Comments on Europe

[F2d5thCav]

Opening a thread to post various comments about the European scene -- social, political, military, economic, etc.

I will not mention UK in this thread as @"BIAD" already has a thread going for that.

So, for an opener, I will post this image that depicts the use of currencies in Europe.  Because the EU gets so much press, it is easy to fall into the habit of thinking of the EU as the whole of Europe, and the Euro as the only currency used in Europe.  This, however, is not the case at all: there are even several EU nations that have retained their national currencies.

This perception is not idle grumbling.  The notion of EU = Europe is used as a propaganda tool by supporters of the European Union to shut down populists in European countries, both EU and non-EU: "We want to be part of EUROPE, why don't you?!"

An absurd proposition, because, of course, ALL of those countries are ALREADY part of Europe, and have been since the idea of "Europe" was conceived.  Yet, the propaganda is effective, because too many swallow that notion without much thought, and rush to surrender hard-won sovereignty to a group of un-elected super-bureaucrats as well as a small clique of national leaders who give a strong appearance of being more equal than others.

Note 1: the image should show Switzerland in green, as it has not adopted the Euro as its national currency.
Note 2: the location given for Liechtenstein is not accurate; it is on the eastern side of Switzerland.


(Image: Daily Express)

Cheers

[BIAD]

Nice post F2d5thCav and I agree with your assumption that 'Europe' as a continent of countries
is actually displayed as a party of a political consensus that enjoys all the benefits that comes with
a certain line of thinking.

For the UK -where the article is from, it's another example of the 'gang' which we wished to no longer
belong to. Any currency is based on an accepted value of what a country is 'worth' in regards of
commodities needed by others, the Euro is based on nothing more than the worth of its sum members.
Alone, it holds no power.

Before the European Union existed, those who wished to join together in trade for mutual purposes were
known as 'the Common Market' and renamed later to the European Economic Community.
Even back then -even as late as the nineties, many could see that this evolvement was merely Germany
acquiring control over nations in a different manner it attempted in the 1940's.


When it became the EU, it was obvious that Germany and it's willing-wards France and the UK, were to be
the voices of that group and any laws would be perused by them before being issued to the weaker countries
that needed the confidence of being in a group.

But since the Pound Sterling holds a special position in how the world is ran and the UK refused to relinquish
a currency that was as prominent as the dollar (Bretton Woods), the UK public's enthusiasm for the EU had
waned.

That's fine, politics rarely listens to the public and in Britain's case, as long as they don't ask the right question,
those who are elected don't have to hear an answer they don't want. Except... former Prime Minister David
Cameron made that question one of the main planks for his election bid.
And his countrymen answered!

I believe the EU will eventually -like all empires, crumble and become a dwarfed entity of what it wanted to be.
Maybe its members will eventually cast-off this current need to rely on others and dare to embrace the notion
of self-responsibility.

We'll see.

[Finspiracy]

In a nutshell, the European union is nothing but a step, or a phase, in the agenda of the ruling elite to create a totalitarian fascist new world order.

Finland should leave EU immediately and throw all agreements made in the name of EU straight into the trash can.

We were cheated into this shit. "Food will get cheaper... gasoline will get cheaper" and NOTHING got cheaper and they even had the arrogance to take my aroma cigarettes from between my God damn lips. (It was something stupid, as the EU as a whole... like a flavor ban in cigarettes, but menthol got extra time, which actually builds up fluids into lungs)

My forefathers fought for this country. They fought hard. My grandfather, from mom's side, was shot in the neck but somehow survived and lived until the early years of this millennium. My grandfather from dad's side was a child during the war and was sent to Sweden as a war child. Grandma had to escape her home in Karelia because the Soviets were coming. And for what? For what??? To willingly give our independence to Brussels and let them command us how they please. What a fucking national shame, in my opinion.

I wish the Finnish people had the same courage as the Fine people of Great Britain, and just leave EU.

[Wallfire]

In a nutshell, the European union is nothing but a step, or a phase, in the agenda of the ruling elite to create a totalitarian fascist new world order.

Finland should leave EU immediately and throw all agreements made in the name of EU straight into the trash can.

We were cheated into this shit. "Food will get cheaper... gasoline will get cheaper" and NOTHING got cheaper and they even had the arrogance to take my aroma cigarettes from between my God damn lips. (It was something stupid, as the EU as a whole... like a flavor ban in cigarettes, but menthol got extra time, which actually builds up fluids into lungs)

My forefathers fought for this country. They fought hard. My grandfather, from mom's side, was shot in the neck but somehow survived and lived until the early years of this millennium. My grandfather from dad's side was a child during the war and was sent to Sweden as a war child. Grandma had to escape her home in Karelia because the Soviets were coming. And for what? For what??? To willingly give our independence to Brussels and let them command us how they please. What a fucking national shame, in my opinion.

I wish the Finnish people had the same courage as the Fine people of Great Britain, and just leave EU.

There is a lot of anger boiling in Finland. People are sick of the EU telling us how many rapists' and murders we have to take, of the refugees just taking more and more money, no one seems to be listening to the people. The EU needs to be rebuilt as something for the true people of Europe.

[F2d5thCav]

So here is another map, one that shows the members of the Union (and if they use the Euro), as well as other European states.

This is background information for any discussions of economics and finance in the Union.

Of note is that use of the Euro is a huge binding mechanism with regard to the using states and the Union itself.  No country has, as yet, tried to withdraw from use of the Euro and return to a national currency; this scenario is regarded as very problematic even if the Union were favorably disposed to such a measure . . . and the Union would in all likelihood NOT look well upon such a move.



Cheers

[F2d5thCav]

The New Way to establish an empire; or, Stukas and Panzers are so twentieth-century . . .



A misleading aspect of the history of the World Wars is that they lend the impression that obtaining control over other countries is a matter of military conquest.

The truth of the matter, as usual, is far more nuanced.  Military conquest is indeed one method of establishing control over other countries, but one that is fraught with risk, the most important of which is a failed gambit resulting in one's own defeat.

Indeed, as far the EU goes, military methods must rank among the least important because so many EU countries have allowed their defense establishments to remarkably wither since the end of the Cold War.  Thus, for what is purported to originally have been a trade union, finances are of high importance.

Naked take-overs of a country's financial establishments (and currency abolishment), however, are hardly popular with an informed populace.  Thus, a second method of control is needed to ensure the people are not roused by opposing parties -- control of a nation's media.

Control of finances is control of a national economy.  It accomplishes the traditional goal of war without the messiness of battles, occupation regimes, and, if a country is so inclined, "nation building".  Control of the media makes it look like everything is hunky-dory because opposing voices can be censored, strongly limiting their reach.

One of the dirty secrets of the EU is that it is not a trade "union" at all.  It is an economic empire, a sort of successor to Napoleon's Continental System.  And, in this empire, not all of the animals are equal.  A handful of privileged countries are the economic engines (although one, Germany, is strongly dominant), and the rest are providers of labor and raw materials.  Despite open borders and no internal tariffs, it is remarkable how the bulk of national products remain within their countries of origin.  A "unified Europe" it may proclaim itself to be, but one won't find croissants of authentic taste outside of France.  There are some exceptions to this situation; certain alcoholic beverages, and, the troika of machines / vehicles / tools.  Very few other products cross national frontiers, revealing a protectionist attitude based on national lines, even if only informally so.  (Formerly communist countries suffer from a significant trade imbalance with other Union countries, having been effectively economically colonized following the fall of the Berlin Wall.  Thus, they import many Western products without exporting much in the other direction.)

The control of finances is a done deal in some countries (Euro users) and a running battle in others.  Likewise, control of media is an ongoing struggle, one in which Germany puts significant effort if the reach of German media kingpins is taken as an indicator.

Countries that have adopted the Euro have effectively surrendered their sovereignty.  They may occasionally bristle at regulation by Brussels or say something out of turn, but their economies have been "captured" without a single shot being fired.  Of course, a country might opt to abandon the Euro as a national currency, but that entails the risk of serious economic disruption as well as fiery condemnation by the officials of the Union, who will miss no opportunity to influence the politics of the targeted country (we begin to see why control of the media is important) and impose heavy economic penalties.  If anyone thinks I exaggerate here, I will only point to the example of BrExit to demonstrate how the Union "negotiates" with those who wish to leave the EU system in parts or completely.

But, to point to Brussels as a source of power is an exercise in self-deception.  For it is not the Belgians who call the shots in the Union.  Rather, it is (dominantly) Germany, and to a lesser extent, France.  With the U.K. out of the EU, all other EU members are now supplicants to the Franco-German alliance.  One might pointedly note that while Union propaganda stresses that Union citizens should think of themselves as "Europeans" (and not Czechs, Italians, etc.), that descriptor is seldom heard or used by Germans or Frenchmen.  They remain what they have always been, even if their national policies seem alarmingly at odds with their traditions and customs.

We are left to conclude that a true map of power in the EU would not count representatives in the EU parliament or other such meaningless indicators.  No, the "true map" would depict the extent of financial and economic influence of one country over other countries, as well as show who owns the national media of those countries.  Only then, would we grasp from where the tentacles of power extend, and how muscular they are.

Cheers

[Wallfire]

Very very well said 

[F2d5thCav]

Another map!

This map is intended to display, in broad strokes, the alliances of European states, and where they overlap.



Some takeaways:

[1] Most of the European NATO members are also members of the European Union.  Put sharply, this situation is not good for the USA, the UK, and Canada.

Oh, but why?  Because NATO and the EU exist for different purposes.  The Union has its own foreign policy goals and initiatives, some of which have little to do with the interests of extra-EU NATO members (like the USA); yet, NATO binds its members in a collective security pact.

A prime example of the risk involved was demonstrated during the Ukrainian "Orange Revolution".  Leading up to that event was an EU "economic initiative" meant to reorient the thrust of Ukraine's economy away from Russia and towards the EU.  Recall that the then-leader of Ukraine decided to accept the EU initiative . . . at which point Putin threw a fit.  This caused the Ukrainian leader to perform an about-face . . . but that reconsideration was followed by the revolution, and then military intervention by Russia which has since resulted in a significant amount of Ukrainian territory being occupied by Russian military and paramilitary forces.

The critical question here is, had Russia decided to make demands of the EU by way of retaliation, how obligated was NATO to respond to what was essentially a huge miscalculation of EU (read: German) foreign and economic policy?

This situation has gotten even more muddled with the establishment of military units in EU countries that answer only to the EU and not to NATO.  At some point, a military crisis will emerge and the dysfunction of this situation will be to the disadvantage of both parties.

[2] See the little blob of red between Poland and Lithuania?  That is Russian territory -- the Kaliningrad Exclave.  The Exclave is home to plenty of Russian troops, and Russian troops are also stationed in Belarus.  That situation means only a narrow corridor of NATO/EU territory connects Lithuania and Poland: the "Suwalki Gap".  In terms of political geography, these kind of situations are always considered to be a war waiting to happen.  Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia used to be Soviet Socialist Republics in the USSR, and the politicians of today's Russia are none too happy with them enthusiastically embracing membership in the EU and NATO.

[3] Another security aspect worth noting are the Islamic countries that are members of NATO.  In the event of a broad West:Islam conflict, it is doubtful they would be much concerned about their obligations to NATO.  Note well the current disputes between Turkey and Greece also hinge more upon the ancient conflict between the West and Islam than the subordinate issues concerning migration and fishing rights.

[4] At the tip of Spain is British territory: Gibraltar.  Gibraltar is an on-and-off scene of confrontation between British and Spanish authorities, or, put in terms of alliances, between NATO and EU authorities.

[5] In terms of alliances, the Balkan states are all over the place.  Given the region's reputation as the "powder-keg of Europe", that is another dysfunctional situation.

One won't see much discussion of these issues and dysfunction in the MSM.  Even just compiling this map was an hour-long exercise as such "looks" are not distributed in information sources commonly accessed by the public.

Cheers

[F2d5thCav]

How committees disable democracy, European-style

On this topic, I'm really a fish out of water, so the Europeans on our site may wish to make comments of their own about this topic.

The term "western democracies" is truly so broad that it signifies almost nothing.

Let's get one brutal truth out of the way quickly.  A "democracy" and a "free society" are not the same thing.  They may coexist in some countries, but having one is not a guarantee of having the other.

Most of the European countries, EU or not, are in fact authoritarian police states.  One must get past the common image of uniformed strongmen beating up protesters; those scenes identify acts of repression, but are not everyday aspects of life in a police state.

The police state in truth is one in which the public authorities exercise enough control to throttle political developments they do not care for, and are empowered by the law in doing so.  Often, the laws include statutes identifying the penalties for insult or slander, and the authorities easily use these laws to punish anyone who doesn't very carefully formulate criticism or complaints.  When people know that simply for "giving the bird", they can be charged a thousand Euros, it places them in a mental cage of their own making from which don't stray too far.

In Europe, one is required to register with the authorities so that they know where one resides, and this act is a prerequisite to interacting with government services in any form.  It is a basic element of the state's reach into the individual's life; "we know where you are" (and if we don't, you are a criminal).  In such ways, European societies have less freedom than that to which Americans are accustomed.  In the USA, the individual is a cult figure; in Europe, social order is held more valuable than individual expression. 

Thus, as populist movements have emerged in recent years in several European countries, a political challenge developed for the traditional political parties:  how to keep the newcomers out, or, at least, in a position of little influence.  This mentality has developed as a by-product of support for the European Union.  The populists don't want national membership in the Union, thus their power must be curbed.

Sweden and Germany provide clear examples of this process in action.  In both countries, the amount of immigration has increased enough to trigger the emergence of populist movements.  These populist movements are oriented against the European Union because the EU encourages immigration, particularly from the Middle East and Africa.

Although the democratic political process of Sweden and Germany have allowed the populists to win seats in the national parliaments, their influence has been neatly curbed by unusual behavior of the traditional parties.  That is to say, traditional parties that were in opposition to each for decades suddenly agreed to form 'coalition governments' in which the traditional parties shared power . . . a tactic adopted solely for the purpose of keeping the populists out of power (read: avoid having populist politicians as government ministers).  So while no traditional party had a majority of the votes, these odd coalitions can claim to have a majority and thus hold the populists outside of the centers of power.

While this tactic works, it has a huge downside: not much of importance is addressed by the coalition governments because the traditional parties can't agree on anything except maintaining the coalition to keep the newcomers out of power.  Not only that, but it also undermines the concept of democracy itself.  If a group of people can become numerous enough to elect representatives to a government yet not have any influence within it . . . at some point, those people will see no utility in participating in democracy and will seek other ways to obtain and exercise power.

Seen this way, the coalition government formation tactic is just slamming a lid down upon a boiling pot.  The lid can hold for a while, but at some point, it will be spectacularly blown off the pot.  There is no specific timeline for this blow-up to occur.  The authoritarian nature of the European governments gives them a great deal of control over the national media, and thus there is little discussion in the media about these topics.  It follows then that the traditional parties feel little pressure to genuinely address the problems and even less motivation to engage in self-reflection and self-correction.  Yet, at some point, a societal correction occurs whether it is in the interest of the traditional parties or not.

Welcome to Europe.  Beneath the smooth exterior of the cafe society and its pleasing architecture, there are troubling currents and thoroughly discontented inhabitants.  Not all by any means, but the numbers of those who believe they have become losers are rapidly increasing.

Cheers

[Wallfire]

Most of what you say is on the button, most of the people of Europe are sick of the EU because its not serving the people. This site give good info as to what is going on link
A lot of people see the EU as a Soros/islam controlled state, and as I said we have passed the tipping point and have a war on the way

[hounddoghowlie]

your post made me think about these. a laugh or two from the past,

first Public Disservice Message,





and the true immigrants,

[F2d5thCav]

More dysfunction.

https://www.dw.com/en/over-a-thousand-mi...a-55231085

Over a thousand migrants landed in the Canary Islands (part of EU) over the last two days.

A lack of political will, and, an unwillingness to realize that political entities with no control over their borders have lost their sovereignty.

Cheers

[F2d5thCav]

In a previous comment, I mentioned:

One of the dirty secrets of the EU is that it is not a trade "union" at all.  It is an economic empire, a sort of successor to Napoleon's Continental System.  And, in this empire, not all of the animals are equal.  A handful of privileged countries are the economic engines (although one, Germany, is strongly dominant), and the rest are providers of labor and raw materials.

So I found comments in this 12 May 2020 Telegraph article of interest:

Central Europe needed to be [in the EU] for geostrategic reasons (to be in the Transatlantic sphere of influence and also serve as a cordon sanitaire for any eventuality), for geopolitical reasons (to avoid a resurgence of “nationalism”, a real anathema to globalist ears), and for economic reasons (not to become competitors but a source of cheap labour and mass market).  The past 30 years have indeed brought a type of capitalism, the kind that globalism brings to an impoverished colony which has had no chance to build the foundations of its own sustainable economy. The result is a vulnerable and imbalanced economic structure that the literature calls dependent market economies, stuck as low-level links in what is elegantly called ”international division of labour”, producing hundreds of thousands of emigrants and huge domestic inequality.

Thus, the EU manages cynical games.  On the one hand, countries east of Germany are robbed for their less well-paid skilled labor while on the other hand, EU countries in the west complain bitterly about Poles and others competing for jobs.  Countries east of Germany offer very attractive tax relief to firms from western EU countries (primarily Germany and France), with the result that their own firms cannot compete, even on their home turf.  And while this odious form of economic colonialism is going on,

These countries are regularly harangued by an EU ruling class, as self-righteous as it is undemocratic. How dare they refuse to accept migrant quotas dreamt up by the masters of the EU? Their internal affairs are constantly questioned and criticised with the EU Parliament sitting in judgement over them like a school board deciding on disciplinary action against naughty schoolchildren. Every step they take to act in their own interest is greeted with the sanctimonious indignation of the “international community”.

Mainstream media foments the outrage presenting them in a boringly uniform script as rogue countries in need of some great moral authority, such as the EU, to put them in their place. They also have their homegrown comprador class, which cares not who the foreign ruler is as long as there is one protecting their vested interests and privileges. The constant pressure creates internal problems impossible to solve in an atmosphere of besiegement.

Clearly, this "Union" is not an association of peers.  The oddities of a year of COVID contagion have only piled pressure onto this creaking structure.  While the UK has approved a vaccine for use, Germans wonder why they have not yet been allowed to get the vaccine, especially as German firms were involved in the research for its creation.  But this is no surprise.  In a trade union with (supposedly) open borders, most European produced goods never leave their country of origin, and even when they do, only certain classes of those goods are exported.  Shopping at a store in any EU nation, one gets the impression that in terms of available products ... not much has changed.

The rich elites of the continent are getting much wealthier.  The ordinary people ... not so much.  And even the benefits that once applied to all -- easy transit of national borders between certain countries -- have withered under the controls imposed to combat COVID.

Cheers

[BIAD]

... The rich elites of the continent are getting much wealthier.  The ordinary people ... not so much.
And even the benefits that once applied to all -- easy transit of national borders between certain countries
--have withered under the controls imposed to combat COVID.

Cheers

The public's perception through the mainstream media lens is that the EU -a system involving twenty-seven
countries and manages their respective agreed laws and marketplaces, holds sway when dealing with nations
outside of their clique.

Yet when the real decision-making is undertaken regarding an external country wishing to interact with European
countries, the cameras of the same legacy media shows you Merkel and Macron.

Not Merkel, Macron and twenty-five other elected representatives who are in the European Union, just those two.
The propaganda that has been shovelled towards the public in regards of the EU rivals the goody-two-shoe trash
thrown around about Biden and his gang.

There are Elites and they watch their sheep-pen closely.

[F2d5thCav]

Indeed they do, @"BIAD".

I think the men of the Allied countries and Russia/Soviet Union who lost their lives in the World Wars would be rather startled to see the outcome of a century of European conflict.

Cheers

[BIAD]

Indeed they do, @"BIAD".

I think the men of the Allied countries and Russia/Soviet Union who lost their lives in the World Wars would be rather startled to see the outcome of a century of European conflict.

Cheers

I certainly agree. It seems the established Elites -who never really change, adhere to Kiki Dee's words
in one of the her songs.
"...When something gets in my way I go round it..."

[F2d5thCav]

So, amid the latest inability to reach a trade agreement between the UK and the EU, France and other EU countries have now closed their borders with the UK. No freight is moving between the continent and the UK.

The public explanation is the "new strain" of COVID found in southeast England.

Or is it just hardball politics ?

Notably, when COVID first arrived in Europe (and tens of thousands died in Italy and Spain), the movement of people was restricted.  But not goods.  The trucks continued to move and deliver their cargo.

But now, as the French government faces the reality of their access to British fishing waters going away ... well, GAWRSH!, we need to close the borders because something something virus.

It is hard to imagine the EU being fondly recalled in the future.  At best, it will be recalled as an unbounded excess of bureaucratic zeal compounded by a fatal disconnect from reality.

Cheers

[F2d5thCav]

@"BIAD" 

"...When something gets in my way I go round it..."

In the American armored forces, our version was, "Haul ass and bypass".

Cheers

[Ninurta]

So, amid the latest inability to reach a trade agreement between the UK and the EU, France and other EU countries have now closed their borders with the UK.  No freight is moving between the continent and the UK.

The public explanation is the "new strain" of COVID found in southeast England.

Or is it just hardball politics ?

Notably, when COVID first arrived in Europe (and tens of thousands died in Italy and Spain), the movement of people was restricted.  But not goods.  The trucks continued to move and deliver their cargo.

But now, as the French government faces the reality of their access to British fishing waters going away ... well, GAWRSH!, we need to close the borders because something something virus.

It is hard to imagine the EU being fondly recalled in the future.  At best, it will be recalled as an unbounded excess of bureaucratic zeal compounded by a fatal disconnect from reality.

Cheers

Some of the US Democrats are calling for the same thing, citing the same reason. It's almost like a Soros-esque plan to attempt to force the UK back into the EU sheep-fold, isn't it?

From what I understand of this new strain, it's no worse than the old one, although it is alleged to spread somewhat faster - 7% faster according to some reports. which really ain't much. The genie is already out of the bottle and hammering the US, so why worry about it now? No point to shunning the UK when the covid barbarian is already inside the gates here, so I have to ask myself the WHY, the real reason behind these actions, and that is what I come up with a Soros-esque plan by Globalist Marxists to attempt to force the UK back into the sheep fold from which they are escaping, the effort this time being to attempt to choke 'em out.

ETA: Someone else said 70% faster, so they must have left a zero off the first estimate I read. Now I wonder what sort of viral engineering would cause a virus to spread faster without making it any more dangerous? HOW does it spread faster? Is it jumping through masks? jumping more than the six foot separation distance on tiny little virus legs? Something stinks to me about this "mutation"...

.

.

[F2d5thCav]

@"Ninurta" 

I was in Europe when Germany reunited, and later, when the last Soviet troops went home.

There was a palpable feeling of hope all over Europe.  People felt like the page was finally turning on the brutal conflicts of the 20th century.

30 years later, here we are.  The EU operates with selective repression and enforces its rules equally selectively.  The economies of eastern Europe are kept in a state of perpetual exploitation so that a very few in the western half of the continent can grow obscenely wealthy.  Rich nations like Germany shirk their NATO obligations while cutting deals with Russia that are disadvantageous to both NATO and other members of the EU.

And so many people were shocked that Trump spoke bluntly to the Europeans about their financial, trade, and defense practices.

In 30 short years (less actually) the European leadership pissed away an opportunity that very few nations ever experience.  A colossal failure, not only of leadership, but of vision as well.

@"Wallfire" has pointed out there are dark clouds gathering on Europe's horizons.  The disconnect from reality is too great here, and reality will come calling.

Cheers