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How do I say no to vax w/o completely alientating my health-care provider?
#1
You all should know me well enough by now to know that I could give any of them at least a 15-minute discourse on why I won't be taking the vaccine.  The shortest answer is, of course, "No.   F off."   However, I still need medical care because of being a transplant recipient.  

Which of these would be the best:

(1)  "No.  Get back to me when they restore legal liability to the vaccine manufacturer."  It shuts down all argument, or at least it should.  I'd just keep repeating it until they shut the hell up.
(2)  "No.  Given my history of allergic reactions, a letter from Post Transplant ('we can neither vouch for the safety nor efficacy of these vaccines in transplant recipients'), and the data showing up on VAERS, I don't think it's in my best interests.  At all."    Leaves conversation open for argumention which I'm not at all interested in, but does give medical reasons for not doing it.  May come in handy later.
(3) "No.   Do you guys get kickbacks for these things? Or is percentage of patients vaccinated reflected in your performance appraisal or something?"   I'd have to find a new doctor in all likelihood.
(4) "No.  I'm concerned about allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, the complete lack of knowledge of long-term side effects, the past history of SARS-coronavirus vaccines (animal deaths), in particular pathogenic priming and the results when exposed to another strain.  AstraZeneca had their last little sliver of legal liability removed because they said they shouldn't be held responsible for side effects they may discover in FOUR YEARS.

I really am not willing to be lectured like a 6 y/o nor endure eye-rolling, etc.  I'm angry, and there's a good chance my mouth editor would fail if I discussed it...which would be pointless anyway.  They will never convince me it's safe, and I will never convince them that at this point, they're behaving more like a cult than scientists.   Should I just stick with #1 or go with #2 or 4 in case I have to try to get an exemption at some point?
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#2
All the reasons you posted sound good to me. 

All I can do is tell you what I told my doctor when he kept trying to push a flu shot on me every year. 
I told him I was more into Homeopathy, and prefer not to take pharmaceuticals if at all possible. I said it in a very stern voice that let him know he wasn't going to change my mind. 

He still asks me every year, but I think he is required to. I say no, and he says okay with no argument. Last year he even agreed with me. Said they never knew if it would work or not anyway.
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#3
(02-11-2021, 06:10 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: All the reasons you posted sound good to me. 

All I can do is tell you what I told my doctor when he kept trying to push a flu shot on me every year. 
I told him I was more into Homeopathy, and prefer not to take pharmaceuticals if at all possible. I said it in a very stern voice that let him know he wasn't going to change my mind. 

He still asks me every year, but I think he is required to. I say no, and he says okay with no argument. Last year he even agreed with me. Said they never knew if it would work or not anyway.

He's more honest than 95 percent of them.
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#4
What we're seeing currently are vaccine trials, none of the vaccines have been thoroughly tested on humans, Pfizer's trial doesn't end until January 31 2023. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be a guinea pig participating in a drug test unless I'm being paid hansomely for it.
I am WonderCow....hear me moo!
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#5
(02-11-2021, 06:25 PM)WonderCow Wrote: What we're seeing currently are vaccine trials, none of the vaccines have been thoroughly tested on humans, Pfizer's trial doesn't end until January 31 2023. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be a guinea pig participating in a drug test unless I'm being paid hansomely for it.

Most definitely.  

Frankly, I wouldn't take any amount to participate in it.  I know what severe suffering is like first hand and trust me.  No amount of money would make up for it.   It doesn't matter if you're wealthy and every conscious moment is hellish.

What do you think would be the best route to take with my GP? I like Mystic Wanderer's idea on tone of voice. That may be as important as whichever one I choose, but man. I am just really dreading the day I have to do this. Unless I die of something else first, it'll happen. Maybe it wouldn't if people starting dropping dead by the thousands post-vax, but I'm not sure they just wouldn't cover it up anyway.
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#6
I told my doctor because of the lack of animal testing and due to previous severe allergic reactions on my part that I wasn't interested in the vaccine. He whole heartedly agreed. 
"As an American it's your responsibility to have your own strategic duck stockpile. You can't expect the government to do it for you." - the dork I call one of my mom's other kids
[Image: Tiny-Ducks.jpg]
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#7
Another option may be to point out that legally, this "vaccine" is not a vaccine at all, it is "gene therapy", an unproven concept, and one for which legal liabilities should not be removed while all of humanity is still in the guinea pig stage of being experimented upon for gene therapies.

Link to information

.
“The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.”

-Aldous Huxley

-- Got mask? Just sayin'...




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#8
Have a look through the information in this study 
May be there is something that will help you.
I am WonderCow....hear me moo!
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#9
Prepare yourself for the hard sell. I had a 45 minute lecture from my civilian doctor trying to sell me on the vaccine.

I finally ended the conversation with, "You do know that we will be here until tomorrow night, and you will not have convinced me to take the vaccine"? He left me with, "Think about it." I left him with, "I did, that is why I am not taking it."

And that is all I tell everyone that asks me if they should take the vaccine. "Think about it".

The biggest drawback for me is that the vaccine is an fast tracked, experimental drug, given the okay by a government agency for emergency use. So what does that make the recipient? I say it makes them a lab rat or a guinea pig. But that is just how I see it.
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#10
(02-11-2021, 11:02 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Prepare yourself for the hard sell. I had a 45 minute lecture from my civilian doctor trying to sell me on the vaccine.

I finally ended the conversation with, "You do know that we will be here until tomorrow night, and you will not have convinced me to take the vaccine"? He left me with, "Think about it." I left him with, "I did, that is why I am not taking it."

And that is all I tell everyone that asks me if they should take the vaccine. "Think about it".

The biggest drawback for me is that the vaccine is an fast tracked, experimental drug, given the okay by a government agency for emergency use. So what does that make the recipient? I say it makes them a lab rat or a guinea pig. But that is just how I see it.

45 minutes?  Thanks for the warning.  I don't think she'd do that, because they are consistently overbooked, but I appreciate the heads up.I'll be prepared to just walk out.  As my husband is fond of pointing out, if you're not under arrest, you can leave.

Geez, how do you have the patience?

That kind of moves me to using #1, to just shut down the "discussion" asap.  Would be easy to use "attempted coercion" in place of "discussion".
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#11
Definately coercion. But I have known him for over 30 years, and we used to work together, a long ways back. 

We have always had that knocking heads type of relationship. Lots of battle, with humor, love, and respect.

But he was not going to talk me into taking the vaccine, and deep down inside he knew he was not going to win on that one.
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#12
IDK...be gentle. 

It's not you, it's me. I need space to grow. You deserve more stability. We will always be friends.
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#13
(02-12-2021, 12:55 AM)ABNARTY Wrote: IDK...be gentle. 

It's not you, it's me. I need space to grow. You deserve more stability. We will always be friends.

Is that what I'm supposed to say when I end the physician-patient relationship?  :) 

Treating others with as much gentleness as possible is good advice....which is probably why I should just use #1 with a smile and as much gentleness as I can muster.  Then increase the tone if that fails.
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#14
(02-12-2021, 12:54 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Definately coercion. But I have known him for over 30 years, and we used to work together, a long ways back. 

We have always had that knocking heads type of relationship. Lots of battle, with humor, love, and respect.

But he was not going to talk me into taking the vaccine, and deep down inside he knew he was not going to win on that one.

And even though he knew, he still tried because he's that much of a True Believer.
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#15
(02-11-2021, 06:25 PM)WonderCow Wrote: What we're seeing currently are vaccine trials, none of the vaccines have been thoroughly tested on humans, Pfizer's trial doesn't end until January 31 2023. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be a guinea pig participating in a drug test unless I'm being paid hansomely for it.

I just reread this and realized the date you mentioned.   Wow.
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#16
(02-11-2021, 06:01 PM)drussell41 Wrote: You all should know me well enough by now to know that I could give any of them at least a 15-minute discourse on why I won't be taking the vaccine.  The shortest answer is, of course, "No.   F off."   However, I still need medical care because of being a transplant recipient.  

Which of these would be the best:

(1)  "No.  Get back to me when they restore legal liability to the vaccine manufacturer."  It shuts down all argument, or at least it should.  I'd just keep repeating it until they shut the hell up.
(2)  "No.  Given my history of allergic reactions, a letter from Post Transplant ('we can neither vouch for the safety nor efficacy of these vaccines in transplant recipients'), and the data showing up on VAERS, I don't think it's in my best interests.  At all."    Leaves conversation open for argumention which I'm not at all interested in, but does give medical reasons for not doing it.  May come in handy later.
(3) "No.   Do you guys get kickbacks for these things? Or is percentage of patients vaccinated reflected in your performance appraisal or something?"   I'd have to find a new doctor in all likelihood.
(4) "No.  I'm concerned about allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, the complete lack of knowledge of long-term side effects, the past history of SARS-coronavirus vaccines (animal deaths), in particular pathogenic priming and the results when exposed to another strain.  AstraZeneca had their last little sliver of legal liability removed because they said they shouldn't be held responsible for side effects they may discover in FOUR YEARS.

I really am not willing to be lectured like a 6 y/o nor endure eye-rolling, etc.  I'm angry, and there's a good chance my mouth editor would fail if I discussed it...which would be pointless anyway.  They will never convince me it's safe, and I will never convince them that at this point, they're behaving more like a cult than scientists.   Should I just stick with #1 or go with #2 or 4 in case I have to try to get an exemption at some point?


How COVID-19 Vaccine Can Destroy Your Immune System



“COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralizing antibodies may sensitize vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated.”


"by getting the vaccine they may end up with more severe COVID-19 once they’re infected with the virus"


There is no logic to take the vaccine tinywondering....

And there is good other treatments to use in case of getting sick, so no need to take vaccine.
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#17
(02-12-2021, 09:34 AM)drussell41 Wrote: And even though he knew, he still tried because he's that much of a True Believer.

I think he just likes debating me. 

We have been down this road before. Not with vaccines, but with other things. 

I really like him, and I respect his skills, but from the time we first met, we were butting heads.

He is a real head strong pitbull, and does not back down easily. I am a quiet, determined Tasmanian Devil, and he knows it, so I think he does it for fun.
[Image: attachment.php?aid=8192]




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#18
(02-12-2021, 10:44 AM)Kenzo Wrote:
(02-11-2021, 06:01 PM)drussell41 Wrote: You all should know me well enough by now to know that I could give any of them at least a 15-minute discourse on why I won't be taking the vaccine.  The shortest answer is, of course, "No.   F off."   However, I still need medical care because of being a transplant recipient.  

Which of these would be the best:

(1)  "No.  Get back to me when they restore legal liability to the vaccine manufacturer."  It shuts down all argument, or at least it should.  I'd just keep repeating it until they shut the hell up.
(2)  "No.  Given my history of allergic reactions, a letter from Post Transplant ('we can neither vouch for the safety nor efficacy of these vaccines in transplant recipients'), and the data showing up on VAERS, I don't think it's in my best interests.  At all."    Leaves conversation open for argumention which I'm not at all interested in, but does give medical reasons for not doing it.  May come in handy later.
(3) "No.   Do you guys get kickbacks for these things? Or is percentage of patients vaccinated reflected in your performance appraisal or something?"   I'd have to find a new doctor in all likelihood.
(4) "No.  I'm concerned about allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, the complete lack of knowledge of long-term side effects, the past history of SARS-coronavirus vaccines (animal deaths), in particular pathogenic priming and the results when exposed to another strain.  AstraZeneca had their last little sliver of legal liability removed because they said they shouldn't be held responsible for side effects they may discover in FOUR YEARS.

I really am not willing to be lectured like a 6 y/o nor endure eye-rolling, etc.  I'm angry, and there's a good chance my mouth editor would fail if I discussed it...which would be pointless anyway.  They will never convince me it's safe, and I will never convince them that at this point, they're behaving more like a cult than scientists.   Should I just stick with #1 or go with #2 or 4 in case I have to try to get an exemption at some point?


How COVID-19 Vaccine Can Destroy Your Immune System



“COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralizing antibodies may sensitize vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated.”


"by getting the vaccine they may end up with more severe COVID-19 once they’re infected with the virus"


There is no logic to take the vaccine tinywondering....

And there is good other treatments to use in case of getting sick, so no need to take vaccine.

Yeah, I know it.  That's what happened in the animal trials. Problem is the Vaccine Cult and how to deal with them when you still need to get medical care for other issues.
Reply
#19
(02-12-2021, 02:03 PM)drussell41 Wrote:
(02-12-2021, 10:44 AM)Kenzo Wrote:
(02-11-2021, 06:01 PM)drussell41 Wrote: You all should know me well enough by now to know that I could give any of them at least a 15-minute discourse on why I won't be taking the vaccine.  The shortest answer is, of course, "No.   F off."   However, I still need medical care because of being a transplant recipient.  

Which of these would be the best:

(1)  "No.  Get back to me when they restore legal liability to the vaccine manufacturer."  It shuts down all argument, or at least it should.  I'd just keep repeating it until they shut the hell up.
(2)  "No.  Given my history of allergic reactions, a letter from Post Transplant ('we can neither vouch for the safety nor efficacy of these vaccines in transplant recipients'), and the data showing up on VAERS, I don't think it's in my best interests.  At all."    Leaves conversation open for argumention which I'm not at all interested in, but does give medical reasons for not doing it.  May come in handy later.
(3) "No.   Do you guys get kickbacks for these things? Or is percentage of patients vaccinated reflected in your performance appraisal or something?"   I'd have to find a new doctor in all likelihood.
(4) "No.  I'm concerned about allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, the complete lack of knowledge of long-term side effects, the past history of SARS-coronavirus vaccines (animal deaths), in particular pathogenic priming and the results when exposed to another strain.  AstraZeneca had their last little sliver of legal liability removed because they said they shouldn't be held responsible for side effects they may discover in FOUR YEARS.

I really am not willing to be lectured like a 6 y/o nor endure eye-rolling, etc.  I'm angry, and there's a good chance my mouth editor would fail if I discussed it...which would be pointless anyway.  They will never convince me it's safe, and I will never convince them that at this point, they're behaving more like a cult than scientists.   Should I just stick with #1 or go with #2 or 4 in case I have to try to get an exemption at some point?


How COVID-19 Vaccine Can Destroy Your Immune System



“COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralizing antibodies may sensitize vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated.”


"by getting the vaccine they may end up with more severe COVID-19 once they’re infected with the virus"


There is no logic to take the vaccine tinywondering....

And there is good other treatments to use in case of getting sick, so no need to take vaccine.

Yeah, I know it.  That's what happened in the animal trials. Problem is the Vaccine Cult and how to deal with them when you still need to get medical care for other issues.

Yeeh, I really fail to understand people who demand getting the Rona vaccine, It look`s more like extermination campaign and not something that help in health .

Sorry previous message partly dark again.....I am wondering has the CIA direct controll of my keyboard tinywhat bigfrightened.....
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#20
(02-12-2021, 02:29 PM)Kenzo Wrote:
(02-12-2021, 02:03 PM)drussell41 Wrote:
(02-12-2021, 10:44 AM)Kenzo Wrote:
(02-11-2021, 06:01 PM)drussell41 Wrote: You all should know me well enough by now to know that I could give any of them at least a 15-minute discourse on why I won't be taking the vaccine.  The shortest answer is, of course, "No.   F off."   However, I still need medical care because of being a transplant recipient.  

Which of these would be the best:

(1)  "No.  Get back to me when they restore legal liability to the vaccine manufacturer."  It shuts down all argument, or at least it should.  I'd just keep repeating it until they shut the hell up.
(2)  "No.  Given my history of allergic reactions, a letter from Post Transplant ('we can neither vouch for the safety nor efficacy of these vaccines in transplant recipients'), and the data showing up on VAERS, I don't think it's in my best interests.  At all."    Leaves conversation open for argumention which I'm not at all interested in, but does give medical reasons for not doing it.  May come in handy later.
(3) "No.   Do you guys get kickbacks for these things? Or is percentage of patients vaccinated reflected in your performance appraisal or something?"   I'd have to find a new doctor in all likelihood.
(4) "No.  I'm concerned about allergic reactions, autoimmune disorders, the complete lack of knowledge of long-term side effects, the past history of SARS-coronavirus vaccines (animal deaths), in particular pathogenic priming and the results when exposed to another strain.  AstraZeneca had their last little sliver of legal liability removed because they said they shouldn't be held responsible for side effects they may discover in FOUR YEARS.

I really am not willing to be lectured like a 6 y/o nor endure eye-rolling, etc.  I'm angry, and there's a good chance my mouth editor would fail if I discussed it...which would be pointless anyway.  They will never convince me it's safe, and I will never convince them that at this point, they're behaving more like a cult than scientists.   Should I just stick with #1 or go with #2 or 4 in case I have to try to get an exemption at some point?


How COVID-19 Vaccine Can Destroy Your Immune System



“COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralizing antibodies may sensitize vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated.”


"by getting the vaccine they may end up with more severe COVID-19 once they’re infected with the virus"


There is no logic to take the vaccine tinywondering....

And there is good other treatments to use in case of getting sick, so no need to take vaccine.

Yeah, I know it.  That's what happened in the animal trials. Problem is the Vaccine Cult and how to deal with them when you still need to get medical care for other issues.

Yeeh, I really fail to understand people who demand getting the Rona vaccine, It look`s more like extermination campaign and not something that help in health .

Sorry previous message partly dark again.....I am wondering has the CIA direct controll of my keyboard tinywhat bigfrightened.....

https://humansarefree.com/2021/02/entire...tions.html

But they keep reassuring us that all the reactions are normal.   And the deaths have nothing to do with the vaccine.

I don't think I'd trust these people to tell me when to cross a street, let alone inject something.
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