Remember the girl who was raped by the male student wearing a dress in the girls bathroom. The girls father went to a school board meeting and was rather stern and forceful wanting to know why the dress wearing little angle received no punishment and was transferred to another school without even so much as a hand slap.

The father was arrested and classified a domestic terrorist under the new guide lines about anyone who disagrees with or creates a ruckus at school board meeting.

Then the propaganda started claiming this was a false story by right wing transgender haters as even Obama even got involved. No wonder there IMO.

Folks for those who live in America all I can say is you need to get control of your local and state governments and certainly some of these sick bastards that sit on your school boards. The universities have been over run with those who seek the destruction of not just statues but the very things that made America the once great idea that most cherished.



https://www.westernjournal.com/loudoun-c...ied-cover/

Quote:When Scott Smith went to the Loudoun County school board meeting on June 22, he says he had one intention — to tell the story of his daughter’s rape.
One of the items to be discussed at the meeting was a proposed school district policy that would allow students to enter their bathroom of choice based on their “gender identity.”
A number of protesting parents had gathered to voice their opinions. Others supported the policy, denouncing their more conservative peers as bigots.

School superintendent Scott Ziegler assured parents that there is no reason to be concerned over the inclusion of transgender students in bathrooms and locker rooms.
When Beth Barts, a member of the school board, asked at the meeting if the school district had “assaults in our bathrooms or locker rooms regularly,” Ziegler said that wasn’t a problem.
Trending:
No Woke Agenda in Court: Rittenhouse Judge Says Rioters Can't Be Called 'Victims,' Approves This List Instead
“To my knowledge, we don’t have any record of assaults occurring in our restrooms,” he said, according to The Daily Wire (subscription required).
“Have we had any issues involving transgender students in our bathrooms or locker rooms?” Barts asked, according to The Daily Wire.

Ziegler was unequivocal.
“Time Magazine in 2016 called that a red herring, that the data was simply not playing out that transgender students were more likely to assault cisgender students in restrooms than were other students,” he said, according to The Daily Wire. “In fact, regardless of the gender identity of the student, if a crime or violation of the rules were committed, that would be investigated and dealt with to the full extent of the rules or the law …”
Should Loudoun County be held accountable?
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“I think it’s important to keep our perspective on this, we’ve heard it several times tonight from our public speakers, but the predator transgender student or person simply does not exist.”
But, according to The Daily Wire, Smith knew these words to be beside the point. He said his child, a ninth-grade girl, had been raped in a girls’ bathroom by a “bisexual” boy.
“The point is kids are using it as an advantage to get into the bathrooms,” he told the outlet.

Let me add some perspective to this for consideration.

Firstly, my sympathies to the victims and their families of these horrible attacks. The perpetrator of this crime is a predator and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law if found guilty along with some serious psychological intervention and counseling. Secondly, the screwup here was the school district simply transferring the assailant to another school while the first incident was under investigation and not notifying parents an alleged predator was in their midst.

Additionally,

* There have been no verified statements from law enforcement that the person who committed these acts is bisexual, gender fluid, transgender or was dressed in women’s clothing. This is a claim from the victim's father.

* The Loudoun County School Board did not vote to approve the school system’s trans nondiscrimination policy until August of this year, more than three months after the first of the two sexual assault incidents occurred.

* School districts across the country that have passed pro-trans policies have reported no verified incidence of anyone abusing said policies to commit such attacks in schools. Some of these policies have been in effect for a decade.

Outside reading:

Conservatives blame pro-trans policy after assaults in Loudon schools

Parents blame sexual assaults on school district’s trans bathroom policies without proof

Again, these pro-trans policies were not in effect when this happened. There is no evidence from anywhere these policies are in effect that they make something like this more likely to happen. It’s partisan fear mongering plain and simple.

Additional commentary and disclaimer:

84% of transgender students feel unsafe in school. 50% of transgender girls have been threatened with physical violence. According to GLSEN’s latest findings, LGBT secondary-school students as a whole experience higher rates of bullying based on not only their sexual orientation and gender identity, but also their appearance and body size. They’re also more likely to experience sexual harassment, cyberbullying, and property damage  among other forms of intimidation and abuse than their heterosexual and non-transgender peers.

Overall, 86% of LGBT students were harassed or assaulted at school and LGBT students are three times as likely than their non-LGBT counterparts to report they do not plan on completing high school, and twice as likely to have skipped school in the past month as a result of feeling unsafe or uncomfortable around their peers.

LGBTQ Teens Feel Unsafe and Unwelcome, Despite Growing Support for Rights

LBGT Students Are Not Safe at School

Like it or not, some kids are gay and some kids are trans. How did you all treat the perceived or rumored queer kids when you were in school and how do you think that made them feel? As one of those kids, I can tell you it wasn’t good. There is really no reason for this other than the ugliest of human nature and prejudice, ignorance and fear against those seen as different. At times I am doubtful that humanity will ever grow up.

To add a personal note as someone of transsexual experience that lived with bullying, abuse, ostracization and violence from the time I entered kindergarten in 1960… while in high school I lived as a girl outside of school but was perceived as a very gay and gender non-conforming “queer faggot” in order to stay in school and life sucked. This was the most difficult and challenging period in my entire life. In the 10th grade I was criminally assaulted by a group of homophobic boys that landed me in the hospital and kept me out of school a month in recovery for no other reason than I was seen as different and other. I used the restroom at school a grand total of twice in four years because it was just too dangerous for me to do so and all this combined led me to some very dark places that no kid should ever be driven too. I was determined to quit school after the 11th grade and it’s only because I was fortunate and privileged enough to receive the healthcare I needed that I didn’t. (and besides that, my parents would have murdered me if I didn’t graduate)

I was lucky, strong and I endured and prevailed but wouldn’t have without the understanding and support from my family. Kids today that face the same challenges, especially those who aren’t in accepting households are at great risk and if it takes policies procedures to protect them, I’m all for it because left on their own, people will be assholes. Why this crap gets blown out of proportion and why this country is in the divisive state it’s in is because controversy sells newspapers and gets the most clicks. Don’t fall for media bullshit just because it fits your narrative. Please be good humans and treat all people with dignity and respect even if they are different.

If someone does bad things, let them pay for it but don't use the actions of one bad actor to blame or demonize an entire demographic without some sort of evidence bad things are inherent to that group. Doing so is just stupid.

Not to go off to[pic to much but,
@"Freija" 

Quote:Additional commentary and disclaimer:

84% of transgender students feel unsafe in school. 50% of transgender girls have been threatened with physical violence. According to GLSEN’s latest findings, LGBT secondary-school students as a whole experience higher rates of bullying based on not only their sexual orientation and gender identity, but also their appearance and body size. They’re also more likely to experience sexual harassment, cyberbullying, and property damage  among other forms of intimidation and abuse than their heterosexual and non-transgender peers.

Overall, 86% of LGBT students were harassed or assaulted at school and LGBT students are three times as likely than their non-LGBT counterparts to report they do not plan on completing high school, and twice as likely to have skipped school in the past month as a result of feeling unsafe or uncomfortable around their peers.

The above comment was more than likely current 20 or more years ago.
The LGBT thing has grown larger and much more accepted and common in our society.
Why, because I teach TCM at two large Colleges with dorms and I have a Clinic I run.
At the colleges I am also the Director of Herbal / TCM and other instructors report to me.
The gay / lgbt community thrives in our colleges and universities.
I don't see fear in their eyes.

Now I think the Politics and the Teachers Union in the last 10 years we do have a problem and it is with Trans People whom I believe are not really fully Transexual but use it as an excuse to get heir way with someone.

I feel the article I'm going to attach is more intune with the times today,

Quote:'We're being pressured into sex by some trans women'
Is a lesbian transphobic if she does not want to have sex with trans women? Some lesbians say they are increasingly being pressured and coerced into accepting trans women as partners - then shunned and even threatened for speaking out. Several have spoken to the BBC, along with trans women who are concerned about the issue too.

"I've had someone saying they would rather kill me than Hitler," says 24-year-old Jennie*.


"They said they would strangle me with a belt if they were in a room with me and Hitler. That was so bizarrely violent, just because I won't have sex with trans women."



Jennie is a lesbian woman. She says she is only sexually attracted to women who are biologically female and have vaginas. She therefore only has sex and relationships with women who are biologically female.
Jennie doesn't think this should be controversial, but not everyone agrees. She has been described as transphobic, a genital fetishist, a pervert and a "terf" - a trans exclusionary radical feminist.
Source

I do not feel she is Transphobic, she has a sexual preference and I respect that.
I think she has the right to be with a naturally born woman.

Loudoun County schools have a plethora of issues, and this one is nowhere near the top of the list, it's just getting top billing because it is current.

My son went to high school in Loudoun County, so I'm not just talking out of my ass or from sound bites on the news. Loudoun County is one of the, if not THE, wealthiest counties in America, and it is a disgrace for them to have such a substandard school system. Their schools have utterly forsaken education in favor of woke indoctrination. Schools are for teaching, educating, not for social indoctrination... but that is where Loudoun County has gone, and it is disgraceful. No wonder parents are up in arms over it. My entire family has left there, and taken up residence in saner areas, so we no longer have a dog in that fight. Loudoun County can go ahead and explode for all we care.

Loudoun County is in Northern Virginia, right on the border with Maryland, and that brings up another part of the problem - the entire state of Virginia is no longer interested in education. Oh, they provide lip service to it, but that is all. Instead, the state department of education hands down edicts for indoctrination and social engineering, and gives no shits at all about actual education.

This trans bathroom issue is an example. That edict to implement the policy was handed down from Richmond. Some counties have refused to comply, and that is going to get interesting. There was a big ruckus about it in neighboring Russell County, and all of the dust has still not settled. The school board has voted to not implement it, with the backing of a majority of the parents there. Matter of fact, the ONLY people I've heard speak against it are from other places, not Russell County. They need to go the hell home and run their own houses as they see fit, not try to force other folks into running their little world they way the (outsider) dissenters want it run.

I personally back the Russell County School Board. Not that it matters, because I don't live there, either, so I really have no dog in that fight, but I was raised there, I know the people, and I can see what the school board is trying to do. They are trying to save lives. Sure as God made little green apples, the first time a guy goes into the same restroom as some of those fellas daughters, that guy is going to be found some time later, face down in a ditch. It ain't right, but that is the reality of it. Right and wrong don't enter the picture, only hard, cold reality does.

I went to high school in Russell County, lo those many years ago. The entire time I was in high school, I ran across exactly ONE guy who may (or may not) have been transgendered. I never asked his politics or his sexual preferences, because in all seriousness I just wasn't interested in either. I did light a couple folks up for picking on him, because he had some seriously effeminate mannerisms, but I just wasn't interested in his personal life - he wasn't a friend, nor was he an enemy, he was just another student to me, with as much right to an education as any of the rest of us.

One other incident, also in high school but at another place, occurred. In my Junior year, I was in the "Upward Bound" program, where some folks some where had an idea to give students they thought had promise a leg-up, and send them to college over the summer interims between school years. My summers were spent at a campus of the University of Virginia. There was a guy there who was thoroughly feminized, and I used to occasionally hang out with him just to keep him from being entirely alone there. He was pretty badly ostracized. I took a little bit of crap for that, but not too much. Folks quickly figured out that I didn't care to take a tussle and catch a charge of I was screwed with, so the bullshit stopped.

So, back then, this sort of thing was just not as prevalent as it seems to be now. It was a thing, but not nearly as big a thing as folks would have us believe it is now. Are people really that different over a mere 50 odd years?

For my money, the bathroom issue could be resolved by just creating a third kind of student bathroom for "other than". Give trans kids their own. That, it seems to me, would protect them, and keep frictions at a minimum for everyone. Teenage years are tough for everyone, not just trans kids, and I can see no reason that one's "rights" should be allowed to run roughshod over the "rights" of any other.

Everyone is getting all bent out of shape over trans rights, and in the shuffle are losing sight of the rights of the "not trans" kids to enter a bathroom in peace, without having to worry whether there is a guy or gal in there for them to have to work around. For example, I've never been in the habit of taking a leak around strange women, not even if those strange women are wearing a 3 piece suit, a tie, and really sporty shoes. What about the rights of not-trans kids to go to the bathroom in peace and security? Do trans rights just eliminate their rights?

NO ONE has a "right" to be accepted. Not me, nor anyone else. Like respect, acceptance is earned, not granted. No one has a right to force someone else to rub elbows with them. The closest thing they have is a right to be left alone in peace... but that same right also belongs to the targets of their ire, eh?

The bigger issue, the issue that this transgender bathroom free-for-all is masking (designed to mask?) is all of the OTHER social engineering bullshit that woke politicians are trying to force down the throats of the populace in lieu of simply educating.

It's eventually going to end poorly.

.

(10-27-2021, 09:40 PM)guohua Wrote: I do not feel she is Transphobic, she has a sexual preference and I respect that.
I think she has the right to be with a naturally born woman.

I feel the same. Different people are attracted to different things, and repulsed by different things. I think she has every right not to be coerced into dealing with a pecker if peckers are not her thing, regardless of the orientation of the potential paramour.

It's not a matter of being "phobic" at all, it's just a matter of "no, that don't trip my trigger, so keep looking, hon. Move right along. I'm not the droid you are looking for."

They can still be friends, but no one should be able to coerce them into being lovers.

I like girls, but not ALL girls. I'm partial to redheads, for example, but they are really, REALLY bad for me, if history is any indication. Some guys like big boobs. Some guys like tiny boobs. Some guys like big bubble butts, some guys like tiny flat butts. Some guys like fat women, others like skinny women, others like proportionally shaped women. It's not that they are "phobic" or afraid of the other kind of anatomy, it's just not their preference, and they should be allowed to pursue their own happiness.

That goes for everyone, men, women, gay or straight or other. Folks should be allowed to pursue their own happiness, and no one should be allowed to extort them into betraying themselves. If someone doesn't like you in that way, just move along and find someone who does. It takes all kinds, and there are all kinds out there to be found.

.

@"guohua" Hi! Thanks for your comments and the opportunity to reply. The numbers I listed are from a 2019 survey of 21,000 high school students and I will agree things are probably better at the college/university level.

As for your linked article, to the outside observer especially those in the U.S., a little context and backstory is needed to understand what is going on in the UK which has become ground zero for anti-trans discourse and the epicenter of the TERF (trans exclusionary radical feminists) AKA the “gender critical” ideologies and agendas.

Here is an analysis of the BBC story that explains how this is nothing but poorly researched, highly biased disingenuous journalistic propaganda. Basically, it was based on a survey done by an anti-trans group of eighty (80!!) radical lesbians whose group wants to get the L out of LGBT and with input from the LGB Alliance, a supposedly pro gay group whose focus and agenda is entirely anti-trans.

[video=youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oprjb_ljVqQ&t=250s[/video]

The BBC has been taking a lot of heat for uncritically platforming anti-trans campaigners and organizations, spreading misinformation about the Stonewall and Mermaids charities and falling short of editorial standards.

BBC slammed for failing LGBT+ people – especially trans lives – in damning open letter

Here’s what other sources are saying:

(Note for the unaware: In the context of trans discussions “cis” as in cisgender is a Latin prefix used scientifically to mean on the same side as or the opposite of trans – across or on the other side of. It simply means not transgender.)

Cis lesbians condemn BBC for ‘transphobic campaign’ after shameless attack on trans women

Quote:Prominent cis lesbians have accused the BBC of amplifying a “transphobic campaign” and contributing to a “baseless moral panic”.

The criticism comes after the BBC published an article, “We’re being pressured into sex by some trans women“, claiming that cis lesbians are being coerced into sex by trans women.

The 26 October article has been widely denounced by the wider LGBT+ community for relying on a small study carried out by a known anti-trans campaign group to back up its claims, including by more than 10,000 people who have signed an open letter to BBC management.

The criticism also hones in on the fact that the BBC continues to platform anti-trans charity LGB Alliance, which the public broadcaster has received backlash for in the past. In fact, the BBC has previously been branded “institutionally transphobic” by senior MPs, LGBT+ campaigners and public figures for its anti-trans coverage.

The BBC is getting slammed for article claiming trans women rape lesbians

Quote:The BBC is receiving a huge backlash for publishing an anonymously sourced article that quotes transphobic hate groups to claim that transgender women are threatening and shaming lesbians into having sex with them. LGBTQ organizations say that the article could be used to deny transgender rights by relying on the stereotype that trans women are sexual predators…

The pro-trans watchdog group, Trans Media Watch (TMW), noted that some of the tweets quoted in the article were part of a “false flag” campaign intended to vilify the trans community as pressuring others into having sex with them.

The TMW wrote of the report, “Either the BBC have failed to do due diligence on this story – or the team producing this story have knowingly colluded in a disinformation campaign targeted at trans people… Irresponsible reporting like this is dangerous. It significantly and adversely impacts trans people’s day-to-day lives.”

BBC rigorously defends anti-trans article blisteringly condemned by thousands as ‘fake news’

Quote:At time of writing, more than 10,000 people have signed an open letter to BBC upper management and editorial staff, criticising the article for suggesting that “transgender women generally pose a risk to cisgender lesbians in great enough numbers that it is newsworthy” when the reality is this is “a matter of incredibly rare, isolated experiences”.
“The article uses a deeply flawed study that doesn’t meet BBC guidelines, and anecdotal accounts from known transphobic hate groups who actively campaign for transgender people to lose their legal recognition as their gender,”

[Soapbox]What most people don’t realize is that the so called “trans community” is anything but some organized, unified, monolithic entity and in fact is divided into several different, diverse and opposing factions or the fact that “gender dysphoria”, the diagnosable medical condition that drives people to be trans comes from two distinct and unique etiologies: innate and acquired. These deprecated distinctions were once called such things as true and pseudo transsexualism, primary and secondary transsexualism, early and late onset transsexualism and more contentiously since the late 1980s, homosexual and non-homosexual transsexualism known as HSTS and AGP.

People generally don’t know this because it is verboten to discuss within the TRA’s (trans rights activist) ideology which promotes the concept we’re all one big all the same happy family holding hands under the nebulous transgender umbrella and singing Kumbaya around the campfire when nothing could be further than the truth.

Those that question this narrative are branded as elitists and heretical separatists ignoring the historical facts that two distinct groups of trans people have been studied and documented for well over 100 years in but the modern context, these facts are completely ignored because 85% to 90% of the “trans community” has been co-opted and colonized by people that 45 and even 20 or 15 years ago would have not even been considered genuinely trans and denied medical transition.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s a total shitshow and those of us snobby elitists in the 10% to 15% minority are goddamn tired of it. I doubt anyone is interested in learning more about this so I’ll step off my soapbox for now unless someone wants to know more?

Mr @"Ninurta", thanks for your comments. I'll reply to you later tonight!

The school superintendent flat out lied as they have now found the emails that verify he knew what had happened in May. Not just him but the school board knew. Some the coverup may be due to the woke Democratic governor is in a tight reelection and has pushed the gender neutral bathroom insanity

(10-28-2021, 02:36 AM)Freija Wrote: @"guohua" Hi! Thanks for your comments and the opportunity to reply. The numbers I listed are from a 2019 survey of 21,000 high school students and I will agree things are probably better at the college/university level.

As for your linked article, to the outside observer especially those in the U.S., a little context and backstory is needed to understand what is going on in the UK which has become ground zero for anti-trans discourse and the epicenter of the TERF (trans exclusionary radical feminists) AKA the “gender critical” ideologies and agendas.

Here is an analysis of the BBC story that explains how this is nothing but poorly researched, highly biased disingenuous journalistic propaganda. Basically, it was based on a survey done by an anti-trans group of eighty (80!!) radical lesbians whose group wants to get the L out of LGBT and with input from the LGB Alliance, a supposedly pro gay group whose focus and agenda is entirely anti-trans.

[video=youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oprjb_ljVqQ&t=250s[/video]

The BBC has been taking a lot of heat for uncritically platforming anti-trans campaigners and organizations, spreading misinformation about the Stonewall and Mermaids charities and falling short of editorial standards.

BBC slammed for failing LGBT+ people – especially trans lives – in damning open letter

Here’s what other sources are saying:

(Note for the unaware: In the context of trans discussions “cis” as in cisgender is a Latin prefix used scientifically to mean on the same side as or the opposite of trans – across or on the other side of. It simply means not transgender.)

Cis lesbians condemn BBC for ‘transphobic campaign’ after shameless attack on trans women

Quote:Prominent cis lesbians have accused the BBC of amplifying a “transphobic campaign” and contributing to a “baseless moral panic”.

The criticism comes after the BBC published an article, “We’re being pressured into sex by some trans women“, claiming that cis lesbians are being coerced into sex by trans women.

The 26 October article has been widely denounced by the wider LGBT+ community for relying on a small study carried out by a known anti-trans campaign group to back up its claims, including by more than 10,000 people who have signed an open letter to BBC management.

The criticism also hones in on the fact that the BBC continues to platform anti-trans charity LGB Alliance, which the public broadcaster has received backlash for in the past. In fact, the BBC has previously been branded “institutionally transphobic” by senior MPs, LGBT+ campaigners and public figures for its anti-trans coverage.

The BBC is getting slammed for article claiming trans women rape lesbians

Quote:The BBC is receiving a huge backlash for publishing an anonymously sourced article that quotes transphobic hate groups to claim that transgender women are threatening and shaming lesbians into having sex with them. LGBTQ organizations say that the article could be used to deny transgender rights by relying on the stereotype that trans women are sexual predators…

The pro-trans watchdog group, Trans Media Watch (TMW), noted that some of the tweets quoted in the article were part of a “false flag” campaign intended to vilify the trans community as pressuring others into having sex with them.

The TMW wrote of the report, “Either the BBC have failed to do due diligence on this story – or the team producing this story have knowingly colluded in a disinformation campaign targeted at trans people… Irresponsible reporting like this is dangerous. It significantly and adversely impacts trans people’s day-to-day lives.”

BBC rigorously defends anti-trans article blisteringly condemned by thousands as ‘fake news’

Quote:At time of writing, more than 10,000 people have signed an open letter to BBC upper management and editorial staff, criticising the article for suggesting that “transgender women generally pose a risk to cisgender lesbians in great enough numbers that it is newsworthy” when the reality is this is “a matter of incredibly rare, isolated experiences”.
“The article uses a deeply flawed study that doesn’t meet BBC guidelines, and anecdotal accounts from known transphobic hate groups who actively campaign for transgender people to lose their legal recognition as their gender,”

[Soapbox]What most people don’t realize is that the so called “trans community” is anything but some organized, unified, monolithic entity and in fact is divided into several different, diverse and opposing factions or the fact that “gender dysphoria”, the diagnosable medical condition that drives people to be trans comes from two distinct and unique etiologies: innate and acquired. These deprecated distinctions were once called such things as true and pseudo transsexualism, primary and secondary transsexualism, early and late onset transsexualism and more contentiously since the late 1980s, homosexual and non-homosexual transsexualism known as HSTS and AGP.

People generally don’t know this because it is verboten to discuss within the TRA’s (trans rights activist) ideology which promotes the concept we’re all one big all the same happy family holding hands under the nebulous transgender umbrella and singing Kumbaya around the campfire when nothing could be further than the truth.

Those that question this narrative are branded as elitists and heretical separatists ignoring the historical facts that two distinct groups of trans people have been studied and documented for well over 100 years in but the modern context, these facts are completely ignored because 85% to 90% of the “trans community” has been co-opted and colonized by people that 45 and even 20 or 15 years ago would have not even been considered genuinely trans and denied medical transition.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s a total shitshow and those of us snobby elitists in the 10% to 15% minority are goddamn tired of it. I doubt anyone is interested in learning more about this so I’ll step off my soapbox for now unless someone wants to know more?

Mr @"Ninurta", thanks for your comments. I'll reply to you later tonight!

I in no way want to be rude, I could care less about your sexuality. I don't really care about anyone's gender identity. What I am more concerned with is people that want to perpetuate ANY sort of victimology narrative for a group of people. It is truly a disservice.

I believe that I should treat others as I would want to be treated. If as a culture we find that not to be a case, we work to correct. As a young, attractive woman I had multiple stories I could use to create my status as a victim. As an addict, no longer practicing, I could claim victimhood and make it my familiar life narrative. I have been raped, I was a victim when the incident happened then it was over and life goes on but I am not making a lifestyle of it. A story I keep telling myself, looking for confirmations of this in my reality. Looking for atta boys because something happened to me that I didn't want to happen.

We live in a culture that rewards victims...think about that. I have read accounts of young women pursuing gender change because they saw the support and approval others got, not because they had spent a lifetime feeling they were another gender. What does that say about our culture?

To claim that a group are victims is indicative that they need help by someone that is stronger and in a better position to help them. It is claiming they are lesser than.

Why don't we right wrongs on a individual basis. We treat others, no matter who they are like we want to be treated.

I have a tendency towards righteous indignation, but it really is not helpful.. I don't get to control the behavior of others, I am not better, worse or anything else. The best that I can do is to defend another if they need it in a given situation, to listen to them. Perpetuation and promotion of victim hood is the biggest disservice you can do any group.

You felt victimized and out of sync as a kid, well welcome to the club, we all did for one reason or another. Nobody gets it easy on this planet, nobody.

I like to look beyond the sexual preference issues and look at the results of the situation. Where is this leading and where will it end?

I don't know what excuses this rapist or even the school board is trying to use in defense of these actions, but the big picture isn't about that, it's about how this is being used and how this is all playing out. That is what is important, that is the prime issue IMO.

(10-28-2021, 02:27 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I like to look beyond the sexual preference issues and look at the results of the situation. Where is this leading and where will it end?

I don't know what excuses this rapist or even the school board is trying to use in defense of these actions, but the big picture isn't about that, it's about how this is being used and how this is all playing out. That is what is important, that is the prime issue IMO.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/10/15/...s-1149208/

More cover ups and sexual deviants

https://www.dailywire.com/news/exclusive...cords-show

@"Ninurta" Sorry to not reply sooner. Went looking for resources and got sucked down a ten hour rabbit hole of reading and trying to understand different points of view. Truth be told, I am so over talking about bathrooms.

Undoubtedly this is a complicated issue that gets people worked up but I think some of your assumptions here are flawed. There were several points I initially wanted to reply to but I just don’t have the energy or desire because to be honest, it’s not my fight and all I’ve wanted to do here is share the viewpoint of those for whom it is.

Ninurta Wrote:For my money, the bathroom issue could be resolved by just creating a third kind of student bathroom for "other than". Give trans kids their own. That, it seems to me, would protect them, and keep frictions at a minimum for everyone.

Seems reasonable. Gender neutral bathrooms are great and many schools have one but… history has shown that Jim Crow “separate but equal” segregation isn’t a viable solution.

Quote:Restrooms have played a role in virtually every civil rights movement in the United States. Controlling the way people use—or are not allowed to use—restrooms has been a tool for degrading people of color, excluding women from traditionally male jobs and keeping people with disabilities from accessing public accommodations and employment.

The public humiliation often involved makes it especially hard to confront restroom discrimination and educate the general public. But the same basic principle holds true for transgender people and those who have confronted this issue before: Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, including while involved in such basic human activities as using a public restroom.

The whole point of inclusionary bathroom policies is so that students won’t be othered, outed or stigmatized which leads to discrimination putting these kids at risk and undermining their social and academic development. Transgender students should not be singled out as the only people using any particular restroom as the goal is to integrate them into society rather than isolate them from it. Typically, students report access to gender neutral bathrooms is inadequate often being too few or located too far across campus to allow sufficient time between classes to be accessed, but I agree it’s still a better solution than forcing a trans girl into the boy’s bathroom or a trans boy into the girl’s.

A University of Michigan study reports eight in ten young people aged 14-24 years polled (79%), say that bathroom use by transgender people should not be restricted. The younger generation doesn’t really care. FYI, The Williams Institute at UCLA estimates there are approximately 150,000 transgender students in the 13-24 age group in the US.


Transgender students can face many barriers to acceptance at school, and requiring them to use a bathroom that is designated especially for them is tremendously stigmatizing. A school’s insistence that they be segregated from their peers also sends a message that the student’s gender identity is not real or valid. This represents an official refutation of the child’s sense of self. Coming from the very adults charged with protecting them, this can be devastating to the child’s sense of safety.

If forced to use a private space, many transgender students will simply not use any bathroom at school, compromising their health and interfering with their ability to focus on learning as they monitor their water intake, avoid foods that will make them thirsty, and/or try to wait until they get home to go to the bathroom. Make no mistake about it: Not allowing a transgender student to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity causes harm — emotionally, physically, academically, and socially. It is not a matter of discomfort. Explicitly denying a transgender student access to the bathroom corresponding to their gender identity endangers their health and well-being.

Ninurta Wrote:Teenage years are tough for everyone, not just trans kids, and I can see no reason that one's "rights" should be allowed to run roughshod over the "rights" of any other.

What “rights” are being “run roughshod” over exactly? Would you care to elaborate?

Here is a lengthy but pretty good analysis and constitutional review of these “rights”.

Constitutional Privacy and the Fight Over Access to Sex-Segregated Spaces

And who exactly are the people at risk here? There is no evidence that inclusionary bathroom policies result in an increase in assault or threat to non-trans people on the other hand, a report by the US Department of Justice said transgender people are the ones most at risk of sexual assault and harassment. Citing recent studies of transgender experiences, the report said one in every two transgender individuals are sexually abused or assaulted during their lifetimes.

Considering how this debate is clearly aligned with political and religious affiliation, with people married to their particular ideology and the current state of left/right polarization, it is a shame to see the lives of children who are already in distress used as a cudgel with little regard for how they’re affected.

Pointessa Wrote:I in no way want to be rude, I could care less about your sexuality. I don't really care about anyone's gender identity. What I am more concerned with is people that want to perpetuate ANY sort of victimology narrative for a group of people. It is truly a disservice.

Not to be rude either but I think perhaps your privilege is showing? Either that or you lack a degree of insight into minority perspectives or truly believe discrimination and or oppression for some groups really isn’t a thing?

pointessa Wrote:… As a young, attractive woman I had multiple stories I could use to create my status as a victim. As an addict, no longer practicing, I could claim victimhood and make it my familiar life narrative. I have been raped, I was a victim when the incident happened then it was over and life goes on but I am not making a lifestyle of it. A story I keep telling myself, looking for confirmations of this in my reality. Looking for atta boys because something happened to me that I didn't want to happen.

Congratulations! Here’s your atta boy for rising above.

Snark aside, I hear what you’re saying but some people aren’t as strong and resilient as others and some people that are traumatized in some way never really get over it and their victimization does become part of their narrative. In either case our experiences become part of our story or you wouldn’t have shared yours but how they’re responded to varies from person to person and some aren’t fortunate enough to be able to move on especially if the situations victimizing them in the first place are ongoing. Rather than vilify them for their weakness or help to lift them up, at least try to walk a mile in their shoes, show a little empathy and recognize one’s own privilege.

Pointessa\ Wrote:I believe that I should treat others as I would want to be treated. If as a culture we find that not to be a case, we work to correct.

How? I think one of those ways is by pointing out inequalities and injustice through educating and advocating for those that aren’t being treated how they would want others to treat them which explains why I’m even participating in this thread. In an obviously right-leaning, conservative venue such as this that borders on being an echo chamber of like-minded individuals most of the time, if I can add a different perspective into the conversation to maybe make people expand their thinking or better understand issues that most people have no personal experience with other than Fox News or cesspits like ATS and the like, then I feel I’m doing my part to do something positive to help even if it falls on deaf ears and makes me unpopular.

Pointessa Wrote:We live in a culture that rewards victims...think about that. I have read accounts of young women pursuing gender change because they saw the support and approval others got, not because they had spent a lifetime feeling they were another gender. What does that say about our culture?

Here’s what that says about our culture – it’s as misogynistic, sexist and broken as it’s ever been, modern feminism is cancer based on victimization and the pressures on young women today to be Instagram beautiful or TicTok famous are tremendous and extraordinarily damaging. As a “young, attractive woman” you should know well what it feels like to have your body sexualized by the male gaze and how creepy and traumatizing that can be especially if sexually assaulted so is it any wonder some young girls want to escape or disassociate from that entirely by becoming boys? It is unfortunate and sad evidence of what little progress humanity has made.

Girls are also more likely to have eating disorders, depression, anxiety and self-harm too and all I can say is I feel damn lucky the child I raised grew up before the internet because if I was a parent of a young girl today, I’d be terrified. It is unfortunate that being trans or non-binary has replaced emo, goth, punk, grunge etc. as the cool thing to be but I know as fact that beyond cultural and social influences and pressures, there are a rare minority of children that truly are gender dysphoric and suffering and I feel great compassion for their plight.

Pointessa Wrote:I have a tendency towards righteous indignation, but it really is not helpful.. I don't get to control the behavior of others, I am not better, worse or anything else. The best that I can do is to defend another if they need it in a given situation, to listen to them. Perpetuation and promotion of victim hood is the biggest disservice you can do any group.

So who exactly is playing the victim card here? Straight white Christian middle-class schoolgirls that might have to pee in a private stall next to a trans girl doing the same or a disenfranchised and misunderstood minority with a legitimately diagnosable medical condition whose treatment by society needs to be handled better?

You talk about trying to stand up and to defend when a situation calls for it. That's all I'm doing.

This isn't a case of gender issues as much of a rape issue. Obviously both though. The boy in a dress (sorry BIAD, had to do it) claimed his skirt was caught on his watch and contact was inadvertently made. Ok... Yet the alleged victim claimed he threw her down and flipped her over. Forced sodomy and forced fellacio. Must be a hell of a watch.

(10-29-2021, 04:57 AM)Freija Wrote: Seems reasonable. Gender neutral bathrooms are great and many schools have one but… history has shown that Jim Crow “separate but equal” segregation isn’t a viable solution.

Quote:Restrooms have played a role in virtually every civil rights movement in the United States. Controlling the way people use—or are not allowed to use—restrooms has been a tool for degrading people of color, excluding women from traditionally male jobs and keeping people with disabilities from accessing public accommodations and employment.

The public humiliation often involved makes it especially hard to confront restroom discrimination and educate the general public. But the same basic principle holds true for transgender people and those who have confronted this issue before: Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, including while involved in such basic human activities as using a public restroom.

Somehow, on some level, I knew race would eventually be introduced into a non-racial issue. It's not a valid analogy because I know very few blacks with Caucasian skin, nor very few whites with sub-Saharan African skin. The entire crux of the debate here is the physical attributes of the transgendered people in question - whether they have the physical attributes of their identification or not. It's pretty simple to me, but I am a simple-minded man - one simply goes to the bathroom that is equipped for the plumbing one possesses. In lieu of that, a third category of "unisex" bathroom would not be a bad idea to accommodate students who are either gender dysphoric or who just don't care. Some do, and that is as much an issue for them as it is for the transgendered students.

Quote:The whole point of inclusionary bathroom policies is so that students won’t be othered, outed or stigmatized which leads to discrimination putting these kids at risk and undermining their social and academic development. Transgender students should not be singled out as the only people using any particular restroom as the goal is to integrate them into society rather than isolate them from it. Typically, students report access to gender neutral bathrooms is inadequate often being too few or located too far across campus to allow sufficient time between classes to be accessed, but I agree it’s still a better solution than forcing a trans girl into the boy’s bathroom or a trans boy into the girl’s.

A University of Michigan study reports eight in ten young people aged 14-24 years polled (79%), say that bathroom use by transgender people should not be restricted. The younger generation doesn’t really care. FYI, The Williams Institute at UCLA estimates there are approximately 150,000 transgender students in the 13-24 age group in the US.

I postulate that if that is so, that 79% of younger folks simply do not care, then the unisex bathrooms would not be restricted to merely transsexual students, they would also be frequented by the 79% of other students who just don't care, by virtue of the "unisex" or "gender neutral" designation. If that is the case, there is no gender discrimination nor stigma. If access to gender neutral bathrooms is inadequate, then that should be addressed. It would benefit not just the transgender students, but that 79% majority of others as well, by providing easier and closer access to a bathroom the could use. I mean, really, when you gotta go, you gotta go, and easier access for all concerned could not be a bad thing.

And you are correct, there really IS a significant number that just don't care. Once upon a time, when I was in college at a community college, a couple of girls decided I needed a hair cut, an operation I am in perpetual need of, it seems. Anyhow, they decided that the best place for that operation was the women's restroom (easy cleanup, tiled floors). I was of course reluctant, (as this was 40 years ago) because I have an aversion to being arrested and I was studying Criminal Justice to be a cop at the time - a bad combination - but they finally talked me into it. I was truly amazed at the number of women who walked in, saw me there undergoing my haircut, and shrugged and went about their business. Now, there WAS the occasional shriek of "there's a MAN in here!" just before their flight in abject terror, but they were not in the majority even then.

So I understand that it is not an issue for some, but also realize it IS an issue for others, and all need to be equally accommodated under the law. Unisex bathrooms as an option alongside traditional restrooms is the only solution I have been able to come up with.

Quote:Transgender students can face many barriers to acceptance at school, and requiring them to use a bathroom that is designated especially for them is tremendously stigmatizing. A school’s insistence that they be segregated from their peers also sends a message that the student’s gender identity is not real or valid. This represents an official refutation of the child’s sense of self. Coming from the very adults charged with protecting them, this can be devastating to the child’s sense of safety.

Red herring - not designated for transgenders ONLY, but as "unisex" or "gender neutral", for anyone. No stigma there, if 79% of the rest of the student body are using it, too.

Quote:If forced to use a private space, many transgender students will simply not use any bathroom at school, compromising their health and interfering with their ability to focus on learning as they monitor their water intake, avoid foods that will make them thirsty, and/or try to wait until they get home to go to the bathroom. Make no mistake about it: Not allowing a transgender student to use the restroom consistent with their gender identity causes harm — emotionally, physically, academically, and socially. It is not a matter of discomfort. Explicitly denying a transgender student access to the bathroom corresponding to their gender identity endangers their health and well-being.

Understandable. I am acquainted within my own little sphere with women who simply refuse to use a public restroom, regardless of gender designation of it. That's not a problem limited to transgendered people. It's gotta be a problem, physically, for those women just as it is for the transgendered students in question.

Quote:

Ninurta Wrote:Teenage years are tough for everyone, not just trans kids, and I can see no reason that one's "rights" should be allowed to run roughshod over the "rights" of any other.

What “rights” are being “run roughshod” over exactly? Would you care to elaborate?

Here is a lengthy but pretty good analysis and constitutional review of these “rights”.

Constitutional Privacy and the Fight Over Access to Sex-Segregated Spaces

The right to use a bathroom, a very basic "personal space", without fear or trepidation. So far as I know - I have not yet read the link - there Is no Constitutional right to go to the bathroom. that is a basic human right (and necessity) that, at the time the Constitution was written, I presume was a foregone conclusion, not necessitating a Constitutional guarantee for.

Quote:And who exactly are the people at risk here? There is no evidence that inclusionary bathroom policies result in an increase in assault or threat to non-trans people on the other hand, a report by the US Department of Justice said transgender people are the ones most at risk of sexual assault and harassment. Citing recent studies of transgender experiences, the report said one in every two transgender individuals are sexually abused or assaulted during their lifetimes.

Considering how this debate is clearly aligned with political and religious affiliation, with people married to their particular ideology and the current state of left/right polarization, it is a shame to see the lives of children who are already in distress used as a cudgel with little regard for how they’re affected.

To quote someone far smarter than me, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

To address your other concern - political and religious affiliations - those ARE Constitutionally guaranteed, unlike the right to use a bathroom.You may be confusing "rights" with "Constitutional guarantees", They are not the same thing, but it is a common misconception.  I am of the opinion that gender neutral bathrooms in addition to traditional bathrooms are the only way to accommodate all parties concerned, which really is just about everyone who ever has to use a bathroom, now isn't it?

.

(10-29-2021, 04:59 AM)Freija Wrote:

Pointessa Wrote:I in no way want to be rude, I could care less about your sexuality. I don't really care about anyone's gender identity. What I am more concerned with is people that want to perpetuate ANY sort of victimology narrative for a group of people. It is truly a disservice.

Not to be rude either but I think perhaps your privilege is showing? Either that or you lack a degree of insight into minority perspectives or truly believe discrimination and or oppression for some groups really isn’t a thing?

pointessa Wrote:… As a young, attractive woman I had multiple stories I could use to create my status as a victim. As an addict, no longer practicing, I could claim victimhood and make it my familiar life narrative. I have been raped, I was a victim when the incident happened then it was over and life goes on but I am not making a lifestyle of it. A story I keep telling myself, looking for confirmations of this in my reality. Looking for atta boys because something happened to me that I didn't want to happen.

Congratulations! Here’s your atta boy for rising above.

Snark aside, I hear what you’re saying but some people aren’t as strong and resilient as others and some people that are traumatized in some way never really get over it and their victimization does become part of their narrative. In either case our experiences become part of our story or you wouldn’t have shared yours but how they’re responded to varies from person to person and some aren’t fortunate enough to be able to move on especially if the situations victimizing them in the first place are ongoing. Rather than vilify them for their weakness or help to lift them up, at least try to walk a mile in their shoes, show a little empathy and recognize one’s own privilege.

Pointessa\ Wrote:I believe that I should treat others as I would want to be treated. If as a culture we find that not to be a case, we work to correct.

How? I think one of those ways is by pointing out inequalities and injustice through educating and advocating for those that aren’t being treated how they would want others to treat them which explains why I’m even participating in this thread. In an obviously right-leaning, conservative venue such as this that borders on being an echo chamber of like-minded individuals most of the time, if I can add a different perspective into the conversation to maybe make people expand their thinking or better understand issues that most people have no personal experience with other than Fox News or cesspits like ATS and the like, then I feel I’m doing my part to do something positive to help even if it falls on deaf ears and makes me unpopular.

Pointessa Wrote:We live in a culture that rewards victims...think about that. I have read accounts of young women pursuing gender change because they saw the support and approval others got, not because they had spent a lifetime feeling they were another gender. What does that say about our culture?

Here’s what that says about our culture – it’s as misogynistic, sexist and broken as it’s ever been, modern feminism is cancer based on victimization and the pressures on young women today to be Instagram beautiful or TicTok famous are tremendous and extraordinarily damaging. As a “young, attractive woman” you should know well what it feels like to have your body sexualized by the male gaze and how creepy and traumatizing that can be especially if sexually assaulted so is it any wonder some young girls want to escape or disassociate from that entirely by becoming boys? It is unfortunate and sad evidence of what little progress humanity has made.

Girls are also more likely to have eating disorders, depression, anxiety and self-harm too and all I can say is I feel damn lucky the child I raised grew up before the internet because if I was a parent of a young girl today, I’d be terrified. It is unfortunate that being trans or non-binary has replaced emo, goth, punk, grunge etc. as the cool thing to be but I know as fact that beyond cultural and social influences and pressures, there are a rare minority of children that truly are gender dysphoric and suffering and I feel great compassion for their plight.

Pointessa Wrote:I have a tendency towards righteous indignation, but it really is not helpful.. I don't get to control the behavior of others, I am not better, worse or anything else. The best that I can do is to defend another if they need it in a given situation, to listen to them. Perpetuation and promotion of victim hood is the biggest disservice you can do any group.

So who exactly is playing the victim card here? Straight white Christian middle-class schoolgirls that might have to pee in a private stall next to a trans girl doing the same or a disenfranchised and misunderstood minority with a legitimately diagnosable medical condition whose treatment by society needs to be handled better?

You talk about trying to stand up and to defend when a situation calls for it. That's all I'm doing.

Just out of curiosity, do you represent the rights of those that choose not to get vaccinations. After all, they are the current group to hate? There may be some that are weak and could use your ability to look out for others in the quest of equality? Thanks for taking the time to respond.

By all means, I agree that we should help those that may need help if they ask for help. You can feed a hungry man by giving him food for the day, or teach him how to garden and provide seeds and provide food for life. Which one is better off in the long run?

(10-29-2021, 04:57 AM)Freija Wrote: What “rights” are being “run roughshod” over exactly? Would you care to elaborate?

Here is a lengthy but pretty good analysis and constitutional review of these “rights”.

Constitutional Privacy and the Fight Over Access to Sex-Segregated Spaces

I finally got to read the analysis. It seemed overly convoluted, but that is common to nearly all legal analyses. It creates a "constitutionally protected right" where none is actually Constitutionally specified, and them proceeds to destroy that right. What I took from it is that students have no more rights than prisoners, whose rights are routinely violated and even eliminated.

That then leaves us with the necessity of parents defending their childrens' rights in the best way they can, as the courts can no longer be trusted to do so, and in fact that is what is happening now in Loudoun County, with a great number of parents simply removing their children from a school system that they perceive to no longer be protecting or serving their kids - not just over the trans restroom issue, but over a plethora of issues where the school system is falling short. It's just that the bathroom issue is currently the loudest and most up-front aspect in the news cycle.

So, I suppose the final takeaway is that none of us have any rights at all that we are not willing to defend and enforce ourselves, which is something I have already been saying for years now, and so that comes as no surprise to me.

.

(10-29-2021, 04:37 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-29-2021, 04:57 AM)Freija Wrote: What “rights” are being “run roughshod” over exactly? Would you care to elaborate?

Here is a lengthy but pretty good analysis and constitutional review of these “rights”.

Constitutional Privacy and the Fight Over Access to Sex-Segregated Spaces

I finally got to read the analysis. It seemed overly convoluted, but that is common to nearly all legal analyses. It creates a "constitutionally protected right" where none is actually Constitutionally specified, and them proceeds to destroy that right. What I took from it is that students have no more rights than prisoners, whose rights are routinely violated and even eliminated.

That then leaves us with the necessity of parents defending their childrens' rights in the best way they can, as the courts can no longer be trusted to do so, and in fact that is what is happening now in Loudoun County, with a great number of parents simply removing their children from a school system that they perceive to no longer be protecting or serving their kids - not just over the trans restroom issue, but over a plethora of issues where the school system is falling short. It's just that the bathroom issue is currently the loudest and most up-front aspect in the news cycle.

So, I suppose the final takeaway is that none of us have any rights at all that we are not willing to defend and enforce ourselves, which is something I have already been saying for years now, and so that comes as no surprise to me.

.

That is what My Husband said also, he agrees with you,,,,(I wonder why, LOL)

I translated the Analysis given in the post into Mandarin so I could read and better understand her reply.

(10-29-2021, 05:16 PM)guohua Wrote: That is what My Husband said also, he agrees with you,,,,(I wonder why, LOL)

I translated the Analysis given in the post into Mandarin so I could read and better understand her reply.

Clearly it's because he's a hyper-intelligent man who has had a rich lifetime of experience having to wrestle with a bureaucracy that just doesn't give a shit about it's citizenry, and so he has had to learn legalese as a means of self-defense, law-jutsu I suppose!



I'd be interested to hear how well American Legalese translates into Mandarin - it doesn't translate into English well at all, and one has to be almost a native speaker of Legalese to make heads or tails of it!



.

(10-29-2021, 07:35 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-29-2021, 05:16 PM)guohua Wrote: That is what My Husband said also, he agrees with you,,,,(I wonder why, LOL)

I translated the Analysis given in the post into Mandarin so I could read and better understand her reply.

Clearly it's because he's a hyper-intelligent man who has had a rich lifetime of experience having to wrestle with a bureaucracy that just doesn't give a shit about it's citizenry, and so he has had to learn legalese as a means of self-defense, law-jutsu I suppose!



I'd be interested to hear how well American Legalese translates into Mandarin - it doesn't translate into English well at all, and one has to be almost a native speaker of Legalese to make heads or tails of it!



.

Yes, 42 years of Bureaucratic Bull Shit and Back Stabbing.

Quote:I'd be interested to hear how well American Legalese translates into Mandarin - it doesn't translate into English well at all, and one has to be almost a native speaker of Legalese to make heads or tails of it!

It didn't.
Under the current Regime in China, the LGBT+ community has gone into hiding.
To include Vloggers/Youtubers and Actors / Actresses.
You will be and act the sex you were assigned at Birth and Chins has no Sexual Orientations Pronoun problem, you are Male or Female.
Their birth certificates do not allow an "X" to determine the sex.

You only have Women and Men bathrooms.
If a young man had wore a dress and entered the girls bathroom and molested or raped a female, he would have been executed that afternoon.
China now has reeducation and other camps for their outspoken LGBT+ citizens and their families if they protest the arrest.

It is not that I agree but you have to remember, I was born, raised and educated during the Mao Regime and I understand their way of thinking.
I do believe as an American that people have the right to be Honest with themselves, but without harming or interrupting the lives of others.