California is just Fucked-Up

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

No one so condescending will believe anything other than what they already believe (that attitude). I won't argue my belief and try to defend it, it is what it is, and personal attacks on my intelligence or character won't drag me into that "debate". So go a head and make some more snide remarks, have the last word, I will no longer respond. Feel free to continue to do the superior dance while I ignore you.

[Freija]

Back from the Land of Nod to pick up where I left off…

@"Michigan Swamp Buck"   Thanks.  
_________________________

@Ninurta
What an excellent response and an attitude I have much respect for. Others could learn from you.

I won’t go into a tit-for-tat reply but did want to expand a bit on one or two of your thoughts. Firstly on the old dog/new tricks thing. I am sixty-six. Are you that much older than me?

Gender and sex have traditionally been used interchangeably until more recently because 99.3% of the time, they meant the same thing and were in alignment but once the whole trans thing entered the discourse, the need for some differentiation became crucial because the very definition of trans is a misalignment between the two. It’s not really that hard.

Secondly, on your concept of “major”… Yes, I am who I am and have always been and there’s no debate about that but I have been through some extraordinary things that for most of my life I more or less disassociated and distanced myself from up until about when I was sixty and realized there were others like me and that I was not alone in my uniqueness.

This also more or less coincides with the “trans tipping point”, Laverne Cox on the cover of Time Magazine and the trans discourse entering my awareness. It became all a bit much to ignore and I honestly did not know what transgender even was and had to look up the meaning of the word and how it was used and who these transgender people were and what they were about. I was actually pretty alarmed.

Part of my history might explain my ignorance? As a child, I had no concept of why I was a girl born with a penis and had no words to describe things and thought I was some kind of a freak or an anomaly with a birth defect and that there was no one else like me in the whole world. That feeling of being the “only one” isolated me and the deep-seated need to express myself so that others would understand me the same way I understood myself created nothing but havoc in my young life not only for me but for my parents as well. Nevertheless I persisted without having any idea of why I was in the predicament I was in or how to communicate the problem other than just to be what I knew myself to be.

Consequently, I was never seen as a normal boy, was never accepted as one and never fit in as one all the while not understanding what any of this really meant. I never really went through some sort of boy to girl transition like we think of in today’s terms so when I started living more fully and openly as a girl at fifteen and my family referred to me with she/her pronouns and called me by a different name, it was just a natural and organic progression of what I’d just grown up to be but I still didn’t understand it – it just was.

Segue to next 50+ years of my life.

It wasn’t until I was seventeen that I learned there was a name for people like me and that something could be done about it but the early 1970s weren’t exactly enlightened times so the approach was to blend in, be nothing less than binary and perfectly feminine, attracted to the opposite gender (i.e. same sex) and to keep your head down and keep your mouth shut. In other words, be normal and quietly fit into the cisgender heterosexual paradigm without making waves and keeping things on the down low.

Since all this came naturally to me and it was impossible and always had been for me to blend in or fit into the world as a boy, that’s what I did and have done for the remainder of my life. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being transsexual but it is kind of embarrassing or maybe complicated is a better word and it is not something I wish to have known about me in the real world because it invariably changes other’s perception and in most cases, not in a good way so if you will, I’ve remained hidden and in the closet about my history or to use a trans term, been stealth.

That is until six or so years ago on ATS where I met a young member there that helped me more or less become better accepting of the things I dealt with and went through as a child because she had grown up the same way and been through the same things. Having never met someone of such similar circumstance, it was an epiphany and revolutionary.

As she was countering the prevalent anti-trans bias and hate endemic to that community, she encouraged me to join her in her quest to spread some actual knowledge and information straight from the horse’s mouth as it were and I begrudgingly began to do so. With so much misinformation, hearsay, rumor and myth which causes the fear, prejudice and hate surrounding the whole trans topic, I found value in helping others have a better understanding of the issues involved feeling that education and knowledge about the lives and experiences of “true” transsexuals better served to improve the understanding of others more than spouting transgender ideology, rhetoric and activism ever could. I received many private messages from people thanking me for helping them see things from a better perspective.

Yes, I am who I am but that also includes what I’ve been through in life that has undeniably shaped my views, opinions, perspectives and experiences. I’m not out to change people’s minds or shove anything down people’s throats. I realize that many if not most people aren’t receptive to things that upset their apple cart but there are those willing to learn given the right information that might reevaluate or reconsider their position in these matters and come to a better understanding of them.

I have been very fortunate and privileged and perhaps because of my successes and invisibility, also maybe a little guilty for not doing more to help others of my tribe and the least I can do is speak up when things get out of hand or go sideways when I can do so online anonymously. You have no idea what it’s like to sit through a hate and ignorance filled anti-trans conversation in a redneck dive bar without saying anything or the kind of fear and apprehension of repercussions I might be subject to if I was out and open about being one of those fucking tranny faggots. Let me assure you it is not pleasant or a comfortable situation to be in and I feel like a traitor and a coward but having been assaulted several times and nearly beaten to death as a teenager for being different, I have to be pretty cautious about my surroundings.

Online, that is not the case and why I even bring it up here. If I were indeed an activist, I could have started a dozen threads on this topic but I have only gotten involved when someone else brings it up. I got involved in this thread because right off the bat, I could see where it was going to go. No more boys and girls? What were those crazy tranners and radical gender abolitionists going to come up with next was inferred along with the downfall of traditional society and by some leap, Marxists and Commies and I wanted to maybe distance myself from the madness or set the record straight that just because someone happens to be trans that they are the ones pushing for this sort of thing.

Again Mr. Ninurta, I appreciate the dialog.
_________________________

@Guohua

Thank you for your interesting comments and thoughts about reincarnation. I’ve thought about this myself and my own mother thought there may be some sort of karma involved. Like maybe I was a man in a former life and did something terrible to a woman that forced me to come back as a male and go through a lot of shit to become a woman? Like being trans was punishment for something I did in a former life or something like that? Or maybe this was my last time around and something I needed to experience before reaching the highest plane? Many have told me I am an old soul.

I am not a religious or even a spiritual person but nevertheless, I’ve always had a female heart and soul or spirit if you will that was simply undeniable and irrepressible. I’ve never really sought answers or an explanation for this, it’s just something that's just always been.

[Wallfire]

Back from the Land of Nod to pick up where I left off…

@"Michigan Swamp Buck"   Thanks.  
_________________________

@Ninurta
What an excellent response and an attitude I have much respect for. Others could learn from you.

I won’t go into a tit-for-tat reply but did want to expand a bit on one or two of your thoughts. Firstly on the old dog/new tricks thing. I am sixty-six. Are you that much older than me?

Gender and sex have traditionally been used interchangeably until more recently because 99.3% of the time, they meant the same thing and were in alignment but once the whole trans thing entered the discourse, the need for some differentiation became crucial because the very definition of trans is a misalignment between the two. It’s not really that hard.

Secondly, on your concept of “major”… Yes, I am who I am and have always been and there’s no debate about that but I have been through some extraordinary things that for most of my life I more or less disassociated and distanced myself from up until about when I was sixty and realized there were others like me and that I was not alone in my uniqueness.

This also more or less coincides with the “trans tipping point”, Laverne Cox on the cover of Time Magazine and the trans discourse entering my awareness. It became all a bit much to ignore and I honestly did not know what transgender even was and had to look up the meaning of the word and how it was used and who these transgender people were and what they were about. I was actually pretty alarmed.

Part of my history might explain my ignorance? As a child, I had no concept of why I was a girl born with a penis and had no words to describe things and thought I was some kind of a freak or an anomaly with a birth defect and that there was no one else like me in the whole world. That feeling of being the “only one” isolated me and the deep-seated need to express myself so that others would understand me the same way I understood myself created nothing but havoc in my young life not only for me but for my parents as well. Nevertheless I persisted without having any idea of why I was in the predicament I was in or how to communicate the problem other than just to be what I knew myself to be.

Consequently, I was never seen as a normal boy, was never accepted as one and never fit in as one all the while not understanding what any of this really meant. I never really went through some sort of boy to girl transition like we think of in today’s terms so when I started living more fully and openly as a girl at fifteen and my family referred to me with she/her pronouns and called me by a different name, it was just a natural and organic progression of what I’d just grown up to be but I still didn’t understand it – it just was.

Segue to next 50+ years of my life.

It wasn’t until I was seventeen that I learned there was a name for people like me and that something could be done about it but the early 1970s weren’t exactly enlightened times so the approach was to blend in, be nothing less than binary and perfectly feminine, attracted to the opposite gender (i.e. same sex) and to keep your head down and keep your mouth shut. In other words, be normal and quietly fit into the cisgender heterosexual paradigm without making waves and keeping things on the down low.

Since all this came naturally to me and it was impossible and always had been for me to blend in or fit into the world as a boy, that’s what I did and have done for the remainder of my life. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being transsexual but it is kind of embarrassing or maybe complicated is a better word and it is not something I wish to have known about me in the real world because it invariably changes other’s perception and in most cases, not in a good way so if you will, I’ve remained hidden and in the closet about my history or to use a trans term, been stealth.

That is until six or so years ago on ATS where I met a young member there that helped me more or less become better accepting of the things I dealt with and went through as a child because she had grown up the same way and been through the same things. Having never met someone of such similar circumstance, it was an epiphany and revolutionary.

As she was countering the prevalent anti-trans bias and hate endemic to that community, she encouraged me to join her in her quest to spread some actual knowledge and information straight from the horse’s mouth as it were and I begrudgingly began to do so. With so much misinformation, hearsay, rumor and myth which causes the fear, prejudice and hate surrounding the whole trans topic, I found value in helping others have a better understanding of the issues involved feeling that education and knowledge about the lives and experiences of “true” transsexuals better served to improve the understanding of others more than spouting transgender ideology, rhetoric and activism ever could. I received many private messages from people thanking me for helping them see things from a better perspective.

Yes, I am who I am but that also includes what I’ve been through in life that has undeniably shaped my views, opinions, perspectives and experiences. I’m not out to change people’s minds or shove anything down people’s throats. I realize that many if not most people aren’t receptive to things that upset their apple cart but there are those willing to learn given the right information that might reevaluate or reconsider their position in these matters and come to a better understanding of them.

I have been very fortunate and privileged and perhaps because of my successes and invisibility, also maybe a little guilty for not doing more to help others of my tribe and the least I can do is speak up when things get out of hand or go sideways when I can do so online anonymously. You have no idea what it’s like to sit through a hate and ignorance filled anti-trans conversation in a redneck dive bar without saying anything or the kind of fear and apprehension of repercussions I might be subject to if I was out and open about being one of those fucking tranny faggots. Let me assure you it is not pleasant or a comfortable situation to be in and I feel like a traitor and a coward but having been assaulted several times and nearly beaten to death as a teenager for being different, I have to be pretty cautious about my surroundings.

Online, that is not the case and why I even bring it up here. If I were indeed an activist, I could have started a dozen threads on this topic but I have only gotten involved when someone else brings it up. I got involved in this thread because right off the bat, I could see where it was going to go. No more boys and girls? What were those crazy tranners and radical gender abolitionists going to come up with next was inferred along with the downfall of traditional society and by some leap, Marxists and Commies and I wanted to maybe distance myself from the madness or set the record straight that just because someone happens to be trans that they are the ones pushing for this sort of thing.

Again Mr. Ninurta, I appreciate the dialog.
_________________________

@Guohua

Thank you for your interesting comments and thoughts about reincarnation. I’ve thought about this myself and my own mother thought there may be some sort of karma involved. Like maybe I was a man in a former life and did something terrible to a woman that forced me to come back as a male and go through a lot of shit to become a woman? Like being trans was punishment for something I did in a former life or something like that? Or maybe this was my last time around and something I needed to experience before reaching the highest plane? Many have told me I am an old soul.

I am not a religious or even a spiritual person but nevertheless, I’ve always had a female heart and soul or spirit if you will that was simply undeniable and irrepressible. I’ve never really sought answers or an explanation for this, it’s just something that's just always been.

Your answers to some of the questions are very similar to others I have heard from other people. I would postulate that you are using the "Lefts" hand book on how to answer such questions ( the way you answer is very much in the Lefts doctrine ). Last time I seen this type of thing was when the moonies trained there people to answer set questions. 
Still makes interesting reading, not very convicting reading but interesting.
But I do wonder why dont you just get on with your life and live just as you are, you like myself are way too old to be involved in things like this, just enjoy your life

[MisterSpock]

I've always pictured myself as a moderate, I'm pretty much a leave me alone person. 

The only issue's I have are between government involvement with children vs adults making their own choice. 

Outside of that, It is what it is. Though sometimes the bathrooms/locker rooms/sports thing gets a bit murky, but sadly their isn't much "hard line" stance there, It comes down to a degree of "passing" which is pretty subjective, but seems to be the real crux of the manner. 

I think alot of people have an issue when it comes to children, removing parents from the process and what is obviously an agenda(by a few, not all) in the community to pump this out in anyway they can in every outlet, that's a bit concerning, even to many in the community.

The end of the day, I don't care what any adult wants to do with their life. I don't know many that don't, eventually, agree. I'm all about being left alone. Especially when it comes to government oversight.

[Wallfire]

I've always pictured myself as a moderate, I'm pretty much a leave me alone person. 

The only issue's I have are between government involvement with children vs adults making their own choice. 

Outside of that, It is what it is. Though sometimes the bathrooms/locker rooms/sports thing gets a bit murky, but sadly their isn't much "hard line" stance there, It comes down to a degree of "passing" which is pretty subjective, but seems to be the real crux of the manner. 

I think alot of people have an issue when it comes to children, removing parents from the process and what is obviously an agenda(by a few, not all) in the community to pump this out in anyway they can in every outlet, that's a bit concerning, even to many in the community.

The end of the day, I don't care what any adult wants to do with their life. I don't know many that don't, eventually, agree. I'm all about being left alone. Especially when it comes to government oversight.

I dont and never will agree that a person can just declare themselves any sex they want then clame the rights of that sex. For a long time the Left/islam have wanted and have been pushing hard for pedophilia to be made an sexual orientation and something you can choose to be. I would say that the left/islam are using the Trans people to push this agender, and that is just unfair to Trans people

[MisterSpock]

I've always pictured myself as a moderate, I'm pretty much a leave me alone person. 

The only issue's I have are between government involvement with children vs adults making their own choice. 

Outside of that, It is what it is. Though sometimes the bathrooms/locker rooms/sports thing gets a bit murky, but sadly their isn't much "hard line" stance there, It comes down to a degree of "passing" which is pretty subjective, but seems to be the real crux of the manner. 

I think alot of people have an issue when it comes to children, removing parents from the process and what is obviously an agenda(by a few, not all) in the community to pump this out in anyway they can in every outlet, that's a bit concerning, even to many in the community.

The end of the day, I don't care what any adult wants to do with their life. I don't know many that don't, eventually, agree. I'm all about being left alone. Especially when it comes to government oversight.

I dont and never will agree that a person can just declare themselves any sex they want then clame the rights of that sex. For a long time the Left/islam have wanted and have been pushing hard for pedophilia to be made an sexual orientation and something you can choose to be. I would say that the left/islam are using the Trans people to push this agender, and that is just unfair to Trans people

To be clear, I think that anyone can "declare" (that is an adult) their chosen sex and live as such as long as they are an adult, with other consenting adults. As for the "rights" of the other, you should have obviously read that I mentioned specifically about access to spaces for genders as being an issue. As for the pedo remarks, that's never been on the table for anyone like me. You can do you, be/play as you want and live your life, as my post said. It's all off the table when it comes to kids.

[MisterSpock]

The single worst thing any "sexual" movement can do is target children. Sadly, everyone does, especially fringe groups in the LGBTQ whatever movement. 

They are, like always, making the majority of people look like a bunch of monsters. Have you heard of blair white? she's a transwoman and is constantly attacked by the lgbtq community as being outspoken against these things(the creepy pedo, trans movement). 

There are plenty of people, although scared, that do NOT agree with that crap.

ETA. The point is there are plenty of adults that just want to have their freedom that agree the exploitation of children is wrong. I have no problem, again, with an ADULT choosing to do what they want.

[F2d5thCav]

It's all off the table when it comes to kids.

And animals.  They aren't consenting adults, either.

Cheers

[MisterSpock]

It's all off the table when it comes to kids.

And animals.  They aren't consenting adults, either.

Cheers

We aren't at that point, yet. That's more of a central/southern europe issue.

Though I agree.

It all boils down to Consent, Adult and personal freedom.

[Bally002]

I guess, for the rest of my life and that of my family, we'll have to adjust and adapt as the rules change.

Why can't whacko's and their beliefs and rights adjust a little bit to our views then I'll respect them more.  Suddenly I'm not normal. 

Yeah, nah. 

My kindest regards,

Bally:)

[MisterSpock]

I guess, for the rest of my life and that of my family, we'll have to adjust and adapt as the rules change.

Why can't whacko's and their beliefs and rights adjust a little bit to our views then I'll respect them more.  Suddenly I'm not normal. 

Yeah, nah. 

My kindest regards,

Bally:)

It seems that way, especially with the way the majority of the media portrays it. 

But the reality is, you are normal, you are the majority and it's just some people that are bi/trans/gay/whatever. 

Again, if it's adults doing their thing, I don't care. And I also don't think calling us "normal" is insulting in any way. Just let them do their thing. Be aware there is a difference between the people that live their lives as they want and the commercial machine that wants to jamb it down your throat. Fight them(the commies) and their industries and leave the individuals out of it. They aren't worth the time to fight if it's just a personal life choice.

[Bally002]

I guess, for the rest of my life and that of my family, we'll have to adjust and adapt as the rules change.

Why can't whacko's and their beliefs and rights adjust a little bit to our views then I'll respect them more.  Suddenly I'm not normal. 

Yeah, nah. 

My kindest regards,

Bally:)

It seems that way, especially with the way the majority of the media portrays it. 

But the reality is, you are normal, you are the majority and it's just some people that are bi/trans/gay/whatever. 

Again, if it's adults doing their thing, I don't care. And I also don't think calling us "normal" is insulting in any way. Just let them do their thing. Be aware there is a difference between the people that live their lives as they want and the commercial machine that wants to jamb it down your throat. Fight them(the commies) and their industries and leave the individuals out of it. They aren't worth the time to fight if it's just a personal life choice.

I appreciate your view there Spocker but when regulations, rules and laws change it is obvious we are not a majority.  So, of course let whoever do their 'thing' as you say, which I respect but do0n't infringe on us by complaining, whining, protesting and lobbying for change and equality continuously.   We get it okay.

Move on.

Kind regards,

Bally :)

[MisterSpock]

I guess, for the rest of my life and that of my family, we'll have to adjust and adapt as the rules change.

Why can't whacko's and their beliefs and rights adjust a little bit to our views then I'll respect them more.  Suddenly I'm not normal. 

Yeah, nah. 

My kindest regards,

Bally:)

It seems that way, especially with the way the majority of the media portrays it. 

But the reality is, you are normal, you are the majority and it's just some people that are bi/trans/gay/whatever. 

Again, if it's adults doing their thing, I don't care. And I also don't think calling us "normal" is insulting in any way. Just let them do their thing. Be aware there is a difference between the people that live their lives as they want and the commercial machine that wants to jamb it down your throat. Fight them(the commies) and their industries and leave the individuals out of it. They aren't worth the time to fight if it's just a personal life choice.

I appreciate your view there Spocker but when regulations, rules and laws change it is obvious we are not a majority.  So, of course let whoever do their 'thing' as you say, which I respect but do0n't infringe on us by complaining, whining, protesting and lobbying for change and equality continuously.   We get it okay.

Move on.

Kind regards,

Bally :)

As usual, most people don't get my point, my point is to take the fight to those that are making it normal. You want to fight, goto those making the laws/ rules and regs(mostly straight people, btw) and focus your hatred there. 

If you are so emboldened to get physical, don't bother someone that's just doing their thing, goto the source. These people are the true destroyers of all our freedoms.

[Bally002]

I guess, for the rest of my life and that of my family, we'll have to adjust and adapt as the rules change.

Why can't whacko's and their beliefs and rights adjust a little bit to our views then I'll respect them more.  Suddenly I'm not normal. 

Yeah, nah. 

My kindest regards,

Bally:)

It seems that way, especially with the way the majority of the media portrays it. 

But the reality is, you are normal, you are the majority and it's just some people that are bi/trans/gay/whatever. 

Again, if it's adults doing their thing, I don't care. And I also don't think calling us "normal" is insulting in any way. Just let them do their thing. Be aware there is a difference between the people that live their lives as they want and the commercial machine that wants to jamb it down your throat. Fight them(the commies) and their industries and leave the individuals out of it. They aren't worth the time to fight if it's just a personal life choice.

I appreciate your view there Spocker but when regulations, rules and laws change it is obvious we are not a majority.  So, of course let whoever do their 'thing' as you say, which I respect but do0n't infringe on us by complaining, whining, protesting and lobbying for change and equality continuously.   We get it okay.

Move on.

Kind regards,

Bally :)

As usual, most people don't get my point, my point is to take the fight to those that are making it normal. You want to fight, goto those making the laws/ rules and regs(mostly straight people, btw) and focus your hatred there. 

If you are so emboldened to get physical, don't bother someone that's just doing their thing, goto the source. These people are the true destroyers of all our freedoms.

Right, I ain't stupid Spockster, I get your point and I don't have any hatred.  Maybe try getting my point, adjust, adapt and overcome.

Kind regards,

Bally:)

[Freija]

Your answers to some of the questions are very similar to others I have heard from other people. I would postulate that you are using the "Lefts" hand book on how to answer such questions ( the way you answer is very much in the Lefts doctrine ). Last time I seen this type of thing was when the moonies trained there people to answer set questions.

I wasn’t aware I was answering any questions? You can postulate all you want but I find your conclusions and assessments – the left’s handbook and a trained Moonie no less to be highly amusing and I have to admit, they gave me a chuckle and a big smile. I had to Google what the hell a Moonie even was?  Are you sure I’m not an Islamic bot, a Chinese agent or an operative of some dark cabal, the illuminati or the NWO with a script trying to infiltrate the minds of the proletariat in order to tear down the fabric of society. Jesus, man! Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Still makes interesting reading, not very convicting reading but interesting.

I’m curious to know what you found to be not very convincing or what you thought I was trying to convince anyone of? At any rate, I’m glad that you were entertained. Maybe I’ll make up some more interesting fiction to keep you amused? [/s]

But I do wonder why dont you just get on with your life and live just as you are, you like myself are way too old to be involved in things like this, just enjoy your life

Whatever gave you the impression I do not enjoy my life? I’ve done some amazing, unique and magical things in life and been blessed with good fortune and love as a daughter, a wife, a lover, a mother and a grandmother and have done things and seen things from a perspective few ever have or ever will. If I died tomorrow and could look back, I’d say damn, what an awesome trip. In many ways, I count myself one of the luckiest people in the world and it seems to me you are suggesting now that I got mine, I should just sit back, rest on my laurels,  take it easy and not give a shit about others because I’m old?

To me, that seems pretty selfish when I still have things to contribute that might help others that haven’t been as fortunate as I have and when it comes to the tranosphere, my history and experience and particularly because I am old and have lived a good life, it puts me into a rather rarified position to do so as even within the so called trans community itself, I am an anomaly and an anachronism because the number of Boomers that were trans as children with the love, support and understanding from their parents and family who are still alive today number in low double digits. In fact, in five or six years of looking, I haven’t found any as most weren’t as advantaged and simply didn’t make it or if they did, were decimated by AIDS, addiction and poverty due to the challenges of basic existence in what was often a difficult and toxic in a world that didn’t understand. Being a trans person isn’t easy in today’s world. Being one in the 60s, 70s and 80s was something else.

Thanks to trans activism and the pushback against it there is so much ignorant bullshit out there about people like me that does nothing but make their lives harder and more challenging and if I can help one person to become more knowledgeable and understanding of the trans condition, especially that of trans youth i.e. the primary or true type trans by sharing my story and letting folks draw their own conclusions, then I can feel like I’ve done something to help and sleep well at night.

Wally, what have you done or do for your people? Oh wait, what needs to be done and you’re too old to care anymore anyway, right? The least I can do is occasionally post on a stupid internet forum even if it’s at my own expense and risk of being disliked even though most consider me a friendly and nice person and for the most part I try to not be obnoxious or in your face. Some things are just bigger and more important than me and this is one of them. I’m sorry if that bothers anyone.
___________________

OMG! This thread exploded while I was writing and watching Netflix and many good points were raised I would like respond to but goddammit, it’s 2:55 in the morning and my eyeballs are shot. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion in a reasonable manner and will be back with more sometime tomorrow.

Thanks!

[Wallfire]

Your answers to some of the questions are very similar to others I have heard from other people. I would postulate that you are using the "Lefts" hand book on how to answer such questions ( the way you answer is very much in the Lefts doctrine ). Last time I seen this type of thing was when the moonies trained there people to answer set questions.

I wasn’t aware I was answering any questions? You can postulate all you want but I find your conclusions and assessments – the left’s handbook and a trained Moonie no less to be highly amusing and I have to admit, they gave me a chuckle and a big smile. I had to Google what the hell a Moonie even was?  Are you sure I’m not an Islamic bot, a Chinese agent or an operative of some dark cabal, the illuminati or the NWO with a script trying to infiltrate the minds of the proletariat in order to tear down the fabric of society. Jesus, man! Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Still makes interesting reading, not very convicting reading but interesting.

I’m curious to know what you found to be not very convincing or what you thought I was trying to convince anyone of? At any rate, I’m glad that you were entertained. Maybe I’ll make up some more interesting fiction to keep you amused? [/s]

But I do wonder why dont you just get on with your life and live just as you are, you like myself are way too old to be involved in things like this, just enjoy your life

Whatever gave you the impression I do not enjoy my life? I’ve done some amazing, unique and magical things in life and been blessed with good fortune and love as a daughter, a wife, a lover, a mother and a grandmother and have done things and seen things from a perspective few ever have or ever will. If I died tomorrow and could look back, I’d say damn, what an awesome trip. In many ways, I count myself one of the luckiest people in the world and it seems to me you are suggesting now that I got mine, I should just sit back, rest on my laurels,  take it easy and not give a shit about others because I’m old?

To me, that seems pretty selfish when I still have things to contribute that might help others that haven’t been as fortunate as I have and when it comes to the tranosphere, my history and experience and particularly because I am old and have lived a good life, it puts me into a rather rarified position to do so as even within the so called trans community itself, I am an anomaly and an anachronism because the number of Boomers that were trans as children with the love, support and understanding from their parents and family who are still alive today number in low double digits. In fact, in five or six years of looking, I haven’t found any as most weren’t as advantaged and simply didn’t make it or if they did, were decimated by AIDS, addiction and poverty due to the challenges of basic existence in what was often a difficult and toxic in a world that didn’t understand. Being a trans person isn’t easy in today’s world. Being one in the 60s, 70s and 80s was something else.

Thanks to trans activism and the pushback against it there is so much ignorant bullshit out there about people like me that does nothing but make their lives harder and more challenging and if I can help one person to become more knowledgeable and understanding of the trans condition, especially that of trans youth i.e. the primary or true type trans by sharing my story and letting folks draw their own conclusions, then I can feel like I’ve done something to help and sleep well at night.

Wally, what have you done or do for your people? Oh wait, what needs to be done and you’re too old to care anymore anyway, right? The least I can do is occasionally post on a stupid internet forum even if it’s at my own expense and risk of being disliked even though most consider me a friendly and nice person and for the most part I try to not be obnoxious or in your face. Some things are just bigger and more important than me and this is one of them. I’m sorry if that bothers anyone.
___________________

OMG! This thread exploded while I was writing and watching Netflix and many good points were raised I would like respond to but goddammit, it’s 2:55 in the morning and my eyeballs are shot. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion in a reasonable manner and will be back with more sometime tomorrow.

Thanks!

Your answers confirm many things, but its nothing I did not already know. 

[Ninurta]

@Ninurta
What an excellent response and an attitude I have much respect for. Others could learn from you.

I won’t go into a tit-for-tat reply but did want to expand a bit on one or two of your thoughts. Firstly on the old dog/new tricks thing. I am sixty-six. Are you that much older than me?

Gender and sex have traditionally been used interchangeably until more recently because 99.3% of the time, they meant the same thing and were in alignment but once the whole trans thing entered the discourse, the need for some differentiation became crucial because the very definition of trans is a misalignment between the two. It’s not really that hard.

Secondly, on your concept of “major”… Yes, I am who I am and have always been and there’s no debate about that but I have been through some extraordinary things that for most of my life I more or less disassociated and distanced myself from up until about when I was sixty and realized there were others like me and that I was not alone in my uniqueness.

This also more or less coincides with the “trans tipping point”, Laverne Cox on the cover of Time Magazine and the trans discourse entering my awareness. It became all a bit much to ignore and I honestly did not know what transgender even was and had to look up the meaning of the word and how it was used and who these transgender people were and what they were about. I was actually pretty alarmed.

Part of my history might explain my ignorance? As a child, I had no concept of why I was a girl born with a penis and had no words to describe things and thought I was some kind of a freak or an anomaly with a birth defect and that there was no one else like me in the whole world. That feeling of being the “only one” isolated me and the deep-seated need to express myself so that others would understand me the same way I understood myself created nothing but havoc in my young life not only for me but for my parents as well. Nevertheless I persisted without having any idea of why I was in the predicament I was in or how to communicate the problem other than just to be what I knew myself to be.

Consequently, I was never seen as a normal boy, was never accepted as one and never fit in as one all the while not understanding what any of this really meant. I never really went through some sort of boy to girl transition like we think of in today’s terms so when I started living more fully and openly as a girl at fifteen and my family referred to me with she/her pronouns and called me by a different name, it was just a natural and organic progression of what I’d just grown up to be but I still didn’t understand it – it just was.

Segue to next 50+ years of my life.

It wasn’t until I was seventeen that I learned there was a name for people like me and that something could be done about it but the early 1970s weren’t exactly enlightened times so the approach was to blend in, be nothing less than binary and perfectly feminine, attracted to the opposite gender (i.e. same sex) and to keep your head down and keep your mouth shut. In other words, be normal and quietly fit into the cisgender heterosexual paradigm without making waves and keeping things on the down low.

Since all this came naturally to me and it was impossible and always had been for me to blend in or fit into the world as a boy, that’s what I did and have done for the remainder of my life. I am neither proud nor ashamed of being transsexual but it is kind of embarrassing or maybe complicated is a better word and it is not something I wish to have known about me in the real world because it invariably changes other’s perception and in most cases, not in a good way so if you will, I’ve remained hidden and in the closet about my history or to use a trans term, been stealth.

That is until six or so years ago on ATS where I met a young member there that helped me more or less become better accepting of the things I dealt with and went through as a child because she had grown up the same way and been through the same things. Having never met someone of such similar circumstance, it was an epiphany and revolutionary.

As she was countering the prevalent anti-trans bias and hate endemic to that community, she encouraged me to join her in her quest to spread some actual knowledge and information straight from the horse’s mouth as it were and I begrudgingly began to do so. With so much misinformation, hearsay, rumor and myth which causes the fear, prejudice and hate surrounding the whole trans topic, I found value in helping others have a better understanding of the issues involved feeling that education and knowledge about the lives and experiences of “true” transsexuals better served to improve the understanding of others more than spouting transgender ideology, rhetoric and activism ever could. I received many private messages from people thanking me for helping them see things from a better perspective.

Yes, I am who I am but that also includes what I’ve been through in life that has undeniably shaped my views, opinions, perspectives and experiences. I’m not out to change people’s minds or shove anything down people’s throats. I realize that many if not most people aren’t receptive to things that upset their apple cart but there are those willing to learn given the right information that might reevaluate or reconsider their position in these matters and come to a better understanding of them.

I have been very fortunate and privileged and perhaps because of my successes and invisibility, also maybe a little guilty for not doing more to help others of my tribe and the least I can do is speak up when things get out of hand or go sideways when I can do so online anonymously. You have no idea what it’s like to sit through a hate and ignorance filled anti-trans conversation in a redneck dive bar without saying anything or the kind of fear and apprehension of repercussions I might be subject to if I was out and open about being one of those fucking tranny faggots. Let me assure you it is not pleasant or a comfortable situation to be in and I feel like a traitor and a coward but having been assaulted several times and nearly beaten to death as a teenager for being different, I have to be pretty cautious about my surroundings.

Online, that is not the case and why I even bring it up here. If I were indeed an activist, I could have started a dozen threads on this topic but I have only gotten involved when someone else brings it up. I got involved in this thread because right off the bat, I could see where it was going to go. No more boys and girls? What were those crazy tranners and radical gender abolitionists going to come up with next was inferred along with the downfall of traditional society and by some leap, Marxists and Commies and I wanted to maybe distance myself from the madness or set the record straight that just because someone happens to be trans that they are the ones pushing for this sort of thing.

Again Mr. Ninurta, I appreciate the dialog.

My apologies, because I have been drinking tonight, which makes some or your discourse difficult to follow. That's just the kinda guy I am - a drinking one. I'll re-read it tomorrow, next time for comprehension. A few things do immediately jump out, which I have no shame to respond to at the moment, however:

Firstly on the old dog/new tricks thing. I am sixty-six. Are you that much older than me?

No. I'm not that much older than you, a couple years younger in fact, I'm just more cantankerous and grouchy. I blame it on my culture and upbringings, but it's probably more likely in reality to fall to my ancestry. I come from a long line of horse thieves, cut-throats, and ne'er do wells. We are just a people that you can't do nothin' with, which has been the bane of many a wife in my life. It hasn't really been their fault, it's just the way I am.

This also more or less coincides with the “trans tipping point”, Laverne Cox on the cover of Time Magazine and the trans discourse entering my awareness. It became all a bit much to ignore and I honestly did not know what transgender even was and had to look up the meaning of the word and how it was used and who these transgender people were and what they were about. I was actually pretty alarmed. 

As you may have gathered, I tend to ignore "trans" gender. Folks are what they are, and there is no "trans" to it, in my mind. You've always been "female" from what I have gathered, and there never was a crossing or "trans-it" point, and I just accept that. Yes, you had your naughty-bits rearranged to agree with who you are, but that was not - in my mind - a "transit" so much as a realignment to conform to reality that already was... so,  no harm no foul. It just keeps my little world simpler and less contentious to think like that. I don't have to jump through hoops to figure out why a "he" became a "she" if I just accept that person always was a "she".

To be honest, I don't generally have any issues with guys who remain guys, and just chase after other guys, either. I've been around quite a number, and never had any real issues. Not my cup of tea, but they seem to already know that, and just accept that I am who I am, same as I do for them. Never had but one hit on me, I have no clue why he did because I ain't particularly pretty, but it got sorted out pretty quickly. Most have just taken me as I am, same as I do for them. I don't care who sticks what where if I ain't involved in the exchange. it ain't none of my business if they ain't blocking my walk way to do their thing.

That attitude goes all the way back to my high school days. There was a gay guy, or maybe just effeminate - I never asked -  in a program I was in that put me in college early during summers, and he was ostracized. I'd go sit in his dorm room and talk to him for hours, because to me he was just another guy, and one that was being treated unfairly. Folks would look at me sideways for that, but even at that age, I had no difficulty telling them they could kiss my ass if they didn't like how I was living. Not a damned one ever raised their hand to me, because they know that without a doubt I'd break it off and beat them with the bloody stub if they did.

People are people. The rest is just details.

I will say, however, that Grace seemed abnormally delighted when I once jokingly told her that i was "just a lesbian trapped in a man's body". I dunno why. Must be a chick thing.

Consequently, I was never seen as a normal boy

I wasn't a "normal" boy, either. I grew up with a mother and 3 younger sisters, no brothers present to fight with. The estrogen was thick. it was a fight to survive, but I learned. I like to think that having to sit through all those "girl talk" conversations had an effect on my understanding of things. Maybe not, but I like to think that all the same.

I have trouble comprehending people's innate need to label other folks, to pigeon hole them down to the minutest detail. I don't even know what I AM any more for all the labeling going on. I might be heterosexual, or I might be cisgender, or I might be some other term of the day that I am as yet unaware of. All I can say for sure is I am just me, just as you are you, and I don't see a need to fine tune it beyond that.

Likewise, I try to speak out when it appears to me that things are going pear-shaped. For example, I fought for same-sex marriage, with the caveat that no one had the right to force anyone else to do anything they didn't want to do - like, for instance, forcing a Christian to perform a wedding ceremony against their will. My take on that was again that people are people, and gay people ought to have the same rights as the rest of us, which includes the right to marry whom they will. I arrived at that conclusion after talking to some gay folks to find out WHY they were interested in marriage. I'm not interested in it, despite my history. I'd just as soon shack up as get married. I don't need governmental or religious permission. The upshot of those conversations was that it was a legal thing to them, next of kin, power of attorney, that sort of thing, and I saw no reason they should be denied what I had access to, since we were all citizens of the same damned government. Gay folks have the same legal rights as I do, or else none of us have them. BUT, just as I have no right to expect a Catholic priest to perform a Protestant marriage on my behalf, they don't have any MORE rights than me - i.e. they don't have the right to force a Christian priest or preacher to violate what he believes to be his conscience. There are other. legal, avenues of approach available, and the main thing for them was legal recognition and the legal privileges that come with it, it seems.

So, I came out in favor of gay marriage, much to the consternation of many a "Conservative". I put that in quotes because if they were truly Conservative, they would insist on other folks' rights being just as strong and inviolable as their own. That is what the nation was built upon, and they can't legitimately go back on that now and still call themselves "Conservative". They aren't conserving the foundations of the nation, equal rights for all  citizens under the law, which is what Conservatives are supposed to be all about.

I think I have drunkenly prattled on enough now. if I have anything else to add, I'll do it tomorrow, sober.

.

[Ninurta]

I appreciate your view there Spocker but when regulations, rules and laws change it is obvious we are not a majority.  So, of course let whoever do their 'thing' as you say, which I respect but do0n't infringe on us by complaining, whining, protesting and lobbying for change and equality continuously.   We get it okay.

Move on.

Kind regards,

Bally :)

Hi, Bally!

I don't know how things or law work in Oz. In my mind, it's real simple. Just "give" other folks the same rights you have, and all is well. Then it just boils down to "are you a citizen? Then you have rights" and "are they a citizen, too? Then they have rights, too", and those rights are all the same between you and "them". Different individual citizens, but the same rights under the law.

I don't really care what "they" are agitating for. As long as they have the same rights I have, they can squall all they want. I have the right to change the channel or switch the browser tab until they get it out of their system, assuming their grievances have already been properly addressed.

.

[Freija]

Well dammit!

I haven't bailed and there is so much more I want to add to this thread and things and people I want to reply to but it seems I was a little over motivated?

I spent the entire evening writing but came to the abrupt realization that nobody in their right mind was going to read the five full pages I typed in Word so I'm giving up for now and going to watch a movie in bed.

Hopefully I will be able to break this down into more manageable chunks tomorrow? I guess I have a lot to say that's worth a discussion and questions and comments I would like to know more about.

Sorry. I'm a little frustrated right now and disappointed in my verbosity.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

Yes that is My Opinion of the State of California and the Liberal Looney's that live there.
Why, you may ask?
Just read the Headlines.

California would ban boys and girls sections at big retailers under proposed law

They just can not leave people alone to live life and shop the way you want.

California’s large retailers would have to do away with boy and girl signage for toys and child care aisles, under a bill being considered by state lawmakers.
Assembly Bill 1084 would require retailers with 500 or more employees “to maintain undivided areas of its sales floor where the majority of those items being offered are displayed, regardless of whether an item has traditionally been marketed for either girls or for boys,” according to the Legislative Counsel’s digest of the bill.
The bill would also prohibit the use of signage to indicate whether a particular child care item or toy is for boys or girls. Online retailers with a physical presence in California would be required to label their toy and child care sections in a unisex or gender neutral way.

The bill, which if passed would go into effect Jan. 1, 2024, contains a provision to punish violating retailers with a $1,000 civil penalty.
The bill is co-authored by Assemblyman Evan Low, D-Campbell, who chairs the California Legislative LGBT Caucus, and Assemblywoman Cristina Garcia, D-Bell Gardens, who chairs the California Legislative Women’s Caucus.

Source

Yeah, Transgender people, we don't care if you shop in any section you want, you should not let your leaders force their ideas of a better world on others.
JMHO

I have to agree that retail stores shouldn't be coerced into arranging their shelves this way. They shouldn't have to have the ethnic designation labels for products either. The retail shopping industry has perfected their methods of how their products are displayed. They spent a lot of time and money figuring out how to stock their shelves and I find it to be easy to find things that way.

Mixing up the order of products doesn't help you find it and anything that makes the process more complicated will have a shopper go elsewhere. If this target market was so huge and important, they'd devote a whole section of their store to strictly that demographic without any laws forcing them to. They are so quick to defend a business's right to do what they want them to do, but not if a business wants to do things their own way.