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Ongoing puberty suppression should be an available treatment option for non-binary ad
#1
Just dropping this off here with no opinion. 

Quote:The use of medications to suppress puberty (puberty suppression or puberty blockers) in young people who identify as transgender (trans) or gender diverse (TGD) has generated ongoing debate in the media and bioethics literature. Puberty blockers are typically recommended as a treatment option for TGD young people who are experiencing gender dysphoria (roughly, distress associated with their body not matching their gender identity). Many TGD young people who take puberty blockers later decide to start hormone (testosterone or estrogen) treatment to bring about desired changes in their body. Others decide to stop taking puberty blockers, meaning that their body will re-enter the puberty consistent with the sex they were categorised as at birth (their ‘biological sex’). But what if a young person starts puberty blockers, and wishes to stay on them indefinitely?

We examine such a case in our Feature Article published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, titled ‘Forever young? The ethics of ongoing puberty suppression for non-binary adults.’ In this blog post, we explain how we became interested in this topic, summarise our key arguments, and highlight some of our related research.


https://blogs.bmj.com/medical-ethics/202...so-needed/
The Truth is Out There, Somewhere
#2
I'm curious about your motivation for posting this, particularly without comment or an opinion?
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
#3
(07-28-2020, 06:20 AM)Freija Wrote: I'm curious about your motivation for posting this, particularly without comment or an opinion.
I would think, @"kdog"  was looking for someone else to comment, simply because he has no idea what to say, like me, I would hate to offend someone with what I thought about this.

I personally think most young people don't Know WTF is going on because they are following a trend of types, they want to feel different or like they belong to a victimize group so they can whine and cry about not being Loved or Appreciated or Understood.

I personally think their Asses Need To be Drafted into a Military Service and taught responsibility and discipline and some self worth. 
But I don't want to make people here feel uneasy by me giving my opinion which is normally not with the current trend and kind of harsh.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
[Image: attachment.php?aid=936]
#4
I’m sure some would find my opinion about this to be offensive as well so for now, I’ll just throw a few other things out there for the sake of discussion.

First of all, the article and full linked paper involve a hypothetical case for the purpose of examining the bioethical concerns involved for medical professionals if they were presented with such a scenario.

For those that haven’t read the linked source, the proposed scenario was what if an 18 year old natal female that “identified” with the nebulous term of non-binary that somehow had been put on puberty blockers at age 11 (which IMO is an ethical concern in itself) was wishing to continue the use of “puberty blockers” so that they could prevent the development of secondary sexual characteristics and basically remain in a prepubertal state indefinitely into adulthood.

Ten of the twelve affiliated contributing authors of this exercise were from Australia. Up until very recently, lengthy and expensive court review and approval was necessary before even properly medically diagnosed legitimate trans youth could be put on so called puberty blockers so this what if scenario is planning for the eventuality that one day such a case may be presented.

That’s really all I’m going to add for now but it should be noted in wide ranging studies with large sample sizes, 80% plus of those claiming to have a “non-binary” identity are biological females and the ratio of girls wishing to transition into boys is double that of natal males going the other way when traditionally just the opposite was true.

This raises the bigger question of what we’re doing to young girls to make them reject womanhood?
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
#5
(07-28-2020, 09:10 AM)Freija Wrote: I’m sure some would find my opinion about this to be offensive as well so for now, I’ll just throw a few other things out there for the sake of discussion.

First of all, the article and full linked paper involve a hypothetical case for the purpose of examining the bioethical concerns involved for medical professionals if they were presented with such a scenario.

For those that haven’t read the linked source, the proposed scenario was what if an 18 year old natal female that “identified” with the nebulous term of non-binary that somehow had been put on puberty blockers at age 11 (which IMO is an ethical concern in itself) was wishing to continue the use of “puberty blockers” so that they could prevent the development of secondary sexual characteristics and basically remain in a prepubertal state indefinitely into adulthood.

Ten of the twelve affiliated contributing authors of this exercise were from Australia. Up until very recently, lengthy and expensive court review and approval was necessary before even properly medically diagnosed legitimate trans youth could be put on so called puberty blockers so this what if scenario is planning for the eventuality that one day such a case may be presented.

That’s really all I’m going to add for now but it should be noted in wide ranging studies with large sample sizes, 80% plus of those claiming to have a “non-binary” identity are biological females and the ratio of girls wishing to transition into boys is double that of natal males going the other way when traditionally just the opposite was true.

This raises the bigger question of what we’re doing to young girls to make them reject womanhood?
Strange thing I was involved in a discussion about why so many young girls are rejecting women hood. One reason given was that so many men from ME and African countries have been let in and given free hands to continue raping and oppressing women and children that the young girls no longer feel safe anywhere. The governments dont protect them nor can the police, so the young girls see only a future of rape oppression and been used for sex. Not something any one wants to look forward to.
#6
(07-28-2020, 07:17 AM)guohua Wrote:
(07-28-2020, 06:20 AM)Freija Wrote: I'm curious about your motivation for posting this, particularly without comment or an opinion.
I would think, @"kdog"  was looking for someone else to comment, simply because he has no idea what to say, like me, I would hate to offend someone with what I thought about this.

I personally think most young people don't Know WTF is going on because they are following a trend of types, they want to feel different or like they belong to a victimize group so they can whine and cry about not being Loved or Appreciated or Understood.

I personally think their Asses Need To be Drafted into a Military Service and taught responsibility and discipline and some self worth. 
But I don't want to make people here feel uneasy by me giving my opinion which is normally not with the current trend and kind of harsh.
I agree fully, but i would ask who is behind the this all, why are men not let be men, and women not let be women ?
#7
(07-28-2020, 09:10 AM)Freija Wrote: I’m sure some would find my opinion about this to be offensive as well so for now, I’ll just throw a few other things out there for the sake of discussion.

Well ... I ain't skeered ... LOL

People are making too much of an issue with 'all this crap' lately.  It hasn't been this much of an issue for thousands and thousands of years ... so, why all of a sudden?

I haven't given a Lot of thought to all of these things.  I won't either.

I think guys took a little girl's chastity way too seriously ... with false shock and drama (from both genders) ... when their post-pubescent daughters started humpin'.  That's how you wind up with 30YO grandmothers running around (and around here it seems to be relatively common).

What I notice is this: There don't seem to be any extreme health concerns with grandma, daughter or granddaughter.  I don't see the autism incidence that I do in womenz who wait into their 30s to start makin' babies.

Where's @"rickymouse"? I'd like to know what he thinks.

As far as the ability for people to make informed and 'wise' decisions: Maybe we ought'a stop and think about that before spouting off.  We both know how old we are, @"Freija" , and I freely admit I _don't_ have the wisdom to make such calls.  Do you think _any_ child does?

[Image: My-Mom-s-Gonna-Kill-Me.jpg]
'Cause if they catch you in the back seat trying to pick her locks
They're gonna send you back to Mother in a cardboard box
You better run!
#8
(07-28-2020, 01:21 PM)Wallfire Wrote: Strange thing I was involved in a discussion about why so many young girls are rejecting women hood. One reason given was that so many men from ME and African countries have been let in and given free hands to continue raping and oppressing women and children that the young girls no longer feel safe anywhere. The governments dont protect them nor can the police, so the young girls see only a future of rape oppression and been used for sex. Not something any one wants to look forward to.

Certainly this could be a legit factor in countries where this sort of thing is prevalent but I think there are many other issues involved such as the way women are sexualized in general in modern culture and media. All I have to say is I am glad to not be raising a young daughter or granddaughter right now. With social media and so many outside influences, it’s hardly practical these days to think that leading by example and role modeling has the same sway it once did.

(07-28-2020, 01:44 PM)Snarl Wrote: People are making too much of an issue with 'all this crap' lately.  It hasn't been this much of an issue for thousands and thousands of years ... so, why all of a sudden?

I couldn’t agree more. It sells papers and is clickworthy is part of the reason and with increased awareness and exposure, some have become more comfortable expressing themselves in non-traditional ways. I'll check myself right here so I don't go off on a tirade about radical trans activism considering this whole non-binary bullshit and 256 genders falls under the ever broadening scope of the vague and meaningless “transgender umbrella”.

’Snarl’ Wrote:I haven't given a Lot of thought to all of these things.  I won't either.

Probably for the best? It’ll save you a lot of grief!

’Snarl’ Wrote:As far as the ability for people to make informed and 'wise' decisions: Maybe we ought'a stop and think about that before spouting off.  We both know how old we are, @"Freija" , and I freely admit I _don't_ have the wisdom to make such calls.  Do you think _any_ child does?

Actually, I would say that yes, some children do. For some children, there isn’t really any decision involved, it’s just the way they are.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
#9
(07-28-2020, 03:59 PM)Freija Wrote:
’Snarl’ Wrote:I haven't given a Lot of thought to all of these things.  I won't either.

Probably for the best? It’ll save you a lot of grief!

See?  That's another wise thing you've taught me!!   minusculebonker   Makes me think.  Keeps me thinking.

minusculebeercheers
'Cause if they catch you in the back seat trying to pick her locks
They're gonna send you back to Mother in a cardboard box
You better run!
#10
(07-28-2020, 01:21 PM)Wallfire Wrote: Strange thing I was involved in a discussion about why so many young girls are rejecting women hood. One reason given was that so many men from ME and African countries have been let in and given free hands to continue raping and oppressing women and children that the young girls no longer feel safe anywhere. The governments dont protect them nor can the police, so the young girls see only a future of rape oppression and been used for sex. Not something any one wants to look forward to.



I agree with you that very few, if any, wants to be oppressed, raped, or abused. From my experiences working with victims of abuse and asexual assault, girls and boys that are transgender are frequent targets for rape and abuse. I can see how someone would make a logical conclusion based on what they think makes sense, but in this case it is a logical fallacy. I am not saying you won't find a single person that says they are transgender because they don't feel safe and are afraid of being oppressed or raped, but I do believe the number that say that, will be few.

If you speak with children that are willing to talk about their sexuality, in a safe nonthreatening environment, you may be surprised at the answers you will get. I think you would be surprised at the huge variety of answers, because each child is an individual, and can't be lumped together as a single collective. I think the answer that may be closer to the truth is one that very few are willing to consider.

I think religion and social norms, play a greater role in how children view their sexuality than fear, in my opinion. I am not ragging on anyone's religion, though I despise religion and I think a lot of evil is done when it is used as a tool. I believe in God and I love my fellowman, but in many cases the religion of today is something I try to avoid, even talking about.

And for the record, I never ask any of my patients "why". My responsibilities to them makes it important for them to tell me what is, not why it is. So any information outside of what is or what happened, is volunteered information. I know this subject can be very confusing for some. I do not want to come off as an expert, I am not. I am just sharing my experiences, and they may be very different from the experiences of others.

For every one person that read this post. About 7.99 billion have not. 

Yet I still post.  tinyinlove
  • minusculebeercheers 


#11
I... just... can't...

But I'm going to anyhow.

I think the entire subject is a minefield of "ethical concerns". People are simply overcomplicating life in general, and humanity in particular, by synthesizing an ever growing number of "genders" not found in biology. Isn't life difficult and complicated enough already without all this "gender dysphoria" lunacy necessitating the manufacture of entire new genders for feelz? 

Furthermore, the notion that it is even possible to become an adult when one has not even gone through puberty yet is... I'll call it "alien", mostly because I can't think of any word at all that would plumb the depths of the illogic in that notion.

I'm glad I'm old now. I'd absolutely hate to have to endure yet another entire life on this rockball as it spirals down into the abyss of insanity it is heading for. Crap like this is probably why I'm not afraid to die. The alternative is living through perpetuated stupidity, and I'm not down for that.

Life used to be serious business. Now, it's more like an episode of "The Twilight Zone".

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#12
Quote:Crap like this is probably why I'm not afraid to die.

Yeah.  I've felt disconnected for a while now from the directions society is taking.

I won't lecture or lament.  That said, I won't shy away from moving on, either.

Cheers
[Image: 14sigsepia.jpg]

Location: The lost world, Elsewhen
#13
We're officially in a new era of lgbtq x, y and z... and the more it goes, the more confusing it gets.

Puberty blockers at 11. I'm out of words.


minusculewtf




*walks away from this thread before insulting a whole bunch of lgbtq, x, y and z's....
~ Today is the youngest you'll ever be again ~
#14
(07-28-2020, 01:44 PM)Snarl Wrote:
(07-28-2020, 09:10 AM)Freija Wrote: I’m sure some would find my opinion about this to be offensive as well so for now, I’ll just throw a few other things out there for the sake of discussion.

Well ... I ain't skeered ... LOL

People are making too much of an issue with 'all this crap' lately.  It hasn't been this much of an issue for thousands and thousands of years ... so, why all of a sudden?

I haven't given a Lot of thought to all of these things.  I won't either.

I think guys took a little girl's chastity way too seriously ... with false shock and drama (from both genders) ... when their post-pubescent daughters started humpin'.  That's how you wind up with 30YO grandmothers running around (and around here it seems to be relatively common).

What I notice is this: There don't seem to be any extreme health concerns with grandma, daughter or granddaughter.  I don't see the autism incidence that I do in womenz who wait into their 30s to start makin' babies.

Where's @"rickymouse"? I'd like to know what he thinks.

As far as the ability for people to make informed and 'wise' decisions: Maybe we ought'a stop and think about that before spouting off.  We both know how old we are, @"Freija" , and I freely admit I _don't_ have the wisdom to make such calls.  Do you think _any_ child does?

[Image: My-Mom-s-Gonna-Kill-Me.jpg]

I do not know much about Puberty blockers, I can see where they may be medically needed when a child starts to go through puberty at six years old or something, but most times I doubt if using them is good at all.  Why would a doctor be allowed to prescribe a med like that for a child who is not ill?  Desire for wealth and prestige has corrupted our medical industry....oh yeah, sign of Hermes is the sign of commerace.
#15
Polonius:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!

-Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78–82
"I be ridin' they be hatin'."
-Abraham Lincoln
#16
(07-28-2020, 06:20 AM)Freija Wrote: I'm curious about your motivation for posting this, particularly without comment or an opinion?

My motivation was/is first, it was late. Second, wanted to see others opinion. 

I think puberty suppression is just wrong and unethical. If you want to be any gender other than how you were born, you have to wait til you are 18 years old. And I would fully support you then, but not before then.
The Truth is Out There, Somewhere
#17
Social media is all about influence. The new trending job, title, avenue to fame, is "social media influencer". I would not want to be or have a child in our society today. The world is full of malcontents that are constantly looking for validation and acceptance. In a world where almost everyone wants to be something other than who they are, and are so unaccepting of the way they look, how can our children not be affected?

People have been taught to believe they are flawed, and in order to be desirable, and accepted, you have to fit neatly into a selected box. The health and beauty industry makes a fortune off of convincing people that they need corrections to their bodies. The color of their skin is imperfect, the color of their hair, their teeth, their noses, their bellies, their hips, their breast. There are even Doctors doing cosmetic surgery on healthy children without any medical problems what so ever. They are just not happy with how they look.

Children in this society are expected to be smarter, prettier and better, while constantly being told they are stupid, inadequate, and incompetent. In a world were few people even know who they are, how do the children stand a chance? It kind of makes it easy to see why they may want to be anything or anyone other than what the world says they should be.

For every one person that read this post. About 7.99 billion have not. 

Yet I still post.  tinyinlove
  • minusculebeercheers 


#18
I suppose they could after the age of 18 select to take Puberty Suppressions and go to the philippines and other countries and become a ladyboy.
[Image: _Lf8oVzk-Hgo_zldY6IN7lCMCbNEdiDO9FpmZMwY...eLTMXLQrik][Image: 2f1a9b4d93ae2fa4c398a9b956551e79--transe...ppines.jpg] Filipino Ladyboys[Image: meet-filipina-ladyboys-online-dating-tra...ppines.jpg] Yes that is a male or use to be. I think @"727Sky"  can vouch for Ladyboy in his area of the World.

I guess there would be reasons for a gay male to start taking those meds for money reasons.

But it is Highly Unethical for a Doctor to subscribe these meds to someone under 18 years of age and then not without a mental evaluation JMHO.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
[Image: attachment.php?aid=936]
#19
(07-28-2020, 10:42 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Social media is all about influence. The new trending job, title, avenue to fame, is "social media influencer". I would not want to be or have a child in our society today. The world is full of malcontents that are constantly looking for validation and acceptance. In a world where almost everyone wants to be something other than who they are, and are so unaccepting of the way they look, how can our children not be affected?

People have been taught to believe they are flawed, and in order to be desirable, and accepted, you have to fit neatly into a selected box. The health and beauty industry makes a fortune off of convincing people that they need corrections to their bodies. The color of their skin is imperfect, the color of their hair, their teeth, their noses, their bellies, their hips, their breast. There are even Doctors doing cosmetic surgery on healthy children without any medical problems what so ever. They are just not happy with how they look.

Children in this society are expected to be smarter, prettier and better, while constantly being told they are stupid, inadequate, and incompetent. In a world were few people even know who they are, how do the children stand a chance? It kind of makes it easy to see why they may want to be anything or anyone other than what the world says they should be.


Kind of glad my kids weren't involved in social media much. They are 21 and 18 years old. They live their lives as normal people should. Experiencing the world. Loving themselves and the world.
The Truth is Out There, Somewhere
#20
(07-28-2020, 10:45 PM)guohua Wrote: I suppose they could after the age of 18 select to take Puberty Suppressions and go to the philippines and other countries and become a ladyboy.
[Image: _Lf8oVzk-Hgo_zldY6IN7lCMCbNEdiDO9FpmZMwY...eLTMXLQrik][Image: 2f1a9b4d93ae2fa4c398a9b956551e79--transe...ppines.jpg] Filipino Ladyboys[Image: meet-filipina-ladyboys-online-dating-tra...ppines.jpg] Yes that is a male or use to be. I think @"727Sky"  can vouch for Ladyboy in his area of the World.

I guess there would be reasons for a gay male to start taking those meds for money reasons.

But it is Highly Unethical for a Doctor to subscribe these meds to someone under 18 years of age and then not without a mental evaluation JMHO.

"Lady boys" is an interesting term.  They were known by another term when I was a silly sailor many years ago.  

Not being mean, as they were very pretty and it was at times very hard to tell them apart from the real 'ladies'. (early 70's)

They were polite also but I was taught to look for the adam's apple hence that was the first things I looked at whenever approached by any ladies.  Once detected I'd politely excuse myself.

Sigh.

Kind regards,

Bally.


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