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A VIETNAM VET KILLED AN INTRUDER WHO TRIED TO STRANGLE HIS GRANDSON, THEN POLICE SHO
#1
All I can say is            WTF  WTF WTF      are things so bad with the police over there

Quote:
  • A war veteran shot a naked intruder who tried to strangle and drown his grandson in the bathtub
  • 911 calls described the veteran and his stepson as white men and the naked intruder as a black man
  • Police arrived on the scene and shot the veteran when they found him armed in his own home

Colorado police shot and killed a decorated Vietnam War veteran in his home after he killed a naked intruder who tried to strangle his grandson.
Richard Black, 73, awoke Monday to find that a naked intruder had broken through his door and was trying to strangle his 11-year-old grandson. Black and his stepson attempted to wrest the man off of the boy but, after failing to separate them, Black retrieved his 9mm handgun and shot the man twice in the chest. Aurora police, responding to several 911 calls, then arrived on the scene and reportedly shot and killed Black in his own home. (RELATED: Bodycam Footage Of LAPD Hostage Shooting Released)
“Mr. Black did everything right. His actions saved his grandson’s life. He should be in the mayor’s office getting a commendation for his heroism. Instead he’s in the morgue,” said attorney Siddhartha H. Rathod, according to The Associated Press.
Black’s wife, Jeanette, had called the police during the altercation and described the intruder to authorities as a black man and her husband and son as white men, so as to avoid confusion.

Police described the incident from their perspective and said that officers responded to a 911 call saying that an intruder was breaking into the house. They arrived to a “very chaotic and violent scene” and upon entering the house “encountered an armed male.” They shot first and asked questions later, determining afterward that the armed male was the homeowner.
Police subsequently found the grandson in the bathroom with severe injuries along with the body of the intruder. The boy is expected to make a full recovery.
Rathod said the intruder, who has not yet been identified, was partying at another house before he ran across a five lane road, entered Black’s house, attempted to choke the grandson and then carried the boy into the bathroom where he tried to drown him in the bathtub. Black and his stepson wrestled with the man, broke a vase over his head and even jabbed his eyes, but nothing fazed him. That’s when Black shot him.
Police Chief Nick Metz expressed frustration over not being able to release more details concerning the incident, including 911 calls and body camera footage, but also gave his condolences to the Black family.

“This has been a very tragic situation and a very heartbreaking situation for everyone involved, and our hearts go out to the Black family,” Metz said.
Neighbors of the Blacks said that crime is a major problem in the neighborhood, with shootings, drug related incidents and robberies happening frequently. Many of them applauded Black’s swift action, saying they would do the same to defend their own families.
Mike Montgomery, a retired Marine and neighbor of the Blacks, said that owning a gun in the neighborhood was a necessity and that he too believed that Black had done the right thing.
“He was put in a bad situation, a situation he shouldn’t have been put into. Nobody should,” Montgomery said.
Police are conducting an investigation into the killing of Black. The officer who shot him has been placed on administrative leave with pay.
Black was a graduate of The Citadel. He served in the Vietnam War as a lieutenant in the Army and earned a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. He later worked as an agent for the Internal Revenue Service and a public accountant in Colorado. He is survived by a wife as well as three children and several grandchildren who frequently visited.
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#2
Quote:Black was a graduate of The Citadel. He served in the Vietnam War as a lieutenant in the Army and earned a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart. He later worked as an agent for the Internal Revenue Service and a public accountant in Colorado.


Was a tragic loss.   tinycrying  

Sounds like the dispatcher didn't relay all the details to the officers, else they would know the intruder wasn't white. 
Terrible breakdown in communication.

I'd say when all is said and done, the Black family will own a part of CO, as they should. Totally uncalled for!

May Mr. Black rest in peace, and may his family find strength to make it through this tragic incident.



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#3
It's generally agreed upon at my workplace that I am an asshole. As a matter of fact, I was told just today that I am without a doubt an asshole, but the nicest asshole the speaker has ever met - because I don't care what I say or who hears it, but I'm not mean about it... I simply call it like I see it and let the listeners sort it out for themselves. If they can't handle that, that ain't MY problem.

With that said, here is my take on this situation: this shooter was likely a rookie. Rookies tend to panic and act in favor of self-preservation over analysis. What happens is that departments, on orders of a couple of leftist presidents (cough couch Clinton, cough cough Obama... hack, cough, gag, arrrrgh!), want to flood the streets with officers, and so they do - to the point that they send out untested and untried officers who are utterly unprepared for life in the real world. Whereas a seasoned officer, who knows that BANG may leave someone permanently dead and that there are no do-overs, will loudly and forcefully (in an adrenaline induced haze - we've all been there, right?) insist that the person in question drop their gun, the rookie will just drop the person without any questions or orders.

I've run into that before - wholly unprepared people thrown to the wolves and expected to hit the ground running. It rarely ends well. Usually, the person in question flounders, chokes, and falls by the wayside and is never ever again suited for the job at hand. They are no less casualties that the ones who get shot, and it is the fault of their leaders who throw them out unprepared. They need instead to couple these wet-behind-the-ears folk with seasoned officers who can handle the situation better... but there aren't enough of those around to fulfill presidential edicts.

So, in my opinion, it's mostly the fault of the department for putting a green kid on the street without sufficient training or supervision. Mostly, but not entirely. BUT - the victim himself bears some of the blame. Who in the hell greets armed "good guys" with a gun in his hand? Why would a combat vet do that knowing what bullets do to the human body? The only sane thing to do is disarm yourself when they are at the door so they don't feel threatened.

A couple of real world examples from personal experience may illustrate the point. Several years ago, a miscreant dumbass was trying to get into my house at about 2 AM. I armed myself and called 911. The conversation went something like this:

Me: There is a dumbass trying to break into my kitchen door, and I'm gonna shoot the shit out of him if he gets in before your people arrive.

Dispatcher: Are you armed?

Me: Yes. How else would I shoot the shit out of the intruder?

Dispatcher: Is your weapon loaded?

Me: Yes. What good would it do me if it wasn't?

So the dispatcher puts the call out, and notifies the officers there is an armed citizen prepared to shoot the shit out of an intruder, then continues to hold me on the phone. As it happened, a lady deputy that was a neighbor of mine - let's just call her "Tina"  - got the call while she and her partner were eating their lunch at a diner 10 miles away. She looked at her partner and said "that's my neighbor - we better get there quick or he'll leave a body on the doorstep". They got to my house in 5 minutes - for the mathematically challenged that's an average of 120 miles an hour. Meanwhile, my wife at the time is pacing around wringing her hands asking if I was really gonna shoot the intruder, to which I could only reply "See the gun? Damn straight I am" which could have been a problem for her, seeing as how we both knew who it was, and so did Tina... but that's another story.

Anyhow, when I heard the siren, the dispatcher told me "they're en-route" and I replied "Nope they're here - I hear the siren. There's a situation at hand I gotta handle - bye." The dispatcher says "Wai - " before she heard the click of the disconnection. I IMMEDIATELY dropped the magazine out of my weapon and jacked the round out of the chamber, then laid the gun on top of a washing machine far from the door, since the armed cops were there and I didn't need it any more. The point is, I was no longer armed, no gun in hand. I watched through the window as Tina and her partner cleared the premises - the intruder hauled ass away when he heard the sirens. When that was done, Tina walked up to the kitchen door, rapped on it with her MagLite, AND STEPPED BACK FROM THE DOOR. I went to the door and opened it with my hands in full view so that she KNEW I was unarmed, and asked her what in the hell she was doing standing way back there... to which she just replied "I know how you are, and it's better if we are ALL safe".

Tina found the pry bar the intruder tried to pry the bathroom window and then the kitchen door with, laying under my car where he had thrown it, but he was long gone, fled into the woods... and we ALL lived through that night.

End. Of. (Side note: Tina had a bitchin' car, and she used to get out in the yard and wash it braless in a (wet by the end) tank top and some really, REALLY short shorts... and I never, EVER, laid a hand on her because I didn't want that hand to get broken... but the chick was HOT!... and a really good neighbor who watched out for me when I was unable to watch out for myself),

The moral of the story is: don't meet armed folk at your door with a weapon in hand unless you are entirely prepared to end them - and generally, you should not end folk who are coming to the rescue. Know the difference. Another moral of this story is that I should have kept the dispatcher on the phone instead of hanging up, so I could inform her I was disarmed and could she please relay that to the officers? Ain't none of us perfect.

Story 2: Some of you are familiar with my encounter with the SWAT Team who had the address wrong, so I won't re-tell the whole story, BUT in that case I had to bark out the orders to THEM while covering my own ass. Although I met them with gun in hand, not knowing they were cops, as soon as I heard them shouting "GUN! GUN!" and saw that acre of badges, I immediately ordered them to "HOLD YER GODDAMNED HORSES!" while I ducked back into the house and disarmed... and we all lived through THAT incident, too. There was an uncomfortably tense moment where I had my hands raised to demonstrate I was no longer armed, there were about a dozen guns and laser lights on me, and Grace ran out screaming that "this is OUR goddamned house!" further exacerbating the situation... but we all managed to survive it, because WE, neither myself nor Grace, were armed.

Moral of the story: When armed "good guys" are at your door and arrayed in your yard, and YOU have done nothing wrong, THEY are the very last people you want to make nervous by slinging a gun around!

With that in mind, I cannot fathom why a combat vet would meet already nervous men in an armed condition, and expect to survive the encounter. He should have known how armed men react when they think they are about to be shot. He'd already been there, done that, and saw the carnage.

It's a sad story for sure, but could ultimately have been avoided by prudent action... on both sides.


.
" I don't mind killin' a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight... or if there's money involved... or a woman... "

 - Jayne Cobb, Hero of Canton
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#4
We may have to talk about what constitutes disabling an intruder and thwarting his negative intent,
against 'shooting the shit out of him'
It's just that it doesn't look good in the local paper.

tinywhat
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#5
(08-03-2018, 08:28 AM)BIAD Wrote: We may have to talk about what constitutes disabling an intruder and thwarting his negative intent,
against 'shooting the shit out of him'
It's just that it doesn't look good in the local paper.

tinywhat

I have no doubt in my mind that he would have been thoroughly disabled and his negative intent spectacularly thwarted...

... and since I knew who it was, I felt that he was handing me the solution to a problem on a silver platter. When he tried to break in to my house in the middle of the night, he might as well have wrapped a bow around himself before starting. I thought about not calling the constabulary at all until after the fact, but when it woke my wife (at the time) up, I reconsidered. Seeing him dropped in a puddle of his own bodily fluids might have damaged her delicate sensibilities.

The local sheriff already had a tape recording of a conversation that I feel confident would have explained everything and ruled it a righteous shoot. In private conversation, Tina also thought I should have shot first and called later - there would have been one less miscreant in the world for her to have to deal with, and being a cop she had to deal with plenty of them already.

As life turned out, I outlived him anyhow. There are sometimes drawbacks to hard living. He did live long enough for us to mend our fences and come to an understanding before his untimely demise, however, so there's that.

You are correct that it would have looked bad in the local paper, but the bad light wouldn't have been on me.

.
" I don't mind killin' a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight... or if there's money involved... or a woman... "

 - Jayne Cobb, Hero of Canton
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#6
(08-03-2018, 08:28 AM)BIAD Wrote: We may have to talk about what constitutes disabling an intruder and thwarting his negative intent,
against 'shooting the shit out of him'
It's just that it doesn't look good in the local paper.

tinywhat

Sorry @BIAD , my husband and I know of only one way of disabling a intruder (we don't have any carpets on our floors, easy cleanup our wall paint is washable) and by the way, we both could care less about what any newspaper wrote, we don't subscribe anyway.
Here in Phx, Az. you wouldn't see a lot of bad press over taking a bad guy of the World Census Count.
We have multiple weapons hidden throughout our home.

But I'm thinking you already knew that. tinybigeyes
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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#7
(08-05-2018, 06:03 AM)Ninurta Wrote: ....You are correct that it would have looked bad in the local paper, but the bad light wouldn't have been on me.

But Journalists are better than me and you, they're opinions are handed down from high and therefore
you should have sought their advice first.
tinyhuh
(I'm sorry, BIAD is dripping with sarcasm these days!)

We both know you're right and that your good sense gives me very little wiggle-room to use hopefully
-humorous sentences that involved a large blunderbuss strapped to a gate-post, woolly-socked hikers
being chased through the undergrowth and the obvious rights involving personal property.
tinywondering

That's the pisser that always gets me. A decision is made to trespass and no matter what the reason,
any human with the ability to formulate a plan, weigh the risks and contemplate how they'd personally
feel if such an invasive act was done to themselves, knows the possible repercussions.

It's just that more-and-more these days, we seem to have become weaker in both traditional moral stances
and universal respect.
minusculethumbsup
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#8
The 911 tapes nor the body cam video will not be released at this time as there is still an investigation going on.. OK you have a video of the cop shooting Mr. Black.. It should exonerate the cop or burn him.. What is there to investigate other than bureaucratic B.S. or cover-up ? Sorry that was my first thought.. Now the good news is the Chief during his press briefing gave a blow by blow description of what the officer's faced upon arrival. Mr. Black had a flash light in one hand and a gun in the other hand. He was told to drop the gun 5 times but did not comply for whatever reason (Mr. Black did have a hearing impediment which was found out later) This is a very sad occurrence that has critical events that had they gone a different way this would have been avoided.

go to the 21 minute mark to hear the description of the video and time line.




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#9
The police could of wounded or tasered him, but the police in the USA seem to always shoot to kill.
I believe the poor man was in a state of shock, and still in "defend the child" mode, perhaps he was unsure if it was the police or "friends" of the guy he shot come to finish the job.
I know police dont have an easy job, but they need to do better than this.
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#10
(08-07-2018, 03:43 PM)Wallfire Wrote: The police could of wounded or tasered him, but the police in the USA seem to always shoot to kill.
I believe the poor man was in a state of shock, and still in "defend the child" mode, perhaps he was unsure if it was the police or "friends" of the guy he shot come to finish the job.
I know police dont have an easy job, but they need to do better than this.

Many, many years ago, I used to train police in the state of Virginia, and so may have some insight to offer. This was in the days before tasers were available, so I have not much to offer on that front other than to say that even today, tasers are not issued to all officers.

Police in the US are trained to shoot "center of mass", because that is usually the biggest target presented in a tense and shaky situation, so they have the best chance of hitting it. Unfortunately, in humans the heart is found dead center of mass, and if the shot is true, it bodes ill for the one being shot. It's an unfortunate thing, but when you think your life is on the line, you don't worry if there will be any "do-overs" or not - you just stop the threat the best you can.

Few people are good enough shots under these tense situations to make a wounding shot - the targets are much smaller, and there are a lot more of them to have to disable. Shooting a man in the arm (unless you can manage to get BOTH shoulders before he can react, which is a feat indeed under pressure!) will not prevent him from shooting you right back, which could be a fatal mistake on your part.

Our qualification course was a modified FBI course, 50 rounds daylight, 50 rounds in the dark. We were allowed a few "warm up" rounds to get our minds right before qualifying. So one day I was running my warm-ups, and shooting the target in the head. It was one of those targets printed to look like a rough customer aiming a gun at you. So the Captain walks up behind me and says "what are you doing?". I replied "warming up, Captain". And he pulled me to the side and said "I already know you can make head shots, but doing it on Q targets is a bad, bad idea - one I ought to fail you for". So smart ass that I am, I said "But Captain - that dude has a gun pointed at me!" It didn't move him at all, so I dutifully moved to center of mass for the rest of the day.

As an aside, something I've never figured out is that I shot better on the dark part of the course than I did the light part. I'd regularly qualify at 94 - 96% day, and 95 - 98% night. It makes no sense, but so few things in life do. Also, every qualifying target was destroyed after the scores were recorded, because if a target survived and you had to shoot a perpetrator, it was guaranteed that the opposition lawyer would locate it and trot it into court to provide a visual of how you could shoot... so none of the targets survived. It was better for a jury to hear that you shot a "95%" score than it was for them to actually see a target with the center of it's chest a gaping hole.

Back when I was training police officers (this was the early to mid 1980's), every officer in Virginia had to go through two weeks of "in-service" training every year. One day during a break in the in-service training, I was shooting the shit with some of the officers going through it and asked one of them "if you had to shoot, would you shoot to wound, or shoot to kill?". He didn't even hesitate when he answered "I'm going home to my family every night without fail, and dead men tell no tales".

So it's the training PLUS a mindset that not everyone has, but those who do get to survive to a ripe old age.

In this case, I still think the department allowed a green officer onto the street without enough training, or without rigorous enough training, and it resulted in tragedy. I put those poor officers I trained through a living hell, but I like to think that it made them better, more level-headed under pressure officers, and that a lot more people survived on both sides of the badge because of what I did. I'll never really know if that was the case or not.

As an example of the sorts of things I did to them, I'll mention a "scenario" we ran, a routine traffic stop. 4 instructors loaded up in a van (not counting the driver), with fake guns. Since it was "routine", the cops stopping us (there were 5) expected everyone to just give up and play nice, but that's not what always happens in the real world. I noticed they were all bunched up at the back of the van (bad idea - no one covering from the sides, too many in front of the doors), so I waited for the latch to click as they were opening the door, at which time I kicked the doors wide open (which they were of course not expecting), and knocked 3 of them flat on their asses. I jumped out before the other two could recover from the shock, and "shot" 4 of them before anyone knew what was happening. The referee ruled 2 "dead", 2 "incapacitated", which left the one I didn't "shoot" to carry the day. He was a chubby little fellow, which in my estimate was also a bad idea. I threw the gun on the ground to confuse him ("do I secure the gun or go after the guy?"), vaulted a guard rail, and ran straight down a mountainside. He made the right move of chasing me down (the gun was, after all, laying on the ground harmless, and I was getting away). I led that poor fellow on a merry chase through all sorts of brush and briars, down hill and up, before I finally rolled under a fir tree and let him catch me. He was huffing and puffing like a freight train by then, and mentioned that he thought he might be able to stand losing a few pounds. I said "ya think?" as he was cuffing me to take me in. During the debrief, I told them that they made too easy a target all bunched up like that, and informed them of a better way to deploy which gave them better coverage, made them a less tempting target, and would have let me know in no uncertain terms that any funny business would get me perforated. They took the lesson to heart, and never, as far as I know, made that mistake again. They all survived their tours and are probably all retired now, and none of them ever had to shoot anyone - everyone wins.

If, as reported above, the vet had a flashlight, he had the advantage - he could not only momentarily blind the officer, but could also see the badge more clearly. We will never know why he chose not to drop his gun when the badge glinted in the flashlight beam.


.
" I don't mind killin' a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight... or if there's money involved... or a woman... "

 - Jayne Cobb, Hero of Canton
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