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Seattle, Wa. Do you think this is wise?
#21
(07-27-2020, 07:34 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: Most of your bullet points are rhetorical so I will address the few that aren't. I am not Black and haven't had to live in their world of second class citizenry.

I'm not black, either, although I do carry some black blood, and am a minority. The difference between you and I is that I HAVE lived in their world, and have even been a second-class citizen in that world - makes me maybe 4th class as a citiizen there I reckon.

Quote:They have set the guns down in the past, opened dialogue and found themselves back at square one. They have had their fill of talk. They are done.

So - they are unwilling to set their guns down? You are correct - if that is the case, then the time for talk is over, and there is only one resolution possible. if they will not set their guns down to talk, it is not prudent for me to set mine down, either. We can all see where that is going to lead.

I know of no time that they have been "set back to square one" - certainly not in my lifetime, and I'm fairly old. At no time during my years have they been re-enslaved - but see below for a different perspective I have on that score. Blacks as a race are in a far better place than they were during the 50's and 60's - FAR better. Despite the rhetoric coming out of the Democrat Party.

I've lived in the black ghetto, and I KNOW how life goes there. I've also lived out of it, and can therefore see what happens from both sides of the fence. I am convinced, from what I have seen with my own eyes, that American Inner Cities are just an extension of the plantation system of the 1850's and 1860's, owned and operated by the SAME sort of democrats that owned and operated them back then. the only difference now is that they harvest votes to retain power now, instead of the cotton and crops from back then. The answer, to my mind, is to get them out of the inner cities where they are being "kept down by the man", and out into the rest of the nation where they stand a chance to excel and earn a decent living, on a fair footing with the rest of us.

Quote:History has proven revolution yields results. They are following a proven formula.  So I get it. I don't like it, but I get it.

Have you ever lived through one of those "revolutions"? I've not lived all the way through one, and likely won't live all the way through this one, either, but I've seen 'em, and fought in 'em. "Yields results" is an understatement - but they are rarely, if ever, the results being revolted for, and never the results promised. Lots of folks die, and lots of stuff gets blown up. Marxist revolutions are the worst, and this is one of them. Ask Eden Pastora (AKA "Commandante Cerro") how the Sandinista Revolution worked out for him. Ask Trotsky how the Russian Revolution worked out for him. Ask any Chinese folk who lived through the "Cultural revolution" how it worked out for them. Ask any of the Cuban refugees desperately trying to get to Florida to escape their "revolution", even to this day.

You see, what happens is that the Marxists motivate masses of disaffected folks, and generate disaffection if they can't find any, and send them off to fight for the "glorious revolution" with glowing promises of a brighter future, but when the future gets here, it's not as bright as they promised, and those poor masses, their cannon fodder and "useful idiots", end up living under a different jackboot, usually worse and more restrictive than the last one, but a jackboot all the same. I saw first hand how that works in Nicaragua.

Quote:The cause and effect I spoke of earlier. I'm simply not going to bring up all the reasons for all this arbitrary violence, the sentient understand. This will pass when  they feel real change is at hand. Momentum drives them and the media feeds them. They wont give that up. Neither would the Right if they felt their lives were being threatened. This will play out and the question remains, what may we do to change the culture so we never revisit this? That's up to all of us. The Bill of Rights belongs to every American Citizen. It needs to be applied in the manner it is written.

I'm fairly sentient, but I still don't understand the reasons for arbitrary violence. it only begets more violence in response, and if this doesn't calm down, it will, too. Probably more violence than America is prepared to face, more violence than America has seen since the Civil War. The rioters will NEVER feel that "real change is at hand" - they are not prepared to accept any of the change they've gotten so far, and if change is promised, if they got everything they wished for, the goal posts would be changed, by orders from on high.

You are correct - the Right will not give up either when their lives are on the line, and that day is rapidly approaching. Some think it is already here.

I want to know what concrete changes to "the culture" are being demanded. Bullet points. what exactly do they want, in writing so that it can't be changed to something else if they get their first demands. It's not just "the black community" - there are plenty of spoiled white folks out there demanding change as well - they had the gumption to post a list at Chaz or Chop or whatever that experiment in anarchy was finally called in Seattle. Those demands were, in large part, utterly ridiculous and un-winnable - and unworkable... which told me they were not delivering their serious demands.

The Bill of Rights DOES belong to every American citizen, and it IS being applied as written - give me examples that you see otherwise. I know of none, and would appreciate the enlightenment.

.
“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.” ― Ernest Hemingway
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#22
(07-27-2020, 07:34 AM)Antisthenes Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 07:06 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 06:40 AM)Antisthenes Wrote: It's said, nothing happens in a vacuum. Nothing. The key is to have a dialogue before things devolve. When you dont, it's been my experience they do, devolve I mean.   Cause and effect are a real thing. You can't have one sided respect.  I remember as a child when no one cared about others opinions and it often turned into fistfights amongst the boys and some ugly backbiting amongst the girls. If we all want to get past the churlish BS, we all need to respect one another, grow up and be fair. When this passed as it surely will, I pray we remember it and what caused it. History forgotten seems to repeat itself. People want to b e happy, IMHO. To accomplish that, we need mutual respect and fairness. Without it, we'll revisit this again and again and again.

Wise words.

I'm all for dialog - until the guns come out. At that time, the time for talking is over, and any more words are just a wasted effort. Cities are burning, so it appears, to me at least, that the guns are out, but the marauders are still trying to convince us that dialog is still necessary, while they are busy burning the world down. I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced. More talk seems more a distraction and diversionary tactic to me at this point.

In your estimation, what is it that has "caused this" per your last couple of sentences? The rioters are all over the map as to "what caused this", and I'd like to pin it down to find a solution before my own guns come out in response to theirs already being out - if they still want to talk as they claim. So far, their answer to police brutality seems to be an increase in lawlessness and citizen brutality to counter said police brutality and rid us of police protection. Their answer to slavery of 160 years ago is to destroy the history that reminds us of it as a mistake not to be repeated, which to my mind seems counter-productive.

Maybe you see something else as the root cause? I'm open to dialog...

... until the guns come out.

.

Most of your bullet points are rhetorical so I will address the few that aren't. I am not Black and haven't had to live in their world of second class citizenry. They have set the guns down in the past, opened dialogue and found themselves back at square one. They have had their fill of talk. They are done. History has proven revolution yields results. They are following a proven formula.  So I get it. I don't like it, but I get it. The cause and effect I spoke of earlier. I'm simply not going to bring up all the reasons for all this arbitrary violence, the sentient understand. This will pass when  they feel real change is at hand. Momentum drives them and the media feeds them. They wont give that up. Neither would the Right if they felt their lives were being threatened. This will play out and the question remains, what may we do to change the culture so we never revisit this? That's up to all of us. The Bill of Rights belongs to every American Citizen. It needs to be applied in the manner it is written.

I think at the very least they come up with replacement organizations before defunding the current ones. People are getting shot in these police free zones, or whatever they call them. Criminals need to be put somewhere. Make reform centers instead of jails, call it something other than police with the reform you want in place to replace them. Don't just stOP criminal justice
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#23
Stay tuned ....................more stupid to come.  tinybiggrin
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#24
Quote:"Yields results" is an understatement

One of the things about communist societies that is poorly understood (if understood at all) in the West, is that, after the violence ends, how utterly corrupt those societies become.

There is -no- social equality.  There are ordinary folks, the paid agents of the surveillance state, the officials of that state, and the top ring of the elite.  Each group lives better than the other, and anyone who is foolish enough to speak up about the injustice of the structure is jailed or 'disappeared'.

Because of that, each group that doesn't have all of the benefits seeks to better their situation via shortcuts and 'unofficial solutions' [read: bribes and favors].  Over years, that behavior becomes so ingrained in the group mentality that it is almost impossible to shake even when the communists lose power.

The communist style of government more or less permanently damages societies.  The former Warsaw Pact countries still live under the shadow of these effects.  Russia and Ukraine are incredibly corrupt; whether they eventually get away from that mentality is an open question.

We think we have problems with corruption in the USA.  Yes, there is a problem with corruption in the USA ... but we haven't seen anything yet.  Communism, in any form, is not a place a country wants to go, because, once there, there is no way back.

Cheers
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Location: The lost world, Elsewhen
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#25
(07-27-2020, 03:54 AM)guohua Wrote: @hutch622 
Quote:I would love to know what you perceive the situation in Australia to be .

Excellent, Thank You coming replying.
China has Flooded your Colleges and Universities with Chinese students.
What I understand from my old comrades still in the MSS is this.
China or I should say the CCP is Donating a Great Deal of Money into the Pockets of the Alumni.

Much like America's Universities and Colleges.

However the question of how Australia should manage its relationship with China has new urgency when when I heard about Beijing’s attempts to influence Australian politics and interfere with civil society debate. 
Is this True?
First came revelations about large political donations from ethnic Chinese linked to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that were being used to try to alter the China policy of major Australian political parties. I think this was last year.

One popular politician was put out of parliament after it was revealed that he pandered to Chinese language media on South China Sea policy and warned his CCP linked political patron about government surveillance. 
Then came questions about China’s growing influence in Australian Universities and about CCP linked efforts to co-opt Chinese language media and civic groups in the Chinese Australian Community. 

It all comes down to Money and Greed and Politicians are Power Crazy and Greedy! Do you agree?

China has the Money to Bribe these people, why?
For more the 25 years America has made China one of the Wealthiest Countries On Earth!
They are using their Wealth to Spy and Steal and Control.

Sorry, did My Husband and Myself upset you?
No not upset at all as i said , i was just wondering  . Regarding the Universities ,i seem to recall the govt asking questions a couple of days ago about foreign interference on their policies or something along those lines . Then there's the " state " sponsored cyber attacks on some government departments . Not pointing the finger here i might add and nor did the government . Oddly enough we just announced a 270 billion boost to our defence capability over what we already spend . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/a...y/12408232. Hopefully that worked . Yes we seem to be having some problems at the moment and the people are slowly starting to catch on , well some are . Scomo is on it thankfully .
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#26
(07-27-2020, 12:15 PM)hutch622 Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 03:54 AM)guohua Wrote: @hutch622 
Quote:I would love to know what you perceive the situation in Australia to be .

Excellent, Thank You coming replying.
China has Flooded your Colleges and Universities with Chinese students.
What I understand from my old comrades still in the MSS is this.
China or I should say the CCP is Donating a Great Deal of Money into the Pockets of the Alumni.

Much like America's Universities and Colleges.

However the question of how Australia should manage its relationship with China has new urgency when when I heard about Beijing’s attempts to influence Australian politics and interfere with civil society debate. 
Is this True?
First came revelations about large political donations from ethnic Chinese linked to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that were being used to try to alter the China policy of major Australian political parties. I think this was last year.

One popular politician was put out of parliament after it was revealed that he pandered to Chinese language media on South China Sea policy and warned his CCP linked political patron about government surveillance. 
Then came questions about China’s growing influence in Australian Universities and about CCP linked efforts to co-opt Chinese language media and civic groups in the Chinese Australian Community. 

It all comes down to Money and Greed and Politicians are Power Crazy and Greedy! Do you agree?

China has the Money to Bribe these people, why?
For more the 25 years America has made China one of the Wealthiest Countries On Earth!
They are using their Wealth to Spy and Steal and Control.

Sorry, did My Husband and Myself upset you?
No not upset at all as i said , i was just wondering  . Regarding the Universities ,i seem to recall the govt asking questions a couple of days ago about foreign interference on their policies or something along those lines . Then there's the " state " sponsored cyber attacks on some government departments . Not pointing the finger here i might add and nor did the government . Oddly enough we just announced a 270 billion boost to our defence capability over what we already spend . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/a...y/12408232. Hopefully that worked . Yes we seem to be having some problems at the moment and the people are slowly starting to catch on , well some are . Scomo is on it thankfully .

Good on ya Hutch.  There are actually a lot of people on to it and  U tube videos regarding Chinese interests here.  I see a bit on 'Sky News."  The saying, "The horse has bolted"  rings true in some of the circumstances.  (99 year leases).  Money talks and I guess I'll say it here.  Next target will be Native Titles.

Nice to hear from you again.  Coincidentally I see your handle mentioned in 'shoutbox' this evening.

Kind regards,

Bally:)
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#27
(07-27-2020, 10:15 AM)F2d5thCav Wrote:
Quote:"Yields results" is an understatement

One of the things about communist societies that is poorly understood (if understood at all) in the West, is that, after the violence ends, how utterly corrupt those societies become.

There is -no- social equality.  There are ordinary folks, the paid agents of the surveillance state, the officials of that state, and the top ring of the elite.  Each group lives better than the other, and anyone who is foolish enough to speak up about the injustice of the structure is jailed or 'disappeared'.

Because of that, each group that doesn't have all of the benefits seeks to better their situation via shortcuts and 'unofficial solutions' [read: bribes and favors].  Over years, that behavior becomes so ingrained in the group mentality that it is almost impossible to shake even when the communists lose power.


The communist style of government more or less permanently damages societies.  The former Warsaw Pact countries still live under the shadow of these effects.  Russia and Ukraine are incredibly corrupt; whether they eventually get away from that mentality is an open question.

We think we have problems with corruption in the USA.  Yes, there is a problem with corruption in the USA ... but we haven't seen anything yet.  Communism, in any form, is not a place a country wants to go, because, once there, there is no way back.

Cheers

Quote:There are ordinary folks, the paid agents of the surveillance state, the officials of that state, and the top ring of the elite.  Each group lives better than the other, and anyone who is foolish enough to speak up about the injustice of the structure is jailed or 'disappeared'.

The ordinary folk are the majority, yet they are invisible. My family is very diverse. I don't see us as having any culture, outside of what I guess one would call, an American culture. When people are lumped into a culture tag that is attributed to anyone, strictly due to the color of a person's skin, it is racist and potentially deadly. It fertilizes prejudice, and encourages bigotry.

When people hear Black culture, they immediately think inner city ghettos, poverty, crime, guns and killing. Because that is the image the media fosters. Yet the people that live in those areas represent less than one percent of the people that identify as Black. When people hear Black culture, the don't think "The Huxtables". While all people that identify as Black don't live like the Huxtables or the Banks, they are closer to them than the inner city ghetto. You have far more Carlton Banks than thugs and gangstas, but they don't get as much air time and are invisible.

The chaos or supposed revolution that is being televised, does not benefit the majority. In fact in many places there are just as many Whites as Blacks involved in the rioting and destruction. The majority have homes, businesses, children, and aspirations that are just at much at risk. They don't get a pass because they are Black. The majority are actually the most vulnerable, because they are a perceived threat by both sides. Worse is that they have no voice. Neither side wants to hear what they have to say, and will put them down if they do speak up. Unfortunately some of them are being put down permanently. RIP has never brought anyone back.

I said when this insanity started, that all this crap, all of it, is a orchestrated. I have seen nothing that has changed my opinion, in fact I am more convinced then ever. The news and the media are distributors of confirmation bias. You can find information in almost any form you choose, to support whatever you already believe. I try to vet the information I get from the internet, and it is nearly impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff. They are ingenious at putting lipstick on a pig and dressing kings in nonexistent ermine. I try to keep myself focused on the reality that is around me. If the virtual world starts to bleed into my real world, then I will likely respond differently.

As far as the closing of jails, it has been done before. England sent them off to America and Australia. Cuba sent them to America. I am sure there are other countries that got their share at one time or another. I hear the Acrtic is available.
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#28
Sounds like some policy this guy would pass...

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#29
(07-27-2020, 12:15 PM)hutch622 Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 03:54 AM)guohua Wrote: @hutch622 
Quote:I would love to know what you perceive the situation in Australia to be .

Excellent, Thank You coming replying.
China has Flooded your Colleges and Universities with Chinese students.
What I understand from my old comrades still in the MSS is this.
China or I should say the CCP is Donating a Great Deal of Money into the Pockets of the Alumni.

Much like America's Universities and Colleges.

However the question of how Australia should manage its relationship with China has new urgency when when I heard about Beijing’s attempts to influence Australian politics and interfere with civil society debate. 
Is this True?
First came revelations about large political donations from ethnic Chinese linked to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that were being used to try to alter the China policy of major Australian political parties. I think this was last year.

One popular politician was put out of parliament after it was revealed that he pandered to Chinese language media on South China Sea policy and warned his CCP linked political patron about government surveillance. 
Then came questions about China’s growing influence in Australian Universities and about CCP linked efforts to co-opt Chinese language media and civic groups in the Chinese Australian Community. 

It all comes down to Money and Greed and Politicians are Power Crazy and Greedy! Do you agree?

China has the Money to Bribe these people, why?
For more the 25 years America has made China one of the Wealthiest Countries On Earth!
They are using their Wealth to Spy and Steal and Control.

Sorry, did My Husband and Myself upset you?
No not upset at all as i said , i was just wondering  . Regarding the Universities ,i seem to recall the govt asking questions a couple of days ago about foreign interference on their policies or something along those lines . Then there's the " state " sponsored cyber attacks on some government departments . Not pointing the finger here i might add and nor did the government . Oddly enough we just announced a 270 billion boost to our defence capability over what we already spend . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/a...y/12408232. Hopefully that worked . Yes we seem to be having some problems at the moment and the people are slowly starting to catch on , well some are . Scomo is on it thankfully .

I hope you get this work out.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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#30
(07-27-2020, 12:15 PM)hutch622 Wrote:
(07-27-2020, 03:54 AM)guohua Wrote: @hutch622 
Quote:I would love to know what you perceive the situation in Australia to be .

Excellent, Thank You coming replying.
China has Flooded your Colleges and Universities with Chinese students.
What I understand from my old comrades still in the MSS is this.
China or I should say the CCP is Donating a Great Deal of Money into the Pockets of the Alumni.

Much like America's Universities and Colleges.

However the question of how Australia should manage its relationship with China has new urgency when when I heard about Beijing’s attempts to influence Australian politics and interfere with civil society debate. 
Is this True?
First came revelations about large political donations from ethnic Chinese linked to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that were being used to try to alter the China policy of major Australian political parties. I think this was last year.

One popular politician was put out of parliament after it was revealed that he pandered to Chinese language media on South China Sea policy and warned his CCP linked political patron about government surveillance. 
Then came questions about China’s growing influence in Australian Universities and about CCP linked efforts to co-opt Chinese language media and civic groups in the Chinese Australian Community. 

It all comes down to Money and Greed and Politicians are Power Crazy and Greedy! Do you agree?

China has the Money to Bribe these people, why?
For more the 25 years America has made China one of the Wealthiest Countries On Earth!
They are using their Wealth to Spy and Steal and Control.

Sorry, did My Husband and Myself upset you?
No not upset at all as i said , i was just wondering  . Regarding the Universities ,i seem to recall the govt asking questions a couple of days ago about foreign interference on their policies or something along those lines . Then there's the " state " sponsored cyber attacks on some government departments . Not pointing the finger here i might add and nor did the government . Oddly enough we just announced a 270 billion boost to our defence capability over what we already spend . https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/a...y/12408232. Hopefully that worked . Yes we seem to be having some problems at the moment and the people are slowly starting to catch on , well some are . Scomo is on it thankfully .

@hutch622 
That is Great, I did find this video and I feel better for Australia after watching it.
I for one know how my old home country can be Evil and Demanding.


Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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