaction in the real world, makes for a mind set that cannot process or accept reality.

When I say children I am speaking of folk as old as 28 years old. The level of maturity of most young adults hangs somewhere in the 12 to 13 year old range.

I wish I could tell you about my most recent case. All I can tell you is that it involved a young adult that was very intelligent, but had very poor social skills, was way too trusting of information obtained from the internet, and a distorted view of reality.

The majority of young adults claim a diagnosis of PTSD, depression, anxiety, OCD, and or bi-polar. (1) Almost all of them are on some kind of mood altering drug and has, or has had, an issue with substance abuse.

They are in for a really rough ride, when their parents are no longer alive, or no longer able to provide for them.(2) It is sad what we have done to our children. All because we believed a bunch of lies and garbage poured out from the media, the internet, and a severely corrupt system.

I fear it may indeed soon be TEOTWAWKI, it just seems that it will have an alternate ending.

1. I have been informed by some nameless offspring that "now" is the toughest time there has ever been for a generation. Of course I asked if they could expand on that a little. Provide some evidence of this hardship because now I am curious. There was a litany of C19, lockdowns, inflation, etc. I agreed those are some challenges but what about all the other challenges which generations have faced throughout history? Like world wars, international depressions complete with soup lines, civil strife of the 60's, maybe the civil war in the US, the black plague, Attila the Hun, etc. Nope. None of those things are more hard on young folks. What do you say to that level of .... I don't know what. 

2. I lose sleep over this. 

[ABNARTY]

I honestly believe they need to start drawing down our armed forces and raising the pay of people fit to remain.

I think new physical standards should be established and strictly enforced.  I don't think we need all the Top Brass.

I think if a Service Member is 'put out' their slot should be permanently closed.

I think they need to look at what a unit should consist of (in the Army it was called a TO&E or Table of Organization and Equipment).  If they're falling short, break the unit up and re-distribute the assets.  If a squad of Soldiers consists of less than two complete teams ... If a platoon consists of less than four squads ... cut both the officers and senior NCOs who are supposed to be in charge all the way up through the ranks to the 4-Star level.  Just cut 'em and be done with it.

When you're done cutting you'll have a stronger and more focused workforce.  Anyone fails Anything ... they're gone ... and they won't be around to drag down standards anymore.

All the practice of being diverse ... or the expectation of treating someone with Dignity and Respect (when neither have been earned) ... can go right out the window.  It'll be nothing other than, "Here's the mission.  Let's go accomplish it."

I go to your church on this. I am the guy in the Amen corner. 

I would offer something else for your consideration. The size of the DoD versus the number of actual trigger pullers. In a few decades, I watched the number of DoD civilians and contractors come to dwarf uniformed personnel. The budget has increased dramatically but the grunts on the ground have shrunk and their pay/benefits grow less than inflation. 

Meanwhile, the depth of bureaucracy that does not defend anything (other than their share of the budget) is staggering. Contractors? Don't get me started. 

How did the personnel who ran the newly minted Pentagon all fit in the building (WWII time frame) when the military was the largest it has ever been by far? Now, the fighting force has shrunk 80%-90% since then yet the Pentagon can't hold all the folks needed to "run the show". They need annexes all over DC. What does that say? 

I'll shut up now.

[ABNARTY]

There are tons of awareness classes and training. Chains of Command have probably never been more understanding of the problem. Yet, service members are committing suicide at much higher rates than I have witnessed since I went in in the early 90's. No one culprit has been determined. 

IMHO, I think it has something more to do with the state of society than the military itself. Or maybe just the juxtaposition of the two. Not sure. 

What is expected of you in the military has stayed rather static over the years but what is considered OK in civilian life has drifted much farther away. The contrast may be part of the problem. 

I am not saying young folks are too soft, then they self destruct when they put on the uniform because adult things are required of them immediately. But I am convinced it has something to do with the chasm between expectations. 

I am convinced more than ever it is critical to raise kids/young adults a certain way in order to make solid adults. That requires a coordinated effort between family, school, church if it's in the picture, and the community. Kids need to be exposed to multigenerational influences. When schools expect nothing of you and teach you nothing, you spend all day on 4Chan, you are not involved with people in the community around you, guess what? You have had zero opportunity to develop important coping skills.

There are many suicides of older service members or people who have just retired or separated. I can speak to this a little. I am having a hard time dealing with people I meet out and about. I am lucky I do not need to work to get by. What passes as "management" at many places is pathetic. No honor, integrity, or humility. I have been re-wired in the military and have no desire to re-re-wire myself to come into phase with what's out in the civilian world. I will smile and be polite but I am not playing the game. I fear some older individuals do not survive this culture shock.

I pray the commander of the ship get's a hold of the situation ASAP but I know he is not the only one struggling to find an answer.

Very well said. You make some great points! I'm not sure either, but do agree with all you said. I grew up in a military disciplined family and when I went off to boot camp I thought it was a joke; meaning for me it was a walk in the park. My whole time in I never once contemplated suicide no matter the situations. Now, when I got out that was a culture shock and did require some therapy sessions. After a few years working for big corporate America one of the prime differences I noticed was there was NO camaraderie. None, no backup, every man for himself. That's what I've always missed the most. Gone, even amongst co-worker friends some turned into backstabbers over stupid emotional shit. Send me, send me back to sea I use to daydream at work. Oh well, but I somehow prevailed in the rat race.

Prevailing can be done. And I'm sure you are doing very well for yourself. 

But I agree on the work environment. For me, it doesn't exist. My personal compass is seemingly out 180 degrees from folks I have ran into. Makes me question myself.

[Snarl]

I'll shut up now.

Seeing those words almost made me fall out of my chair laughing.

I find myself ending conversation with those words far too often these days.

[Snarl]

I need to find that essay again.

Please share if you do.

Dmitry Orlov

Very interesting. The dude's sharp as a tack. Thanks for the lead on him.

Did you see his Reddit AMA?