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+--- Thread: So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? (/thread-1685.html)
So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? - BIAD - 02-18-2017
City wants to give free council tax to people who film dog foulers.
'People who take photos of dog owners leaving mess on the streets may escape
council tax for a year under proposals in Liverpool.
People in Liverpool could be allowed to escape paying council tax if they catch
dog owners who do not pick up their pet's mess.
Mayor Joe Anderson has said the idea could help clean up the city's streets - and
he has suggested a resident could get free council tax for a year if they filmed
videos or took photos which helped identify irresponsible dog owners, as well
as fly-tippers and litterbugs.
Mr Anderson said: "Can we reward those residents that let us know who is
fly-tipping, whose dogs are fouling our streets and or are not recycling properly?
"Should we look at making it compulsory to recycle?
"We need to look seriously at these measures and more to encourage and
reward civic pride.
"I have asked officers to come up with a series of enforcement measures that we
can use to drive the required change in behaviour in those residents that fail to
responsibly manage their waste."
Liverpool Greens leader Tom Crone said the policy could be problematic: "It could
be very costly at a time when there is immense pressure on council finances.
"It also turns residents against residents and this is an unhealthy precedent to set.
The relevant authorities should take responsibility for enforcing laws."
Renate Samson, chief executive of Big Brother Watch, she said: "I'm not convinced
that encouraging people to spy, monitor, track and follow our neighbours, because
they're conducting themselves in a less than proper way, is the right way to go about it.
"I think we can improve civic pride and community spirit in a far less intrusive fashion."..'
SOURCE:
This is seen as a normal request these days and certainly in Europe.
Kids are asked to spy on their parents and neighbours are asked to watch for illegal
activity don by other neighbours.
1984.
RE: So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? - Mystic Wanderer - 02-18-2017
Quote: Kids are asked to spy on their parents and neighbours are asked to watch for illegal
activity don by other neighbours.
I don't know if kids are asked to spy on their parents, but I'm sure if they wanted to use something for blackmail to get their way, they'd do it.
As for the neighbors, yes, we call that the community neighborhood watchdog. Every block has a person who takes turns from house to house, so I've heard. I think that is mostly for towns and cities. I live in the country.
RE: So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? - BIAD - 02-18-2017
(02-18-2017, 10:21 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: ...I don't know if kids are asked to spy on their parents, but I'm sure if they wanted to
use something for blackmail to get their way, they'd do it.
As for the neighbors, yes, we call that the community neighborhood watchdog.
Every block has a person who takes turns from house to house, so I've heard.
I think that is mostly for towns and cities. I live in the country.
We have a Neighbourhood Watch Scheme here too, but this was in regards of
watching your neighbours to see if they're committing a crime like claiming
Government benefits whilst working.
It's not about proof or evidence, it's about assuming a crime and then reporting it.
...And the children's thing, Link: Another Link: And Another Link:
RE: So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? - DuckforcoveR - 02-19-2017
(02-18-2017, 10:21 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:Quote: Kids are asked to spy on their parents and neighbours are asked to watch for illegal
activity don by other neighbours.
I don't know if kids are asked to spy on their parents, but I'm sure if they wanted to use something for blackmail to get their way, they'd do it.
As for the neighbors, yes, we call that the community neighborhood watchdog. Every block has a person who takes turns from house to house, so I've heard. I think that is mostly for towns and cities. I live in the country.
I don't know if SPY is the word, but relying on "kids say the darnedest things" certainly fits the bill. My daughter is in school for the first year and we go to the first conferences to find every morning the kids were asked about their home, their parents, what they do, what they watch, etc. All innocent in a way, but man, CONTEXT is completely missing. Case in point:
"What did your parents do last night?" "They yelled at me for hitting my sister"
"Did they do anything else after you hit your sister?" "No, well Mommy chased me into the room with a wooden spoon and told me to put my jammies on"
"What did daddy do?" "Daddy was playing with his sugar"
"Why does daddy play with sugar?" "Because he says it makes him happy when breathes it in"
The context of course was that yes, she hit her sister. My better half is doing the dishes and pointed it at Maya while yelling "go get your jammies on!". After that I sat down to clean my KBOX vaper out, it just so happens that the first time my daughter saw me use it I thought it was easier to call it sugar than to explain it was a 100% VG e-liquid with a .6% nicotine level...So I just said "it's sugar honey, daddy's sugar and you don't ever touch it ok?"
Then there was the time I used to put my Moringa Powder in capsules that I bought on Amazon. 4 year old's can't elaborate on the green leafy stuff going into pills...
Then there was the time she caught me in the basement stringing my bow up for the first time in like 2 years, I probably shouldn't have said it's used to kill deer...although I'm sure the teachers understood there aren't actually any deer in my basement.
Then there was the time I was sick and binge watching TV which got written down as daddy watching TV all night drinking grownup stuff (she said "whats that for?" pointing at my NyQuil, I said "it's for drinking and it's for grownups")
Long story short, spying? Not necessarily, but they absolutely welcome their students to turn their parents in for anything.
RE: So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? - Mystic Wanderer - 02-19-2017
@"DuckforcoveR"
I'm surprised you didn't get a visit from DCS (Dept. of Children Services).
RE: So You Don't Think It's Orwell's 1984, huh? - BIAD - 02-19-2017
(02-19-2017, 01:07 AM)DuckforcoveR Wrote: ...I don't know if kids are asked to spy on their parents, but I'm sure if they wanted to use
something for blackmail to get their way, they'd do it..
...Long story short, spying? Not necessarily, but they absolutely welcome their students to
turn their parents in for anything...
It could be construed as spying for blackmail purposes, but I'd tend to believe that here
in the UK, it's mainly for job justification and societal control.
Put it another way, children are perceived as the vulnerable member of a household and
in a caring society, a Government department that has regional arms of that department
is set up to make sure the children of that country are kept safe.
Your task is to monitor the welfare of the children in your region and of course, that means
you have to know if such welfare is being upheld to a level condoned by the society that
you're serving... and getting paid from.
Criminals of all walks of life have children and so do families that are perceived as 'normal'
One is only deemed a criminal when held accountable by the authorities that 'rule' over the
society these family units and the peers they reside with.
Now how can you tell the difference when it comes to the concerns of the child in these
units...? It's easy to say that the criminals would wear burglar masks and carry bags with
'swag' scrawled on them, but life isn't really like that.
Successful and well-respected people commit crimes too and many times, these crimes take
place within the homes where monitoring cannot occur.
Most children enjoy being part of a group and with family-ties being accepted as the norm
from growing up within that family, a child in an education system needs other links to make
themselves feel secure within his-or-her group outside the family.
So to receive that feeling of praise from what is deemed as a superior -an adult teacher, a
youngster may answer a simple question that's put to them in a manner that a more cynical
or reality-hardened adult may perceive as something more sinister.
Now, if your job is to locate and hold accountable those who commit crimes within a domicile
and your only reasonable access is to use someone unaware of the reality of the crime being
performed by the adults that children trust, i.e parents and relations, can you take that chance
that what the kid is saying is wrong?
Will you still receive a salary for your neglect because you accepted the unusual -yet naive account
from what he tend to believe is an innocent child?
Is the child telling the truth or a harmless virtuous version of a truth that is in an adult world, deemed
a crime?
Remember, if you're right and the crime is stopped, you can feel 'good' because you've rescued an
innocent child from a place where they could be -or are being, effected by that crime.
Also, you receive praise from your superiors and as a child can attest, that makes you feel good.
But if you do nothing and it's later revealed that your manning of the walls was insufficient due to
your reasoning that a child was merely telling a straight-forward account of 'sugar' and other things,
then you've not only failed to make that child's life less vulnerable to the evils of the world, you're
answerable to your superiors and they -to theirs.
Either way, it's a terrible indictment on parenthood in general considering that an action viewed
by outsiders in a possibly skewed manner, can tear a family apart because of the reliance of a poorly
-equipped witness and an eager employee of a organisation that knows it has to show something
for it's existence.
Don't get me wrong, some parents are total ass-holes and the children of these idiots can be placed
in a lifestyle that brings the love and security they need. But I believe investigation to make children's
lives better should be just that, investigation. Not intrusion for pay.