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+--- Thread: It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... (/thread-4743.html)
It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... - Ninurta - 08-20-2019
So.
On 4 September, this year, The House of Representatives has stated it's intent to reconvene early, in order to take up the "gun violence" question and pass laws regarding it. It just so happens, coincidentally, that also on 4 September, I'm going to find myself with far too much time on my hands... but I digress.
So far, the stated intent is to pass laws involving more stringent background checks, to pass laws banning "high capacity" magazines, laws to prevent people who are convicted of MISDEMEANOR "hate crimes" from buying guns, and a bill to incentivize "red flag laws" in the individual states.
Some days later, they plan to convene to address the "assault weapon" issue separately. Here's a hint: the Second Amendment was designed SPECIFICALLY to protect "weapons of war" in citizen hands. Confiscation of them is what got America started as an independent nation, free from British rule, to begin with.
The British Monarchy did much the same to America a couple hundred years ago. There is an article about it on the internet here
a few excerpts from that article:
Quote:Import ban on firearms and gunpowder
1774-75 confiscation of firearms and gunpowder
...
"It was these events that changed a situation of political tension into a shooting war."
...
"Before dawn on September 1, 1774, 260 of Gage's Redcoats sailed up the Mystic River and seized hundreds of barrels of powder from the Charlestown powder house."
That was the 18th century equivalent of banning "high capacity ammunition feeding devices". If you can't feed your gun, all you have is an expensive paperweight.
To continue:
Quote:"Governor Gage directed the Redcoats to begin general, warrantless searches for arms and ammunition. According to the Boston Gazette, of all General Gage's offenses, "what most irritated the People" was "seizing their Arms and Ammunition.""
...
Oct 19, 1774 "King George III and his ministers blocked importation of arms and ammunition to America. Read literally, the order merely required a permit to export arms or ammunition from Great Britain to America. In practice, no permits were granted."
...
"Meanwhile, Benjamin Franklin was masterminding the surreptitious import of arms and ammunition from the Netherlands, France, and Spain."
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"The British government was not, in a purely formal sense, attempting to abolish the Americans' common law right of self-defense. Yet in practice, that was precisely what the British were attempting. First, by disarming the Americans, the British were attempting to make the practical exercise of the right of personal self-defense much more difficult. Second, and more fundamentally, the Americans made no distinction between self-defense against a lone criminal or against a criminal government. To the Americans, and to their British Whig ancestors, the right of self-defense necessarily implied the right of armed self-defense against tyranny."
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"The American War of Independence began on April 19, 1775, when 700 Redcoats under the command of Major John Pitcairn left Boston to seize American arms at Lexington and Concord."
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(The powder had been moved for safe-keeping. - Ninurta)
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"When the British began to withdraw back to Boston, things got much worse for them. Armed Americans were swarming in from nearby towns. They would soon outnumber the British 2:1. Although some of the Americans cohered in militia units, a great many fought on their own, taking sniper positions wherever opportunity presented itself. Only British reinforcements dispatched from Boston saved the British expedition from annihilation--and the fact that the Americans started running out of ammunition and gun powder."
...
21 April 1775 - "in Virginia, royal authorities confiscated 20 barrels of gunpowder from the public magazine in Williamsburg and destroyed the public firearms there by removing their firing mechanisms. In response to complaints, manifested most visibly by the mustering of a large independent militia led by Patrick Henry, Governor Dunmore delivered a legal note promising to pay restitution."
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"The government in London dispatched more troops and three more generals to America: William Howe, Henry Clinton, and John Burgoyne. The generals arrived on May 25, 1775, with orders from Lord Dartmouth to seize all arms in public armories, or which had been "secretly collected together for the purpose of aiding Rebellions.""
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"At the June 17 Battle of Bunker Hill, the militia held its ground against the British regulars and inflicted heavy casualties, until they ran out of gunpowder and were finally driven back. (Had Gage not confiscated the gunpowder from the Charleston Powder House the previous September, the Battle of Bunker Hill probably would have resulted in an outright defeat of the British.)"
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"On June 19, Gage renewed his demand that the Bostonians surrender their arms, and he declared that anyone found in possession of arms would be deemed guilty of treason."
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"On July 6, 1775, the Continental Congress adopted the Declaration of Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms, written by Thomas Jefferson and the great Pennsylvania lawyer John Dickinson. Among the grievances were General Gage's efforts to disarm the people of Lexington, Concord, and Boston."
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"As the war went on, the British always remembered that without gun control, they could never control America. In 1777, with British victory seeming likely, Colonial Undersecretary William Knox drafted a plan entitled "What Is Fit to Be Done with America?" To ensure that there would be no future rebellions, "[t]he Militia Laws should be repealed and none suffered to be re-enacted, & the Arms of all the People should be taken away, . . . nor should any Foundery or manufactuary of Arms, Gunpowder, or Warlike Stores, be ever suffered in America, nor should any Gunpowder, Lead, Arms or Ordnance be imported into it without Licence . . . .""
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"To the Americans of the Revolution and the Founding Era, the theory of some late-20th Century courts that the Second Amendment is a "collective right" and not an "individual right" might have seemed incomprehensible. The Americans owned guns individually, in their homes. They owned guns collectively, in their town armories and powder houses. They would not allow the British to confiscate their individual arms, nor their collective arms; and when the British tried to do both, the Revolution began. The Americans used their individual arms and their collective arms to fight against the confiscation of any arms. Americans fought to provide themselves a government that would never perpetrate the abuses that had provoked the Revolution."
And yet here we are...
Quote:"Laws disarming people who have proven themselves to be a particular threat to public safety are not implicated by the 1774-76 experience. In contrast, laws that aim to disarm the public at large are precisely what turned a political argument into the American Revolution."
So we see what the historical record has to say about what happens in America when disarmament is instituted. As the article points out, going at least as far back as ancient Carthage, disarmament is a precursor to wholesale slaughter - the Romans insisted the Carthaginians surrender their weapons, and when they did, the Romans started taking Carthaginians right out of the equation. Word War II, and the Nazi disarmament of their victims, just shows that it doesn't change much. Pol Pot did the same thing in Cambodia. Stalin did the same in the Soviet Union. In every case, the people who were disarmed were slaughtered and enslaved... by their own governments.
That lesson is not lost on Americans.
Now, all of the proposed measures have been put into effect before in America, individually, with no net decrease in street violence. It is for that reason that I am convinced this is NOT an effort to "make America safer". "High capacity" (really STANDARD capacity) magazines have been outlawed before, with no effect. Ditto "assault weapons". Misdemeanors banning people from buying guns has also already been done - never mind the long-standing principle that America only yanks citizenship from felons - now another class of misdemeanor will disenfranchise them as well, and a really nebulous class at that!
What is a "misdemeanor hate crime"? What is a HATE crime? doesn't that imply there is such a thing as a "love crime"? Who LOVES their victim? ALL crimes are "hate crimes"! There is some serious potential for abuse in this and the "red flag" laws proposed, and that is EXACTLY what the left is hoping for. Suppose the crack-head (or Leftist - same thing) down the street decides to rob me? All they have to do is report me for a "misdemeanor hate crime" that they made up on the fly, or accuse me of being "unstable", and WHOOSH - in comes the government to disarm me... then the bastards have free reign (or at least think they do) to run roughshod over me with impunity. Not gonna happen on my watch.
Kristen Gillebrand has come up with a hare-brained scheme to "buy back" guns. That hasn't worked out very well in it's various attempts at implementation here, either. Who, in their right mind, is going to sell away their means of defense? That idea, like the "high capacity" magazine ban, would have to have more teeth than they had before... meaning "mandatory" prefaced before the criminal "legislation", and / or confiscation, and barring "grandfathering" for items already in circulation.
And that is where "resolve" comes into the picture.
I'm not advocating outright rebellion. that often ends poorly, especially in totalitarian states as the American Left would have us become. What I advocate, at least initially, is non-compliance. As Nancy Reagan famously said, just say "no". Don't willingly give your means of defense up - it is insanity to do so. Their only choice then is to come to YOU to take what is yours, to confiscate YOUR rightful property.
And THAT is where the war starts. Make them pay dearly for everything they take - money is not enough. Anyone, ANYONE AT ALL, entering your premises to take what is not theirs is a "home invader", a common thief, and should be treated as such. There are 300 million guns in America, and many billions of rounds of ammunition. There are not enough people in America to take them all if their owners and operators draw the line.
Attention leftists and their minions: you will never, EVER, disarm me. You will never, EVER take away my means of defending myself as long as I still draw breath. It's a sad day when you make yourself the enemy that I must defend against. Sad for you, and sad for me as well. The only way you can disarm me is to kill me, and I promise it will not be a good day for you and many of yours when you come to do it. I will not "go quietly into that good night". It will be a sad day for the both of us, because I am sure to die as well, but I have my children and grand children to think of, and the world they will have to inhabit. I am expendable. I always have been. they are not, and the one thing I am still willing to die for is their future. It's the only thing I've ever been willing to die for, and it still is. I just have a lot less left to lose now in that fight. My best days are gone, and I'm ready to leave this plane whenever you are.
Remember the powder I mentioned above that was spirited away for safekeeping at Lexington and Concord? The powder that Pitcairn never got to seize, because it wasn't there when he got there? Yeah. it would do you well to remember that. I know where there are entire buses and connex containers of arms, ammunition, explosives, and various ordnance buried around the US. I'm not the only one who knows where they are. Once you've got me killed, your troubles will have only begun. Just like that powder came back to bite the Redcoats in the ass, so will those cached stores of ordinance come back to bite YOU in the ass. Hard.
I am no danger to you until you make yourself a danger to me and mine. When you do, I solemnly promise that I will suddenly become far more dangerous than you can even begin to imagine. Mere guns are just the beginning of it.
There are many, many more like me.
So come get you some.
.
RE: It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... - BIAD - 08-20-2019
Even though I represent the British on this website, I have to begrudgingly endorse Ninurta's
conclusions!! If the 'Yanks' had given-up their guns back then, we-Limeys would be in the
White House right now!
That's how control over people works.
It's not the guns that cause harm, it's the ones pulling the trigger that cause the problem.
If uncertain, look at London's current chaos. It's not the knives that are magically moving
around and causing the mayhem, it's the lack of self-standards that are responsible.
Crime will always adhere to using such action and any sane person knows this.
If an intruder isn't climbing in through your window at night, you have no reason to
locate your firearm in defence. Any reasonably-minded politician knows this.
A gun can't terrorise a household. A gun can't grab a person for nefarious reasons and a gun
can't visit a school to wreak horror on the pupils. Anyone with a sense of morality knows this
too.
Not wanting to harm each other in a civilised environment is the real dilemma, the weapon to
do so is truly immaterial.
RE: It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... - Ninurta - 04-26-2021
Well!
The Stimulus payments certainly worked out well for the Democrats and their gun-grabbin' proclivities!
Quote:March 2021 also marked a new single-month record for the number of National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which also marked the 15th consecutive month of record-breaking background checks.
According to FBI statistics released Thursday, 4,691,738 background checks were performed in March this year, crushing the previous single-month record by more than 300,000.
The jump in background checks could be a result of gun buyers using their stimulus checks to purchase firearms.
The thrust of the article was not stimulus gun purchases, but rather the fact that the SCOTUS has finally agreed to hear another Second Amendment case, the first they have agreed to in over a decade, since DC vs. Heller.
Source Link
The bit of the article I have quoted above does raise a few questions: 1) did these purchasers figure out where they are going to get ammunition to feed their guns yet? and 2) is this spike in purchases going to exacerbate the ammunition shortage even more, and drive ammo prices up even further beyond their exorbitant current level?
West Virginia just passed new legislation to make itself an even more firearms-friendly state, this time to induce manufacturers to locate there, thus providing a much needed source of firearms AND some much needed jobs for that impoverished state. One can hope that ammunition manufacturers will notice that and build new manufacturing facilities in WV, and perhaps make a dent in the current shortage of ammo in America by increasing the supply side of the supply and demand equation.
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RE: It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... - Finspiracy - 04-26-2021
@"Ninurta" How does this work?
Okay the ammo price is sky high now.
I do not know anything about guns or ammo. But hey, law of supply and demand, right? That should automatically regulate the price of EVERYTHING?
Am i missing some kind of a point here?
RE: It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... - Ninurta - 04-27-2021
(04-26-2021, 10:33 PM)Finspiracy Wrote: @"Ninurta" How does this work?
Okay the ammo price is sky high now.
I do not know anything about guns or ammo. But hey, law of supply and demand, right? That should automatically regulate the price of EVERYTHING?
Am i missing some kind of a point here?
More guns in circulation = a higher demand for ammo, but without a concurrent increase of production, A.K.A. "supply". That causes a rise in demand, and so price. Furthermore, BidenHarris and Congress' profligate spending spree is causing an increase of inflation, thereby raising prices more, but without any increase in actual value. On top of all those factors is what I can only describe as greed among middle-men. For example, Tulammo ammunition, produced in Russia at the Tula Arsenal, has doubled in price. I'm positive that the Tula Arsenal is not getting any of that extra money, so WHO is pocketing it and whistling all the way to the bank?
These are not trivial price increases, either, Where groceries have shot up, in some areas, with a 30% price increase since BidenHarris usurped office, ammunition increases here have far outstripped that. Last June, 10 months ago, I purchased 9mm Parabellum ammo for $17.99 per box of 50 rounds. Now, that same ammo, same manufacturer, same quantity, same bullet weight, same packaging, same everything, is selling for $60.00 a box, for a slightly more than 300% price increase, in just 10 months. I bought 5.56x45 NATO ammo, US M855, for about 0.36 per round, but now the same ammunition, same manufacturer, same packaging, etc is selling for $1.62 per round. That is a 450% price hike, in just 10 months.
Just think if your rent were at 500.00 dollars (or Euros) right now, but you could expect it to be 2250.00 by next January, for the same house, and you'll begin to comprehend the magnitude of the ammo price increases.
With more and more guns going into circulation, but no one starting up any new ammunition plants to feed those guns, the supply of ammo will be spread out over more and more guns, making less and less available, which will increase demand and cause a corresponding rise in prices. Now factor in the results of the runaway inflation from the BidenHarris Regime's uncontrolled spending spree and money printing to cover that spree, and you can see perhaps how already high prices will be much further exacerbated.
Don't even get me started on those greedy-assed Middle-Men.
Maybe you can begin to see why I have started making my own ammunition for Betsy from scratch, all the way from cap through powder to ball. Whatever they throw out, however they increase prices, I can still feed her out of the woods, so she will be able to feed me out of the woods.
Piss on greed, leftist profligacy, and more ammo buyers without more ammo manufacturers. I'll do for myself, and they can all go pound salt up their asses.
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RE: It's Gun-grabbin' Season Again... - 727Sky - 04-27-2021
There has been an ammo shortage for the last 12+ years depending on caliber. Even the lowly .22 was hard to get. Stuff I used to pay around 200$ for is now over 600$ from what I have been told.
I wish I would have kept the ammo I had stockpiled as of today I could have tripled my investment... Back in the day I was burning through several hundred rounds of 9mm, 45 ACP, 762x39 and 5.56.. When I stopped shooting and moved it was like getting a pay raise !
Knowing me I would probably have just kept the ammo for a rainy day... !