Wierdness in MY World

[BIAD]

@"Ninurta"

This might seem a silly question, but did you see any of these things when you entered that area of your home?

[Ninurta]

@"Ninurta"

This might seem a silly question, but did you see any of these things when you entered that area of your home?

No, I don't recall seeing any of them, and I'm sure I would have made note of something so large as that second one flying around on an enclosed porch, and wondered just how it got in, and more importantly, how to get it out. Now, sometimes, bugs do come in while we are going in or out of the door, but we tend to notice them rambling around inside, and either shoo them out or, if they refuse to leave, end their days.

I remember all the spiders I see, and all of the bugs I see inside the house - it's usually bees, although on one occasion it was a fly. I never figured out how the fly got in, but he refused to leave, and so is no more.

It's odd to me that I have only ever seen ONE fly inside this house. I guess all the spiders DO serve a purpose after all!


.

[Minstrel]

Frame rate is 20.27 FPS. 304 frames in a 15 second clip. I'm not sure of the angular measure of the field of view. It was recorded by a CasaCam VS802 setup, to an .asf video file. I am 6'2" tall, if that helps with the size estimates.

Yes, that reminded me of a dragonfly too, but if it had been a dragonfly right in front of my face, I would have likely noticed it.

.

Thank you. That's a pretty good frame rate for stationary cams.

[guohua]

@"Ninurta" 

Are your lakes frozen and if so, are they making strange sounds?
From 2016. Link

Or the most recent I know of. (you have to endure one commercial sorry)
Linky

[Ninurta]

@"Ninurta" 

Are your lakes frozen and if so, are they making strange sounds?
From 2016. Link

Or the most recent I know of. (you have to endure one commercial sorry)
Linky

No. I've only ever seen it get cold enough to freeze ponds over here a handful of times in all the time I've lived here. One winter it got down to 20 below in the daytime, but normally it hovers around freezing, so even a light breeze will move standing water enough to keep it from freezing over. When I was a teenager, an old man told me that the rivers used to freeze over deep enough to drive horses and sleds out onto, and that's how they got their ice for the ice houses, but I've only seen the river freeze completely over twice in my lifetime.

Log ago in Ohio our ponds used to freeze over regularly, and I have heard them make similar noises when the sunlight hit them in the daytime and weakened the ice in spots.

.

[Ninurta]

Well.

I'm not one to be fucked with, not by the living nor the dead, nor by those who have never been either.

Over the last month or month and a half or so. something has been scratching me, and that has kinda pissed me off.

I let iT slide the first couple of times with a warning. That warning was not, apparently, heeded. So this evening I found two more scratches, long bold ones, on the back if my right leg. Enough is enough. if I tell you once, you'd best pay attention. if I tell you twice, you's best start shaking. If I have to tell you a third time, there ain't gonna be no third time. Your ass is done for.

Living, or dead, or in between.

If this bitch wants war, I've been ready for war all my life. And I have backup.

Let's do this.

.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

Well.

I'm not one to be fucked with, not by the living nor the dead, nor by those who have never been either.

Over the last month or month and a half or so. something has been scratching me, and that has kinda pissed me off.

I let iT slide the first couple of times with a warning. That warning was not, apparently, heeded. So this evening I found two more scratches, long bold ones, on the back if my right leg. Enough is enough. if I tell you once, you'd best pay attention. if I tell you twice, you's best start shaking. If I have to tell you a third time, there ain't gonna be no third time. Your ass is done for.

Living, or dead, or in between.

If this bitch wants war, I've been ready for war all my life. And I have backup.

Let's do this.

.

Now that it had gotten your attention, maybe it just wants to talk.

Have any clue to when the scratches happen?

Any pattern regarding places and times?

If it wanted to hurt you, I don't think it would stop at scratches.

But what the hell do I know?

[wtbengineer]

Well.

I'm not one to be fucked with, not by the living nor the dead, nor by those who have never been either.

Over the last month or month and a half or so. something has been scratching me, and that has kinda pissed me off.

I let iT slide the first couple of times with a warning. That warning was not, apparently, heeded. So this evening I found two more scratches, long bold ones, on the back if my right leg. Enough is enough. if I tell you once, you'd best pay attention. if I tell you twice, you's best start shaking. If I have to tell you a third time, there ain't gonna be no third time. Your ass is done for.

Living, or dead, or in between.

If this bitch wants war, I've been ready for war all my life. And I have backup.

Let's do this.

.

Okay, I get that attitude, but I am just wondering how you are going to fight this war if they are in the 3rd category.  I've dealt with the ones that have never been either alive or dead a little and it left me a shambles.  I'm not 6'2" but I work out, like seriously, and I'm a pretty beefy guy for my age, shit for most any age.  I didn't have anything to throw at 'em really.  I'm just wondering what's in your arsenal.

[Ninurta]

Okay, I get that attitude, but I am just wondering how you are going to fight this war if they are in the 3rd category.  I've dealt with the ones that have never been either alive or dead a little and it left me a shambles.  I'm not 6'2" but I work out, like seriously, and I'm a pretty beefy guy for my age, shit for most any age.  I didn't have anything to throw at 'em really.  I'm just wondering what's in your arsenal.

It's been my experience over the years, right or wrong, that the "in betweens" respond pretty similarly to the "deads". That leads me to think that both may be interdimensional, more energy than physical reality. That requires a different approach, and the fact that I AM 6'2", but DON'T work out means nothing in that sort of a battle.

It's more like a battle of wills than it is a battle of fists. Physical size doesn't matter much in that sort of contest. I know a little mountain witch that I've known for over 40 years who is 5 foot nothing, but still a force to be reckoned with on the paranormal level. Matter of fact, she can get pretty rough on the physical, too.

It also helps to understand the metaphysical uses of things like copper, salt, iron, and some herbs that were already known 3 or 4 thousand years ago, but have mostly been forgotten in the modern world among wannabe Wiccans. It's the witches, shamans, medicine men, priests, etc. that deal with spirit, either the in-betweens or the dead. Wannabe Wiccans need not apply, as they are just play-acting with a faked up "religion".

There is a thread here detailing my attempt at growing sacred tobacco (which is a thread I need to update). I was taught 30 years ago the use of it by a Cherokee medicine man, but had never attempted to grow any of it until this year. It's not your regular cigarette, cigar, or pipe tobacco - it's anywhere from 3 to 9 times more potent than commercial tobacco, and up to 20 times more potent in the upper leaves of a mature plant. That, along with white sage, some other herbs, and a seriously bad attitude seems to have done the trick. After smudging the house and hanging "hands" of sacred tobacco leaves in the windows and doors, I've not been scratched by anything other than myself in a couple months now.

Technically, I need to spread the tobacco powder all along baseboards on exterior walls, and maybe at the corners of my perimeter fence, but I don't have enough grown and cured ltheema to get that done yet. Maybe in late fall or early winter.

Believe it or not, most of the "spirits" we have to deal with here in the US are the same ones the Indians had to deal with a few thousand years ago. Spirits are, generally with a few exceptions, tied to the land. That's why things like "Allah" never bother me - I know that Allah originated as a desert djinn in the middle east, and has no power here beyond what it can agitate it's followers into doing. So I don't worry about Allah, just the radical Muslims who follow it's way. Being physical, they are much more of a danger. They are not power-limited to a particular place like the desert djinn are.

So here, old Indian medicine works pretty well.

In the final analysis, I've found that all the accoutrements are mostly just props, and it is your own will, determination, intent, and bad attitude that really keeps the haints in line, and it's just your own personal power working through the props that energizes those props to do the things they are alleged do. The props, along with any rituals you may devise or have been taught, serve only as focal points to focus your own will, as they do in any "religion", from Catholic to Animist. They are generally more useful for folks with little faith or will, as they focus what raw material is there to work with. They also assist folks with a stronger will, if the particular haint they are dealing with is a stronger one.

At least that's my working theory for the time being, and it hasn't failed so far.

Me and that little mountain witch I mentioned, 44 years (and a couple months - 5 January 1978) ago:






She's just a bitty little thing, but hell on wheels when she gets riled and means business. The field jacket ain't mine. it belonged to one of my uncles. Shoulder patch is 4th Transport, out of Ft. Eustis, but based in Saigon when he wore it 10 or 12 years earlier.

ETA:"Mountain witches" are a special breed. They combine things brought from the Old Country - England, Ireland, Germany and Scotland - things which probably date all the way back to Celtic and Germanic "magic" of millennia ago, with local Indian "magic", and possibly some from Africa brought over by slaves and indentured servants from Africa. What they do, and what they use, comes from those sources direct, passed down through generations, along with some things they discovered on their own. That is how they differ from Wiccans, or what I call "wannabe wiccans" or "Barnes and Noble witches". That latter category was entirely made up out of whole cloth by Gerald Gardner in the early 20th century, and bears the same relation to real witches as Tonka toys do to Cat diesels. They have no real, actual, passed-down knowledge. It's all made up in the modern day. The same goes for what passes as "Druids" in modern day England and Wales, and for the sudden pseudo resurgence of alleged "Pagans" for the most part. Most of them are made up, pale imitations of the real thing.

Mountain witches fall into the same sort of category - but in their case it's not that they don't have the power or passed down traditions, it's that they are no longer purely European witches, because of the inclusions from other cultures. What they do works here, but probably would be less effective in India or Australia, for example. Those places have their own local spirits, and only the generic parts that cover any spirit would work there, What Mountain Witches do would be less effective, because those local spirits have their own peculiarities and draw their power from that patch of land.

Every continent, and to a lesser extent every patch of land within it, has it's own composition, it's own unique micro-crystalline mineral structure. That is why modern science can analyze old bones and determine they grew up in a different place from where they died, and it is also why particular spirits are tied down to particular places.

it may well be why the Bluestones at Stonehenge were imported from the Preseli Hills in Wales instead of sourced locally - different micro-crystalline structure, different "magical" properties as relates to spirits.

Maybe some day I'll tell the tale of my physical fight with a demon, or something like one. It damn near whooped my ass, until I accidentally - and I do mean accidentally - called in reinforcements due to a panic. That's not a tale I tell, but maybe some day. It's too unbelievable, to the point that sometimes even I question it, and I was there.


.

[wtbengineer]

Okay, I get that attitude, but I am just wondering how you are going to fight this war if they are in the 3rd category.  I've dealt with the ones that have never been either alive or dead a little and it left me a shambles.  I'm not 6'2" but I work out, like seriously, and I'm a pretty beefy guy for my age, shit for most any age.  I didn't have anything to throw at 'em really.  I'm just wondering what's in your arsenal.

It's been my experience over the years, right or wrong, that the "in betweens" respond pretty similarly to the "deads". That leads me to think that both may be interdimensional, more energy than physical reality. That requires a different approach, and the fact that I AM 6'2", but DON'T work out means nothing in that sort of a battle.

It's more like a battle of wills than it is a battle of fists. Physical size doesn't matter much in that sort of contest. I know a little mountain witch that I've known for over 40 years who is 5 foot nothing, but still a force to be reckoned with on the paranormal level. Matter of fact, she can get pretty rough on the physical, too.

It also helps to understand the metaphysical uses of things like copper, salt, iron, and some herbs that were already known 3 or 4 thousand years ago, but have mostly been forgotten in the modern world among wannabe Wiccans. It's the witches, shamans, medicine men, priests, etc. that deal with spirit, either the in-betweens or the dead. Wannabe Wiccans need not apply, as they are just play-acting with a faked up "religion".

There is a thread here detailing my attempt at growing sacred tobacco (which is a thread I need to update). I was taught 30 years ago the use of it by a Cherokee medicine man, but had never attempted to grow any of it until this year. It's not your regular cigarette, cigar, or pipe tobacco - it's anywhere from 3 to 9 times more potent than commercial tobacco, and up to 20 times more potent in the upper leaves of a mature plant. That, along with white sage, some other herbs, and a seriously bad attitude seems to have done the trick. After smudging the house and hanging "hands" of sacred tobacco leaves in the windows and doors, I've not been scratched by anything other than myself in a couple months now.

Technically, I need to spread the tobacco powder all along baseboards on exterior walls, and maybe at the corners of my perimeter fence, but I don't have enough grown and cured ltheema to get that done yet. Maybe in late fall or early winter.

Believe it or not, most of the "spirits" we have to deal with here in the US are the same ones the Indians had to deal with a few thousand years ago. Spirits are, generally with a few exceptions, tied to the land. That's why things like "Allah" never bother me - I know that Allah originated as a desert djinn in the middle east, and has no power here beyond what it can agitate it's followers into doing. So I don't worry about Allah, just the radical Muslims who follow it's way. Being physical, they are much more of a danger. They are not power-limited to a particular place like the desert djinn are.

So here, old Indian medicine works pretty well.

In the final analysis, I've found that all the accoutrements are mostly just props, and it is your own will, determination, intent, and bad attitude that really keeps the haints in line, and it's just your own personal power working through the props that energizes those props to do the things they are alleged do. The props, along with any rituals you may devise or have been taught, serve only as focal points to focus your own will, as they do in any "religion", from Catholic to Animist. They are generally more useful for folks with little faith or will, as they focus what raw material is there to work with. They also assist folks with a stronger will, if the particular haint they are dealing with is a stronger one.

At least that's my working theory for the time being, and it hasn't failed so far.

Me and that little mountain witch I mentioned, 44 years (and a couple months - 5 January 1978) ago:






She's just a bitty little thing, but hell on wheels when she gets riled and means business. The field jacket ain't mine. it belonged to one of my uncles. Shoulder patch is 4th Transport, out of Ft. Eustis, but based in Saigon when he wore it 10 or 12 years earlier.

ETA:"Mountain witches" are a special breed. They combine things brought from the Old Country - England, Ireland, Germany and Scotland - things which probably date all the way back to Celtic and Germanic "magic" of millennia ago, with local Indian "magic", and possibly some from Africa brought over by slaves and indentured servants from Africa. What they do, and what they use, comes from those sources direct, passed down through generations, along with some things they discovered on their own. That is how they differ from Wiccans, or what I call "wannabe wiccans" or "Barnes and Noble witches". That latter category was entirely made up out of whole cloth by Gerald Gardner in the early 20th century, and bears the same relation to real witches as Tonka toys do to Cat diesels. They have no real, actual, passed-down knowledge. It's all made up in the modern day. The same goes for what passes as "Druids" in modern day England and Wales, and for the sudden pseudo resurgence of alleged "Pagans" for the most part. Most of them are made up, pale imitations of the real thing.

Mountain witches fall into the same sort of category - but in their case it's not that they don't have the power or passed down traditions, it's that they are no longer purely European witches, because of the inclusions from other cultures. What they do works here, but probably would be less effective in India or Australia, for example. Those places have their own local spirits, and only the generic parts that cover any spirit would work there, What Mountain Witches do would be less effective, because those local spirits have their own peculiarities and draw their power from that patch of land.

Every continent, and to a lesser extent every patch of land within it, has it's own composition, it's own unique micro-crystalline mineral structure. That is why modern science can analyze old bones and determine they grew up in a different place from where they died, and it is also why particular spirits are tied down to particular places.

it may well be why the Bluestones at Stonehenge were imported from the Preseli Hills in Wales instead of sourced locally - different micro-crystalline structure, different "magical" properties as relates to spirits.

Maybe some day I'll tell the tale of my physical fight with a demon, or something like one. It damn near whooped my ass, until I accidentally - and I do mean accidentally - called in reinforcements due to a panic. That's not a tale I tell, but maybe some day. It's too unbelievable, to the point that sometimes even I question it, and I was there.


.

Thant's pretty much along the lines of what I expected you to say, thanks for the response.  I know from experience that you are right, physical attributes mean nothing at all in spiritual battles.  We fight not against flesh and blood and all that.

I never tried the angry approach but it seemed like just ignoring the whole thing helped to keep it/them at bay, for the most part anyway.  I also never tried any of the things you mention like salt or copper or herbs, nothing like that.  And I never heard of sacred tobacco.  When I was attacked I was a teenager and didn't know squat.  Just ignored it like I did when I was a little kid and footsteps came across my bedroom floor and someone sat on the edge of my bed.  Grew up in a haunted house, at least I was being haunted, don't know if anyone else was.

I haven't given it much thought, but I agree with you that spirits are associated with particular geographic regions and stay in those regions.  Kind of like rulers over the land in a spiritual sense.  I also believe that they are ranked according to power.  I also know I don't like to spend too much time thinking about these things.  It seems like it gets their attention.  Anyway, lots of information in your post, thanks for taking the time to write it out.  And I really would like to hear your story about your fight with a demon, if you ever feel like telling it.

[Ninurta]

Thant's pretty much along the lines of what I expected you to say, thanks for the response.  I know from experience that you are right, physical attributes mean nothing at all in spiritual battles.  We fight not against flesh and blood and all that.

I never tried the angry approach but it seemed like just ignoring the whole thing helped to keep it/them at bay, for the most part anyway.  I also never tried any of the things you mention like salt or copper or herbs, nothing like that.  And I never heard of sacred tobacco.  When I was attacked I was a teenager and didn't know squat.  Just ignored it like I did when I was a little kid and footsteps came across my bedroom floor and someone sat on the edge of my bed.  Grew up in a haunted house, at least I was being haunted, don't know if anyone else was.

I haven't given it much thought, but I agree with you that spirits are associated with particular geographic regions and stay in those regions.  Kind of like rulers over the land in a spiritual sense.  I also believe that they are ranked according to power.  I also know I don't like to spend too much time thinking about these things.  It seems like it gets their attention.  Anyway, lots of information in your post, thanks for taking the time to write it out.  And I really would like to hear your story about your fight with a demon, if you ever feel like telling it.

Yes, ignoring them can work, if you can do it. Many of them are akin to "psychic vampires", and actually get energized by being noticed, more so if they can generate fear in you to siphon of that emotional energy that generates. Ignoring those types tends to starve them away.

There is a learning curve to using props like copper, iron, salt, and herbs, and some of those only work in certain situations, but not others. Most of the herbs are really just medicinal, and only have spiritual effects secondarily -and remember, it's really probably just your own will and intent being focused on them that makes them work at all.

As far as the sacred tobacco goes, this is one variety I'm growing. I got the seed for that one from Prarie Moon. It's from the Great Lakes region. This is the other variety I'm growing, and that company is in Canada, and is where I got the seed for it from. While it claims to be "1000 year old tobacco", grown from seed found in a thousand year old clay pot at an archaeological dig, I'm pretty sure that is just bullshit marketing. It looks like Cherokee tobacco, and I'm pretty sure that's what it really is. I looked through all manner of archaeological literature, and never found any mention of any sproutable seed being found in a 1000 year old clay pot - and I'm betting that would have been big news. I'm guessing they just bill it as they do to avoid trouble from the Cherokees. There IS a difference between the two, most noticeable at the moment in the leaf shape - the Midewiwin has leaves that are a bit longer and a bit more narrow, and the other has leaves that are shorter and wider, more "squat" looking. It has a gazillion uses in native American culture. Basics are that it's used to give thanks to the good spirits, and attract them to you. Then the good spirits defend you against the bad ones, because you apprecited them. One way or another, it seems to keep the bad spirits at bay.

It's used to give thanks to the spirit of a plant when you take something from it in the woods. You leave a pinch at the base of the plant you are taking something from. Some tribes use it to attract "little people" to dwell around their houses, or just to thank them for not playing tricks on you in the woods. It's offered to water, and it's offered to sky spirits, and Wishemanitou. All I really know is that since I smudged the house to get rid of the bad, and hung the leaves to prevent it's return, I've not been scratched any more. I'm sure that can be built upon as I learn more - that learning curve thing. Right now, I'm in contact with some Anishinaabe to find out how they use it, and how they cure it. That's probably more relevant to the Midewiwin tobacco.

One other thing about the native tobacco  it traditionally cannot be sold or traded. That would be demeaning it, turning it into a crass commercial commodity, like commercial tobacco. It can only be gifted.  For example, you take a batch to the medicine man when you have a request of him. if he accepts it, that means he accepts your plight, and will do what he can to alleviate it.

Here's the story of the fight with the demon, or whatever it was. You can take it as gospel truth, or as a tall tale, or as the ravings of a lunatic. I don't care which, I know what I saw, and no one else has to believe it.

Once upon a time, as all good fairy tales start, I was a young man. maybe even a teenager. I don't know what made me do it, other than being young and dumb, but one fine sunny spring day, I was feeling my oats, and out of a clear blue sky, I said right out loud "I ain't scared of shit. I ain't even scared of the devil himself! Bring on yer worst, you ain't got nothin' on me!"

Right after that, I discovered that I WAS scared of shit.

I was seized by a terrible searing pain in my midsection, and I shit you not, when I looked down my belly had been ripped open. Blood everywhere, and I could see my own guts trying to dump out.

I'm not sure if "scared" even begins to cover what I felt at that instant.

I yelled "God help me, that sumbitch done gutted me". I've always been an irreverent sort, and I reckon the Good Lord takes that into account most days, since that's just the way he made me. Then I collapsed on the ground, passed right out. Dead to the world. I don't remember anything until I woke up. No dreams, no visions, no nothing but blackness. When I woke back up, or came to, or whatever I did, it was some time later. The sun was a good bit lower. All my innards were back where they were supposed to be, no scars, no blood, not even a scratch to show anything had ever happened at all.

That was about as confusing as having seen it in the first place.

I was not drunk, nor stoned, nor anything of the sort... but what I was was tired. Incredibly tired. Wore slam out. It took me forever to get back home, and when I did I slept for 18 hours straight.

I don't really know what happened. I know the pain was real, and the worst I'd ever felt, even to this day, but I often wonder if seeing my own innards trying to become outards might not have just been some kind of illusion flung on me. More so because I could not find any evidence that it ever happened, no scars, no scratches, not even a red mark. It was probably "all in my head", but what the hell PUT it there?

Whether it was a demon, or a devil, or some other kind of pissed off haint, I can't say. What I CAN say is that my ass was whooped, and whooped bad. I can also say that it raised the bar, for me, as to what there is and ain't to fear. It didn't make me fearless by any means, but it did raise the bar a few notches.

So there it is. take it or leave it. If nothing else, it'd make a fairly decent campfire tale, I reckon.

.

[BIAD]

Yes, ignoring them can work, if you can do it. Many of them are akin to "psychic vampires", and actually get energized
by being noticed, more so if they can generate fear in you to siphon of that emotional energy that generates...

When I was younger, I'd have snickered at such a comment, but after the 3 1/2 year episode with some renting noisy neighbours
living next to my house, I have learned that such 'people' are real.

By setting a false narrative that we had no reason to doubt, a single young mother and her boyfriend terrorised our homelife and
made me feel like there was no way out of the nightmare. I -personally, was disarmed and left in a state of constant dread that my
life was now akin to a guinea-pig in a cage.

They would watch us all the the time, deliberately play loud music -whether they were in the house or not and even request their
friends to visit us with accusations that were out of this world. I was accused of being a pervert and child-groomer, a weird old man
who video-recorded the small boy who belonged to the mother but not the boyfriend. The young woman approached me one day
and complained that wife -who has never swore in the forty years I've known her, had said terrible offensive things that nobody had
witnessed.

Everything was based on deceit, but since we'd naturally accepted that most folks are just like us and 'neighbourly', we just couldn't
understand what we'd done wrong for them to be so awful. Though we'd initially been accommodating to them, they had still decided
to set an agenda to have us sell up and move away merely for their enjoyment.
This, they actually told to another neighbour who used to give them money. It was a draining process and I felt helpless.

If I had gone around and beaten up the young man, he would be the victim and I would've only made the situation worse... that was
what I was forced to conclude. All because I'd accepted the original narrative.

But then someone who was dealing with a similar plight gave me some advice and after making one telephone call, the nightmare
that was based on a false presumption that they'd created from Day-One was gone a week-and-a-half later. All they did was suck the
goodness from our lives and left me -personally, constantly on guard that it may visit again.

Vampires -especially the psychic ones, are very real.

[Ninurta]

Doing some research on medicinal uses of native tobacco ("sared tobacco", nicotiana rustica), I just now found the following in a scientific paper documenting tobacco curative use by an Amazonian curandero:

The healer explains that viewed from the Amazonian medical
understanding, tobacco medicine, in addition to the plant’s
biochemical action, exerts its therapeutic effects via the
energetic and spiritual domains. These domains or aspects of
the human body are significant for pathogenesis “because
illnesses first arise in the spirit-body, then in the energy-body,
and only then manifest in the physical body,” he explains.
Aiming to further elucidate the energy aspect of the body, he
describes that like nerves, the body is permeated by energy
channels, which are in direct relationship with the structures of
body and mind. In his point of view, the key power of the tobacco
plant, thus, lies in its extraordinary capacity to tackle the
spiritual-energetic dimension: “There are many excellent
medicines, but for energetic problems, tobacco is number one.”
He describes that it removes energetic pollutants from the
system, thereby increasing the flow of energy in the body,
which in turn improves health of body and mind.
Furthermore, according to Amazonian epistemologies, there
are illnesses that are expressly related to spirits (noncorporeal
living beings, which can be health- or sickness-promoting). The
tobacco is said to be effective for such illnesses because the plant
itself is associated with a powerfully healing spirit, which
antagonizes malevolent entities: “With tobacco [these kinds of
illnesses] get cured in one go, because demons cannot live where
there is tobacco.”

I found the last sentence to be particularly interesting as relates to the scratching and it's cessation after hanging the tobacco leaves. @"Guohua" may  - or may not - recognize similarities between Amazon traditional medicine and Traditional Chinese Medicine in the mention of "energy pathways, like nerves" within the body, which is, I think, one of the basis for acupuncture.

Link to the PDF


.

[Ninurta]

Yes, ignoring them can work, if you can do it. Many of them are akin to "psychic vampires", and actually get energized
by being noticed, more so if they can generate fear in you to siphon of that emotional energy that generates...

When I was younger, I'd have snickered at such a comment, but after the 3 1/2 year episode with some renting noisy neighbours
living next to my house, I have learned that such 'people' are real.

By setting a false narrative that we had no reason to doubt, a single young mother and her boyfriend terrorised our homelife and
made me feel like there was no way out of the nightmare. I -personally, was disarmed and left in a state of constant dread that my
life was now akin to a guinea-pig in a cage.

...

Vampires -especially the psychic ones, are very real.

I recently had a run-in with those sort of folk. My cousin next door got carted off to jail last fall, and was replaced by an irascible individual. Being somewhat irascible myself, there was bound to be friction. However, about two month in to the standoff, a funny thing occurred - the new neighbor all of a sudden dropped the abrasive ways and got pretty dog-gone friendly. Came over for a sharing session in which he stated "We're gonna have to get along". I've no idea of the reason for the sudden change of heart.

Then they disappeared altogether for a couple months.

Then there was an attempt at a return, but that only lasted a week or two I think. About a week ago, my cousin got back out of the crossbar hotel and returned home, and I've not seen the formerly irascible individual since.

I've not looked for any shallow graves in the woods. I'm just not that interested.

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[wtbengineer]

Thant's pretty much along the lines of what I expected you to say, thanks for the response.  I know from experience that you are right, physical attributes mean nothing at all in spiritual battles.  We fight not against flesh and blood and all that.

I never tried the angry approach but it seemed like just ignoring the whole thing helped to keep it/them at bay, for the most part anyway.  I also never tried any of the things you mention like salt or copper or herbs, nothing like that.  And I never heard of sacred tobacco.  When I was attacked I was a teenager and didn't know squat.  Just ignored it like I did when I was a little kid and footsteps came across my bedroom floor and someone sat on the edge of my bed.  Grew up in a haunted house, at least I was being haunted, don't know if anyone else was.

I haven't given it much thought, but I agree with you that spirits are associated with particular geographic regions and stay in those regions.  Kind of like rulers over the land in a spiritual sense.  I also believe that they are ranked according to power.  I also know I don't like to spend too much time thinking about these things.  It seems like it gets their attention.  Anyway, lots of information in your post, thanks for taking the time to write it out.  And I really would like to hear your story about your fight with a demon, if you ever feel like telling it.

Yes, ignoring them can work, if you can do it. Many of them are akin to "psychic vampires", and actually get energized by being noticed, more so if they can generate fear in you to siphon of that emotional energy that generates. Ignoring those types tends to starve them away.

There is a learning curve to using props like copper, iron, salt, and herbs, and some of those only work in certain situations, but not others. Most of the herbs are really just medicinal, and only have spiritual effects secondarily -and remember, it's really probably just your own will and intent being focused on them that makes them work at all.

As far as the sacred tobacco goes, this is one variety I'm growing. I got the seed for that one from Prarie Moon. It's from the Great Lakes region. This is the other variety I'm growing, and that company is in Canada, and is where I got the seed for it from. While it claims to be "1000 year old tobacco", grown from seed found in a thousand year old clay pot at an archaeological dig, I'm pretty sure that is just bullshit marketing. It looks like Cherokee tobacco, and I'm pretty sure that's what it really is. I looked through all manner of archaeological literature, and never found any mention of any sproutable seed being found in a 1000 year old clay pot - and I'm betting that would have been big news. I'm guessing they just bill it as they do to avoid trouble from the Cherokees. There IS a difference between the two, most noticeable at the moment in the leaf shape - the Midewiwin has leaves that are a bit longer and a bit more narrow, and the other has leaves that are shorter and wider, more "squat" looking. It has a gazillion uses in native American culture. Basics are that it's used to give thanks to the good spirits, and attract them to you. Then the good spirits defend you against the bad ones, because you apprecited them. One way or another, it seems to keep the bad spirits at bay.

It's used to give thanks to the spirit of a plant when you take something from it in the woods. You leave a pinch at the base of the plant you are taking something from. Some tribes use it to attract "little people" to dwell around their houses, or just to thank them for not playing tricks on you in the woods. It's offered to water, and it's offered to sky spirits, and Wishemanitou. All I really know is that since I smudged the house to get rid of the bad, and hung the leaves to prevent it's return, I've not been scratched any more. I'm sure that can be built upon as I learn more - that learning curve thing. Right now, I'm in contact with some Anishinaabe to find out how they use it, and how they cure it. That's probably more relevant to the Midewiwin tobacco.

One other thing about the native tobacco  it traditionally cannot be sold or traded. That would be demeaning it, turning it into a crass commercial commodity, like commercial tobacco. It can only be gifted.  For example, you take a batch to the medicine man when you have a request of him. if he accepts it, that means he accepts your plight, and will do what he can to alleviate it.

Here's the story of the fight with the demon, or whatever it was. You can take it as gospel truth, or as a tall tale, or as the ravings of a lunatic. I don't care which, I know what I saw, and no one else has to believe it.

Once upon a time, as all good fairy tales start, I was a young man. maybe even a teenager. I don't know what made me do it, other than being young and dumb, but one fine sunny spring day, I was feeling my oats, and out of a clear blue sky, I said right out loud "I ain't scared of shit. I ain't even scared of the devil himself! Bring on yer worst, you ain't got nothin' on me!"

Right after that, I discovered that I WAS scared of shit.

I was seized by a terrible searing pain in my midsection, and I shit you not, when I looked down my belly had been ripped open. Blood everywhere, and I could see my own guts trying to dump out.

I'm not sure if "scared" even begins to cover what I felt at that instant.

I yelled "God help me, that sumbitch done gutted me". I've always been an irreverent sort, and I reckon the Good Lord takes that into account most days, since that's just the way he made me. Then I collapsed on the ground, passed right out. Dead to the world. I don't remember anything until I woke up. No dreams, no visions, no nothing but blackness. When I woke back up, or came to, or whatever I did, it was some time later. The sun was a good bit lower. All my innards were back where they were supposed to be, no scars, no blood, not even a scratch to show anything had ever happened at all.

That was about as confusing as having seen it in the first place.

I was not drunk, nor stoned, nor anything of the sort... but what I was was tired. Incredibly tired. Wore slam out. It took me forever to get back home, and when I did I slept for 18 hours straight.

I don't really know what happened. I know the pain was real, and the worst I'd ever felt, even to this day, but I often wonder if seeing my own innards trying to become outards might not have just been some kind of illusion flung on me. More so because I could not find any evidence that it ever happened, no scars, no scratches, not even a red mark. It was probably "all in my head", but what the hell PUT it there?

Whether it was a demon, or a devil, or some other kind of pissed off haint, I can't say. What I CAN say is that my ass was whooped, and whooped bad. I can also say that it raised the bar, for me, as to what there is and ain't to fear. It didn't make me fearless by any means, but it did raise the bar a few notches.

So there it is. take it or leave it. If nothing else, it'd make a fairly decent campfire tale, I reckon.

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Yeah, I was able to ignore them, or at least to act like it.  I learned that from an early age ignoring the poltergeist or whatever was terrorizing me as a boy.  It was more like just being petrified by fear.  When I was a kid I'd hide my head under the blankets and pretend I was asleep.  I figured if whatever it was thought i was sleeping it wouldn't get me.  Well, it never did anything beyond scare me so i guess it kind of worked.  And after a time it stopped trying to scare me too, although it ramped up quite a bit at around the age of 18.  It seemed to get pretty intense.  
Thanks for telling me about your fight with the demon.  I believe they can do that kind of thing to you.  Everything we perceive is only happening in our minds after all.  Through our sensory organs that transmit the signals to our brains.  It's easy for these beings to manipulate those signals, or the way that our brains interpret them.

[BIAD]

I recently had a run-in with those sort of folk. My cousin next door got carted off to jail last fall, and was replaced by an irascible individual. Being somewhat irascible myself, there was bound to be friction. However, about two month in to the standoff, a funny thing occurred - the new neighbor all of a sudden dropped the abrasive ways and got pretty dog-gone friendly. Came over for a sharing session in which he stated "We're gonna have to get along". I've no idea of the reason for the sudden change of heart.

Then they disappeared altogether for a couple months.

Then there was an attempt at a return, but that only lasted a week or two I think. About a week ago, my cousin got back out of the crossbar hotel and returned home, and I've not seen the formerly irascible individual since.

I've not looked for any shallow graves in the woods. I'm just not that interested.

I recall you mentioning that encounter.


What I found interesting with my own problem was that when I rang the possible 'remedy' to solve this deliberate
invasive campaign, the chap with a Liverpudlian accent didn't seem interested on any of the facts I offered.

I told him my name and address along with the neighbours house number and before I could go further (I'd done
a lot of research into the male who was living there, by then) -the man on the phone cut me off with the one question
he did seem interested in.

"Does he drive?"

After confirming details about the male's vehicle, he said they would look into it and rang-off. This left me with the
feeling that the guy on the phone was just taking calls and filing them for a bureaucratic system where the 'victim'
was the last person to be concerned with.
I was very wrong.

Walking home from my early-morning shift at a local supermarket, a upper-middle-class young couple that I'd never
seen before were chatting on a corner close to my home and looked for all the world as possible house-seekers.
With no property was for sale in that immediate area, these two giggling people seemed stand out and yet, looked
like a pair of twenty-somethings incapable of appreciating the deceitful machinations that goes on with people who
fail to be respectable adults.

What were they looking for? I kept an eye out for any not-usually parked cars and strangers walking past, but it
seemed the phone-call had been in vain. A week-and-a-half later, the troublesome neighbours were out.


I now appreciate the minefield these systems have to wander through. 'Victims' of bad neighbours can also be
vindictive people who just wish to deliver badness on others. Deceit can come from places one never imagines
and the cure isn't like we assume from watching movies. It certainly isn't a job I could do!