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U.S. Navy BS
There is a certain advantage to numbers.. The US Navy has allowed stupidity to infect it's ship building. 13 billion for an aircraft carrier plagued with on going faults..

Too many bells and whistles. But isn't that standard for today...?
Technology is like any other tool in one's box, but it shouldn't be a burden.
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"They watch from behind complacent smiles whilst polishing their cutlery. Yet, with egg between the prongs"
(01-07-2022, 09:38 AM)BIAD Wrote: Too many bells and whistles. But isn't that standard for today...?
Technology is like any other tool in one's box, but it shouldn't be a burden.

Not just the standard for today but in years past as companies promise but seldom deliver. Several million dollar Air to air missiles that had less than a 50% chance of working and actually hitting their target even with a solid lock on; to just name one thing I am familiar with.

Now take a 13 billion dollar aircraft carrier where the ELEVATORS do not work for bringing stuff from below decks !! THEY are ELEVATORS for goodness sake !.  Every time we the tax payers buy something for defense using the government we get screwed.. A small package of  simple washer for a million bucks and there were idiots who tried to justify the cost when any hardware store would give you 20 for less than a dollar.. The old $500 hammer and $8000 toilet seat... All I can say is there really must be a secret program where all the money disappears
I had a friend who was stationed aboard the USS Forrestal as a fireman.

The Forrestal was affectionately known to the sailors on board as "the USS Zippo".

It had a fire problem built in as a design flaw.

Chuck earned his keep as a fireman while stationed there.

“The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.”

-Aldous Huxley

-- Got mask? Just sayin'...

I'm not sure if there is a development/construction environment more unnecessarily complex and convoluted than building a modern US Navy aircraft carrier. Not to mention expensive and lengthy. I struggle to think of another historical example.  

I appreciate all of this is cutting edge and like trying to get an orchestra of systems all on the same sheet of music. By the cheapest committee of orchestra conductors tax dollars can buy.  

I would also like to state my opinion based on experience, the military in general sucks at contracting. They are horrible at it. They never met snake oil they didn't immediately fall in love with. The flashier and more grandiose it looks on an evaluation report, the better.  

Below is a video on an old Russian made IS-7 tank from the late 40's. It was really an amazing piece of engineering. At the time, nothing could touch it. The problem? It was too much. Too heavy. Too expensive. Too over engineered (learned from the Germans maybe?). They didn't go with it. What it took to make 1 IS-7, the same manufacturing base could make 5 or more T-55's.

The Russians had just finished a bloody PhD course in how to win a war. They knew it was large numbers of capable tanks versus a few amazing tanks. There is probably a lesson in here somewhere IMHO.  


Check out the M-103 tank the US had and the British Conqueror tank of the same era.  I think everyone had been traumatized by Tiger tanks or something.


First version of the M60 tanks had a flammable hydraulic fluid used in the turret ring.  Israelis found that out the hard way.  Fluid was later changed to something less Zippo oriented.

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Location: The lost world, Elsewhen

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