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Norway: Make 'hateful' comments about transgender people, even in private, and spend
#1
Why read 1984, Brave new world, Animal farm, when we can live it. No more studying these book, we just have to wake each morning and live them. Now room 101 is your kitchen, your bed room, your living room.

Quote:Norway has outlawed hate speech against transgender and bisexual people, even if the comments were made in private, but what exactly constitutes hate speech?

November 18, 2020
editor:REMIX NEWS
author:JOHN CODY
On Tuesday, Norway's parliament outlawed hate speech against transgender and bisexual people, extending its penal code that has protected gay and lesbian people since 1981.
Now, even people speaking in private could be punished for the offensive use of the terms "gender", "gender identity" or "gender expression" with up to a year in prison, including for offensive comments directed at transgender people. The new law also tightens up criminal penalties by allowing up to three years in prison for public comments that are allegedly discriminatory against trans people.
With the new legislation, the Norwegian Parliament has expanded and substantially tightened the anti-discrimination law of 1981. In the law, deputies replaced the term "homosexual orientation" with "sexual orientation”.
The law also tightens penalties for violent cases motivated by the victim's sexual orientation.
Norwegian Justice Minister Monica Maeland supports the law. "As a group, they are more exposed to discrimination, harassment, and violence," she said. The law is also being applauded by the Norwegian Association of Transgender People (ILGA), which states that "homophobic crimes" have become increasingly common in recent years.
The bill was approved on its second reading without a vote, a parliamentary spokeswoman said after it was backed by lawmakers on its first reading last week.
"I'm very relieved because the lack of legal protection has been an eyesore for trans people for many, many years," said Birna Rorslett, vice president of the Association of Transgender People in Norway.
The law is causing a stir on social networks, especially regarding criminal penalties for statements individuals make in private, with freedom of speech advocates warning it amounts to a severe restriction on what an individual can say, including in the privacy of their own home.  Lawyer Anine Kierulf from the University of Oslo claims a court must prove a direct attack or comments against the transgender, saying, "There are a lot of hateful things you can still say about these groups." 
However, there is no clear line what can be said and not said about transgender people and in what kind of circumstances it may lead to criminal prosecution. The European Union's police force, Europol, for example, has conducted house raids in multiple countries, seized property, and investigated 96 suspects for social media comments that included insulting a female politician and anti-Semitic comments. 
The Norwegian law comes at a time when European Commissioner for Equality Helena Dalli is proposing financial sanctions for countries that do not respect the rights of the LGBTQI community, with countries like Hungary and Poland seen as potential targets. Hungary, for example, has recognised gender as biological. The Commissioner wants to link respect for these rights to European subsidies, which the EU is threatening to do at the moment. Hungary and Poland have vetoed the EU budget in response, setting up a showdown that remains unresolved.
"We have entered a new era in the fight for equality. This strategy is part of that era," Dalli told Politico. Malta, where the Commissioner comes from, is, along with Denmark, at the top of the charts in terms of countries that support LGBT+ people. However, Poland and Hungary have strongly criticized its plans and threaten to bring the dispute before the European Court of Justice.
Norway is one of the most liberal countries in Europe for LGBT+ people, allowing trans people to legally change gender without a medical diagnosis in 2016
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WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, THE EU IS FATHER AND MOTHER / FEAR NOT DEATH, BUT FEAR THE WAY YOU WILL DIE
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#2
It speaks of the privacy of your own home, then goes on to talk about homes being raided due to postings on the internet.

Well this is something to think about, and it appears this has a lot of sharp corners. 

Before they go anywhere with this, they are going to have to deal with the definition of "private ". Is it private if it is shared with the whole planet? Is it private if it is openly shared with the whole room? Is it private if it is shared with three people? Two people? One person?

I think the issue is being obfuscated because in the light of day, it is clear that they want to do the impossible, and they are going about it in a bassackward manner. 

Everyone wants to be loved and accepted. So the first thing everyone is going to have to accept, is that it is never going to happen. 

So screaming, yelling, and stamping your feet is not going to make anyone love or respect you. The truth of the matter is, the only way this going to be resolved is that the group that feels they are being mistreated, fight for those "actions" that allows them to be treated equally. 

You cannot legislate feelings. You can be angry that people don't like the color of your skin or your sexual preferences, but if that feeling becomes a crime, then all will have to be punished, because there will always be something that we like, do, or say, that someone will find offensive. 

It is not about hate speech, it is about hate. Something that you can't legislate. The only thing you will accomplish with attempting to legislate hate, is to guarantee that you will make it grow stronger, deeper, and will make it spread like a wild fire.
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#3
I have chosen to self-identify as a bear. My pronoun is "it". Do not test me on this, or I will push to make ALL speech illegal, and leave you with nothing but meaningful glances... and if those become "hate glances", I will push to make glancing illegal as well!

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I don't care what anyone THINKS they are, I am not bound to deny the evidence of my own lyin' eyes. What makes anyone else's right to self-identify as an attack helicopter any more important than my right to see the world around me as it really exists?

As @NightskyeB4Dawn pointed out, you cannot legislate dislike, Neither can you legislate love. Those are Social issues, interpersonal issues, not political issues. This drive to try making social issues fall under legal restrictions is becoming very disturbing.

Every person should have equal rights under the law. That is a given, but it does not naturally follow that the law must force individuals to conform to Societal expectations. That is Society's job, not to be usurped by legislators. Equal rights under the law is why I pushed for gay marriage. gays are people, too, and should have the same rights as everyone else. Under the law - meaning that if a law applies to one person, it applies to all persons, not that the law should extend itself into social issues. So gays SHOULD have the right to marry, but should NOT have the right to force anyone they choose to perform the ceremony. I can't do that, and neither should gays be able to. For example, a Catholic priest will refuse to perform a marriage for me. It would violate his conscience and vows, because I have been married before. If I don't have that right to force him to do the ceremony, neither should gay folks.

There are all sorts of people in the world. There is no particular reason why the supposed "rights" of one individual should run roughshod over the "rights" of another individual. Rights are really just built into the contract between us and the government, not between us and each other. Society determines interpersonal interactions, not government.

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“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.” ― Ernest Hemingway

"It's the hillbilly way. We kill people and burn their shit down." -- Jim Powell, in "Blood and Banjos" by Franklin Horton




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#4
(11-21-2020, 06:37 PM)Ninurta Wrote: There are all sorts of people in the world. Thee is no particular reason why the supposed "rights" of one individual should run roughshod over the "rights" of another individual. Rights are really just built into the contract between us and the government, not between us and each other. Society determines interpersonal interactions, not government.

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From the time I was a little girl, and that was more than six decades ago, my Mother taught us children that life is never fair. That for every one person that wins there are even more that lose, but losing doesn't stop you from playing the game. She said if you lose often enough you have a better chance at winning, as long as you learn from your losing.

When we stopped accepting losing as a normal part of living, and motivation to be or do better, we became bitter, selfish, and hostile as a society. Love and acceptance includes tolerance towards those that you see as different. It does not mean that you have to force or demand that those you see as different, have to conform to your point of view, and it does not mean  those that consider themselves different can force or demand that those with opposing views, have to conform to their way of thinking.

Tolerance has to come from both sides or the divide will only become greater. It is easy to see that the majority will always defeat you if you are a minority. That is what being a minority is. It means you are on the losing end. When you are in a situation where you don't want to, or cannot be a member of the majority, the easiest resolution is compromise. Building bridges is not always a perfect solution but it can help both side move forward across the divide.

I have had an anger management problem since I was a wee tot. I have done a darn good job of learning to control it over the years. A few things are still a challenge for me. Trying to force me to do something I don't want to do, and telling me I can't do something that I "believe" I can do, are at the top of the list. Forcing someone to do something is never a good move towards a peaceful compromise.

Just for the sake of honesty and forthrightness, the one thing at the very top of the list is not manageable. If someone spits on me, I am going to jail, or they will have to kill me. Albeit they will get off with a justifiable plea of self defense.
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#5
"Hate Speech" is a very slippery slope. What does it even mean? 

As it is highly subjective, it can mean whatever you want it to mean. Use it against whomever you want. Whenever you want.   

Matter of fact, it is an amazing tool for censorship and suppression.
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#6
This is really bad...

So okay, someone wants to speak in a hateful manner about transgender people. But will not do it, only because it is illegal now. How has the situation changed for the better this way?

Anyone, anywhere can hate me. And i am willing to die for their right to do so.
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#7
Remember that Scotland has done the same thing, and that the rest of the UK will follow. Soon we shall have to buy the government/NKVD "life style improvement device" that will have to be put in each room.
Remember also that screaming "O GOD" in the bedroom will be seen as hate speech as the use of the word God offends the left.
So the list of approved words will be
O lenin
O Stalin
O AOC
O Corbyn
O Kamala ( might cause some misunderstandings in Finland as it means horrible, ect)
More to be added later
WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, THE EU IS FATHER AND MOTHER / FEAR NOT DEATH, BUT FEAR THE WAY YOU WILL DIE
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#8
@Wallfire i think the time is ripe soon, to rebel!

I don't have any thoughts about transgender people. They are persons, so what?

But i am ready to lie and say bad stuff about them. Let's overflow the system.
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