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Evidence that demands a verdict
#1
Many here do not believe in God ... no problem, we all have our belief/s, however, 
I find it interesting that 'those who deny the Supernatural' have no explanation concerning the origin of life and the Universe, only theory
Is there some evidence I'm missing that allows sciencism to 'rule God out' < atheism ....... 
at least agnosticism keeps an open mind with the door open

Anyhow ..... My conclusion is that ALL Life derives from a source of Intelligence  .... 
I believe that the recent findings in DNA prove this to be so
you can apply this intelligence to whom so ever you will .... but what it DOES rule out is that DNA just fell together from nothing ... 
if you will, non-intelligence to intelligence

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#2
(11-15-2017, 09:55 PM)dadmansabode Wrote: Anyhow ..... My conclusion is that ALL Life derives from a source of Intelligence  .... 
I believe that the recent findings in DNA prove this to be so
you can apply this intelligence to whom so ever you will .... but what it DOES rule out is
that DNA just fell together from nothing ...  
if you will, non-intelligence to intelligence


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I often peruse scientific information and news, it's a marvel at what we still need to learn and how our reality is formed.
It all makes sense. We're made up of atoms and this is our affinity with the universe.
But I also believe in God and an afterlife... I have a faith.
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"They watch from behind complacent smiles whilst polishing their cutlery. Yet, with egg between the prongs"
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#3
I forget where I heard someone say that the god of the old testament was a different god than in the new testament, but I think they may be correct.
The old testament god came across as mean and very controlling, so Jesus had to come and straighten out the masses with a new message... and show who the true God was/is.  God isn't a mean god, he's all about Love.

I believe the Anunnaki came from a dying planet and made the people of Earth believe they were gods because of their advanced technology.  It's said they manipulated our DNA to make us "in their image" so they could have slave workers to mine their gold. So, I suppose they are the ones who made man, but the Creator of All made them and everything else in the universe(s). That's the God I worship. 

The information on the gods from ancient times left their message on the Sumerian Tablets... millions of tablets! Below is a video that you might find interesting.



https://youtu.be/--aPOTiF6L0

Also, here is a very good web site: https://sites.google.com/site/wordsofenk...anslations
I won't go over my long reply in the other thread; I'll just point to my answer here:  Click here.   tinybiggrin
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#4
(11-16-2017, 12:33 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: I won't go over my long reply in the other thread; I'll just point to my answer here:  Click here.   tinybiggrin

yeah that was really really long ... glad you didn't place it here .... so tell me Wanderer ... 
is life matter alone ? or is there something else involved ?
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#5
(11-16-2017, 12:39 AM)dadmansabode Wrote:
(11-16-2017, 12:33 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: I won't go over my long reply in the other thread; I'll just point to my answer here:  Click here.   tinybiggrin

yeah that was really really long ... glad you didn't place it here .... so tell me Wanderer ... 
is life matter alone ? or is there something else involved ?

I edited/added more to my reply above.   smallgreennumberone
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#6
(11-16-2017, 12:54 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:
(11-16-2017, 12:39 AM)dadmansabode Wrote:
(11-16-2017, 12:33 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote: I won't go over my long reply in the other thread; I'll just point to my answer here:  Click here.   tinybiggrin

yeah that was really really long ... glad you didn't place it here .... so tell me Wanderer ... 
is life matter alone ? or is there something else involved ?

I edited/added more to my reply above.   smallgreennumberone




well, it's really off topic here ... you should contain it to the other thread ? ... I'd like to keep this about the evidence



is life matter alone ? or is there something else involved ?
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#7
No, life is NOT matter alone. We have a spirit. 

This may be off topic just a tad, but I'm going to share it because it took me almost 10 full minutes to track it down.

http://www.rogue-nation3.com/showthread.php?tid=396


And this:    

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#8
I agree with Mystic Wanderer.
There is something else involved, but in my mind, it's not All Seeing and All Knowing.
There is a Life Force in the Universe, but what part of a Star Created The First Life Force?

How old were the Beings (Race) that created Man and Woman here on Earth.

Believing in One God, No, I can't.
I was born and raised in a Country without God, My husband was Born into and Raise in a Pentecostal Church and Family.
He has his reasons for not believing and I have mine, (mostly my ancestor worship and what I've been told and shown).
Sorry, I'm Ranting.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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#9
Mystic Wanderer = life is NOT matter alone. We have a spirit.  

gouhua = There is something else involved, but in my mind, it's not All Seeing and All Knowing


Well, you're getting close, but an atheist would deny both of these

What I'm getting to is something even science can observe .... a atheist cannot deny

Oh, don't get me wrong, atheists deny this all the time, but their excuses are illegit 

come-on atheists < jump on board here

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Mystic Wanderer = Creator of All made them and everything else in the universe(s)


Indeed, Genesis 1:1 .. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. -- time / force / action / space / matter 

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#10
What I'm saying is,,, there's No One God or a God at all.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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#11
(11-16-2017, 05:46 AM)guohua Wrote: What I'm saying is,,, there's No One God or a God at all.

guohua Wrote: How old were the Beings (Race) that created Man and Woman here on Earth


but at least you're claiming we were 'created' .. not simply evolved from natural processes, no creator/s ... right ?
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#12
(11-16-2017, 06:03 AM)dadmansabode Wrote:
(11-16-2017, 05:46 AM)guohua Wrote: What I'm saying is,,, there's No One God or a God at all.

guohua Wrote: How old were the Beings (Race) that created Man and Woman here on Earth


but at least you're claiming we were 'created' .. not simply evolved from natural processes, no creator/s ... right ?

I and everyone I Know, believes we were created by an advanced race for what ever purpose.

That would leave out the Heaven and Hell concept most are taught.
Our Consciousness / Spirit / Soul  doesn't die with our body, but passes on to another Realm or Reincarnates or comes and goes and watches over Loved ones or Help When Asked.
That is our belief and it's not going to change.
Once A Rogue, Always A Rogue!
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#13
that's fine guohua ...... 
my argument is to the hard core atheist who claims that there is no creator period .... 
that intelligence came about via non-intelligence

............. nite all
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#14
(11-16-2017, 12:33 AM)Mystic Wanderer Wrote:   God isn't a mean god, he's all about Love.

I beg to differ. I think God is neither "mean" nor "all about Love"... nor is it a "he". I have a hard time comprehending a god that would allow itself to be so unidimensionally boxed in. I would say that God is a good deal more complex than that.

Take me as an example, a mere human. Even I am more complex than that, and I have no aspirations to godhood. I am neither "mean" nor "all about love". I'm situational. I love my family, but God help anyone who would harm them - they'll see a whole new side of me. Wouldn't an actual god be quite a bit more complex than little old me? And "he" implies a gender, which a pure being of spirit would not possess, having no need for it, as gender is only useful in procreation, which gods, in general, don't really engage in quite the same way organisms do.

Quote:I believe the Anunnaki came from a dying planet and made the people of Earth believe they were gods because of their advanced technology.  It's said they manipulated our DNA to make us "in their image" so they could have slave workers to mine their gold. So, I suppose they are the ones who made man, but the Creator of All made them and everything else in the universe(s). That's the God I worship. 

The information on the gods from ancient times left their message on the Sumerian Tablets... millions of tablets! Below is a video that you might find interesting.



https://youtu.be/--aPOTiF6L0

Also, here is a very good web site: https://sites.google.com/site/wordsofenk...anslations

Nope. Not even going to start on all the wrong present there. I'm aware of all the Sitchkinite BS rolling around on the internet. Just.... no.


.
“The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.”

-Aldous Huxley

-- Got mask? Just sayin'...




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#15
(11-16-2017, 06:11 AM)guohua Wrote: I and everyone I Know, believes we were created by an advanced race for what ever purpose.

Nah, Missus G - you know me, and I don't believe that. To say we were created by an advanced race" just kicks the can down the road, as the question then becomes "well then, who created the advanced race?" and on and on until we run out of advanced races to do any creating... then who or what created THEM, that first advanced race?

Eventually, you have to wrestle with that ultimate question, so I've just eliminated all the Annunaki nonsense in my own mind, and I know what I believe in the matter of creation. No aliens are necessary to account for it. As mortal, finite beings, aliens could no more have created me than I could create a living, breathing, flying thinking bird from mud.
“The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.”

-Aldous Huxley

-- Got mask? Just sayin'...




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#16
(11-16-2017, 06:16 AM)dadmansabode Wrote: that's fine guohua ...... 
my argument is to the hard core atheist who claims that there is no creator period .... 
that intelligence came about via non-intelligence

............. nite all

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but fighting Atheists is no more likely to succeed than fighting any other religion, which Atheism is just another one of. You're not going to convince an Atheist that his theology is wrong any more than he can convince you that yours is - it's ALL based on one kind of faith or another, and faith is not subject to the scrutiny of a debate. Faith transcends that.

Theism of any sort invokes one sort of magic to account for creation, and Atheism invokes another sort of magic to account for creation. Any time you make something from nothing, there is going to be a kind of magic involved. It's just that their faith, and their magic, is different from yours. Wars have been fought, and millions have been killed, to settle whose magic is the right magic... yet it has never been conclusively settled in favor of anyone - and it never will be.

God does not jump through hoops for tests any more than cosmic strings do. It's all a matter of faith, and faith lives in an individual's heart.


.
“The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.”

-Aldous Huxley

-- Got mask? Just sayin'...




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#17
Quote:atheism
noun
noun: atheism
A disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Atheism by definition is not a religion or even a "belief" system.
It is a lack of belief or disbelief in the existence of a God or gods (in the traditional "religious" sense).

Quote:Many here do not believe in God ... no problem, we all have our belief/s, however, 
I find it interesting that 'those who deny the Supernatural' have no explanation concerning the origin of life and the Universe, only theory
Is there some evidence I'm missing that allows sciencism to 'rule God out' < atheism ....... 
at least agnosticism keeps an open mind with the door open

Anyhow ..... My conclusion is that ALL Life derives from a source of Intelligence  .... 
I believe that the recent findings in DNA prove this to be so
you can apply this intelligence to whom so ever you will .... but what it DOES rule out is that DNA just fell together from nothing ... 
if you will, non-intelligence to intelligence

Atheism is not denying the supernatural. It is disbelieving the existence of (a) God.
Atheists (tend to) have a *Scientific Theory to explain the origin of life and the Universe.
(*Scientific Theory is a very different concept to ""just a theory".
It is defined as: a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation.
e.g. The scientific theory of evolution.)

Scientific Theory is not claimed to be fact.
It does not exclude any possibility. It is fluid. It reacts to the latest findings and experimental observations, and it definitely is not "only theory".
The BIG BANG (theory) for example is Scientifically Observable.
We can actually see the bodies moving apart in space in real time, and have been doing so for hundreds of years.
Plot the paths of these movements and you can trace them back to their origins. Together at one point in space & time.
Scientifically Observable.

BTW - Religious people don't have an "explanation" for the origin of life. Just a theory. (Not a Scientific Theory!)

Sciencism? Never heard of it. Is that even a word?

Did you just link to your own website as a source of "evidence"?

"All Life derives from a source of intelligence"?
OK, where did the source of intelligence originate?

PS - I don't think that anyone has ever said that "DNA just fell together from nothing". (By all accounts it took many millions of years?)

Using wordplay to undermine an opposing viewpoint does nothing but diminish your own argument.
If you really want to try and understand another persons views, then you cannot begin the conversation by putting words in their mouths.
A simple statement like: "I believe that recent findings in DNA research proves _ _ _ _ _ _ _ and here is a link to the evidence _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . I'd be interested to hear other views on this." would be a much more balanced, less provocative opening post than the one which was used, which made several (inaccurate) suppositions regarding atheism, atheists, Scientific Theory, denying the supernatural, sciencism, and the suggestion that DNA fell together from nothing.

kindest regards,
G.
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#18
This may help....

I don't know.
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"They watch from behind complacent smiles whilst polishing their cutlery. Yet, with egg between the prongs"
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#19
42

... tinycool
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#20
Gordi = PS - I don't think that anyone has ever said that "DNA just fell together from nothing". (By all accounts it took many millions of years?)

By all accounts after many millions of years "DNA just fell together from nothing" < is what is claimed
------------------------------------------------


Ninurta = Sorry to be the one to tell you, but fighting Atheists is no more likely to succeed than fighting any other religion, which Atheism is just another one of

which Atheism is just another one of < Indeed I agree
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