(10-11-2022, 11:10 AM)Finspiracy Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 10:54 AM)Brotherman Wrote: Now I am curious, can donkeys really sin. I'm googling that shit.

I am not google. But i have plenty of opinions and even more useless time.

Sin is a concept invented by humans. Just like humans created religions as a tool to control the masses and promote war and violence and sexual perversions.

Therefore, a donkey can not sin, no matter what the donkey does.

Donkeys do not have what is called "agency" - the do not make conscious and informed  decisions. "Sin" is the willful decision to go against God, which donkeys cannot do, so donkeys are incapable of committing sin... which is why I think there will be more donkeys in heaven that there will be people there.

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(10-11-2022, 06:28 PM)Ninurta Wrote: Not only safe and effective, it also goes well with chips... no, not THOSE kind of chips!

I dunno man. Microchips might be a good idea. I sometimes enjoy chips. And warming them up in the microwave, could really enhance the flavor of the potato and the spices very nicely.

Next time i have the munchies, i am gonna try microchips.

(10-11-2022, 06:33 PM)Ninurta Wrote: Donkeys do not have what is called "agency" - the do not make conscious and informed  decisions. "Sin" is the willful decision to go against God, which donkeys cannot do, so donkeys are incapable of committing sin... which is why I think there will be more donkeys in heaven that there will be people there.



.

Is that so? Well, let's compare a donkey and a human being. How many nuclear bombs have donkeys made? How many nuclear bombs have humans made, with their "conscious and informed decisions" and "agency"?

How many oceans have donkeys polluted, how many have humans?

How many genocides have donkeys done, how many have humans?

How many reality TV shows have donkeys created, how many have humans?

You get my drift... If this is the "agency" Then it is an agency of despair and death, and nothing to be proud about.

Is sin really a willful decision to go against God? Sincere question. I thought my will has been like.. get batshit drunk, maybe gamble a little bit, insult some mind-controlled robot people online and stuff like that. The genuine will and intent was not to go against God. The genuine will and intent was to fill the needs of my endless hedonism. I think i have sin. A lot.

By the way, how do you know that donkeys are unable to willfully go against God? How do you know donkeys are not Gods themselves? Question everything!

(10-11-2022, 06:08 PM)Finspiracy Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 04:20 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: I would have been dead, or a vegetable, if I had not moved my head at just that second in just the right direction. I never saw it coming. It changed me.

Yes, it changed you. I know. Things of this nature are extremely profound.

When i was drunk and jaywalking, August of 2020, and got hit by a bus, due to me totally not giving a damn about the bus, and i broke my hip and arm and got bruises... It changed me.

I have always been a deep person. More a curse than a blessing. I am prone to overthinking and that causes anxiety and confusion. I could have been dead, or a vegetable. Instead, i was a prisoner of my own home for 3 months, intense physiotherapy like 8 times a day, learning to walk again. And then completely recovered. Why? That is what i want to know. That is what i always want to know, about everything. Why? It takes me a couple of minutes to write this post. During that time frame, me writing this post, somewhere, on this planet a perfectly good person dies or becomes a vegetable in an accident. And i am God damn scumbag. Why was i saved? Are there protective forces, like guardian Angels, who got my back? Or are there evil forces who want to keep me here to feed them with my mental suffering and struggle? Was i saved? What if i died and got sent directly to hell with crisis after crisis after crisis going on around me. Why am i writing this post? What am i trying to achieve with this post? Maybe i just want to be heard, or read in this case. Why am i even here? Why are you? What is the purpose of everything? Does any purpose even exist? Do i exist? And if so, Why?

I think that with all the massive, insane amounts of contemplating i do.. daily and nightly... whenever i reach an answer, the answer either sprouts 2 or more new questions, or the answer is faulty to begin with. I am the definition of confusion. And i want to know why.

Why? My Mother said that was one of the first words that ever came out of my mouth, and that I never stopped asking the question once it crossed my lips. She saved her change so she could buy me books to add and complete our encyclopedia collections. I spent an unusual amount of time in the local library, chasing answers to questions that others could not answer, for me. I spent hours in the Library of Congress, also searching for that elusive information. All those years later, and here I am, almost at the gate, and still asking, why?

Maybe that is the quest, searching to still the addiction for the knowing. Maybe as suggested in the novel "Ishmael", that the eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge infected us with the curse of ever searching for the why? but keeping us from the understanding required to quench the thirst of knowing. It might be why we look to those we deem to be wiser, more knowing, always hoping that someone will breach the fortress of the knowing and share that gift with us. All we keep finding is disappointment, because I believe that the answer is so simple  we just can't process what is right in front of our eyes. Or we don't want to see it, and likely don't want to know it. Plausible denial remains strong in our human psyche.

(10-11-2022, 07:10 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Why? My Mother said that was one of the first words that ever came out of my mouth, and that I never stopped asking the question once it crossed my lips. She saved her change so she could buy me books to add and complete our encyclopedia collections. I spent an unusual amount of time in the local library, chasing answers to questions that others could not answer, for me. I spent hours in the Library of Congress, also searching for that elusive information. All those years later, and here I am, almost at the gate, and still asking, why?

Maybe that is the quest, searching to still the addiction for the knowing. Maybe as suggested in the novel "Ishmael", that the eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge infected us with the curse of ever searching for the why? but keeping us from the understanding required to quench the thirst of knowing. It might be why we look to those we deem to be wiser, more knowing, always hoping that someone will breach the fortress of the knowing and share that gift with us. All we keep finding is disappointment, because I believe that the answer is so simple  we just can't process what is right in front of our eyes. Or we don't want to see it, and likely don't want to know it. Plausible denial remains strong in our human psyche.

That is a cute story. Eloquent also.

What if there was no need for the "why?" We just knew. Everything. I think that would involve a high risk of dying due to pure boredom. There would have been no need or will for me to make this thread. I would have already known everyone's replies beforehand. The fascination resides within the mystery.

(10-11-2022, 07:10 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 06:08 PM)Finspiracy Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 04:20 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: I would have been dead, or a vegetable, if I had not moved my head at just that second in just the right direction. I never saw it coming. It changed me.

Yes, it changed you. I know. Things of this nature are extremely profound.

When i was drunk and jaywalking, August of 2020, and got hit by a bus, due to me totally not giving a damn about the bus, and i broke my hip and arm and got bruises... It changed me.

I have always been a deep person. More a curse than a blessing. I am prone to overthinking and that causes anxiety and confusion. I could have been dead, or a vegetable. Instead, i was a prisoner of my own home for 3 months, intense physiotherapy like 8 times a day, learning to walk again. And then completely recovered. Why? That is what i want to know. That is what i always want to know, about everything. Why? It takes me a couple of minutes to write this post. During that time frame, me writing this post, somewhere, on this planet a perfectly good person dies or becomes a vegetable in an accident. And i am God damn scumbag. Why was i saved? Are there protective forces, like guardian Angels, who got my back? Or are there evil forces who want to keep me here to feed them with my mental suffering and struggle? Was i saved? What if i died and got sent directly to hell with crisis after crisis after crisis going on around me. Why am i writing this post? What am i trying to achieve with this post? Maybe i just want to be heard, or read in this case. Why am i even here? Why are you? What is the purpose of everything? Does any purpose even exist? Do i exist? And if so, Why?

I think that with all the massive, insane amounts of contemplating i do.. daily and nightly... whenever i reach an answer, the answer either sprouts 2 or more new questions, or the answer is faulty to begin with. I am the definition of confusion. And i want to know why.

Why? My Mother said that was one of the first words that ever came out of my mouth, and that I never stopped asking the question once it crossed my lips. She saved her change so she could buy me books to add and complete our encyclopedia collections. I spent an unusual amount of time in the local library, chasing answers to questions that others could not answer, for me. I spent hours in the Library of Congress, also searching for that elusive information. All those years later, and here I am, almost at the gate, and still asking, why?

Maybe that is the quest, searching to still the addiction for the knowing. Maybe as suggested in the novel "Ishmael", that the eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge infected us with the curse of ever searching for the why? but keeping us from the understanding required to quench the thirst of knowing. It might be why we look to those we deem to be wiser, more knowing, always hoping that someone will breach the fortress of the knowing and share that gift with us. All we keep finding is disappointment, because I believe that the answer is so simple  we just can't process what is right in front of our eyes. Or we don't want to see it, and likely don't want to know it. Plausible denial remains strong in our human psyche.

Here is the thing. the 10 commandments are specified for the direct people of abraham/jews/hebrews.
The rest of us are covered under the NT covenant of Grace,not laws. We only need to do 3 things Jesus asked non hebrews to do. The catholic church is handicapping itself by trying to be hebrews.
Jesus came to uphold the laws,just some have different laws to follow than others.

(10-11-2022, 07:20 PM)Finspiracy Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 07:10 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Why? My Mother said that was one of the first words that ever came out of my mouth, and that I never stopped asking the question once it crossed my lips. She saved her change so she could buy me books to add and complete our encyclopedia collections. I spent an unusual amount of time in the local library, chasing answers to questions that others could not answer, for me. I spent hours in the Library of Congress, also searching for that elusive information. All those years later, and here I am, almost at the gate, and still asking, why?

Maybe that is the quest, searching to still the addiction for the knowing. Maybe as suggested in the novel "Ishmael", that the eating from the fruit of the tree of knowledge infected us with the curse of ever searching for the why? but keeping us from the understanding required to quench the thirst of knowing. It might be why we look to those we deem to be wiser, more knowing, always hoping that someone will breach the fortress of the knowing and share that gift with us. All we keep finding is disappointment, because I believe that the answer is so simple  we just can't process what is right in front of our eyes. Or we don't want to see it, and likely don't want to know it. Plausible denial remains strong in our human psyche.

I think you can see a simulated version of that going on right now.

Too many people, especially on the internet, think they already know what everyone, knows, thinks, and what they are going to do.

Most people do not accept this new normal, but they are the silent majority. In the mean time. the inmates are running the insane asylum.


That is a cute story. Eloquent also.

What if there was no need for the "why?" We just knew. Everything. I think that would involve a high risk of dying due to pure boredom. There would have been no need or will for me to make this thread. I would have already known everyone's replies beforehand. The fascination resides within the mystery.

@"NightskyeB4Dawn"
FINALLY! Finally a healthy person calls them inmates, and not patients. "the inmates are running the insane asylum." This! Exactly this. Thank you!

I have been sentenced to insane asylum due to thought crimes, twice. And i learned, that if freedom is taken away, nothing remains. Nothing.

Quote:Most people do not accept this new normal, but they are the silent majority.

Are you sure? I think most people accept it. Or if not outright accept, then at least take it as something not to rebel against. Not to speak about. Just stay silent and obey, maybe it goes away mentality.

(10-11-2022, 07:49 PM)Finspiracy Wrote: @"NightskyeB4Dawn"
FINALLY! Finally a healthy person calls them inmates, and not patients. "the inmates are running the insane asylum." This! Exactly this. Thank you!

I have been sentenced to insane asylum due to thought crimes, twice. And i learned, that if freedom is taken away, nothing remains. Nothing.

Quote:Most people do not accept this new normal, but they are the silent majority.

Are you sure? I think most people accept it. Or if not outright accept, then at least take it as something not to rebel against. Not to speak about. Just stay silent and obey, maybe it goes away mentality.

The Silent Majority is deadly.

Mainly to itself.

(10-11-2022, 07:35 PM)yuppa Wrote: Here is the thing. the 10 commandments are specified for the direct people of abraham/jews/hebrews.

The rest of us are covered under the NT covenant of Grace,not laws. We only need to do 3 things Jesus asked non hebrews to do. The catholic church is handicapping itself by trying to be hebrews.

Jesus came to uphold the laws,just some have different laws to follow than others.

So basically, if i was a Christian, but not direct people of abraham/jews/hebrews, i could flip the bird at the 10 commandments, and Jesus was a cop?

And i thought the reason why catholic church is handicapping itself, is by being the largest organized sex crime syndicate in the world.

(10-11-2022, 06:47 PM)Finspiracy Wrote: Is that so? Well, let's compare a donkey and a human being. How many nuclear bombs have donkeys made? How many nuclear bombs have humans made, with their "conscious and informed decisions" and "agency"?

How many oceans have donkeys polluted, how many have humans?

How many genocides have donkeys done, how many have humans?

How many reality TV shows have donkeys created, how many have humans?

You get my drift... If this is the "agency" Then it is an agency of despair and death, and nothing to be proud about.

true enough, but what does any of that have to do with God? I don't see where any of it could be classified as "sin". Bad behavior, for sure, but not sin, as no gods are involved in it to sin against.

Quote:Is sin really a willful decision to go against God? Sincere question. I thought my will has been like.. get batshit drunk, maybe gamble a little bit, insult some mind-controlled robot people online and stuff like that. The genuine will and intent was not to go against God. The genuine will and intent was to fill the needs of my endless hedonism. I think i have sin. A lot.

Yes. "Sin" is willful rebellion against God. Animals cannot sin, because they do not posses agency. Even human children cannot sin before they have attained the age of reason, which differs from person to person. They cannot sin if they are unaware that their actions are sinful.

Quote:By the way, how do you know that donkeys are unable to willfully go against God? How do you know donkeys are not Gods themselves? Question everything!

Because they do not posses agency - they are unaware that what they do is wrong, even if it is. For example, a lion does not commit murder when it kills a human - killing is just a way of life for lions, and they do not know that what they are doing is "wrong", because it is not objectively wrong for them. It is just their nature.

.

(10-11-2022, 07:20 PM)Finspiracy Wrote: What if there was no need for the "why?" We just knew. Everything. I think that would involve a high risk of dying due to pure boredom. There would have been no need or will for me to make this thread. I would have already known everyone's replies beforehand. The fascination resides within the mystery.

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

1 Corinthians, 13:12, New International Version

The quest for wisdom is the essence of life in this realm. We will never attain it here, but still the compulsion continues, for as long as we do.

Likewise, the Ten Commandments are a goal to aspire to, but one we will never entirely attain. Their purpose is not to "lay down the law" per se, they are there to demonstrate that there are standards that we as mere mortals can never entirely live up to, to demonstrate the sinful nature of man, and his need for "salvation" from an external source. they are there, essentially, to show us that we cannot get to heaven on a technicality, that we cannot pick ourselves up to that level by grasping our own bootstraps. That in order to attain the goal, we have to have outside assistance, which is where the new testament, and the new covenant, enters the picture.

As was pointed out above, Jesus said that he did not come to abolish the law, but instead that he came to fulfill it.

.

Let's see, I've broken the third, fourth, and seventh commandments. Yeah, I curse way too much, I don't go to church anymore, and regarding the adultery one, when I met my husband, he was still married, but was separated from his wife, and was starting divorce proceedings. So technically I did. There was another guy before my husband that I had been screwing who was also married, also separated and going through divorce proceedings with his wife. I'm not a saint and don't pretend to be.

(10-11-2022, 09:27 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 07:20 PM)Finspiracy Wrote: What if there was no need for the "why?" We just knew. Everything. I think that would involve a high risk of dying due to pure boredom. There would have been no need or will for me to make this thread. I would have already known everyone's replies beforehand. The fascination resides within the mystery.

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

1 Corinthians, 13:12, New International Version

The quest for wisdom is the essence of life in this realm. We will never attain it here, but still the compulsion continues, for as long as we do.
.

I have had on more than one occasion during my life, events of knowing without reason of knowing.

Many years ago, when I was still in university, I had a friend I loved like a sister. Her husband and family fully adopted me into their family. Which is always a special gift to the university student away from home.

One night, I awakened from my sleep in a state of panic. It was 2am. I had to talk to my friend. It was insane to call her that hour of the morning, but I had to talk to her. Her husband answered the phone and he was very annoyed that I was calling, but he wasn't nasty about it. He put the phone down and I waited for my friend to come to the phone, after a few minutes the phone clicked off.

I thought at first that her husband just hung up on me, but my panic was over. He called me back about three hours later. He sounded really confused. He asked me why did I call at 2 am. I explained that I woke up in a panic and just felt I "had" to talk to her. He started crying. He told me that when he tried to wake her up, he couldn't wake her. He hung up and called the paramedics. They could not get her to respond at the hospital and she died. It turned out she had an anaphylactic response to a new medication she had started taking.

I did not know that my friend was dying. I will never know why I was awakened. I did know, I "knew", that I had to reach out to her, and I had no way of knowing why.

I could give you many more examples of this kind of knowing that has just come upon me at times in the past. This kind of knowing is not unique to me. In fact, I am willing to bet that almost everyone of us has this kind of knowing. We have been taught to suppress it for some reason, but it seems to break though every now and then.

(10-11-2022, 09:52 PM)ChiefD Wrote: Let's see, I've broken the third, fourth, and seventh commandments. Yeah, I curse way too much, I don't go to church anymore, and regarding the adultery one, when I met my husband, he was still married, but was separated from his wife, and was starting divorce proceedings. So technically I did. There was another guy before my husband that I had been screwing who was also married, also separated and going through divorce proceedings with his wife. I'm not a saint and don't pretend to be.

Anyone who claims they've never broken on of them is a damned liar. The claim itself is breaking them - it's a prideful boasting, and a form of covetousness - "look at me, see how good i am and how bad you are", that sort of thing.

This thread is like a public confessional, one which I am not going to enter because I am not a Catholic. I'm not even a Christian, by the self-definition of most Christians. Besides, If I was going to confess every time I've broken one of those commandments, it would amount to a feature length book.

.

(10-11-2022, 10:03 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 09:27 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 07:20 PM)Finspiracy Wrote: What if there was no need for the "why?" We just knew. Everything. I think that would involve a high risk of dying due to pure boredom. There would have been no need or will for me to make this thread. I would have already known everyone's replies beforehand. The fascination resides within the mystery.

"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."

1 Corinthians, 13:12, New International Version

The quest for wisdom is the essence of life in this realm. We will never attain it here, but still the compulsion continues, for as long as we do.
.

I have had on more than one occasion during my life, events of knowing without reason of knowing.

Many years ago, when I was still in university, I had a friend I loved like a sister. Her husband and family fully adopted me into their family. Which is always a special gift to the university student away from home.

One night, I awakened from my sleep in a state of panic. It was 2am. I had to talk to my friend. It was insane to call her that hour of the morning, but I had to talk to her. Her husband answered the phone and he was very annoyed that I was calling, but he wasn't nasty about it. He put the phone down and I waited for my friend to come to the phone, after a few minutes the phone clicked off.

I thought at first that her husband just hung up on me, but my panic was over. He called me back about three hours later. He sounded really confused. He asked me why did I call at 2 am. I explained that I woke up in a panic and just felt I "had" to talk to her. He started crying. He told me that when he tried to wake her up, he couldn't wake her. He hung up and called the paramedics. They could not get her to respond at the hospital and she died. It turned out she had an anaphylactic response to a new medication she had started taking.

I did not know that my friend was dying. I will never know why I was awakened. I did know, I "knew", that I had to reach out to her, and I had no way of knowing why.

I could give you many more examples of this kind of knowing that has just come upon me at times in the past. This kind of knowing is not unique to me. In fact, I am willing to bet that almost everyone of us has this kind of knowing. We have been taught to suppress it for some reason, but it seems to break though every now and then.

'After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper."

1 Kings 19:12 NIV

Most folks seem to equate that "still, small voice" in that passage with one's own conscience. I personally think it is something else, that it is really God speaking to you. So when that voice speaks, folks ought to listen, but sadly they usually don't, and then just write it off as a figment of their own imagination.

.

(10-11-2022, 10:06 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-11-2022, 09:52 PM)ChiefD Wrote: Let's see, I've broken the third, fourth, and seventh commandments. Yeah, I curse way too much, I don't go to church anymore, and regarding the adultery one, when I met my husband, he was still married, but was separated from his wife, and was starting divorce proceedings. So technically I did. There was another guy before my husband that I had been screwing who was also married, also separated and going through divorce proceedings with his wife. I'm not a saint and don't pretend to be.

Anyone who claims they've never broken on of them is a damned liar. The claim itself is breaking them - it's a prideful boasting, and a form of covetousness - "look at me, see how good i am and how bad you are", that sort of thing.

This thread is like a public confessional, one which I am not going to enter because I am not a Catholic. I'm not even a Christian, by the self-definition of most Christians. Besides, If I was going to confess every time I've broken one of those commandments, it would amount to a feature length book.

.

David is my favorite person in the Bible. He broke a many of the ten commandments, and showed all of his ass in worship. Pissed off his wife, but according to his wife, the slave girls were amused. Yet he loved God and God loved him above many. God punished him, but he continued to love him.

As much as I would like to be a Job, I am much closer to being a David. 

(10-11-2022, 10:15 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: David is my favorite person in the Bible. He broke a many of the ten commandments, and showed all of his ass in worship. Pissed off his wife, but according to his wife, the slave girls were amused. Yet he loved God and God loved him above many. God punished him, but he continued to love him.

As much as I would like to be a Job, I am much closer to being a David. 

David had talent. he managed to break not one, but THREE of the Commandments in a single sitting - when he had Uriah the Hittite murdered just so that he could take his wife Bathsheba! That was a murder, adultery, and covetousness, all at once.

I reckon that has to be talent, of a sort...

But speaking of Job in connection with that quiet voice:

"It stopped, but I could not tell what it was. A form stood before my eyes, and I heard a hushed voice:"

Job 4:16 NIV


.

This is exactly the type of thread that makes me look in the mirror and say "You...are a bad person..."

Or was.

I never murdered anyone. I'll leave it at that.

(10-11-2022, 11:32 PM)Sol Wrote: This is exactly the type of thread that makes me look in the mirror and say "You...are a bad person..."

Or was.

I never murdered anyone. I'll leave it at that.

You are in good company.

Rogues will be rogues.

Gotta love em.