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Crows Form, Nurse, and Share Grudges Against People
#1
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I have always had respect for animals and find myself talking to them, even birds.
Never have I thought of them as 'dumb', just because they have a small head
 Their 'smarts' come in other various ways, that many people may not pick up on

Which is where this article comes into play, about a study that was done on crows


Quote:When it comes to intelligence, birds get no respect. For a long time, scientists assumed birds were stupid because their brains had significant differences from ours. But recent studies on bird brains and abilities are putting those fallacies in their place. Researchers have found sophisticated behavior in birds from finches and pigeons to Antarctic gulls. But there’s one group of birds that consistently amazes: crows and ravens.

Within the last 10 years we’ve learned that crows can make, store, and care for tools. They can count and exercise self-restraint. They can use bait to catch fish. They can certainly play. And, the authors of the Royal Proceedings study say, they can nurse some serious grudges.


'Grudges'.....crows carry grudges you ask???


Quote:Researchers at the University of Washington’s School of Forest Resources bought two masks that looked like human faces. A caveman-looking mask was designated the “dangerous” mask, while a Dick Cheney mask was “neutral.”

They then visited wild crows at five sites around Seattle. At each site, the person wearing the caveman mask would approach the crows, trapped a few, banded their legs, and set them free—an experience the birds did not enjoy. As soon as the researcher let them go, the birds began yelling at their captor with a harsh, aggressive cry called “scolding.”

The sounds of conflict attracted more birds, which joined in scolding and attacking the researcher, even though they’d never met. “The mob of two to 15 birds hounds us, sometimes diving from the sky to within a few meters or less. This pursuit lasts about 100 meters (328 feet) as we walk away,” crow expert John Marzluff told Discovery News.

The Dick Cheney mask did not elicit a response.


But, even when they went to another area they had not been in, the birds knew the caveman mask was bad, and reacted to it
Talk about how gossip spreads....LOL


Quote:Marzluff and his colleagues then traveled to other crow territories.

The sight of the caveman mask caused an immediate ruckus among these crows—even though none of them had ever been caught or banded. Crows up to a mile away from the original site had heard about this no-good caveman guy, and they knew he was trouble when he walked in.


Okay, fine...so crows carry grudges
But how long does it last?
Evidently a long time!


Quote:The grudge didn’t wear off, either.

Marzluff said return trips in the caveman mask provoked the same hostile response, even five years later.
 He told Discovery News, "Individual crows that are adults can live 15-40 years in the wild (most die when young, but those that make it to adulthood can live a long time) and they probably remember important associations they have formed for much of their lives."


WOW! What a memory I must say

Will have to admit, after reading this, it gives me a whole new perspective on crows (birds) in general.
I will keep talking to them....but can't help but wonder
Do you think they get offended when I call them "feather face"? Nah.....so far, none have chased me (yet)


Crow's Linky

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#2
Crows have also been known to "reward" people for being nice, as shown in the picture below


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Those were all "gifts" by crows,  given to an 8 yo girl

The girl who gets gifts from birds


Quote:Eight-year-old Gabi Mann sets a bead storage container on the dining room table, and clicks the lid open. This is her most precious collection.

"You may take a few close looks," she says, "but don't touch." It's a warning she's most likely practised on her younger brother. She laughs after saying it though. She is happy for the audience.

Inside the box are rows of small objects in clear plastic bags. One label reads: "Black table by feeder. 2:30 p.m. 09 Nov 2014." Inside is a broken light bulb. Another bag contains small pieces of brown glass worn smooth by the sea. "Beer coloured glass," as Gabi describes it.

Each item is individually wrapped and categorised. Gabi pulls a black zip out of a labelled bag and holds it up. "We keep it in as good condition as we can," she says, before explaining this object is one of her favourites.

There's a miniature silver ball, a black button, a blue paper clip, a yellow bead, a faded black piece of foam, a blue Lego piece, and the list goes on. Many of them are scuffed and dirty. It is an odd assortment of objects for a little girl to treasure, but to Gabi these things are more valuable than gold.


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Quote:Gabi's relationship with the neighbourhood crows began accidentally in 2011. She was four years old, and prone to dropping food. She'd get out of the car, and a chicken nugget would tumble off her lap. A crow would rush in to recover it. Soon, the crows were watching for her, hoping for another bite.

As she got older, she rewarded their attention, by sharing her packed lunch on the way to the bus stop. Her brother joined in. Soon, crows were lining up in the afternoon to greet Gabi's bus, hoping for another feeding session.


So basically, they work on a reward system, like most other animals.
But not always will they bring back a prize


Quote:Marzluff, and his colleague Mark Miller, did a study of crows and the people who feed them. They found that crows and people form a very personal relationship. "There's definitely a two-way communication going on there," Marzluff says. "They understand each other's signals."

The birds communicate by how they fly, how close they walk, and where they sit. The human learns their language and the crows learn their feeder's patterns and posture. They start to know and trust each other. Sometimes a crow leaves a gift.

But crow gifts are not guaranteed. "I can't say they always will (give presents)," Marzluff admits, having never received any gifts personally, "but I have seen an awful lot of things crows have brought people."

Not all crows deliver shiny objects either. Sometimes they give the kind of presents "they would give to their mate", says Marzluff. "Courtship feeding, for example. So some people, their presents are dead baby birds that the crow brings in."

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#3
Yes, crows are VERY smart birds. 









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#4
Alright, might as well throw Ravens in here too while we are at it


A study led by researchers at Lund University in Sweden shows that ravens are as clever as chimpanzees, despite having much smaller brains, indicating that rather than the size of the brain, the neuronal density and the structure of the birds’ brains play an important role in terms of their intelligence.


Ravens Are Just as Smart as Chimps


Quote:Avian admirers rejoice: ‘bird brain’ is no longer a scientifically valid insult–at least where ravens are concerned. A study by scientists at Lund University in Sweden has found that corvid birds are as clever as chimpanzees when challenged to perform rational problem solving tasks, proving that brain size is indeed not everything.

So how exactly does one measure intelligence when it comes to birds? For this particular study, scientists looked at the ability of ravens (and other birds) to override “animal” motor impulses and instead act rationally and efficiently. To do this, they replicated the well-established Cylinder Test.






Quote:In the Cylinder Test, a piece of food is placed within a transparent tube that has openings at either side. If the animal is following natural, non-rational impulses, it will head straight for the food, whacking its nose/beak/mouth onto the tube. If the animal is thinking rationally, it’ll head for one of the open sides of the tube and extract its tasty morsel.

In 2014, scientists at Duke University conducted a large-scale study of 36 different animal species, mainly primates and apes, using the Cylinder Test to measure inhibitory control. What Lund University did was then conduct the same tests but with a number of different birds.

In 100 percent of cases, ravens exhibited inhibitory control and intelligently, successfully extracted food from the tube–jackdaws and New Caledonian crows had about a 97 percent success rate. And by this measure, ravens are are clever as chimps and bonobos. So what does this mean?

According to Can Kabadayi, a doctoral student in Cognitive Science who conducted the study:


[Image: 1YP6fJ2.png]


And that leaves a lot more to explore. Kabadayi continues:


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#5
Well, Ravens do belong in the crow family; they're just a bit bigger in size.
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#6
(05-20-2016, 04:40 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: Well, Ravens do belong in the crow family; they're just a bit bigger in size.


True that....just keeping the 'smarts' in the family, eh?

:hugs:

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#7
Aww I love animals! Birds are so underrated they are amazing and have apparently been around even longer than us, they are far from dumb I agree.

But wow! Crows have always freaked me out until right now when i read in this thread..

Why do they freak me out? Well, when I was pregnant with my first child I had a crow that would stalk me everyday for a few weeks, I couldn't look out the window without it being there, and I can still remember his little face, he looked angry! Haha.. Anyway I would be hanging out my washing and he would sit at the fence staring at me and I would be like what do you want! I have always associated crows eith dark stuff and death so the fact he was there and I was heavilly pregnant was not settling at all.. One day I was out and it come charging down through the air at me to land on my stomach, I freaked out at it as it was happening and it never happened again. He must have been mad at me for not being nice and always asking what he wanted in a mean way.. But it was just so creepy to me!

I talk to all animals though, birds are no exception.. And plants, I swear it helps my gardens grow and stay healthy. Gentle touch too. They are conscious..

Alrighty sounding a little nuts now i am.. Haha
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#8
(05-20-2016, 04:43 AM)perfectinsanity Wrote: Aww I love animals! Birds are so underrated they are amazing and have apparently been around even longer than us, they are far from dumb I agree.

But wow! Crows have always freaked me out until right now when i read in this thread..

Why do they freak me out? Well, when I was pregnant with my first child I had a crow that would stalk me everyday for a few weeks, I couldn't look out the window without it being there, and I can still remember his little face, he looked angry! Haha.. Anyway I would be hanging out my washing and he would sit at the fence staring at me and I would be like what do you want! I have always associated crows eith dark stuff and death so the fact he was there and I was heavilly pregnant was not settling at all.. One day I was out and it come charging down through the air at me to land on my stomach, I freaked out at it as it was happening and it never happened again. He must have been mad at me for not being nice and always asking what he wanted in a mean way.. But it was just so creepy to me!

I talk to all animals though, birds are no exception.. And plants, I swear it helps my gardens grow and stay healthy. Gentle touch too. They are conscious..

Alrighty sounding a little nuts now i am.. Haha


No, actually there have been scientific studies that show talking to plants helps them. They pick up on positive energy, or negative energy, just like any other living things.
A scientist also showed how praying over water and food can kill the impurities. Amazing stuff!!

The crow that stayed near you sounds like it could have been your animal totem. It was definitely following you for a reason. Maybe it was a sign from someone who had crossed. Lots of reasons why it acted that way. Question is, which one?
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#9
I always talk to animals, even bees...LOL

We work outdoors and when a bee flies in my face, I gently shoo him away all the while saying, Please go on Mr.Bee
Silly I know, but hey he leaves me alone!


Quote:perfectinsanity said:

Why do they freak me out? Well, when I was pregnant with my first child I had a crow that would stalk me everyday for a few weeks, I couldn't look out the window without it being there, and I can still remember his little face, he looked angry! Haha.. Anyway I would be hanging out my washing and he would sit at the fence staring at me and I would be like what do you want! I have always associated crows eith dark stuff and death so the fact he was there and I was heavilly pregnant was not settling at all.. One day I was out and it come charging down through the air at me to land on my stomach, I freaked out at it as it was happening and it never happened again. He must have been mad at me for not being nice and always asking what he wanted in a mean way.. But it was just so creepy to me!


I bet that did worry you about the crow while you were pregnant.
I too used to associate black birds with bad omens and stuff. Guess we can thank Hollywood for that.
But anymore, they no longer bother me in that way

I do love to mimic them however...sometimes they'll squawk back looking at me like WTH???
My husband gets amused when I (we) do that

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#10
Some animals are far more intelligent than we give them credit for. Loved this!!!!!

:biggrin:
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#11
Great thread.  I love birds.
And good to know I'm not the only one that talks to animals, wild or otherwise!
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#12
Ooh very to see this thread made it here! 

Senona - I Love mimicking animals! They look so confused and like WTF hahah, I do it to my cat, doesn't work so much with my dogs they know im just being a tard and go sit down and look at me like oh not this again lmao. But the cat, just like with YT videos of cats meowing I play for a laugh, he looks around and at me and then just looks majorly confused, or he sometimes will lick my hand when Im doing it, he is obsessed with licking my hands, I looked it up and apparently it means they are marking you as theirs, that sounds about right, my cat loves me. 

MW- you could be right there and I had never actually thought of it that way, the situation just majorly creeped me out, but I was young and If I had the knowledge I do now I probably wouldn't have been so ignorant to the poor thing. One things for sure, after I ignored its wants for attention, it probably definitely is holding a grudge now lol.

Where I live now it's turning in to a concrete jungle they are chopping all the trees for houses and we don't get many birds, which is upsetting, I find it really relaxing hearing them in the morning and evening singing and making a racket of noise.
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#13
I don't believe intelligence entirely resides within, or is solely contained by, a brain. I know, I know, brain scientists (I was once married to one) think that it's all electrical signals along neurons, but I personally don't think so. I think the brain may be an organ that receives "mind" and transmits it to the body, but not that it contains the mind in some sort of closed system. Therefore, physical size of a brain would not have any great bearing on intelligence per se.

Crows can be taught to speak human, just like Myna Birds and parrots. There is an old wives tale that their tongues must be split first, but that's bunk. They can be taught with all of their facilities intact. There was one in West Virginia that used to go along picking in tire tracks on dirt roads who would randomly yell "play ball!" from hanging out with kids - but he hung out with adults, too. Once he was eating out of the dog's dish, to which the dog took exception, and rushed the crow, snapping at it. The crow retreated of course ('cause they ain't stupid!), lit on a fence post, and commenced to cursing the dog in terms that would make a sailor blush - in plain English.

More than that, crows have a language of their own. Call it "crowish" I guess. They have different terms for various dangers - one call for a hawk, another for a man of foot, and yet another for a man on foot who is carrying a gun... and they know and communicate the difference in the degree and type of danger each poses. I've used that to advantage myself - crows make excellent lookouts and sentries, if you know how to listen to them.

There is a lot more "intelligence" and communication amongst the denizens of the woods than most humans realize - probably rejecting the idea because of their preconceived notions that they are the pinnacles of evolution... a self-appointed position based upon an imaginary concept. Humans seem to have been taught by society to be legends in their own minds, and the net result of that is that many or most have lost the ability to tap in to the over-mind present all around them, choosing instead to believe it does not exist, because that would assail their self-important position at the supposed pinnacle of creation.

Crows haven't lost that.
“There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter.” ― Ernest Hemingway
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#14
(05-28-2016, 04:03 AM)Ninurta Wrote: I don't believe intelligence entirely resides within, or is solely contained by, a brain. I know, I know, brain scientists (I was once married to one) think that it's all electrical signals along neurons, but I personally don't think so. I think the brain may be an organ that receives "mind" and transmits it to the body, but not that it contains the mind in some sort of closed system. Therefore, physical size of a brain would not have any great bearing on intelligence per se.

Crows can be taught to speak human, just like Myna Birds and parrots. There is an old wives tale that their tongues must be split first, but that's bunk. They can be taught with all of their facilities intact. There was one in West Virginia that used to go along picking in tire tracks on dirt roads who would randomly yell "play ball!" from hanging out with kids - but he hung out with adults, too. Once he was eating out of the dog's dish, to which the dog took exception, and rushed the crow, snapping at it. The crow retreated of course ('cause they ain't stupid!), lit on a fence post, and commenced to cursing the dog in terms that would make a sailor blush - in plain English.

More than that, crows have a language of their own. Call it "crowish" I guess. They have different terms for various dangers - one call for a hawk, another for a man of foot, and yet another for a man on foot who is carrying a gun... and they know and communicate the difference in the degree and type of danger each poses. I've used that to advantage myself - crows make excellent lookouts and sentries, if you know how to listen to them.

There is a lot more "intelligence" and communication amongst the denizens of the woods than most humans realize - probably rejecting the idea because of their preconceived notions that they are the pinnacles of evolution... a self-appointed position based upon an imaginary concept. Humans seem to have been taught by society to be legends in their own minds, and the net result of that is that many or most have lost the ability to tap in to the over-mind present all around them, choosing instead to believe it does not exist, because that would assail their self-important position at the supposed pinnacle of creation.

Crows haven't lost that.


What a fascinating post, thankyou for that knowledge. :) 

As Humans, we tend to think we are the smartest of them all, but really we are not, take wars for example.. We might have technology but technically that doesn't make us smart, more money goes on technology for negative purposes than good in this world. 

I read recently about how plants communicate with eachother that was an amazing article if anyone is interested you can find it here - Plants are smarter than you think
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#15
I thought I had already posted this one of the magpies before, but guess not.

Unlike the original, this one has voices added to it, which only adds to the silliness of the birds playing IMO.

A funny but short video sure to put a smile on your face!! minusculebiggrin

 


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#16
Heh .... Figured that out when found that crows didnt like evil-ex #3 .....  theyd attack with a vengeance when they saw evil-ex #3 out .... even crows in other parts of town went after evil-ex #3 ......  

Smart birds .... now will set out food for them if see them in area .....
Better to reign in hell ....
  than serve in heaven .....



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#17
(08-16-2016, 06:30 AM)Daitengu Wrote: Heh .... Figured that out when found that crows didnt like evil-ex #3 .....  theyd attack with a vengeance when they saw evil-ex #3 out .... even crows in other parts of town went after evil-ex #3 ......  

Smart birds .... now will set out food for them if see them in area .....

If Only They'd Attack Hillary, I'd Feed Them!
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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