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What is Stigmergy?
#21
(12-26-2019, 02:14 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:
Quote:I will suggest that the "Trump as Hero" is part of the script.  He is as much a puppet as the rest on the literal world stage, an actor.  That part of the play is to create more divide, and to keep Us thinking the corporation (that selected Trump as CEO) will do anything.  It is distractions, as well.  As long as We think some Other is going to "save" Us, We do nothing.  He will never bring out any tech the directors of the play do not want out.


Trump is not part of the establishment, that's why "they" (the establishment) hate him so much. He is shedding light on the darkness and lies they have been telling us since Daddy Bush was in office. 
He is also creating the Space Force, and part of what the Space Force will do is bring out some of the hidden technology the "elite" have been using for decades and decades.
Watch 727Sky's video he posted recently. Lots of disclosure in there. They talk about the new tech that will come our way. He talks about the free energy, getting somewhere in 30 minutes that used to take 30 hours, traveling to the moon, and much more. If not for President Trump I don't think the U.S. would be pursuing this. 

Of course, I'm sure there is someone above Trump, but whoever it is seems to have a better vision for our planet and it's people than anyone since JFK. He is trying to save us from becoming ruled by China. We don't want that!

As you say, we may never get ALL the technology, but some is better than none. It's a step in the right direction for now.


Quote:Q, too, is part of the play.  Keeping Us beLIEving the Q faction will actually do something to "save" Us.  For years now "indictments" are just around the corner.

I've been following Q since they first came out. I've seen too many predictions come true to give up on them now. They have to have time to get it right and get all the best evidence on the swamp creatures they can so they can put them away for life, or even death.
This is a one shot deal, and if it takes waiting a bit longer, I will, and so will other Anons. It has to happen before the election, so I'm just going to enjoy my popcorn while watching the show.  If no arrests are made in 2020, then I might start asking questions about what's going on, but for now, Q has my trust.

You might have a good plan, but getting it off the ground worldwide is something I just don't see happening. Just look at what they are doing to President Trump, and he isn't taking away a fraction of what you would be taking from those in control.  So, I'll just say, Good Luck. I hope it all works out.

Oh, They have built the image of Him "not [being] part of the establishment," but given He is the CEO of the corporation, United States, and that no corporation is going to let Jo(e) Public choose Their CEO, He was selected by Them.  Any "predictions" were made by Ones who knew where the script was going...  So, yeah.  They will "come true."  If They have been at the "get[ting] all the best evidence on the swamp creatures" from well before the (s)election, and haven't done jack in all these years, holding on with expectation that "real soon now" They will seems...less than intellectually honest to Me.

I think the "hope and change" of this "space force" and the "free energy" is a diversion.  Perhaps it is because They have things in place that will make moot Their promises - like that WWIII Albert Pike wrote about (having accomplished the goals of the first two...).

As for My "plan" (blueprint), when enough of Us know We can create it, We will.  If everyOne just says, "Meh.  Good, but it will never happen," They're right.  If They help share awareness, We have a fighting chance.
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#22
(12-26-2019, 09:11 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(12-26-2019, 01:31 AM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: Psychopaths (primary) are not "deranged."  They are genetically incapable of feeling caring, compassion, love, or empathy for Others...  Secondary psychopaths (Those who learn to shut off those Human expressions) will emerge in a society run by primary psychopaths. 

I would argue that your description of Primary Psyopaths IS a "derangement" - a genetic malfunction.

I fall squarely into your "Secondary Psychopath" category. I learned long ago to turn off all emotional response to external stimuli because they cause you to hesitate, they get in the way of reaction. In some people, they entirely immobilize them, "freeze them up". They are not conducive to survival in a fast paced world of thought vs. emotion. They will make one "zig" when he or she ought to be "zagging". It is those same emotional responses that Primary Psychopaths use to prey on the populace by exciting emotional responses when logical thought is required.

I have no use for a "hive" - I just want to be left alone, and the hive won't do that. Without hive interference, I wold get along just fine. I can feed myself and take care of myself fine without them... and that just makes them all kinds of irrational when I mention that.

I do agree about the money, however. Money, in all it's forms whether paper, coin, bitcoin, precious metals like gold or silver, jewels, etc -ALL of it - has no intrinsic value. It only has the value that OTHER people put on it, and it makes no sense to me to allow other folks to lead one around by the nose like that. That's why I am not rich today. I could have been, but I'm not, because I do not put the same value on money that other folks do. It makes bosses crazy when I do have a job, because they cannot motivate me by promising more of a thing that I do not value to begin with.

Money only buys one "stuff", and none of us can take any of it with us - money or "stuff" - when we leave this existence. What good is it? Everything is transitory, fleeting, smoke in a windstorm.

.

Good thing I am totally against anything "hive."  People can choose to live as hermits or socialites, or anywhere in between.  But for People like Me, disabled and all, I need the offerings of Others.  I cannot grow food (even before I got bone spurs in My thumbs, I had a very black thumb, killing everything I tried to grow), nor have a place to do so.  I am sorry You have no caring, compassion, love, or empathy for Others.  I have never found these things to get in the way of good choices...  [shrug]

Money - in ANY form - including trade, barter, and work exchange along with what You have listed - creates poverty and privilege, promotes psychopaths to power, allows oppression, causes wage/debt slavery, and makes profiteering a "thing."  It goes way beyond just being there to obtain "fleeting things."
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#23
(12-26-2019, 05:00 PM)guohua Wrote:
(12-26-2019, 09:21 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(12-26-2019, 01:53 AM)guohua Wrote: My husband just said it's not easy to kill a Psychopath because, you have to pull the Trigger First.

Oh no you DIDN'T!

You just gave away the secret of my survival to old age!

Now I have to come up with another plan!

tinylaughing

OH DAMN!  tinywhat
I'm Sorry,,,,, spoketoomuch

Our suggestion,,, Just,  smallmachinegun 'em all.

My suggestion...  Just take Their tool to power over Others on a widespread basis away.
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#24
Quote:Oh, They have built the image of Him "not [being] part of the establishment," but given He is the CEO of the corporation, United States, and that no corporation is going to let Jo(e) Public choose Their CEO, He was selected by Them.

Of course he was. He, or the military (I forget who said it) have come out and told us that Trump was asked if he would run because he was the only billionaire who wasn't a part of the establishment. They (the bad guys) had nothing on him to blackmail him to do their bidding. That's why they hate him and want him out at any cost. He's throwing a wrench in the cogs of the plans they've been putting into place ever since JFK was killed.

I think they can tell the future because of the Looking Glass Project. Just my opinion.
Kerry Cassidy had a guy on her show who worked closely with it. Q has mentioned it a couple of times too.
#25
(12-26-2019, 10:53 PM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: Money - in ANY form - including trade, barter, and work exchange along with what You have listed - creates poverty and privilege, promotes psychopaths to power, allows oppression, causes wage/debt slavery, and makes profiteering a "thing."  It goes way beyond just being there to obtain "fleeting things."

No, money is just another thing, an inert, inanimate object. The LOVE of money - greed - is what causes all of those things. In order to change it, you'll have to change human nature and remove the greed motivation from everyone on Earth - including the "poor". Otherwise, those poor will be the next "psychopaths in charge".

Another powerful motivator, in addition to Greed, is Fear. Most powerful folks are powerful to begin with out of fear - fear that they will lose control of their own lives without the power to control other folks. Controlling husbands, controlling wives, and controlling people in general cling to that control out of fear for what their lives will be without absolute control over everyone else, just another face of insecurity. That's the same fear that motivates Socialists and manipulates them into needing control over everyone else.

May as well excise those emotions too while you're excising emotions from humanity... but will it still be humanity when you've accomplished that? Speaking as someone who intentionally suppresses emotion in himself, I'd have to think not.

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#26
(12-26-2019, 10:55 PM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: My suggestion...  Just take Their tool to power over Others on a widespread basis away.

My post above addresses this response as well.


.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#27
I would like to come back and remind you and people reading this, that as far as the arrests go, there have been many arrests so far.

Remember NXIVM?  All those perverts that got arrested?

And then we have Epstein. He was the keystone that held together their child trafficking operation across the world. God only knows what else they were doing with those kids. Taking him out of the equation caused the network to crumble; they lost their control over many that they had tapes to blackmail.

And, as soon as Trump was elected, if you were paying attention, all kinds of child trafficking rings and pedos started to be arrested. I see more on Twitter every day. I used to try to post all of them, but it got so hard to keep up with them all, I don't post them unless it's a major big bust.  I posted one just today.

So, to say there have been no big arrests yet is simply not true.  Still, what I'm waiting on is seeing Obummer and Killary being packed up and hauled off to GITMO, along with all their minions in the White House at the time they were in office.

I honestly believe that will happen in 2020, at least Killary. Obummer might be after 2020. It will take a lot of information dropping to get the public ready to accept that he is as evil as he is so riots don't break out in the streets, but it's already starting to be dropped into the public's consciousness now.
#28
(12-27-2019, 02:23 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(12-26-2019, 10:53 PM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: Money - in ANY form - including trade, barter, and work exchange along with what You have listed - creates poverty and privilege, promotes psychopaths to power, allows oppression, causes wage/debt slavery, and makes profiteering a "thing."  It goes way beyond just being there to obtain "fleeting things."

No, money is just another thing, an inert, inanimate object. The LOVE of money - greed - is what causes all of those things. In order to change it, you'll have to change human nature and remove the greed motivation from everyone on Earth - including the "poor". Otherwise, those poor will be the next "psychopaths in charge".

Another powerful motivator, in addition to Greed, is Fear. Most powerful folks are powerful to begin with out of fear - fear that they will lose control of their own lives without the power to control other folks. Controlling husbands, controlling wives, and controlling people in general cling to that control out of fear for what their lives will be without absolute control over everyone else, just another face of insecurity. That's the same fear that motivates Socialists and manipulates them into needing control over everyone else.

May as well excise those emotions too while you're excising emotions from humanity... but will it still be humanity when you've accomplished that? Speaking as someone who intentionally suppresses emotion in himself, I'd have to think not.

.

Yes, money is the soil in which the root of all evil (unEthical behavior choices) grows.  In order to change it the soil needs to be removed.  For the love of money is not loving money itself, but the power over Others money provides - and thus the reason it promotes psychopaths to power; They will do literally anything to get and keep that power.  And given money merely accounts for Our energy added into the system...all We need to remove the soil is free energy - which We have technology for, but They (the psychopaths in control) hide and suppress it.  They know that it threatens Their power structure all too well.

Fear is what They use against Us, to manipulate Us.

If money is removed, We all may live as richly as We each might choose.  Define "greed" under those conditions...

Who's "excising emotions from humanity?"  Surely not Me.  It is the caring, compassion, love, and empathy I count on blossoming when money is removed.
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#29
(12-27-2019, 02:38 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: I would like to come back and remind you and people reading this, that as far as the arrests go, there have been many arrests so far.

Remember NXIVM?  All those perverts that got arrested?

And then we have Epstein. He was the keystone that held together their child trafficking operation across the world. God only knows what else they were doing with those kids. Taking him out of the equation caused the network to crumble; they lost their control over many that they had tapes to blackmail.  

And, as soon as Trump was elected, if you were paying attention, all kinds of child trafficking rings and pedos started to be arrested. I see more on Twitter every day. I used to try to post all of them, but it got so hard to keep up with them all, I don't post them unless it's a major big bust.  I posted one just today.

So, to say there have been no big arrests yet is simply not true.  Still, what I'm waiting on is seeing Obummer and Killary being packed up and hauled off to GITMO, along with all their minions in the White House at the time they were in office.

I honestly believe that will happen in 2020, at least Killary. Obummer might be after 2020. It will take a lot of information dropping to get the public ready to accept that he is as evil as he is so riots don't break out in the streets, but it's already starting to be dropped into the public's consciousness now.

My question is...  How do We know those stories are real?  Have You visited the People "arrested" in jail?  Attended Their trials...or even hear of Their trials?  Might Epstein be backstage laughing it up with His buds at how easy it is to dupe Us?  And given the Clintons are heavily into child trafficking, don't You think it odd that, after campaigning with threats of "locking Her up," She (and Bill) are not even on the radar?

I honestly place extremely high probability that nothing much will change in the politics play, and that the perceptive eye will see that They're all evil, and all buds, and all pulling one over on the public.
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#30
(12-27-2019, 06:44 AM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: Yes, money is the soil in which the root of all evil (unEthical behavior choices) grows.  In order to change it the soil needs to be removed.  For the love of money is not loving money itself, but the power over Others money provides - and thus the reason it promotes psychopaths to power; They will do literally anything to get and keep that power.  And given money merely accounts for Our energy added into the system...all We need to remove the soil is free energy - which We have technology for, but They (the psychopaths in control) hide and suppress it.  They know that it threatens Their power structure all too well.

Removing money from the system will not change human nature. There was a time before money, and human nature was the same then, thousands of years ago, as it is now. There is always something that accounts for our energy - my very existence accounts for mine. Simply removing a "tool of oppression" will do nothing at all to remove the oppression itself - that comes from human nature, the same as murder does. Simply removing a weapon will not prevent murder, either. In that case, you either have to remove the murderer, OR their will to murder. Not such a simple task as simply removing money from society. Removing human will is a far more difficult task.


Quote:Fear is what They use against Us, to manipulate Us.

True enough. Removing the fear from the victims is the only answer, but that would be far more difficult than simply removing money, as it is a part of human nature, and removing human nature makes us something other than human, defeating the purpose for society as a whole.

Quote:If money is removed, We all may live as richly as We each might choose.  Define "greed" under those conditions...

Greed is the same under any conditions. It is the desire of one human to have more than another human. Jealousy is a component of it, and jealousy may be felt by anyone, king or pauper. Money is not a requirement.

Quote:Who's "excising emotions from humanity?"  Surely not Me.  It is the caring, compassion, love, and empathy I count on blossoming when money is removed.

Ah, but you cannot pick and choose which components to remove from human nature and still retain a human at the end of the process. In the real world, there is no such thing as throwing away the bad and keeping the good - whatever you do that to is not, at the end of the process, what it was at the beginning of it. Contrary to alchemical belief, gold cannot be transmuted from lead. A silk purse cannot be made from a sow's ear.

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#31
(12-27-2019, 10:48 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(12-27-2019, 06:44 AM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: Yes, money is the soil in which the root of all evil (unEthical behavior choices) grows.  In order to change it the soil needs to be removed.  For the love of money is not loving money itself, but the power over Others money provides - and thus the reason it promotes psychopaths to power; They will do literally anything to get and keep that power.  And given money merely accounts for Our energy added into the system...all We need to remove the soil is free energy - which We have technology for, but They (the psychopaths in control) hide and suppress it.  They know that it threatens Their power structure all too well.

Removing money from the system will not change human nature. There was a time before money, and human nature was the same then, thousands of years ago, as it is now. There is always something that accounts for our energy - my very existence accounts for mine. Simply removing a "tool of oppression" will do nothing at all to remove the oppression itself - that comes from human nature, the same as murder does. Simply removing a weapon will not prevent murder, either. In that case, you either have to remove the murderer, OR their will to murder. Not such a simple task as simply removing money from society. Removing human will is a far more difficult task.


Quote:Fear is what They use against Us, to manipulate Us.

True enough. Removing the fear from the victims is the only answer, but that would be far more difficult than simply removing money, as it is a part of human nature, and removing human nature makes us something other than human, defeating the purpose for society as a whole.

Quote:If money is removed, We all may live as richly as We each might choose.  Define "greed" under those conditions...

Greed is the same under any conditions. It is the desire of one human to have more than another human. Jealousy is a component of it, and jealousy may be felt by anyone, king or pauper. Money is not a requirement.

Quote:Who's "excising emotions from humanity?"  Surely not Me.  It is the caring, compassion, love, and empathy I count on blossoming when money is removed.

Ah, but you cannot pick and choose which components to remove from human nature and still retain a human at the end of the process. In the real world, there is no such thing as throwing away the bad and keeping the good - whatever you do that to is not, at the end of the process, what it was at the beginning of it. Contrary to alchemical belief, gold cannot be transmuted from lead. A silk purse cannot be made from a sow's ear.

.

There have been a few (and VERY few) societies that lived in abundance.  Everything They needed was there to be plucked from trees.  These People did not war.  They did not have greed.  They did not account for energy in any way.  They were peaceful, loving, caring and kind.  Then Their paradise was invaded and the systems forced upon Them.  Things degraded rapidly.  The reason that most of society accounted for energy had everything to do with scarcity.  But We are now post-scarcity, forced to retain the archaic practice of accounting for Our energy by the psychopaths who hide and suppress the key to a return to paradise:  free energy.

Humans are not what You have been convinced They are - through the insidious system run by psychopaths and through propaganda that tells Us manufactured things are "reality."  Most of Us want to help - as all the donations to the charities and scam "events" (like Sandy Hook, Orlando, Las Vegas, etc.) prove.  Most of Us care, or want to afford to care but are kept from it by the systems in place.  Human nature is to care.  The systems run by psychopaths have twisted Humanity unnaturally.

With very few exceptions...  Murders are motivated by money/power.  Yes, there are a statistically insignificant number that do not have that motive.  So...  Remove money and most murders have no motive.

I think You mean envy.  Jealousy is applied to interpersonal relationships - something I have no solution for.  But if You can have what the next One has, for the asking, where would envy come in?  Explain how that works.

I remove nothing from Human nature.  I remove motive to choose unEthical behavior.  I realize that You have a very sour view of Humanity, but I see how We are grossly beset with indoctrination, propaganda, lies, manipulation, and psychopathic systems that bring out the worst.
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#32
(12-28-2019, 05:55 AM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: There have been a few (and VERY few) societies that lived in abundance.  Everything They needed was there to be plucked from trees.  These People did not war.  They did not have greed.  They did not account for energy in any way.  They were peaceful, loving, caring and kind.  Then Their paradise was invaded and the systems forced upon Them.  Things degraded rapidly.  The reason that most of society accounted for energy had everything to do with scarcity.  But We are now post-scarcity, forced to retain the archaic practice of accounting for Our energy by the psychopaths who hide and suppress the key to a return to paradise:  free energy.

Humans are not what You have been convinced They are - through the insidious system run by psychopaths and through propaganda that tells Us manufactured things are "reality."  Most of Us want to help - as all the donations to the charities and scam "events" (like Sandy Hook, Orlando, Las Vegas, etc.) prove.  Most of Us care, or want to afford to care but are kept from it by the systems in place.  Human nature is to care.  The systems run by psychopaths have twisted Humanity unnaturally.

With very few exceptions...  Murders are motivated by money/power.  Yes, there are a statistically insignificant number that do not have that motive.  So...  Remove money and most murders have no motive.

I think You mean envy.  Jealousy is applied to interpersonal relationships - something I have no solution for.  But if You can have what the next One has, for the asking, where would envy come in?  Explain how that works.

I remove nothing from Human nature.  I remove motive to choose unEthical behavior.  I realize that You have a very sour view of Humanity, but I see how We are grossly beset with indoctrination, propaganda, lies, manipulation, and psychopathic systems that bring out the worst.


My views on human nature have been formed by observation, rather than what anyone has told me about people, psychopaths or no. The historical record, as well as archaeological research where no such record exists, has borne out those observations for extrapolation beyond the historical record, prior to the existence of monetary systems or "means to account for labor", all the way back to the point where the only means of accounting for one's labor was whether or not his or her belly was growling.

Good luck with your efforts, then - I've said about all I can say in the matter.

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#33
So far this has been an interesting post. Now I would like to state a fact, this fact is valid for everything we know about the Earth we live on and the universe it belongs to.
For some thing to live something must die.
Anyone who spends time in nature understands this, to live you have to be better that what is trying to kill you and be better than what you are trying to kill.
In your job place you have to "kill" your fellow workers in order to keep your job and survive.
Every cult and religion no matter what they say wants to "kill" the other cults and religions in order to survive, its how everything works. Humans did not invent this, its just how everything works.
Can this be changed ? I dont know. One thing I do know if you dont understand how something works and you try to change you will end up making it worse.
To survive one must belong to a group, the bigger and more powerful the group the better the chance of surviving and moving forward. 
AS wants his group to be the biggest and best, to "kill" the other groups, to make the world better, but is it possible to change the very building block of everything, For some thing to live something must die 
#34
@"Wallfire" 
I have to agree with you, so far this has been A Very Interesting Thread with Great replies.

@"Ninurta" 
Yes, we both agree with your statement that Observation has taught us a lot about Human Behavior and most importantly, there are Psychopaths in this world who you would think are the nicest and kindest in the world Until YOU Have Something They Need or Want.

@"Amaterasu Solar"   
Sorry but I've never read about a Society that has lived in peace and had an abundance of everything they needed to survive, I don't know but maybe I read or understood the meaning incorrectly.
Because to my knowledge there has Always been someone that has the Need To Be Controlling.
Yes others that are stronger will come and take what they want or need and they may do this with War or being Deceitful and Corrupt.

@"Amaterasu Solar" Great Thread, Thank You.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
[Image: attachment.php?aid=936]
#35
(12-28-2019, 08:50 AM)Ninurta Wrote:
(12-28-2019, 05:55 AM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: There have been a few (and VERY few) societies that lived in abundance.  Everything They needed was there to be plucked from trees.  These People did not war.  They did not have greed.  They did not account for energy in any way.  They were peaceful, loving, caring and kind.  Then Their paradise was invaded and the systems forced upon Them.  Things degraded rapidly.  The reason that most of society accounted for energy had everything to do with scarcity.  But We are now post-scarcity, forced to retain the archaic practice of accounting for Our energy by the psychopaths who hide and suppress the key to a return to paradise:  free energy.

Humans are not what You have been convinced They are - through the insidious system run by psychopaths and through propaganda that tells Us manufactured things are "reality."  Most of Us want to help - as all the donations to the charities and scam "events" (like Sandy Hook, Orlando, Las Vegas, etc.) prove.  Most of Us care, or want to afford to care but are kept from it by the systems in place.  Human nature is to care.  The systems run by psychopaths have twisted Humanity unnaturally.

With very few exceptions...  Murders are motivated by money/power.  Yes, there are a statistically insignificant number that do not have that motive.  So...  Remove money and most murders have no motive.

I think You mean envy.  Jealousy is applied to interpersonal relationships - something I have no solution for.  But if You can have what the next One has, for the asking, where would envy come in?  Explain how that works.

I remove nothing from Human nature.  I remove motive to choose unEthical behavior.  I realize that You have a very sour view of Humanity, but I see how We are grossly beset with indoctrination, propaganda, lies, manipulation, and psychopathic systems that bring out the worst.


My views on human nature have been formed by observation, rather than what anyone has told me about people, psychopaths or no. The historical record, as well as archaeological research where no such record exists, has borne out those observations for extrapolation beyond the historical record, prior to the existence of monetary systems or "means to account for labor", all the way back to the point where the only means of accounting for one's labor was whether or not his or her belly was growling.

Good luck with your efforts, then - I've said about all I can say in the matter.

.

And My views come from both observation and study.  I too do not base My grasp of things on what Others have told Me.  Not sure what You mean by "the point where the only means of accounting for one's labor was whether or not his or her belly was growling..."  Getting One's own food is not accounting for One's energy.  Accounting only enters where there are two or more parties involved, with expectations attached.

But...  If that is all You want to contribute here, okay.  [shrug]
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#36
(12-28-2019, 10:50 AM)Wallfire Wrote: So far this has been an interesting post. Now I would like to state a fact, this fact is valid for everything we know about the Earth we live on and the universe it belongs to.
For some thing to live something must die.
Anyone who spends time in nature understands this, to live you have to be better that what is trying to kill you and be better than what you are trying to kill.
In your job place you have to "kill" your fellow workers in order to keep your job and survive.
Every cult and religion no matter what they say wants to "kill" the other cults and religions in order to survive, its how everything works. Humans did not invent this, its just how everything works.
Can this be changed ? I dont know. One thing I do know if you dont understand how something works and you try to change you will end up making it worse.
To survive one must belong to a group, the bigger and more powerful the group the better the chance of surviving and moving forward. 
AS wants his group to be the biggest and best, to "kill" the other groups, to make the world better, but is it possible to change the very building block of everything, For some thing to live something must die 

Plants live, gaining nutrients from the sun and the soil.  Somehow I can't convince Myself that something is dying to sustain that life... 

And 50+ years of study, deep investigation, and applying the wisdom of My father (see video below) has gained Me a rather respectable grasp of things.

"AS" wants Humanity to win, removing a dangerous and antiquated  tool that promotes psychopaths to power.  She wants to "kill" the ability to control Others on a widespread basis (perhaps You did not watch the original post to know I am of female configuration?).

"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#37
(12-28-2019, 05:17 PM)guohua Wrote: @"Amaterasu Solar"   
Sorry but I've never read about a Society that has lived in peace and had an abundance of everything they needed to survive, I don't know but maybe I read or understood the meaning incorrectly.
Because to my knowledge there has Always been someone that has the Need To Be Controlling.
Yes others that are stronger will come and take what they want or need and they may do this with War or being Deceitful and Corrupt.

@"Amaterasu Solar" Great Thread, Thank You.

They were discovered on islands, and rarely discussed anywhere.  It's been a decade and more since I ran across the information, but the conquerors came in and disrupted everything.

Most welcome.
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of war."





#38
(12-28-2019, 08:44 PM)Amaterasu Solar Wrote: Plants live, gaining nutrients from the sun and the soil.  Somehow I can't convince Myself that something is dying to sustain that life... 

I truly had intended to sit on the sidelines and watch, but some statements require clarification. I will however try to keep my comments brief.

Wallfire is correct - for anything to live, something must die. My time in the jungles gave me a visceral understanding of that as it relates to plants. Plants do not live in sterile soil or on barren rock - the dirt they grow out of is composed of other, formerly living and now dead things. For even plants to live, something else must have died. Laying on one's belly in that rotting mold and breathing the scent of all that death lets one know right down the the marrow where it comes from. All of a plant's nutrients come from that decay of formerly living things - the sunlight only provides the energy to convert them to a form useful to the plants.

Quote:"AS" wants Humanity to win, removing a dangerous and antiquated  tool that promotes psychopaths to power.  She wants to "kill" the ability to control Others on a widespread basis (perhaps You did not watch the original post to know I am of female configuration?).

That makes things a little bit clearer. You seem to want to remove the power of control of one over another as perhaps a primary objective. Eliminating "means of accounting for labor" won't accomplish that, however, due to the nature of control. You see, control requires compliance. Without the compliance of the victim of control, the would be perpetrator of it has none. The way to eliminate control is to educate victims in compliance rejection - specifically, rejection of compliance with control attempts. NO ONE can control you if you refuse to allow it, regardless of the tools or mechanisms they attempt to use to enforce it.

Tools, mechanisms, and methods of control are irrelevant to the control itself. Only compliance (or it's refusal) is relevant.

I eliminated my debt in 1992 or 93, and have not taken any new debt on in the interim, so I am not a "debt slave". I have no job, no wages, and so am not a "wage slave", either - yet the government, for some odd reason, thinks they have a "right" of some sort to exert control over me, to allow someone I have never met, and who lives 500 miles away from me, decide what I will and will not be allowed to do, even what I will and will not be allowed to own. I reject that control. While that contest is still ongoing, I imagine the next year or so will tell the tale of how that goes for them.

.
Diogenes was eating bread and lentils for supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king.

Said Aristippus, ‘If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils.’ Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’


#39
Hi AS its becoming very clear that you are trying to change a system without understanding how it works. Everything we know is based on to live something must die. In nature animals kill to survive, plants kill other plants to survive, plants help there own kind to survive. Its long been proven that plants can communicate with each other. Some plants kill insects to eat them, killer whales will chase a mother whale and her baby for 8 to 10 hours enjoying the fear the mother and baby feels, then kill the baby only to eat part of its tongue and leave the rest. They enjoyed the fear the other creatures felt.
Latest research is starting to show that plants can feel pain, think about that when you bite into a carrot or rip lettuce !!!!!
The list goes on and on. There is nothing that lives that does not have to kill to survive.
Humans have changed the rules a little in order to survive, we try not to kill each other physically, but we still kill. Think of football matches, ice hokey matches, think of the joy the followers feel when there team wins ("kills") the other team. Think of your job, think of the joy you feel when you get the pay rise ( you have "killed" the others ).
You are trying to change a basic rule without understanding what the rule is or how it works.
Your ideas cannot work, religion, cults, communism, capitalism,( capitalism was/is the most successful because its based on "killing" the others in order to survive, firms "kill" the other firms but stilled failed, stock markets crash) all failed because the basic building block of everything can not be changed. I did not make this system and I dont like it, but I understand its how it is
#40
I think Amaterasu Solar is a Star Seed who may have been sent here to spread the message of how things could be. Maybe this is how it works on her home planet, but she has arrived here a few centuries too early.

Still, planting the seed into the human consciousness of how we could live in harmony is the first step. We humans are only used to what we have always done, how it has always worked on this planet, so that is all we can comprehend as a way to survive.

Come back again in 100 years AS and maybe we, as a planet, will be more spiritually evolved to accept that a world you describe could be possible.


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