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The difference between a book and a statue
#61
From Twitter:


President Trump today at the White House .... “We are looking at long-term jail sentences for these vandals and these hoodlums and these anarchists, and agitators,” Trump said. “They’re bad people. They don’t love our country, and they’re not taking down our monuments.”
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#62
To me, personally, there are no differences between a historical statue and a historical book.

They are both there to remind us of our past, good or bad. The book tells the story, the statue is a reminder that it happened.

We do enjoy the good because we prevailed. But the bad is there to remind us of a lesson to be learned.

To remove statues because they are reminders of a bad event or situation or person is like burning the book that tells the story.

And often times, the way a statue or a book is perceived is based on ideology or personal opinion, due to one's culture or background.

Here is where it gets tricky: Where does one draw the line?
Once upon a time...formally known as SonoftheSun
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#63
[Image: rD4dWBhx2G5poLy66]
[Image: giambologna-rape.jpg]





None of this stuff has easy answers of course and opinions abound. I remember coming across this when I was in Florence. It's called "Rape of the Sabine Women". It's gorgeous in it's marble embodiment and artistic workmanship and repulsive in it's content. You stand and stare at it and are marveled at it's intricacy and simaltaneously repulsed by its depiction. But it's a good metaphor for me because as a woman, I look at this and see more than just an artistic expression by an Artist. I see the horror in her face, her fear and the terror of what awaits her. It's not just some piece of art in a Piazza in lovely Firenze. It's a woman being raped by men. I can only imagine what black people must see or envision when they look at these edifices in their Parks or on their Capitol steps. My experience with this piece in Florence at least allowed me an opportunity to experience some empathy for what Black Americans must feel when they see an Confederate General, sword drawn and astride a horse.
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#64
Eh, I reckon they've moved on from the Confederate statues and have started tearing down statues of saint, authors, and Union generals like Grant... and exhuming graves to desecrate from the Revolution and both sides of the War for Secession.

I'm not good with any of that, either, although it has no bearing on me. I happen to think desecration is desecration, but if your good with the destruction of Confederate statues, then you'll also have to be good with the above in order to be fair.

.
" I don't mind killin' a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight... or if there's money involved... or a woman... "

 - Jayne Cobb, Hero of Canton
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#65
(06-23-2020, 08:37 PM)Antisthenes Wrote: I have to wonder if a private citizen erected (no pun intended) a 15 foot stone phallus in a public Park with private funds, just how long it would be there before it was torn down. I choose to be empathetic to Black Americans and realize the only way these silly things are going away is to take matters into their own hands. It seems once destroyed, unlikely they'll be reinstated to their former position. Pragmatics and deep seeded frustration seems to be in play?

That would be an interesting experiment. I have no idea how it would pan out. Most all of the statues here are not on public land, they are on privately owned land. The town I grew up in had a "generic" Confederate statue (no particular commander or soldier, just a generic Confederate private standing guard and facing north) in the middle of town at the main intersection in the town - but it was on private land, planted there with private funds by the UDC in 1910 - when there were still a lot of Confederate soldiers left alive in their waning years. 

We don't have much in the way of public parks around here at all, and what few we have don't house statuary of any kind - that would defeat our purpose for having public parks. No one wants to play ball or fling a frisbee when there is a hulking chunk of marble in the way.

.
" I don't mind killin' a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight... or if there's money involved... or a woman... "

 - Jayne Cobb, Hero of Canton
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#66
(06-24-2020, 03:50 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 08:37 PM)Antisthenes Wrote: I have to wonder if a private citizen erected (no pun intended) a 15 foot stone phallus in a public Park with private funds, just how long it would be there before it was torn down. I choose to be empathetic to Black Americans and realize the only way these silly things are going away is to take matters into their own hands. It seems once destroyed, unlikely they'll be reinstated to their former position. Pragmatics and deep seeded frustration seems to be in play?

That would be an interesting experiment. I have no idea how it would pan out. Most all of the statues here are not on public land, they are on privately owned land. The town I grew up in had a "generic" Confederate statue (no particular commander or soldier, just a generic Confederate private standing guard and facing north) in the middle of town at the main intersection in the town - but it was on private land, planted there with private funds by the UDC in 1910 - when there were still a lot of Confederate soldiers left alive in their waning years. 

We don't have much in the way of public parks around here at all, and what few we have don't house statuary of any kind - that would defeat our purpose for having public parks. No one wants to play ball or fling a frisbee when there is a hulking chunk of marble in the way.

.

Perfect. Your property, your perrogative. At least that's my take on it
"The most useful piece of learning for the uses of life is to unlearn what is untrue"
Antisthenes-
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#67
(06-23-2020, 09:16 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 09:07 PM)Antisthenes Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 09:01 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 08:37 PM)Antisthenes Wrote: I have to wonder if a private citizen erected (no pun intended) a 15 foot stone phallus in a public Park with private funds, just how long it would be there before it was torn down.

You mean like this one?  I see a big phallus there, and children bowing to him.
As far as I know, this was planted in Arkansas and is still there. I might be wrong, but I never heard that it was moved. Or, maybe it was left some other place. I'm not up to date on this.

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3...%3DApi&f=1]




YIKES! That's all kinds of wrong! Apparently it was moved after sitting on a flatbed at the Capitol in Arkansas for "a few hours"   It's presently in an Art museum in Salem, MA.

Salem, MA?   tinyhuh   How appropriate!   tinysurprised
Who commissioned that thing? I bet there's an interesting money trail to follow, work of that quality isn't cheap.
I am WonderCow....hear me moo!
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#68
(06-24-2020, 09:43 AM)WonderCow Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 09:16 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 09:07 PM)Antisthenes Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 09:01 PM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:
(06-23-2020, 08:37 PM)Antisthenes Wrote: I have to wonder if a private citizen erected (no pun intended) a 15 foot stone phallus in a public Park with private funds, just how long it would be there before it was torn down.

You mean like this one?  I see a big phallus there, and children bowing to him.
As far as I know, this was planted in Arkansas and is still there. I might be wrong, but I never heard that it was moved. Or, maybe it was left some other place. I'm not up to date on this.

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3...%3DApi&f=1]




YIKES! That's all kinds of wrong! Apparently it was moved after sitting on a flatbed at the Capitol in Arkansas for "a few hours"   It's presently in an Art museum in Salem, MA.

Salem, MA?   tinyhuh   How appropriate!   tinysurprised
Who commissioned that thing? I bet there's an interesting money trail to follow, work of that quality isn't cheap.
George Soros or the Clintons are my first guess.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
[Image: attachment.php?aid=936]
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#69
Mine too!  tinybiggrin tinybiggrin tinybiggrin
I am WonderCow....hear me moo!
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