I don't post about weird shit too often, but this just happened...

Several months back I was perusing a website about inks, fountain pen inks to be exact.  Various people had submitted their reviews of certain inks which I was reading through.  One reviewer posted a review about a couple different inks they had tested along with some pictures.  In the pictures was a statement..."Tiger-Tiger"...written with calligraphy in each one of the inks in question.  Shortly afterwards I got distracted by something and promptly forgot about it.

Two nights ago, for some odd reason, the phrase I'd seen months ago in the ink review..."Tiger-Tiger"... popped into my head.  This rang a bell with me, but I couldn't place it right off.  A quick check brought the reference quickly back to mind.  It is the opening two words of William Blake's 1794 poem "The Tiger".  I'm sure many here knew it even before I typed it, but I just couldn't place it in that moment (most likely because of the hyphen).

I remember the poem from my college years, and it always struck me as an enigma of sorts.  At first glance one might interpret the poem as being about fear, but it isn't, and this is what always intrigued me about it.  For the record, the poem is about what goes through the consciousness of one who creates something which generates terror and fear, even though they live for good.  (These are two distinctly different concepts.)   In many respects, it is about the 'creator'.  Is it about creating balance, or possibly a dark side of all good?  It's mystifying in a way.

Because I always liked the work, I decided to write it down (as I hadn't previously, and didn't have a copy of the work).  So, I took one of my own fountain pens and copied down the six verses from nearly 240 years ago.  I keep journals of life and times, so I wrote the poem down in one of those.

Later that evening I was sitting on the couch with the wife, watching TV which I am not a fan of...(TV, not sitting on the couch with the wife).  I'll be danged if all of a sudden, one of the characters on the program didn't say..."Tiger Tiger"...as if some cryptic reference.  Soon thereafter another character said the same thing..."Tiger Tiger".

My wife turned to me and asked what 'Tiger Tiger' meant(?)  (how strange, I thought) I told her to reach over her right shoulder and grab the journal book off the end-table, and open it to the marked page.  She did, and practically simultaneously some other character on the TV program asked the same question my wife had just asked.  As my wife read aloud the words from Blake's poem, so to did one of the characters on the program we were watching.  My wife just about fell off her seat...hearing them, identical, in line and verse.

Tyger Tyger, burning bright, 

In the forests of the night; 
What immortal hand or eye, 
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies. 
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand, dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder, & what art,
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat.
What dread hand? & what dread feet?

What the hammer? what the chain,
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp.
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears 
And water'd heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

Tyger Tyger burning bright,
In the forests of the night:
What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?


Now, if all of this wasn't strange enough already, then consider this...

With all the craziness and evil going on in our society today, pick a country (North America, Europe, Australia, Asia, Japan, etc.), seemingly all at once, one must wonder what is the root of it all, and what was in the consciousness of whatever entity created the purveyors of it.

Perhaps Blake was wondering in 1794 what we, in society today, should be wondering.  Though, this Tiger has no stripes, yet he is among us.

(Now, you tell me...if that isn't some freaky, weird, quinky-dink, paranormal, spooky, weird shit...then I'm not sure I know what is!)

In the World in which we live, things are not always what they seem.

Sometimes, the words we hear and see don't mean what they appear to...when what seems right is, in fact, wrong.

Do we plumb the depths of wrong in search of right?  Where do we turn?

If you can look past the surface of what follows (it will be difficult for some).  Perhaps take a moment, a listen if you will, to the myriad of different meanings...as you go back and read Blakes words (in the OP above)...between the dark and the light.

(07-08-2022, 01:43 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: In the World in which we live, things are not always what they seem.

Sometimes, the words we hear and see don't mean what they appear to...when what seems right is, in fact, wrong.

Do we plumb the depths of wrong in search of right?  Where do we turn?

If you can look past the surface of what follows (it will be difficult for some).  Perhaps take a moment, a listen if you will, to the myriad of different meanings...as you go back and read Blakes words (in the OP above)...between the dark and the light.

It is for many of the things that you have experienced, and more so for many of the things that I have experienced, that left me with the same feelings that you have described, that made me revisit the Bible.

When I started my quest, I did not go in as a true believer. I was raised up in the church, and found for me, it was lacking.

It took me a very long time, but I found out what the church was lacking.

I also found that, "In the World in which we live, things are not always what they seem.

Sometimes, the words we hear and see don't mean what they appear to...when what seems right is, in fact, wrong."

(07-08-2022, 01:43 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: In the World in which we live, things are not always what they seem.

Sometimes, the words we hear and see don't mean what they appear to...when what seems right is, in fact, wrong.

Do we plumb the depths of wrong in search of right?  Where do we turn?

If you can look past the surface of what follows (it will be difficult for some).  Perhaps take a moment, a listen if you will, to the myriad of different meanings...as you go back and read Blakes words (in the OP above)...between the dark and the light.

Nice tune. I like Cannons (generally).

As to your synchronistic episode, sounds like a few years of my life. I don't want to forget them, but then, don't want to hold on to them, either.
Spent probably more time trying to make sense of them ("what does it mean?"), and the many 'synchronicities' involved, than the actual experience/s consumed.

Don't think I could be of any help with 'the meaning' of yours, but wish you well in said search. ...And...should you come to some consciousness-shattering/confirming answer/conclusion, would love to have an opportunity to weigh it against what I think I've found.

(07-08-2022, 02:11 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: It is for many of the things that you have experienced, and more so for many of the things that I have experienced, that left me with the same feelings that you have described, that made me revisit the Bible.

When I started my quest, I did not go in as a true believer. I was raised up in the church, and found for me, it was lacking.

It took me a very long time, but I found out what the church was lacking.

I also found that, "In the World in which we live, things are not always what they seem.

Sometimes, the words we hear and see don't mean what they appear to...when what seems right is, in fact, wrong."

Likewise.  You may have noticed (here and elsewhere) I rarely ever use the word "God", instead opting for "Gawd".  This is intentional (very).  You see, and I seldom ever say this either, it's not that I don't believe (in God.  I very much do), I just don't believe in the "Church" of God.  I don't believe in fear...and certainly not as an instrument of obedience, hence my distaste for organized religion(s).

To your point, works like the Bible stand independent from any 'church' (much to their dismay, I'm sure.  Despite their attempts to make things appear otherwise).  If one can read the Bible without being forced to do so through the polarized lens of a church, there can be much to be gained...for all.  But not even the Bible stands alone. 

One of my favorite lines from a movie is from the movie Dogma (of all movies!).  It's the part where Serendipity says..."You people don't celebrate your faith.  You mourn it!" 

I celebrate mine.  The right path isn't discovered through shame and apology.

Indeed, I believe that good comes from within, and that most evil (not all) is an external influence.  I suspect you may have seen your share of exceptions to that rule, but the point remains.  There is no doubt (in my mind anyway) there is a divine component to good.  As a Physicist, even I have to acknowledge there comes a point where the physical and mental construct around us can no longer be explained with a mathematical equation.  To parse that statement down and fully explain it would take more lines of text than this server (or any server) can offer.  But to the point of the OP and the subsequent post, there are two divergent paths, one good and one not.  At present society seems to be drifting towards the wrong path.

I believe in the good, hence the "fire" reference (which, to some I'm sure, seems counter-intuitive).

(07-08-2022, 02:27 PM)Minstrel Wrote: Nice tune. I like Cannons (generally).

As to your synchronistic episode, sounds like a few years of my life. I don't want to forget them, but then, don't want to hold on to them, either.
Spent probably more time trying to make sense of them ("what does it mean?"), and the many 'synchronicities' involved, than the actual experience/s consumed.

Don't think I could be of any help with 'the meaning' of yours, but wish you well in said search. ...And...should you come to some consciousness-shattering/confirming answer/conclusion, would love to have an opportunity to weigh it against what I think I've found.

I think where we sometimes go astray, is when we forget that every thing is connected. You may be across the room from me, you may not even know that I am in the room, but I can feel the breeze from the fan you are waving to cool yourself.

We may drink from the same glass, and you may get the oil, and I may get the vinegar. Even with synchronicity, we may share the same event, and yet not even come close to sharing the same experience.

We are connected, yet individual. Right and left, and left and right, become different spaces depending on where we are standing and where we are looking. The same can be said, on occasion, for right and wrong.

I guess the mystery is in how do we maneuver, peacefully, compassionately, productively, in a world where we are able to meet the needs of the individual without hindering the opportunity for the many to also meet their needs. Sharing seems to be the immediate answer, but sharing comes with a limit. Every man for himself, leaves you with the last man standing, and then there were none.

I don't know the answer to the mysteries, but I strongly believe that at the center of the answer has to stand balance. When we look closely at life on the planet, a pattern emerges. A cycle, a pattern, that appears continuous and appears to expand. Even in death there is growth. 

Whether you see it in a Fibonacci sequence or a Mandelbrot. It soon becomes very clear that "In the World in which we live, things are not always what they seem." "Sometimes, the words we hear and see don't mean what they appear to...when what seems right is, in fact, wrong."

@"Minstrel" - You see, I guess that's just it; it's not really about the synchronicity really (albeit a very strange moment), but rather so much more.

It's a allegory of sorts really.  We could construct all manner of complicated explanations for the sake of being profound.  Or, we could simplify it so everyone could understand, and if people could step back for a moment and see things in these ways they might understand.  At the risk of over-simplifying; we could draw a parallel to calling an innocent puppy away from a busy highway.  Life and innocence spared by good from a path where no good can come.  How all of our lives would be less, and how that young pup would be missed.  Many have the ability to see the right path, but not all have the virtue to follow it.

NsB4D hits the nail by saying there is a "balance", and indeed there is.  That balance is shifting, and not in the right direction, hence the whole "Fire for you" reference.  And, to the "why?" component, well...

When the stars threw down their spears 
And water'd heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

We, as a society, do bear some responsibility in the matter.

Perhaps we need to analyze that responsibility a little more carefully to better understand.

(07-08-2022, 03:18 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: Indeed, I believe that good comes from within, and that most evil (not all) is an external influence.  I suspect you may have seen your share of exceptions to that rule, but the point remains.  There is no doubt (in my mind anyway) there is a divine component to good.  As a Physicist, even I have to acknowledge there comes a point where the physical and mental construct around us can no longer be explained with a mathematical equation.  To parse that statement down and fully explain it would take more lines of text than this server (or any server) can offer.  But to the point of the OP and the subsequent post, there are two divergent paths, one good and one not.  At present society seems to be drifting towards the wrong path.

I believe in the good, hence the "fire" reference (which, to some I'm sure, seems counter-intuitive).

I agree with your stance on religion. Religion immediately kills any hope of developing a relationship of any kind with the creator. Religion locks God in a box, and makes him what they want him to be, this error often goes unnoticed by worshipers. It makes their relationship with the creator about them, not about God. It is all about what they do or don't do, not realizing that this thought means they can control what the creator is, thinks and does. An obvious error if they give any real thought to what they are doing.

God is either omnipotent, which means that he is God, not much more can be added to that, or he is, god, a power that can be defined, manipulated, and used.

I think this mistake is why so many people feel rejected, deceived, hopeless, and abandoned. They are putting their faith in a god with a little "G".


Just my opinion.

(07-08-2022, 01:26 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: I don't post about weird shit too often, but this just happened...

Several months back I was perusing a website about inks, fountain pen inks to be exact.  Various people had submitted their reviews of certain inks which I was reading through.  One reviewer posted a review about a couple different inks they had tested along with some pictures.  In the pictures was a statement..."Tiger-Tiger"...written with calligraphy in each one of the inks in question.  Shortly afterwards I got distracted by something and promptly forgot about it.

Two nights ago, for some odd reason, the phrase I'd seen months ago in the ink review..."Tiger-Tiger"... popped into my head.  This rang a bell with me, but I couldn't place it right off.  A quick check brought the reference quickly back to mind.  It is the opening two words of William Blake's 1794 poem "The Tiger".  I'm sure many here knew it even before I typed it, but I just couldn't place it in that moment (most likely because of the hyphen).

I remember the poem from my college years, and it always struck me as an enigma of sorts.  At first glance one might interpret the poem as being about fear, but it isn't, and this is what always intrigued me about it.  For the record, the poem is about what goes through the consciousness of one who creates something which generates terror and fear, even though they live for good.  (These are two distinctly different concepts.)   In many respects, it is about the 'creator'.  Is it about creating balance, or possibly a dark side of all good?  It's mystifying in a way.

Because I always liked the work, I decided to write it down (as I hadn't previously, and didn't have a copy of the work).  So, I took one of my own fountain pens and copied down the six verses from nearly 240 years ago.  I keep journals of life and times, so I wrote the poem down in one of those.

Later that evening I was sitting on the couch with the wife, watching TV which I am not a fan of...(TV, not sitting on the couch with the wife).  I'll be danged if all of a sudden, one of the characters on the program didn't say..."Tiger Tiger"...as if some cryptic reference.  Soon thereafter another character said the same thing..."Tiger Tiger".

My wife turned to me and asked what 'Tiger Tiger' meant(?)  (how strange, I thought) I told her to reach over her right shoulder and grab the journal book off the end-table, and open it to the marked page.  She did, and practically simultaneously some other character on the TV program asked the same question my wife had just asked.  As my wife read aloud the words from Blake's poem, so to did one of the characters on the program we were watching.  My wife just about fell off her seat...hearing them, identical, in line and verse.

Tyger Tyger, burning bright, 

In the forests of the night; 
What immortal hand or eye, 
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

In what distant deeps or skies. 
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand, dare seize the fire?

And what shoulder, & what art,
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat.
What dread hand? & what dread feet?

What the hammer? what the chain,
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp.
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?

When the stars threw down their spears 
And water'd heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

Tyger Tyger burning bright,
In the forests of the night:
What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?


Now, if all of this wasn't strange enough already, then consider this...

With all the craziness and evil going on in our society today, pick a country (North America, Europe, Australia, Asia, Japan, etc.), seemingly all at once, one must wonder what is the root of it all, and what was in the consciousness of whatever entity created the purveyors of it.

Perhaps Blake was wondering in 1794 what we, in society today, should be wondering.  Though, this Tiger has no stripes, yet he is among us.

(Now, you tell me...if that isn't some freaky, weird, quinky-dink, paranormal, spooky, weird shit...then I'm not sure I know what is!)

Imagine the number of events that had to come together so this could happen. At first I thought spooky but I think that a lot of things just aligned. These moments happen sometimes. Where everything comes together. Maybe we do not catch them as often as they happen, is what I think. 

This is exceptional though, thank you for sharing :)

(07-08-2022, 01:26 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: I don't post about weird shit too often, but this just happened...


(Now, you tell me...if that isn't some freaky, weird, quinky-dink, paranormal, spooky, weird shit...then I'm not sure I know what is!)

I agree that it's some very spooky weird shit. I got a shiver reading your post. Thanks for sharing. I also agree, as some have said on here, that there is definitely some synchronicity going on, along with some other stuff which I'm struggling to comprehend. I guess that's what makes it all so fascinating, like I want to go down the rabbit hole to figure out what's going on here. 

I love where poetry can take us in the mind, body, and soul. Most poetry has a lot of soul to it. I felt it in my soul just reading that poem. And I believe the author of that poem was way ahead of his time.

(07-08-2022, 03:18 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: I believe in the good, hence the "fire" reference (which, to some I'm sure, seems counter-intuitive).

Not really so very counter-intuitive. I think most folks see fire only as a destructive force, but fire also cleanses, sterilizes, and purifies.

.

(07-09-2022, 01:32 AM)Tarzan the apeman. Wrote:

The world not only sees him, they worship him.

You can find at last twenty videos on YouTube where the rich and the famous, tell of selling of their souls. Just as many telling of the evil practices that go on behind the scenes and behind closed doors.

The same people that claim to be against Satan worship his minions. This is not new. Satan, the Prince of darkness has always come dressed in the garments of light.

Satan's greatest feat was once, convincing people he did not exist. He has far surpassed that. He now not only shows people that he exist, he has them falling at his feet in worship. Begging for fame and wealth, the simple barter for their souls.

Satan is in the middle of his reign. This is no secret.

(07-08-2022, 03:18 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: it's not that I don't believe (in God.  I very much do), I just don't believe in the "Church" of God.

You're on-point for the most part. Though there are many churches with pastors who know of God ... as opposed to believe in God, yet even they are unaware of his will ... or they're doing their own thing. I don't think God even cares about that.

Check out the life stories of these historical figures when you get a chance ... and tell me what you conclude:
Chrishna of Hindostan
Budha Sakia of India
Salivahana of Bermuda
Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt
Odin of the Scandinavians
Crite of Chaldea
Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia
Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phoenecia
Indra of Tibet
Bali of Afghanistan
Jao of Nepal
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Thammuz of Syria
Atys of Phrygia
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zoar of the Bonzes
Adad of Assyria
Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam
Alcides of Thebes
Mikado of the Sintoos
Beddru of Japan
Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids
Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls
Cadmus of Greece
Hil and Feta of the Mandaites
Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
Ischy of the island of Formosa
Divine Teacher of Plato
Holy One of Xaca
Fohi and Tien of China
Adonis, son of the virgin lo of Greece
Ixion and Ouirinus of Rome
Prometheus of Caucasus

(08-17-2022, 11:24 PM)Snarl Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 03:18 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: it's not that I don't believe (in God.  I very much do), I just don't believe in the "Church" of God.

You're on-point for the most part. Though there are many churches with pastors who know of God ... as opposed to believe in God, yet even they are unaware of his will ... or they're doing their own thing. I don't think God even cares about that.

Check out the life stories of these historical figures when you get a chance ... and tell me what you conclude:
Chrishna of Hindostan
Budha Sakia of India
Salivahana of Bermuda
Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt
Odin of the Scandinavians
Crite of Chaldea
Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia
Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phoenecia
Indra of Tibet
Bali of Afghanistan
Jao of Nepal
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Thammuz of Syria
Atys of Phrygia
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zoar of the Bonzes
Adad of Assyria
Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam
Alcides of Thebes
Mikado of the Sintoos
Beddru of Japan
Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids
Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls
Cadmus of Greece
Hil and Feta of the Mandaites
Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls
Ischy of the island of Formosa
Divine Teacher of Plato
Holy One of Xaca
Fohi and Tien of China
Adonis, son of the virgin lo of Greece
Ixion and Ouirinus of Rome
Prometheus of Caucasus

Or Ninurta of the Mesopotamians, A.K.A. Ningursu ("lord of the city of Girsu") of the Sumerians. There are literally thousands of us, wreaking havoc on humanity for sport.

A couple years ago, I was doing a deep dive into my geneaology during covid lockdown when there was nothing else to do. Imagine my surprise at finding a certain Odin, who lived around 17 AD in a town named Asgard on the Jutland peninsula, now Denmark, allegedly buried among the roots of my family tree.

Just as Odin was apparently a real person once upon a time, a great many "gods" were, at one time, real flesh and blood people who were deified at some point after their deaths. The Catholics even deified Jesus a couple centuries after his death, effectively setting up a three god and one goddess religion bearing no resemblance to what Jesus taught. A careful reading of the gospels will give the lie to the Catholic polytheistic religion. At no time did Jesus claim godhood, and as a matter of fact he actively taught against such notions, stressing over and over again that there was ONE God, and that it wasn't him. He claimed only to be a servant of that God, the "Son of Man", and perhaps the Messiah. Mere humans even messed that up, expecting the messiah to be a political figure, failing to realize that God does not concern himself with human political systems - God's kingdom is spiritual, "The Kingdom of Heaven", rather than temporal and Earth-bound.

People are crazy. Most of them could screw up a one-horse parade.

.

I have been having some synchronicity lately, nothing as extreme as what you have experienced. However, I've been noticing that most of my pursuits, as diverse and unrelated as they seem, are coming together in many ways. Almost like everything I do is holding hands and dancing in a circle, all heading toward some kind of singularity. I suspect that I am at the center of this singularity. Not everything I do has seem to come together in this circle, but I get the feeling that it is, I just haven't been seeing it yet. I look forward to making those final connections and completing the circle.

(08-18-2022, 12:38 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(08-17-2022, 11:24 PM)Snarl Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 03:18 PM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: it's not that I don't believe (in God.  I very much do), I just don't believe in the "Church" of God.

I don't think God even cares about that.

bearing no resemblance to what Jesus taught.

The first historical records of Jesus surface about 40 years after his reported death.  Can you name a person who died, and was either forgotten or erased from history ... and then give me the story of their life at the level of detail given to Jesus Christ?

That laundry list of names above consists of everyone (I'm aware of) who has a history that mirrors the Christ myth.

(08-18-2022, 12:38 AM)Ninurta Wrote: A careful reading of the gospels will give the lie to the Catholic polytheistic religion.

I have met God Almighty three times (it's a take your breath away experience). I've also encountered a minor deity (not _even_ an entity you would choose to fuck with as a mere mortal human being). Anyone else who ever did would make a note of it too.

I'm no proselytizer. I'm no sage. But ... I know what I know. I'd guess that most religions are just made up BS. A method of man to gain power over others. Doesn't for one second mean God isn't who he is. His 'Only Begotten Son'? Wait a sec. Exactly how many times did that happen prior to the Jesus myth? Damn near verbatim and thousands of 'recorded' years before!! The list of times (names actually) is above.

(08-18-2022, 06:03 AM)Snarl Wrote: ...

I'd guess that most religions are just made up BS. A method of man to gain power over others.

I'd guess you are right. There are over 400 sects of Christians, and God only knows how many sects of Islam. They can't be all right, and sometimes I wonder if any of them are. What they all have in common is roots going back to one mortal who decided to "reinterpret" what was written down concerning them, for what purpose I can't speculate on, since I'm not one of those "Founders".

Quote:Doesn't for one second mean God isn't who he is.

...

That's what I think, too. Why would an immortal and unfathomable deity restrain itself to mortal beliefs or "interpretations" concerning it? God does not jump through hoops at the command of mortals.

.

@"FlyingClayDisk" 

It should have been called "Badger, Badger"