[Norway] Bow & Arrow Killing.

[BIAD]

Oh no... was it The Lutheran Church of Norway? Was it possibly the Catholics? Could it be Christianity?
Even the well established Jewish and Buddhist communities of Norway could be the culprits?
Nope.
(Please Note: The Guardian Link was updated, but the link below is before the update)

Norway bow and arrow attack ‘appears to be act of terror’

Danish suspect is Muslim convert who had been on radar of Norway’s security service



'A bow-and-arrow attack that left five people dead in Norway appears to have been an “act of terror”, the Norwegian security
service has said, as details emerged of the Danish suspect’s background. Police said the suspect was a Muslim convert with
previous criminal convictions who had been flagged as a possible Islamic extremist.

Four women and one man aged between 50 and 70 were killed and two other people including an off-duty police officer were
seriously injured in the attack on Wednesday evening in the centre of Kongsberg, about 41 miles (66km) south-west of Oslo.


The suspect, Espen Andersen Bråthen. Age 37.

“The events in Kongsberg currently appear to be an act of terror, but the investigation … will determine in closer detail what the
acts were motivated by,” Norway’s intelligence service PST said in a statement. The suspect was “known to PST from before”,
the statement added, but the agency was not able to provide further details about him.

The Norwegian police chief Ole Bredrup Sæverud said the suspect was a convert to Islam and that there were “previously fears
linked to his radicalisation”, but establishing motive would be “complicated … and will take time”. Sæverud said the 37-year-old
suspect had confessed to the attack, the deadliest in Norway in a decade, during overnight questioning.
“We are investigating among other things to determine whether this was a terrorist attack,” he said.

Several of the victims were fired on in a Coop supermarket, and police said the attacker used other weapons as well as a bow
and arrows. Both of the wounded survivors were in intensive care and there was no immediate further word on their condition.
The suspect is being held on preliminary charges, one step short of being formally charged, and is believed to have acted alone.
Police had previously followed up on reports of his possible radicalisation but had no reports this year, Sæverud said.

Norway’s public broadcaster, NRK, reported that the suspect had several previous convictions for robbery and drugs offences
and was sentenced last year to a six-month restraining order banning him from approaching two close family members after he
threatened to kill one of them.

Jonas Gahr Støre, who took office as Norway’s new prime minister on Thursday, called the attack “horrific”. Responding to the
PST’s statement, he added: “If that is the conclusion, it underlines how serious the challenge and the threat is, and how important
it is that society is prepared to be able to handle this.”

Sæverud said the victims were killed after an initial contact between police and the shooter shortly after 6.15pm on Wednesday.
“The officers were shot at with arrows and lost contact with the perpetrator, who escaped,” he told NRK.

“After that, there were several reports at various addresses that were followed up, and police launched a major search operation
across a large area. We subsequently came across several injured people, and the man was arrested at 6.47pm,” he said.
Local media reported that the suspect was eventually detained on the town’s Gamlabrua Bridge, and quoted witnesses as saying
that the main square near the Coop was sealed off and a house in the neighbourhood searched for more than two hours.
One witness said they saw a woman being stabbed.

The United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, said on Twitter he was “shocked and saddened by the tragic news coming
from Norway”. It was the country’s deadliest attack since the far-right extremist Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 people in 2011.

Since then, Norway has had one other far-right attack, carried out by Philip Manshaus, a self-proclaimed neo-Nazi, who opened fire
into a mosque outside Oslo in 2019 before being overpowered by worshippers. No one was seriously injured.

Police said earlier on Thursday that the suspect was a Danish citizen who lived in Kongsberg. He was in a police cell in the nearby
town of Drammen and was due to go before a judge on Thursday or Friday for a custody hearing, his lawyer said.
“He is cooperating and is giving detailed statements regarding this event,” the lawyer, Fredrik Neumann, told NRK, adding that his
client was “deeply affected”.
He declined to comment further beyond saying the suspect’s mother was Danish, but it was not known whether he had ever lived there.

A woman who witnessed some of the attack, Hansine, told Norway’s TV2 that she had heard a disturbance, then saw a woman taking
cover and “a man standing on the corner with arrows in a quiver on his shoulder and a bow in his hand”. “Afterwards, I saw people running
for their lives. One of them was a woman holding a child by the hand,” she said.

Pictures in Norwegian media show a black arrow sticking out of a wall and what appeared to be competition-grade arrows lying on the
ground. Another witness, Thomas Nilsen, told NRK he “thought it was war, it was so intense”. After what he at first thought was a “loud
quarrel”, he said he heard “a scream I have never heard before.
It was a scream that burned into the soul. I will never forget that. I perceived it as a death cry,” he said...'

Archived Guardian Article:

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

Now people will be giving Norwegians the side eye because of this dude. Such a shame because I've never met a Norwegian that wasn't fun as heck (and usually getting me drunk)!
 

[F2d5thCav]

Terror will find a way.

Killed by arrows, nasty.  Medieval.

Cheers

[DuckforcoveR]

Terror will find a way.

Killed by arrows, nasty.  Medieval.

Cheers

Actually kinda like it   I've been saying for years that if world problems (and the wars they cause) could go back to hand to hand combat we may be in a better (or at least more clear) spot. Not advocating for war or violence, but modern warfare has shifted to a deadly version of twitter: keyboard warriors spout shit each day behind the cloak of anominity. Same with many aspects of modern warfare. Folks in offices in Nebraska controlling drones 12,000 miles away.

[F2d5thCav]

@"DuckforcoveR" 

Yeeaahh ... but there is a big ethical difference between armed combat between soldiers and hammering a crowd of civilians.

No doubt Norway is a country that has fairly strict laws regarding gun control.  Yet, things like this happen, as well as the gun-related massacre by that dude who is a far right weirdo.

I think the fixation on weapons is misplaced.  The question, for me, is how does society identify and control psychopaths without crushing all individual freedoms.

Cheers

[727Sky]

Killing something with an arrow is not like the movies where they shoot and the person/prey are laying there dead seconds later. Unless a brain or heart shot, it takes a while for the prey to bleed out. There are stories of battles where the hero was shot several times looking like a pin cushion as they fought on..Painful to say the least IMO.

[Ninurta]

@"DuckforcoveR" 

Yeeaahh ... but there is a big ethical difference between armed combat between soldiers and hammering a crowd of civilians.

No doubt Norway is a country that has fairly strict laws regarding gun control.  Yet, things like this happen, as well as the gun-related massacre by that dude who is a far right weirdo.

I think the fixation on weapons is misplaced.  The question, for me, is how does society identify and control psychopaths without crushing all individual freedoms.

Cheers

I've been saying similar things for some time now. They are attempting to address the tools, rather than the causes. As soon as someone complains of "gun violence", they are off on the wrong track - "violence" is the problem, not the tools used to promote it. If every weapon on the planet were to vanish this instant, we would still have the problem of violence to contend with, and new weapons would just be created from common household items to make violence happen.

In no instance does a concentration on "gun violence", "knife violence", "archery violence", "claw hammer violence" or "ink pen violence" (yeah, that's a real thing - I had to dislocate a guy's shoulder once for trying to stab me with an ink pen) address the actual proper target. Violence, and violent people, are the problems, not the inanimate tools they use to wreak violence. As long as they insist on targeting the tools, they will never, ever address the problem. Splitting violence into categories based on tools immediately minimizes the root problem of violence by taking focus away from that and placing it on an inanimate object instead.

Violent people are the problem, and they will always find a tool to make violence happen until that root problem is addressed.

Note: observe that in the ink pen incident, I dislocated the attacker's  shoulder, not the ink pen's  shoulder - I correctly identified the attacker as the problem, not the ink pen. With the attacker's shoulder out of commission, the ink pen was useless, just another ink pen.

.

[Ninurta]

Killing something with an arrow is not like the movies where they shoot and the person/prey are laying there dead seconds later. Unless a brain or heart shot, it takes a while for the prey to bleed out. There are stories of battles where the hero was shot several times looking like a pin cushion as they fought on..Painful to say the least IMO.

It's more in-depth even than that - if those images are the arrows he used, and not just stock images of generic arrows, they had "field points", tiny little target points, and were not broadheads to maximize the wound channel. They were basically just high speed pointy sticks, and would take a long time to bleed a person out.

I like how the article tries to point out that they were "competition arrows", as if that makes any difference at all. Pointy sticks are pointy sticks - presence of a graphite shaft or plastic fletching does not make them any more deadly. The deadly part of an arrow is the arrowhead - everything else is just a delivery system.

.

[BIAD]

It's more in-depth even than that - if those images are the arrows he used, and not just stock images of generic arrows, they had "field points", tiny little target points, and were not broadheads to maximize the wound channel. They were basically just high speed pointy sticks, and would take a long time to bleed a person out.

I like how the article tries to point out that they were "competition arrows", as if that makes any difference at all. Pointy sticks are pointy sticks - presence of a graphite shaft or plastic fletching does not make them any more deadly. The deadly part of an arrow is the arrowhead - everything else is just a delivery system...

I've looked around for any other 'arrow'-images from the incident and apart from the one seen above,
the other official imaged of the arrow-use is the first one close to a letter-box in the image below.

[Ninurta]

I've looked around for any other 'arrow'-images from the incident and apart from the one seen above,
the other official imaged of the arrow-use is the first one close to a letter-box in the image below.

I see 3 arrows, and only ONE of them has any fletchings. None of them appear to have a broadhead. The one at the letter box is very interesting - the attacker must have been an Olympic level archer, OR very lucky, OR it's a staged image - he apparently managed to hit a crack in the clapboards so that the arrow could stick in, and he did that with NO fletchings on the arrow to guide it aright into the crack in the clapboards.

ETA: It's possible that the second arrow in the two arrow image does have fletches, but that they are obscured by the leaves in the grass. The point, on the right end of the arrow laying on the macadam surface, is clearly a field point, not a broadhead. Same for the arrow at the letter box - there is no indication of blade entry into the wood, so no broadhead there, either.

.

[BIAD]

I see 3 arrows, and only ONE of them has any fletchings. None of them appear to have a broadhead.
The one at the letter box is very interesting - the attacker must have been an Olympic level archer, OR very lucky, OR it's a staged image
- he apparently managed to hit a crack in the clapboards so that the arrow could stick in, and he did that with NO fletchings on the arrow
to guide it aright into the crack in the clapboards.

ETA: It's possible that the second arrow in the two arrow image does have fletches, but that they are obscured by the leaves in the grass.
The point, on the right end of the arrow laying on the macadam surface, is clearly a field point, not a broadhead. Same for the arrow at the
letter box - there is no indication of blade entry into the wood, so no broadhead there, either.

From various media sites that reported the incident, the 'post-box' image seems to be official and I -a rookie regarding archery,
also found it odd that no 'fletchings' were on the end of the arrow. It's normal for a reader/viewer to accept the visuals displayed
as belonging to the article, but whether those two arrows laid on the grass and path are part of the tragedy, I cannot say.

But what you describe about hitting the crack and the lack of feathered-fins, is strange. I can't find any information on Brathen
in regards of archery lessons or as a hobby. But I found this odd stated in a BBC article:

'...Police prosecutor Ann Irén Svane Mathiassen told NRK that from what they could tell all those
 attacked were "completely random victims". She said the police believed the man went into
people's homes to kill them during the attack...'

There was a knife mentioned too.

[Kenzo]

Look`s like several live`s were lost after police had first contact with the nutcase, i did not not read so carefully about this thought, so not sure how many, so i think several live´s were propably lost because police had no decent weapon ?


I dont see the person being a muslim . I hope people would look further than sterotypes . If i would now as Christian crap the axe and go kill random 10 person with it, i would certainly not be Christian , in any way. If person , labeled as muslim goes doing horrible things , i dont see it as true muslim, but rather brainwashed nutcase who has serious problems . Those Talibans in Afganistan, or hardcore islam fighters in Syria are nutcases if they act wrongly .

Look around, we are being killed in around the World now with lethal injections, in many " Christian countrys"  ...even many Churches have instruct their own people to go get the kill shot....so the World has gone crazy everywhere and just about every religious circle too....

Decent righteous Christian, Muslim dont go act like nutcase IMO

[Nomnomine]

I always assumed it was basic knowledge to round a corner when someone walks through with a bow and arrows. Maybe I'm old fashioned. It's a pretty high kill count for arrows. Too bad nobody had a gun.

[ABNARTY]

I've looked around for any other 'arrow'-images from the incident and apart from the one seen above,
the other official imaged of the arrow-use is the first one close to a letter-box in the image below.

I see 3 arrows, and only ONE of them has any fletchings. None of them appear to have a broadhead. The one at the letter box is very interesting - the attacker must have been an Olympic level archer, OR very lucky, OR it's a staged image - he apparently managed to hit a crack in the clapboards so that the arrow could stick in, and he did that with NO fletchings on the arrow to guide it aright into the crack in the clapboards.

ETA: It's possible that the second arrow in the two arrow image does have fletches, but that they are obscured by the leaves in the grass. The point, on the right end of the arrow laying on the macadam surface, is clearly a field point, not a broadhead. Same for the arrow at the letter box - there is no indication of blade entry into the wood, so no broadhead there, either.

.

The broad head thing got me too. Where are they? Missing vanes too? IDK.

Granted, you hit someone in a vital area even with a field tip, they are going down. It would just be way quicker and bloodier with a broadhead. Kind of what they are designed to do. For the two who lived, I'm glad he went how he did.