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+--- Thread: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont (/thread-6157.html)
Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - GeauxHomeLittleD - 08-20-2020
Quote:And so it begins....
- Starting this week, 120 Germans will receive a form of universal basic income every month for three years.
- The volunteers will get monthly payments of €1,200, or about $1,400, as part of a study testing a universal basic income.
- The study will compare the experiences of the 120 volunteers with 1,380 people who do not receive the payments.
- About 140,000 people have helped fund the study through donations.
- The concept of universal basic income has gained traction in recent years, and Finland tested a form of it in 2017.
- Supporters say it would reduce inequality and improve well-being, while opponents argue it would be too expensive and discourage work.
First Canada and now Germany. The Progressives and Liberals are already screaming for this in the US so if this goes well enough to expand the program you KNOW that if Biden beats Trump we will be heading down the same route- and if THAT happens we are officially screwed without courtesy of lubricant!
LINK 1
LINK 2
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - ChiefD - 08-20-2020
This is pretty interesting. The fact that there are only 120 people is kind of telling. I don’t think they want to get anyone’s hopes up or anything.
Even as liberal as I am, I don’t see a universal basic income as something that would work, at least not in the United States. How would it be paid for? With people getting that, many would choose not to work at all and we would have critical shortages in workers.
I mean, outwardly it sounds wonderful, but I think that would make our country’s problems worse. The money will have to come from somewhere, something essential that will cripple a lot of the country.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - beez - 08-20-2020
![[Image: MOGOXcD.gif]](https://i.imgur.com/MOGOXcD.gif)
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - NightskyeB4Dawn - 08-20-2020
We did an experiment years ago, it is was in some kind of camp. I don't remember the exact details, but it was to prove a point.
Everyone in the group was set up in groups. Each group was given a different sum of money. We had to spend the day bartering with each other. The goal being to obtain what we needed, and at the end of the day to have some of the money left over.
The weird thing was that in the end, the ones that had the most money, ended up with more than twice the amount they started with, while those with the least amount of money always ran out before the end of the day.
They left the bank unattended during the lunch break. I stole a good amount of the money. So I had ten times the amount I started with. I knew I would be disqualified, but thought it was funny, so I did it anyway. I found out that I had actually won, because they said that with every session, someone always ends up either robbing the bank or stealing from it.
So in the end, those with all the money will still have all the money. We will just give it all back to them.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - ABNARTY - 08-20-2020
I believe there are those, through no fault of their own, would probably need some assistance to get by. Be it $1,400 or another sum. No problem with that.
I also believe there are many, many more who would abuse this. The incentive to do nothing and still maintain an income is too much for them. No amount of money per month would ever be enough for this folks.
How does an inefficient government bureaucracy tell the difference and ensure the money gets to the right people? I have no freekin' clue.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - GeauxHomeLittleD - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 02:48 AM)ChiefD Wrote: This is pretty interesting. The fact that there are only 120 people is kind of telling. I don’t think they want to get anyone’s hopes up or anything.
Even as liberal as I am, I don’t see a universal basic income as something that would work, at least not in the United States. How would it be paid for? With people getting that, many would choose not to work at all and we would have critical shortages in workers.
I mean, outwardly it sounds wonderful, but I think that would make our country’s problems worse. The money will have to come from somewhere, something essential that will cripple a lot of the country.
At least they are keeping the experiment small for now. The only way I can see a UBI working in literally ANY country is if that country had a major national income. There have been several UBI experiments but no countries have a guaranteed national UBI for all- the only nations that have for a short period of time were Mongolia and Iran but they no longer have it.
The only way to pay for a UBI is to tax the Hell out of those who actually stay working to pay for those who don't, so what is the incentive here? If the govt takes half of your pay in taxes many would end up making the same or even less than those who are not working so why wouldn't any sane person choose to get paid for staying home?
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - hounddoghowlie - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 02:27 AM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote:Quote:And so it begins....
- Starting this week, 120 Germans will receive a form of universal basic income every month for three years.
- The volunteers will get monthly payments of €1,200, or about $1,400, as part of a study testing a universal basic income.
- The study will compare the experiences of the 120 volunteers with 1,380 people who do not receive the payments.
- About 140,000 people have helped fund the study through donations.
- The concept of universal basic income has gained traction in recent years, and Finland tested a form of it in 2017.
- Supporters say it would reduce inequality and improve well-being, while opponents argue it would be too expensive and discourage work.
First Canada and now Germany. The Progressives and Liberals are already screaming for this in the US so if this goes well enough to expand the program you KNOW that if Biden beats Trump we will be heading down the same route- and if THAT happens we are officially screwed without courtesy of lubricant!
LINK 1
LINK 2
it won't be long before their government will be saying the same thing that our senate is saying.
at 1200 bucks a month, plus all the other freebies, nobody will want to go out and find a job.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - Antisthenes - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 02:48 AM)ChiefD Wrote: This is pretty interesting. The fact that there are only 120 people is kind of telling. I don’t think they want to get anyone’s hopes up or anything.
Even as liberal as I am, I don’t see a universal basic income as something that would work, at least not in the United States. How would it be paid for? With people getting that, many would choose not to work at all and we would have critical shortages in workers.
I mean, outwardly it sounds wonderful, but I think that would make our country’s problems worse. The money will have to come from somewhere, something essential that will cripple a lot of the country.
I actually believe that once peoples basic needs are met, crime drops and people aŕe allowed to express their innate creativity. I believe most are industrious but struggle circumvents that inclination and it becomes replaced with lack and fear. So yes, I am watching with great interest. Particularly since it's Germany. I mean, the locals sweep their streets without compensation because....well, they're German. Lol
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - GeauxHomeLittleD - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 03:19 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: We did an experiment years ago, it is was in some kind of camp. I don't remember the exact details, but it was to prove a point.It takes money to make money, or so we've all been told. A lot of times though the difference between those who stay in the red and those who keep their heads above the waterline is self- discipline. Our 2 oldest have about the same income and both have one child each. The oldest one blows money impulsively and is always broke and begging for financial help, the other is doing well even though she has almost twice as much in expenses. Until we can write people checks that bestow common sense on them even UBI isn't going to help.
Everyone in the group was set up in groups. Each group was given a different sum of money. We had to spend the day bartering with each other. The goal being to obtain what we needed, and at the end of the day to have some of the money left over.
The weird thing was that in the end, the ones that had the most money, ended up with more than twice the amount they started with, while those with the least amount of money always ran out before the end of the day.
They left the bank unattended during the lunch break. I stole a good amount of the money. So I had ten times the amount I started with. I knew I would be disqualified, but thought it was funny, so I did it anyway. I found out that I had actually won, because they said that with every session, someone always ends up either robbing the bank or stealing from it.
So in the end, those with all the money will still have all the money. We will just give it all back to them.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - beez - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 04:31 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: I actually believe that once peoples basic needs are met, crime drops and people aŕe allowed to express their innate creativity.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - Antisthenes - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 04:37 AM)beez Wrote:(08-20-2020, 04:31 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: I actually believe that once peoples basic needs are met, crime drops and people aŕe allowed to express their innate creativity.
Oh beez, don't be so jaded! Wrap your head around a little hope, hon. It won't hurt, I promise. (- ;
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - F2d5thCav - 08-20-2020
@"GeauxHomeLittleD"
Thanks Geaux. Be interesting to see how it works out for the Vaterland.
Cheers
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - Snarl - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 04:37 AM)beez Wrote:(08-20-2020, 04:31 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: I actually believe that once peoples basic needs are met, crime drops and people aŕe allowed to express their innate creativity.
A simple wealth re-distribution scheme. The majority of the hand-outs will wind up in cities ... where it will then be hovered up by corporate chain stores.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - Sol - 08-20-2020
They are talking about this 'solution' here in Canada and I think it's just a bad idea. Here's why:
As the economy here stopped for three months, the Canadian government offered assistance for those who lost their jobs. The Canada Emergency Response Benefit; $2000 a month for months, it just stopped this August - the final payments issued.
That benefit was available to students, workers who lost their jobs due to covid hitting their places of employment and to those who are independent workers, that have their own businesses.
The problem is that people that received it, students in particular, did not go back to work when some work was being available again, preferring to stay home and collect free money.
Restaurants, bars and so many others more that did need minimal staff to survive had seen those staff disappear, due to the benefit.
And then the frauds...hundreds of thousands of cases of fraudulent benefit payments.
Which WE will end up paying back in taxes. Only fools think that it was 'free' money.
A minimal universal basic income would only encourage the lazy, the potheads and benefit the fraudsters. And how does one manage such a thing?
It would almost have to be a person to person type of investigating to see if one needs to apply for it. Which will never happen.
It's not a good idea.
.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - BIAD - 08-20-2020
Promissory notes of an agreed worth are issued for the use of physical and mental labour, anything else is
free paper that will only create a dependency. The concept of earning something via self-responsibility and
a self-reliance are being eroded behind of a banner of 'We Care For You'.
Unfortunately, Star Trek was fiction.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - Snarl - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 12:41 PM)Sol Wrote: Which WE will end up paying back in taxes.
And there's your real problem. Gooberment's hands in your pockets.
If things blow during this election cycle (and they might) ... the laws on the books aren't gonna mean a damn thing. And, if a new way of government emerges (which it likely will), I'm going to belly-shoot any motherfucker who gives voice to the idea that my pay (or anyone's) can be taxed. I'm not blind to any clever scheming either ... BOOM!! ... right in the belly.
That ain't Big Talk there either. I've got nothing better to do with what's left of me.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - GeauxHomeLittleD - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 12:41 PM)Sol Wrote: A minimal universal basic income would only encourage the lazy, the potheads and benefit the fraudsters. And how does one manage such a thing?
.
Hey, not all of us lazy potheads want or expect a free lunch, although free dessert would be lovely!
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - Sol - 08-20-2020
(08-20-2020, 01:57 PM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote:(08-20-2020, 12:41 PM)Sol Wrote: A minimal universal basic income would only encourage the lazy, the potheads and benefit the fraudsters. And how does one manage such a thing?
.
Hey, not all of us lazy potheads want or expect a free lunch, although free dessert would be lovely!
Apologies.
Our welfare system here in Canada is being used and abused. I've seen lazy asses benefit from it while enjoying their time on boats, while camping, having parties, name it.
They work under the table while collecting from the gubment.
I don't have a problem with a social system that would help the needy; for example, the mother of 3 whose husband just walked out. What is she supposed to do to get back up? Give her more and cut these leeches is my opinion.
The sick, the elderly, the handicapped, the mentally ill? Give them more and cut the leeches is my opinion.
But to do that, it would have to be a case by case evaluation, which they will never do, bureaucracy and all of that...
A universal free money program on top of it? Hell no.
So, free dessert, yes.
Free money, no.
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - F2d5thCav - 08-20-2020
Quote:They work under the table while collecting from the gubment.
That's all over Europe as well. One of those unmentioned problems.
Cheers
RE: Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a mont - PLOTUS - 08-20-2020
This basic income is a contradiction, an oymoron. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. Print enough fiat money and 'goods' are more valuable than money. Money becomes worthless and when the supply runs out without replenishment.... then what. Without work, you will starve. That is Biblical. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 Even as a gatherer, without labor you will starve.
There are entirely too many brain addled people in positions of power (parasites) trying to sell this pyramid scheeme in trade for votes. One person describe to me how this can sustain itself........ take all the time you need......