(10-24-2022, 03:09 AM)Ninurta Wrote: I don't know what to say. I can empathize, but not really put myself in your shoes.

If the end is coming, the best you can do is be there for him until the end arrives. It comes one day for all of us. Grace has always insisted on a DNR, and to be truthful, as heartless as it sounds, I'd rather she go first. That way, she will never be alone, right up to it. I will then be alone, but better me than her, I think. It pains me to think of her having to navigate this shitshow all alone.

It sounds like you have a handle on all the details, so now all you have to do is surround him with love until God takes that job over for you. He will then have something a lot of people never have, and he will have it all the way to the Other Side. Can one person really give another a greater gift?

My heart breaks for you.

.

This was beautiful. Sad. But beautiful.

ChiefD

During these rough times, try to remember the basic stuff. You know, eating and sleeping, maybe a bit of exercise too. I sometimes forget these things when i am extremely stressed.

Prayers for your strength and fortitude to get through this Chief D.

It does sound like you have excellent doctors and nurses, and yea his quality of life and comfort is tantamount here. But you have to know nobody can decide what is best for your situation better than you, go with that and don't 2nd guess yourself. This is heartbreaking to read...

(10-24-2022, 06:55 AM)putnam6 Wrote: This is heartbreaking to read...

I agree :(

(10-23-2022, 09:35 PM)ChiefD Wrote: Thank you so much for your kind replies and prayers. I greatly appreciate it. 

Regarding an update, I have some bad news. Ron's heart and lungs are failing. He is struggling to breathe even with the bipap going full throttle. It's obvious to the doctors, nurses, and me that he is suffering. The main doctor told me that without the bipap helping him to breathe, he will die. He told me as gently as he could that the he cannot stay on a bipap indefinitely. The nursing home wouldn't take him back like that anyway. They could do a tracheotomy, but that would be quite invasive, and the doctor told me he wouldn't likely survive the surgery. And his quality of life and comfort would be gone. As it is, seeing him struggle to breathe is one of the most gut wrenching things I've ever seen in my life. The doctor stated his chances of recovery are very low. Even if he did fully recover, his heart is starting to fail too. There is a good chance that he will go into cardiac arrest again. I changed things to DNR and they put a bracelet on him. Trying to do CPR on him again would do him more harm than good. 

He was awake and conscious, and I could tell he was agitated. I told him how much I love him, and that I would do everything I can to make sure he's comfortable. The doctor told me that there is an option to take him off the bipap, give him some meds to relax him, and then I can say my final goodbyes and he would just go to sleep permanently. I feel this is a humane thing to do, as much as I know in my heart after talking to a couple of doctors and a chaplain that he is declining. I'm going to take a couple of days at the most so I can get things in order. I've already talked to someone at the funeral home where I did pre planning on his funeral. He will be cremated and have full military honors. He will be buried at the veterans cemetery in King, WI. I actually got the approval letter from the military cemetery today. 

They did a CT scan on him earlier this afternoon, after I had left and gone back home. I'm waiting to hear from the doctor on that. They think he has a large blood clot on his lung, a PE. The pulmonary doctor echoed what the main doctor said, that if this is the case, the options could be risky and make the blood clot burst, which would kill him. So I'm waiting on those results and praying for a miracle, but I don't think there will be a miracle. I called and talked to Ron's daughter and son-in-law who live in Kansas. They are going to make a 10 hour drive to the hospital to see him. They will be here Monday night. I hope Ron can hold on until Tuesday. Once Tuesday comes, I will be making the decision and get things set up. I just don't want to prolong his suffering. I can't do that to him. This is horrific for me, and I'm a complete mess right now. But I am determined to take action by Monday or Tuesday. 

I know he's going to Heaven. He will be reunited with his Mom, Dad, and brother, and friends he made while in the Navy. I will think about that when I feel like I want to lay down and die. I won't lay down and die. I will keep on and honor his final wishes. It's the least I can do.

Oh no, I am so, so sorry .... I am crying as I write this, for I feel your pain

Nothing is worse than seeing our loved one dying, suffering and not a damn thing that we can do.



Just keep telling him how much you love him.
Talk to him, sing to him -- whatever

Let him know how wonderful he is and that it is okay for him to go on, that you forgive him for everything and that you will love him always


Tell him you will meet him again, in the next life ... or in heaven  (not sure of your beliefs, no offense intended)



The emotional roller coaster ride will take a toll on you, so be sure and get as much rest that you can and try to eat, if possible .



Sending positive vibes your way 
Will be keeping you in my thoughts



Stay Strong ~

Susan

Look at the kindness. And empathy. From everyone.

Rogue nation is a team!

My deepest most sincere and heart felt thoughts go out to both of you during this time my dear.

Big hugs to you both.

Kindest respects 

Rodinus

Things are looking up a little today. The CT scan they did indicated no blood clot in his lung. Earlier this morning, they had him off the bipap over four hours, and his oxygen levels stayed above 90 percent. He's back on it now, and oxygen levels are around 96 percent. He is breathing comfortably. The goal is to gradually wean him off the bipap. They have him on some powerful antibiotics and diuretics.  They are working. He has less fluid. I along with the doctor, are cautiously optimistic.  Things definately changed for the better the last 24 hours. Not getting my hopes up too much. Thank you all so much for the kind words and prayers.

(10-24-2022, 07:51 PM)ChiefD Wrote: Things are looking up a little today. The CT scan they did indicated no blood clot in his lung. Earlier this morning, they had him off the bipap over four hours, and his oxygen levels stayed above 90 percent. He's back on it now, and oxygen levels are around 96 percent. He is breathing comfortably. The goal is to gradually wean him off the bipap. They have him on some powerful antibiotics and diuretics.  They are working. He has less fluid. I along with the doctor, are cautiously optimistic.  Things definately changed for the better the last 24 hours. Not getting my hopes up too much. Thank you all so much for the kind words and prayers.

Good news. I will continue to pray for him, and I will add him to our group prayer list tomorrow at our weekly Bible study.

(10-24-2022, 07:51 PM)ChiefD Wrote: Things are looking up a little today. The CT scan they did indicated no blood clot in his lung. Earlier this morning, they had him off the bipap over four hours, and his oxygen levels stayed above 90 percent. He's back on it now, and oxygen levels are around 96 percent. He is breathing comfortably. The goal is to gradually wean him off the bipap. They have him on some powerful antibiotics and diuretics.  They are working. He has less fluid. I along with the doctor, are cautiously optimistic.  Things definately changed for the better the last 24 hours. Not getting my hopes up too much. Thank you all so much for the kind words and prayers.

This is good.

Wishing strength to you both.

I cannot even imagine what you are going through. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Any news ChiefD?

Are you able to cope somehow?

Sorry I haven’t been on here in a few days. Been pretty busy. Ron’s daughter and son in law drove from Kansas to see Ron in the hospital. They had a hellacious drive, wound up taking two days instead of one. They wound up spinning out on the highway as a cold front was following them the whole drive. Then they had to get two new tires on their car. Yesterday they spent several hours with us in the hospital. Ron was so happy to see his daughter, Renae, and there were a lot of happy tears. She held his hand and he was grinning ear to ear, so he knew she was there. He hadn’t seen her in 20+ years. 

Then Renae, Nathan and I all went out to dinner and came back for some more time with Ron. It was really awesome, and I was full of joy to see Ron smiling like that. This morning, Renae and Nathan came back to spend a little more time with Ron. Then they headed home. I hope their drive back is better than their drive here. Ron did very well today. He was more alert and did a little more talking. He had been off his bipap and breathing comfortably with oxygen levels above 95% almost four hours when I finally went home for the day after spending almost six hours in the hospital.

I’m tired and plan on sleeping in a little tomorrow. I just need to rest and rejuvenate. Ron improves a little each day. I don’t know what God’s plan is, but I hope Ron recovers. 

Oh, I forgot to mention. Monday night when I got home, I had a panic attack and sobbed so hard I thought I was going to throw up. I called the mental health crisis line, 988. They put me through to the veterans crisis line, and I talked almost an hour to a very nice man. I poured my heart out, talked about all the guilt, stress, sorrow and fear I’ve been feeling and the toll it’s taking on my mental health. I’m so glad I called that. I felt better afterwards.

(10-27-2022, 03:35 AM)ChiefD Wrote: I felt better afterwards.

All that matters.  Try not to slump back into the abyss.

(10-27-2022, 03:35 AM)ChiefD Wrote: Oh, I forgot to mention. Monday night when I got home, I had a panic attack and sobbed so hard I thought I was going to throw up. I called the mental health crisis line, 988. They put me through to the veterans crisis line, and I talked almost an hour to a very nice man. I poured my heart out, talked about all the guilt, stress, sorrow and fear I’ve been feeling and the toll it’s taking on my mental health. I’m so glad I called that. I felt better afterwards.

I made a mistake. I am sorry. My Bible study group prayed for Ron by name and intention. We prayed for your family. I will send a request to pray for you by name and intention. 

Stay strong in your faith and know that our will is not always what is best.

Our thoughts are with you and yours @ChiefD from my family to yours.

Thanks everyone for the love, prayers, and support.

This morning, I got a call from the doctor. He asked me if I wanted to talk to someone from palliative care. I said, yes, I’d be open to talking to someone from palliative care. Palliative care isn’t necessarily hospice, but rather is something where they can set up services for my husband to recover. What it really does is give more resources to take the extra time it will take to help my husband. After 15 or more days in the hospital, the nursing home won’t hold a bed for him anymore. I believe he will need more time to recover. Palliative care will be able to do what a hospital does, but with more one on one customized care plan to meet his needs. It may turn to hospice down the road. Will just have to wait and see.

I’ve only told my family this so far. I have not put it on my Facebook. I consider all of you my family too. 

I feel this is the best option for my husband. I feel optimistic that he will eventually recover.

(10-31-2022, 01:16 AM)ChiefD Wrote: I feel this is the best option for my husband.

Probably is.

(10-31-2022, 01:16 AM)ChiefD Wrote: I feel optimistic that he will eventually recover.

If you say that, I'll believe you. If your husband thinks so too ... well ... there's your tell.

(10-31-2022, 01:16 AM)ChiefD Wrote: Thanks everyone for the love, prayers, and support.



This morning, I got a call from the doctor. He asked me if I wanted to talk to someone from palliative care. I said, yes, I’d be open to talking to someone from palliative care. Palliative care isn’t necessarily hospice, but rather is something where they can set up services for my husband to recover. What it really does is give more resources to take the extra time it will take to help my husband. After 15 or more days in the hospital, the nursing home won’t hold a bed for him anymore. I believe he will need more time to recover. Palliative care will be able to do what a hospital does, but with more one on one customized care plan to meet his needs. It may turn to hospice down the road. Will just have to wait and see.



I’ve only told my family this so far. I have not put it on my Facebook. I consider all of you my family too. 



I feel this is the best option for my husband. I feel optimistic that he will eventually recover.

How long will his insurance cover palliative care?

They will not hold his bed, but will they provide him another room on discharge if one is available? 24 hour home care is really expensive, even if you go with just a 24 hour live in caregiver. Just looking at the math, if you can get someone for the bare minimum  of about $7.00 an hour. A month is around 720 to 744 hours a month. That is about $5,040.00 to $5,208.00 a month. You would usually have to provide room and board. That is if you can get someone that will not expect compensation for evening, night, and weekend coverage. Which really adds up.

24 hour care does not mean that you yourself will not be stretched to the max. The amount of time and care you will be providing yourself will make you wonder if the caregiver is worth it. A few weeks without one, will answer that question quickly.

I know what you are going through. As a case manager, I came home every night feeling like a failure. It was a constant battle with care facilities, doctors, and insurance companies. And you would not be wrong to think that is all about the money, because it is. My heart ached for my patients and their families. And my average case load has been as high as 25 to 30 clients.

Long term care is a serious problem in out society and has been so for a many years.

I am keeping you on our prayer list. We are praying for you, by name.

(10-31-2022, 01:54 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote:

(10-31-2022, 01:16 AM)ChiefD Wrote: Thanks everyone for the love, prayers, and support.



This morning, I got a call from the doctor. He asked me if I wanted to talk to someone from palliative care. I said, yes, I’d be open to talking to someone from palliative care. Palliative care isn’t necessarily hospice, but rather is something where they can set up services for my husband to recover. What it really does is give more resources to take the extra time it will take to help my husband. After 15 or more days in the hospital, the nursing home won’t hold a bed for him anymore. I believe he will need more time to recover. Palliative care will be able to do what a hospital does, but with more one on one customized care plan to meet his needs. It may turn to hospice down the road. Will just have to wait and see.



I’ve only told my family this so far. I have not put it on my Facebook. I consider all of you my family too. 



I feel this is the best option for my husband. I feel optimistic that he will eventually recover.

How long will his insurance cover palliative care?

They will not hold his bed, but will they provide him another room on discharge if one is available? 24 hour home care is really expensive, even if you go with just a 24 hour live in caregiver. Just looking at the math, if you can get someone for the bare minimum  of about $7.00 an hour. A month is around 720 to 744 hours a month. That is about $5,040.00 to $5,208.00 a month. You would usually have to provide room and board. That is if you can get someone that will not expect compensation for evening, night, and weekend coverage. Which really adds up.

24 hour care does not mean that you yourself will not be stretched to the max. The amount of time and care you will be providing yourself will make you wonder if the caregiver is worth it. A few weeks without one, will answer that question quickly.

I know what you are going through. As a case manager, I came home every night feeling like a failure. It was a constant battle with care facilities, doctors, and insurance companies. And you would not be wrong to think that is all about the money, because it is. My heart ached for my patients and their families. And my average case load has been as high as 25 to 30 clients.

Long term care is a serious problem in out society and has been so for a many years.

I am keeping you on our prayer list. We are praying for you, by name.

Medicare and Medicaid will cover palliative care. No, I don’t know how long, but I feel they will for long enough. Yes, there is a possibility that the nursing home will provide him with another room after discharge. My husband would not be able to come home. He is hooked up to a bipap machine, has a pic line, and an NG tube. There’s no way I’d do this at home. He would be in a facility. The hospital he is at has palliative care available. I read an article that states that Medicare/Medicaid is required to pay the costs for both palliative care and hospice. 

Thank you so much for your prayers. They are very much appreciated!